Players are already lowering their bar for Downtrail

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

What ever happened to the old hype train, Oh lawd it's comin'! memes pre-expansion?! We got a lazy river float going on now.

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do we know of anything specific that is coming besides taco's? thats the only real meme i have seen but at the same time unlike every other expansion where we had a bunch of lore and knowledge of stuff we were getting, new world is just that new and we have no idea who or what will be the last trial or why it will happen.

so to say be hyped about something i have no idea what is entailed compared to the last expansions where ishgard has been hyped for many years then ala mhigo, then we had a whole new world we were going to which we could ride hype on and at the very end we had this expansion which was the conclusion of the whole arc i feel memeing is much easier due to all of it.

now maybe after 6.5 and 6.55 and the completion of the story and the start of going to the new world something will give us a hint and things and we can truely get hyped.

Maybe since they recognize a quality story can't be front and center carrying the whole show like ShB and (mostly) EW, they will put in the extra effort in other gameplay areas like job and encounter design to make sure the game has other strengths to fall back on

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Originally Posted by Post

Maybe since they recognize a quality story can't be front and center carrying the whole show like ShB and (mostly) EW, they will put in the extra effort in other gameplay areas like job and encounter design to make sure the game has other strengths to fall back on

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I hope so. Let's see what the expac will bring to the table content-wise. I hope they release trailers with new mechanics, instances and so on. Maybe that will actually get me hyped.

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Originally Posted by Post

Maybe since they recognize a quality story can't be front and center carrying the whole show like ShB and (mostly) EW, they will put in the extra effort in other gameplay areas like job and encounter design to make sure the game has other strengths to fall back on

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Once again reinforcing Stormblood was peak FFXIV

Anyways, yeah. I hope so, I'm setting my expectations very low considering...I want to be pleasantly surprised if they do actually knock it out of the park.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

The idea that 7.0 can't impress people because it's going up against the previous story is crazy. All of the expansions are unique and have their own flavor despite being tied together.

Anyone with eyes can see in the latest trailer there's just nothing going on in it that is interesting outside guessing the latest job. This hasn't been the case with past trailers and is unique to DawnTrail. It totally relies on you being hyped by just seeing characters.

I hate sounding critical on every post, but a lot of the positivity on the forum seems counter productive

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MMORPGs can't keep raising the bar and stakes higher and higher each expansion. It pushes things to an absurdly unrealistic level (which SE already pushed by making a friendly bird-girl into a universe destroying villain).

A reset is needed. We are now at the reset point.

If having your character go on a vacation isn't appealing to you, then maybe it's time to go on a break until things are getting ready to peak on the doomsday scale again. Personally, I'm looking forward to my character being able to relax and engage in some fun (with a big pinch of mischief hopefully included).

Positivity is there because there are many players looking forward to the next expansion. They're not interested in being drawn into the web of doom and gloom that some posters around here are trying to weave.

If certain posters around here (this is not directed at you in any way) would stick to discussing their concerns about the game's content instead of pushing the negative narrative about what the game's player base is or isn't doing/feeling, maybe discussion would be more productive.

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Originally Posted by Noumenon

The positivity on the forums are fake. Most of it is written by people who don't play the game.

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You are basing that off of what data? Or are you just unhappy that the positive players aren't buying enough gil from you?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

MMORPGs can't keep raising the bar and stakes higher and higher each expansion. It pushes things to an absurdly unrealistic level (which SE already pushed by making a friendly bird-girl into a universe destroying villain).

A reset is needed. We are now at the reset point.

If having your character go on a vacation isn't appealing to you, then maybe it's time to go on a break until things are getting ready to peak on the doomsday scale again. Personally, I'm looking forward to my character being able to relax and engage in some fun (with a big pinch of mischief hopefully included).

Positivity is there because there are many players looking forward to the next expansion. They're not interested in being drawn into the web of doom and gloom that some posters around here are trying to weave.

If certain posters around here (this is not directed at you in any way) would stick to discussing their concerns about the game's content instead of pushing the negative narrative about what the game's player base is or isn't doing/feeling, maybe discussion would be more productive.


You are basing that off of what data? Or are you just unhappy that the positive players aren't buying enough gil from you?

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I agree that doom is gloom is not productive. I disagree that vacation stories can't be interesting. The trailer is clear evidence that story is being withheld or simply doesn't contain any interesting ideas. It isn't like we have never seen the cast having fun before. And beast tribes have been done exhaustively. As a consumer I don't see what else 7.0 story is bringing. There have been some details from the live events but they aren't all that compelling either. Scions fighting over a contest? Sounds ok but not that compelling.

