I don't want to see any of the other Scions in 7.0.

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Right back at you. You like to act like you're the voice of the people here\

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Unlike a few people, I dont claim to speak for anyone but myself

Viz: this by comparison:

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Everyone but you.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I felt like it was pretty explicit at least in English. After Alphinaud says "We are disbanding the Scions of the Seventh Dawn", Tataru comes in and they speak briefly. Then when his internal monologue continues he thinks "At least...that is what the story will be." Not sure if people tuned out after Tataru appeared or what but they're definitely not disbanding. They're telling everyone they did.

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It's not that people missed it. A lot of people have been weary of the Scions for quite some time, so the moment that it was presented as a possibility that the organisation would be disbanded and the Scions would go their separate ways it caused a sense of relief. It doesn't matter that in the next few sentences it resulted in a 'just kidding' moment - because that doesn't change how a lot of people are still very tired of the characters in question.

All of this has been explained many times across multiple threads already, though. Only for the same posters to come back time and time again with the bad faith insinuation that they weren't paying attention or that the game isn't Game of Thrones (as if that's the only setting in existence to ever kill off a major character).

Most settings these days are so terribly boring and predictable because 'superfans' latch on to specific characters, demand that they be cast in perpetual plot armour and never meaningfully change. Worse yet, these are the same people who will not even tolerate a single bone being thrown to people with different tastes to their own - as seen with the complete meltdowns from some over a character so much as looking at their Warrior of Light the wrong way. Then they wonder why some of us are bored of the Scions...

Ten years. That is how long they had to make something of these characters and to be fair, it seemed that they were going somewhere back in Shadowbringers only for Endwalker to bring utter and complete stagnation on all fronts. With each passing day it seems that Shadowbringers really was nothing more than a lucky accident, as evidenced by everything else that transpired in the base 6.0 MSQ.

You cannot hope to carry FFXIV for 10 more years with this cast if it remains as is - ungrowing, unchanging, and at best learning the same bluntly forced lessons over and over again while any former grit and seriousness is stripped away so that the junior writers feel confident enough in making jokes every so often.

Everything really did go off the rails once Maehiro moved on to FFXVI. At least he was aware that at some point a character has served their purpose and can be retired and looked back upon fondly like Ysayle. Instead the current powers at be are eager to shove sparkly eyed burger eating G'raha Tia in our faces and (original oc please do not steal) Zero wondering what a friend is as if we really needed a subplot pulled straight out of a care bears movie in the MSQ.

At least those of us who have the mental fortitude to accept writing aimed at more adult gamers can find some solace in FFXVI - from the now famous moment mid-fight where Benedikta kicks Torgal across the roof of the castle they're fighting on to the following scene that I will be putting in spoiler tags, as it could be considered heavy spoilers for the game. Tension. Drama. Loss. Things we used to have in this game but all of it sacrificed on the altar dedicated to goofy slice of life antics and Loporrits.

https://i.imgur.com/0F5dh4p.jpg

I hope those who agree with this thread end up just skipping the story out of spite when the Scions return in 7.0 so we can not see anymore troll hate threads when the new expansion hits.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Ten years. That is how long they had to make something of these characters and to be fair, it seemed that they were going somewhere back in Shadowbringers only for Endwalker to bring utter and complete stagnation on all fronts. With each passing day it seems that Shadowbringers really was nothing more than a lucky accident, as evidenced by everything else that transpired in the base 6.0 MSQ.

You cannot hope to carry FFXIV for 10 more years with this cast if it remains as is - ungrowing, unchanging, and at best learning the same bluntly forced lessons over and over again while any former grit and seriousness is stripped away so that the junior writers feel confident enough in making jokes every so often.

Everything really did go off the rails once Maehiro moved on to FFXVI. At least he was aware that at some point a character has served their purpose and can be retired and looked back upon fondly like Ysayle. Instead the current powers at be are eager to shove sparkly eyed burger eating G'raha Tia in our faces and (original oc please do not steal) Zero wondering what a friend is as if we really needed a subplot pulled straight out of a care bears movie in the MSQ.

At least those of us who have the mental fortitude to accept writing aimed at more adult gamers can find some solace in FFXVI - from the now famous moment mid-fight where Benedikta kicks Torgal across the roof of the castle they're fighting on to the following scene that I will be putting in spoiler tags, as it could be considered heavy spoilers for the game. Tension. Drama. Loss. Things we used to have in this game but all of it sacrificed on the altar dedicated to goofy slice of life antics and Loporrits.

https://i.imgur.com/0F5dh4p.jpg

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I'm going to quote this as an example when people say "omg, people are just saying their opinion on the story without being negative towards those that do enjoy it. Leave them alone!".

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those of us with the mental fortitude

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aimed at more adult gamers

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care bears movie

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If you can't make your point without mocking/insulting others, then expect the same in return. You're a broken record. You're right, it's been TEN years. And you're still here.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

You're a broken record. You're right, it's been TEN years. And you're still here.

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Ash from Pokemon has been the main protagonist for 25 years and people still want him back lol, so I have no idea what this "ten years" nonsense is all about.

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Originally Posted by Kazemon15

Ash from Pokemon has been the main protagonist for 25 years and people still want him back lol, so I have no idea what this "ten years" nonsense is all about.

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It's code for "I don't like the characters". If it was an edgy white guy like Clive that dated females that were at least 8s, he'd be fine with it.

Would like to see them age some more... grown up Allisaie? well the characters in general...

IT seem like a stand still and years has happened since it was 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Would like to see them age some more... grown up Allisaie? well the characters in general...

IT seem like a stand still and years has happened since it was 1.0.

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Technically in game time all the things that happened between 1.0 and up until now have only been 1.5 years or less

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Originally Posted by Derio

Technically in game time all the things that happened between 1.0 and up until now have only been 1.5 years or less

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That's a lie. Between 1.x and 2.0 was 5 years alone.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Technically in game time all the things that happened between 1.0 and up until now have only been 1.5 years or less

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Only because the story-writers have an aversion to moving the clock forward and want everything to sit in this nice, neat little bubble.
"Everything has happened 5 years after the Umbral Calamity," better keep adding months to the year then because your timeline looks like hot ass.

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Originally Posted by Kazemon15

Ah yes because the most profitable franchise in the entire world is clearly doing something wrong... gotcha.

Money talks. It doesn't matter how good or bad you think the series is. If it's profitable, it's a success and they will continue to stay on that path as long as the profits are there. Clearly they are doing something right if their franchise is Number 1 the world over. Don't like the direction? Vote with your wallet.

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And Profitability and Popularity aren't indicators of Quality.

Pokemon fans tried to vote with their wallet, the paste eating consumers made it so Gamefreak doesn't have to put in effort when making their slop.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...83/113/7dc.gif

The concept of a property being too big to fail exists, and god damn pokemon has hit it.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

And Profitability and Popularity aren't indicators of Quality.

Pokemon fans tried to vote with their wallet, the paste eating consumers made it so Gamefreak doesn't have to put in effort when making their slop.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...83/113/7dc.gif

The concept of a property being too big to fail exists, and god damn pokemon has hit it.

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Its popular, though. Which means a lot of people either don't consider it a fail or don't consider it enough of a fail to warrant not buying it; enough to make it worth continuing. You just don't share their taste.

Too big to fail means something is being propped up. Nothing is propping the sales of a product up except people buying it. Unless Gamefreak received some outside intervention I'm not aware of?

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Its popular, though. Which means a lot of people either don't consider it a fail or don't consider it enough of a fail to warrant not buying it; enough to make it worth continuing. You just don't share their taste.

Too big to fail means something is being propped up. Nothing is propping the sales of a product up except people buying it. Unless Gamefreak received some outside intervention I'm not aware of?