Does it concern anyone else that probably about half the threads on the first page are created by 1-2 people.....? And usually some content creator is worked in.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

Does it concern anyone else that probably about half the threads on the first page are created by 1-2 people.....? And usually some content creator is worked in.

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personally no but i am only here for the entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Noumenon

The positivity on the forums are fake. Most of it is written by people who don't play the game.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You are basing that off of what data? Or are you just unhappy that the positive players aren't buying enough gil from you?

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It's projection. They don't play the game and have nothing but negative things to say, and they can't accept that not all of us are like them.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If having your character go on a vacation isn't appealing to you, then maybe it's time to go on a break until things are getting ready to peak on the doomsday scale again.

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Watching my character lie next to a swimming pool is gonna be lit! Why is no one hyped for Yawntrail?

Yeah, what? Why did they design it, focus on the vacation aspect in the trailer and advertisement and then explicitly decide not to allow players to swim there? At least Old Sharlayan is a cold ass boat harbor.

Was talking on Discord today with people who live by the "illusion of choice" argument. We shouldn't have any options, they say, because everyone will just look up guides and copy the meta. Even when I suggested putting in layers of RNG systems to make the world less static, they just said some kind of adaptive 3rd party tool based on an algorithm could work out solutions for us in real time so we still don't have to think for ourselves. Damn I'm tired of justifications for this modern on-rails pseudo-RPG design. Bah! I want to have some kind of input, some choices other than glamor.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Was talking on Discord today with people who live by the "illusion of choice" argument. We shouldn't have any options, they say, because everyone will just look up guides and copy the meta. Even when I suggested putting in layers of RNG systems to make the world less static, they just said some kind of adaptive 3rd party tool based on an algorithm could work out solutions for us in real time so we still don't have to think for ourselves. Damn I'm tired of justifications for this modern on-rails pseudo-RPG design. Bah! I want to have some kind of input, some choices other than glamor.

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But choice is an illusion and youve taken the red pill.

There is no going back to the machine that you came from my friend

Because Chess is only played optimally with a computer assisting you as a player there is no joy to be had playing Chess among fellow humans.

My expectations for Dawntrail are so low Satan could use them to play limbo in the boiler room of Hell.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I agree that doom is gloom is not productive. I disagree that vacation stories can't be interesting. The trailer is clear evidence that story is being withheld or simply doesn't contain any interesting ideas. It isn't like we have never seen the cast having fun before. And beast tribes have been done exhaustively. As a consumer I don't see what else 7.0 story is bringing. There have been some details from the live events but they aren't all that compelling either. Scions fighting over a contest? Sounds ok but not that compelling.

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Except we haven't seen the trailer yet. The trailer doesn't get released until the JP FanFest. For now, all we're getting is teasers with snippets of the trailer.

Now is not the time to judge. Wait until after the JP FanFest when we'll have most of the information they're willing to reveal before launch. For those who are heavily focused on the battle systems, the media tour that will take place about 6-8 weeks before launch will have info on job and battle design, a dungeon and maybe a tiny peek at other content.

So if you're not impressed yet, that's a good thing. You're not supposed to be. The real hype won't get going until the JP FanFest.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Was talking on Discord today with people who live by the "illusion of choice" argument. We shouldn't have any options, they say, because everyone will just look up guides and copy the meta. Even when I suggested putting in layers of RNG systems to make the world less static, they just said some kind of adaptive 3rd party tool based on an algorithm could work out solutions for us in real time so we still don't have to think for ourselves. Damn I'm tired of justifications for this modern on-rails pseudo-RPG design. Bah! I want to have some kind of input, some choices other than glamor.

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Only those who actively seek advantage complain about "illusion of choice", look up guides and seek the meta. Those looking for a casual relaxed time don't, or at most limit themselves to basic "how to" guides.

No one wants layers of RNG systems. If that's what would satisfy players, WoW would still have over 12 million active subscribers. Instead the developers started taking away choice and pushing everything into RNG systems. They steadily bled their player base dry before they would finally admit that just maybe players did like the old talent trees and did enjoy having deterministic gearing in addition to RNG gearing.

I agree, it would be nice to have more input than what we currently have. It's never going to happen while players are obsessed with what's the best and whether jobs are balanced so a personal favorite doesn't get ignored in Party Finder because it's not part of the meta. It's not going to happen while developers treat their games more as competitive games than as role-playing games.