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This. I would argue be happy FFXIV doesn't just make expansions riddled with bugs like these because they actually care about their product, but as we see from complaints, most people don't care that they "care" or claim they don't "care". If they truly didn't care, we'd be getting expansions with Scarlet and Violet quality.

I hope they never do this. I love all Scions and there are a lot of ways how we can progress through the new story together.

I know precious little of Pokemon save the hilarious videos that were posted everywhere when the latest instalment came out. They remind me of the various technical issues we've had this expansion ranging from the winning number is 0 to the latest ultimate being a bug-ridden mess.

FFXIV seems intent on following that example, I fear. Those who tried to hold the standard have been drowned out by those who are eager to let them slip because they aren't able to see things as they are. So be it then. Those of us who favor good mmos will move on to Ashes of Creation and those of us who enjoy single player titles will have among the likes of FFXVI and Dragon Age Dreadwolf to entertain ourselves.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

"We"?

Who is "we"?

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Those of us who are sick of the Scions. Apologies - I'll edit my post to be clearer when I'm on my PC (why can't I edit on mobile SE?).

The fact not a single one of them died in Ultima Thule still boggles the mind. I know people simp Y'sthola and G'raha for some reason that is utterly incomprehensible to me, and Estinien is mostly regarded as a fresher face, but the rest of them don't even have a reason to exist anymore. They aren't marketable in the least; Alphinaud and Alisaie just annoy most people, and Thancred only saw a brief resurgence because of "my turn" and "this is Thancred."

As if a lot of people weren't already sick of them.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Alphinaud and Alisaie just annoy most people

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Do you have any source on that? I was under the impression that the twins were pretty well liked.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The fact not a single one of them died in Ultima Thule still boggles the mind. I know people simp Y'sthola and G'raha for some reason that is utterly incomprehensible to me, and Estinien is mostly regarded as a fresher face, but the rest of them don't even have a reason to exist anymore. They aren't marketable in the least; Alphinaud and Alisaie just annoy most people, and Thancred only saw a brief resurgence because of "my turn" and "this is Thancred."

As if a lot of people weren't already sick of them.

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If my first exposure to FFXIV was the CGI ad of the twins from Endwalker I would instantly write off the game as not for me. Alphinaud is nothing more than a blunt tool with which to force in messaging whenever necessary and Alisae is just a headache now. I've articulated my feelings on the others many times in the past.

All have outstayed their welcome. Keeping them around and adding Krile to the mix would only go to show just how disconnected and insular the people in charge of this are from feedback from anyone that isn't a scion supporter.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If my first exposure to FFXIV was the CGI ad of the twins from Endwalker I would instantly write off the game as not for me. Alphinaud is nothing more than a blunt tool with which to force in messaging whenever necessary and Alisae is just a headache now. I've articulated my feelings on the others many times in the past.

All have outstayed their welcome. Keeping them around and adding Krile to the mix would only go to show just how disconnected and insular the people in charge of this are from feedback from anyone that isn't a scion supporter.

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yeah because clearly you and the others are always in the right and somehow are the majority of the playerbase. How desperate.

I'm getting real sick and tired of this egotistical attitude of yours and I wish there was something that can be done to give you some bit of humility.

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Those of us who favor good mmos will move on to Ashes of Creation

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https://media.tenor.com/7J1xRC8zPYIAAAAC/laughing.gif

That VAPORWARE? Their last Alpha was in 2021 Supposedly their release date is 2023..but as they havent even made it to even the most basic of beta testing....I find that target date highly dubious..this is May 2023...if they havent even gotten past alpha 2 testing, even on an optimistic timeline, its going to be more like 2025..or later.

How the hell can you move on to a game that hasnt even gotten past BETA yet? Not to mention the fact that AoC will be a full loot open pvp gankfest that wont last SIX MONTHS??

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The open world PvP flagging system is designed to deter people from griefing other players.

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*collapses laughing*

New World tried that..and GOD did they reverse course FAST.