Part of BG3's success is because players are getting back choice that has been long since drained out of multi-player games. If they want to see it return to other games, they need to accept that choice comes with drawbacks.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Except we haven't seen the trailer yet. The trailer doesn't get released until the JP FanFest. For now, all we're getting is teasers with snippets of the trailer.

Now is not the time to judge. Wait until after the JP FanFest when we'll have most of the information they're willing to reveal before launch. For those who are heavily focused on the battle systems, the media tour that will take place about 6-8 weeks before launch will have info on job and battle design, a dungeon and maybe a tiny peek at other content.

So if you're not impressed yet, that's a good thing. You're not supposed to be. The real hype won't get going until the JP FanFest.

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Thinking this expansion will be anything more then Shadowbringers Part 3 is pure cope.

I do not agree with the idea that we can't judge teasers. Why make them then? The teaser is boring...

Also I went back and checked all other teasers. They aren't boring.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I do not agree with the idea that we can't judge teasers. Why make them then? The teaser is boring...

Also I went back and checked all other teasers. They aren't boring.

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It might be boring because the stakes arent there. Last teaser you're walking on the moon, your friends are getting their ass beat and theres danger everywhere. This teaser was just 'theres going to be treasure! wow maps! wow exploration!' its a different vibe and a different tempo. I literally expect this expat to just be the 'beach episiode'.

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Originally Posted by AetherHale

It might be boring because the stakes arent there. Last teaser you're walking on the moon, your friends are getting their ass beat and theres danger everywhere. This teaser was just 'theres going to be treasure! wow maps! wow exploration!' its a different vibe and a different tempo. I literally expect this expat to just be the 'beach episiode'.

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OK. If the new expansion is going to be about exploration and treasure, why not hint at kind of new mechanic involving those things?? Why is it that Scions are doing the same old-- eating things and asking NPCs if they've noticed something? It just screams same old same old. That's the problem. It's not innovative or fresh at all, even considering it's a beach episode.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

OK. If the new expansion is going to be about exploration and treasure, why not hint at kind of new mechanic involving those things?? Why is it that Scions are doing the same old-- eating things and asking NPCs if they've noticed something? It just screams same old same old. That's the problem. It's not innovative or fresh at all, even considering it's a beach episode.

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The fact that were finally going to explore the New World which is the biggest elephant in the Etheirys room because of how huge the continent is, is more than enough for me to be engaged with the idea.

Obviously its not to you, but Im excited for it. I love this game's world and I want to see it more explored

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The fact that were finally going to explore the New World which is the biggest elephant in the Etheirys room because of how huge the continent is, is more than enough for me to be engaged with the idea.

Obviously its not to you, but Im excited for it. I love this game's world and I want to see it more explored

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Is that because of content already in the game or because of the teaser? Isn't this yet another example of why the game isn't appealing to different types of players? What is the point of hosting huge events and making expensive teasers that don't clearly communicate anything that compelling?

My point being that I started the game sometime pre Endwalker -- so I didn't have the stakes of Endwalker at all. I had the older trailers, all of which clearly communicated interesting ideas and visuals. Maybe they weren't the most original concepts, but they had a XIV spin that felt inspired.

This teaser doesn't put a XIV spin on anything.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

This teaser doesn't put a XIV spin on anything.

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it's a trailer for ff14 about ff14 you literally can't get any closer than that.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Is that because of content already in the game or because of the teaser? Isn't this yet another example of why the game isn't appealing to different types of players? What is the point of hosting huge events and making expensive teasers that don't clearly communicate anything that compelling?

My point being that I started the game sometime pre Endwalker -- so I didn't have the stakes of Endwalker at all. I had the older trailers, all of which clearly communicated interesting ideas and visuals. Maybe they weren't the most original concepts, but they had a XIV spin that felt inspired.

This teaser doesn't put a XIV spin on anything.

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I think you're trying to justify your own apathetic opinion of the next expansion to facts; because:

1. How the hell are you believing the teaser lacks anything FFXIV related even though it showed the Scions, the Mamool Ja, a whole new world to explore and sense of upcoming adventure that reminisces the feeling of the ARR intro?

2. The visuals are the South American/Thailand (from what people have told me about Tulioyal) lands and culture showcased in the teaser. Again how the hell did you miss it unless you just didnt care for it. Which is fine. People have tastes, but dont pass it off as if the visuals shown in the teaser were inherently bad. Its literally because your tastes in the concepts of the next expansion is something you just dont give two shits about. Again, thats fine even if your reasons are super weak

And like I already said, I love the world of FFXIV and for the longest time we've known of unexplored distant lands and cultures within the game's lore and the idea that we're finally going out to sea and rediscover them is an enticing idea for an expansion. People been speculating before Dawntrail's announcement that 7.0 was going to be either a Meracydia or a New World expansion and I'm glad 7.0 is leaning on one of these things.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I love this game's world and I want to see it more explored

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I wanted to so a huge city, steampunk style for Garlemald. But just before we got there it was all destroyed. Let's see if i get my Grand-Canyon-Viewpoint style map in DT.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it's a trailer for ff14 about ff14 you literally can't get any closer than that.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Except we haven't seen the trailer yet. The trailer doesn't get released until the JP FanFest. For now, all we're getting is teasers with snippets of the trailer.

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Only one of these can be right :)

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Only one of these can be right :)

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while it is only part of the full trailer which we both know that person meant, it is the trailer.

but sure we can be snooty to try to make a fake point.

This thread has certainly shifted..,
and tbh, to much more worth while topics.

Using Cp2077(2.0/PL) as lingo.

ARR, HW, SB all had the feeling of exploring an existing world(while occasionally running into hidden/forget sections of it, where even it's residents don't know exist)
[As if you'd Explore Night City by only driving the streets and occasionally entering an alley or building.]

ShB was like Going to the Badlands or Dogtown. Completely different to the world you know, but the same core concepts exist and react, exploring a world that is In conjuction with what you expect, but different in that you are no one in a unknown landscape.

Whilst EW was literally exploring distant nations with the final sections being stuck in a fully interactive Braindance(some which never left in a trance, jk lol), or to the edge of existence(which is just another form of the unknown known) in Cyberspace.

DT is more akin to the Heard of Frontier, they have civilization, but the chance of large unknown areas holding secrets being much, much larger than that of the Existing worlds.(~Continually Dies Trying to exit the Border of NC~ Prior to 2.0/PL)

The Existing Lived World, The Unknown Known World, The Parallel World, and the Frontier World.

It may not be some people's Cup of Solution.
But finding something unexpected within your known world is much more rattling, than going to a completely alien one, where you know to expect anything.

Nothing wrong with many wanting to find literally new things, or being in a world where nothing but you is new.
But for the current future, expanding into the uncharted yet not alien lands is one that would serve as a good palate cleanser for a good number.

edit: But are they wrong Musa.
We only saw the landscape and colors, what can be assumed, is that many Think Expac Trailer when a clear image of what it entails is shown.

Hence the difference between Teaser and Full Trailer exists.
Just cause one can claim a false point, and lower it by calling snooty.

another can claim strawman and semantics about what is and isn't real VS the intended effect and purpose.

What if everyone is 'wrong'? I mean I keep seeing people saying, "well we're going to this area and exploring all of these zones etc" which is possible but if you look at EW, it wasn't set to just 'one continent.' Its entirely possible that we just get 3-4 zones on that area and then go somewhere entirely different either by the end etc (which looks likely given how the story has ultimately been going, gotta ultimately get catgirl to her bf on the first by the end of this).

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

while it is only part of the full trailer which we both know that person meant, it is the trailer.

but sure we can be snooty to try to make a fake point.

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Well you made a snooty fake point first by implying that everything with the scions faces is FFXIV enough.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

Hence the difference between Teaser and Full Trailer exists.

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everything that is in the teaser will be in the full release of the trailer. it's just literally a small part of the trailer.

so yes it is snooty to add nothing to discussion but try to stir up more discorse.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Well you made a snooty fake point first by implying that everything with the scions faces is FFXIV enough.

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sure keep trying to stir up fake discorse.

Some Assume She may end up still traveling with us regardless.
I've seen some Lore Enthusiasts imagine that at the end of the 6.X Series. Shard travel will exist.
[Which, seeing the latest LL, kinda does point to it.]

In the end, true that no matter what is shown, we never know the true end.

They Teased the Golden Cities, but in the Keynote in NA/LV, they also showed a art of a purple "flooded" land or storm.
Which could either be an event in the story or a full zone.

Can only wait to EU gives us more to chew on.

edit:
So if we get that right. It's all there is, cause it exist in the final?

So we know what exist and happens, cause we know it'll be there at the end, so we have seen everything.

is that kinda the deal your giving Musa.

(Kinda Conclusive/Absolute Musa, many might even say snooty. jk)

I guess everyone but you just makes "fake discourse". Wow. These forums never cease to amaze me.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I think you're trying to justify your own apathetic opinion of the next expansion to facts; because:

1. How the hell are you believing the teaser lacks anything FFXIV related even though it showed the Scions, the Mamool Ja, a whole new world to explore and sense of upcoming adventure that reminisces the feeling of the ARR intro?

2. The visuals are the South American/Thailand (from what people have told me about Tulioyal) lands and culture showcased in the teaser. Again how the hell did you miss it unless you just didnt care for it. Which is fine. People have tastes, but dont pass it off as if the visuals shown in the teaser were inherently bad. Its literally because your tastes in the concepts of the next expansion is something you just dont give two shits about. Again, thats fine even if your reasons are super weak

And like I already said, I love the world of FFXIV and for the longest time we've known of unexplored distant lands and cultures within the game's lore and the idea that we're finally going out to sea and rediscover them is an enticing idea for an expansion. People been speculating before Dawntrail's announcement that 7.0 was going to be either a Meracydia or a New World expansion and I'm glad 7.0 is leaning on one of these things.

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I knew you were going to jump on the environments and try to be patronizing as though I don't enjoy different cultures. Users on this forum always jump to the lowest and most personal ground trying to defend their crap teasers.

Look, it's not rocket science. Other teasers showed off interesting enemy design at the very least (Shadowbringers stands out here) or just a compelling concept (the war with Dragons). There is NO compelling concept to DawnTrail because MAPS do not carry an expansion regardless of their origin. Maps mean less than nothing if the story happening in them is vapid and boring.

Also for someone so defensive of the game you would think you'd know we have seen the Scions having a good time. To quote Endwalker "Moments of levity to counterbalance the pathos." That was the whole effing point of the entire arc. All DawnTrail is doing is putting slice of life at the forefront-- and no that isn't my taste because we already had that happening. Furthermore none of it is as surprising or anticipating as you're painting it because they patronizingly told us all the future content via Emet because the devs not only think you're too stupid to play a job but also don't trust you to stick around for future content without writing a plea directly into a scene.

Of course you're happy about it because clearly the target audience of this game in 2023 loves the predictability and thinks it's great, even though XIV so far has literally been praised for the complete opposite and not playing it safe narratively. Don't forget your clown mask for the roulette tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

I guess everyone but you just makes "fake discourse". Wow. These forums never cease to amaze me.

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I thought the same thing when someone aimlessly defended a "roulette" that prioritizes putting you in the same duty over and over. Or when people inexplicably freaked out at the mere notion of a scion dying. Or when someone thought it was strange to die in a 5v1 scenario in CC. Or when someone tried defending FFIX.

Oh, and the "Final Fantasy is popular on Xbox" guy.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

I thought the same thing when someone aimlessly defended a "roulette" that prioritizes putting you in the same duty over and over. Or when people inexplicably freaked out at the mere notion of a scion dying. Or when someone thought it was strange to die in a 5v1 scenario in CC. Or when someone tried defending FFIX.

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Tried to poke me? The roulette one boiled down to me understanding that random chance without equal distribution exists and you claiming it wouldn't be a "roulette"(TM) then. I don't want to repeat myself. If you don't get it by now this is your fault.

Rest seems to jab at other people.

Honestly i'm okay with just sun-bathing on a beach in South-Ameri.. (South-Eorzea) and hopefully not enslave the native population without realizing i'm a monster. D:<

That's it i'm just going to fish, at least i'll only be the monster to fish.

Meanwhile:

https://i.imgur.com/d1JTDqA.png

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

(South-Eorzea)

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Isn't DT's continent called "Tural"?

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

I think the initial dawntrail story will be a casual story where it takes it easy while also building up to stuff over time with it's post patches and be the start of new plot threads.

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you know, shb was a build-up story that within its base game still managed to be an emotionally charged and powerful story connecting some of the few loose threads from HW and also opening up a brandnew story on the ascians. we shouldnt assume dawntrail cant still be good or pull that off.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Isn't DT's continent called "Tural"?

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Sorry, the place just reminds me of a exotic country like south america. xD Which is nice because i'm ready for this vacation we are getting- we've had like 10 Flipping years (more for some) dealing with Ascian and Garlean empire story, and i'm just done and ready for whatever this new storyline is.

I swear though, if i see a Ascian hiding behind a tree somewhere in the new world (yes, 'The New World' - joking) I'm going to be filled with .....

....
https://i.imgur.com/7dTdjYN.png

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

you know, shb was a build-up story that within its base game still managed to be an emotionally charged and powerful story connecting some of the few loose threads from HW and also opening up a brandnew story on the ascians. we shouldnt assume dawntrail cant still be good or pull that off.

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I never implied dawntrails story will be bad I think it could be a good story but since it's the start of a new arc people shouldn't expect the stakes to be high with major threats.