You DO know that full loot open pvp games have a drastically shortened lifespan..dont you??? Look, Ill be kind here and just quietly advise you that the day that Ashes opens, you will see armed gank squads everywhere, killing anyone and anything..open world pvp is an broad invitation to continued griefing..which is why said games have a miniscule population at BEST.

You SERIOUSLY think people will PAY for months on end to be someone elses chew toy? God, you really know how to make me laugh...seriously Aveyond, you can do better than THAT......:D:D:D:D:D

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As if a lot of people weren't already sick of them.

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Other than this tiny echo chamber, no one is saying that. No one.

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Those of us who are sick of the Scions. Apologies - I'll edit my post to be clearer when I'm on my PC (why can't I edit on mobile SE?).

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That would be...yeah, just you and a few others here.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

That would be...yeah, just you and a few others here.

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All done! Sorry again for the confusion - definitely didn't mean to speak for the entire playerbase, and definitely didn't phrase it in a way that actually reflected that. :(

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

It's code for "I don't like the characters". If it was an edgy white guy like Clive that dated females that were at least 8s, he'd be fine with it.

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I really hate Clive's hair. Idk what it is with Square Enix and ugly male hair.

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All done! Sorry again for the confusion - definitely didn't mean to speak for the entire playerbase, and definitely didn't phrase it in a way that actually reflected that.

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S'fine, Chia. Thanks for the edits :)

Strangely, it's the girl in the picture that smacks my sensibilities and preferences into the ditch. It's not like Sephiroth's glorious silver locks. She looks more like my grandmother despite her obvious lack of wrinkles with that dull gray mane. Out of curiosity, what manner of male hair tickles your fancy?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

yeah because clearly you and the others are always in the right and somehow are the majority of the playerbase. How desperate.

I'm getting real sick and tired of this egotistical attitude of yours and I wish there was something that can be done to give you some bit of humility.

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A million times this.
Also, ashes of creation will be toxic as all hells, a perfect fit, can’t wait for them to move on but I know they will come back, some people only live comfortably in misery.

I actually kind of agree, I like the scions but EW should be more of a send off to them, I think they've had all the possible "character development" at this point, EW Really showed that.
I want a new cast, I want the game to feel more experimental and fresh in general then "safe", so the story reflecting that would be great

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's not that people missed it. A lot of people have been weary of the Scions for quite some time, so the moment that it was presented as a possibility that the organisation would be disbanded and the Scions would go their separate ways it caused a sense of relief. It doesn't matter that in the next few sentences it resulted in a 'just kidding' moment - because that doesn't change how a lot of people are still very tired of the characters in question.

All of this has been explained many times across multiple threads already, though. Only for the same posters to come back time and time again with the bad faith insinuation that they weren't paying attention or that the game isn't Game of Thrones (as if that's the only setting in existence to ever kill off a major character)

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The person that was quoted by the person I quoted said "We disbanded in 6.0 (Hooray)" so apparently people aren't paying attention.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Unlike a few people, I dont claim to speak for anyone but myself

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Other than this tiny echo chamber, no one is saying that. No one.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

That would be...yeah, just you and a few others here.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

...and you speak for every player on every datacentre worldwide?

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It's always amusing when someone manages to respond to themselves over the course of a thread, but a word of advice: when you're being that flamboyantly hypocritical, I wouldn't call further attention to it by doubling down on the incredibly unnecessary attitude problem.

As for the "who said the Scions were disbanding" topic, excluding the obvious bait-and-switch at the end of the expansion, I'm curious if anyone else distinctly recalls the dev team (possibly earlier on in Endwalker's development cycle) mentioning we would be parting ways/ bidding farewell to the Scions or at least a few beloved characters at the end of the story? I've tried digging up where I remember reading it, but there have been so many tweets and interviews it's impossible to find anything. The closest I found was the hysteria incited by Thancred's VA implying he'd be out of a job because he couldn't see where there'd be any room for him following the EP (although to be fair, I don't think it completely illogical to make such an inference even from that alone, especially coupled with the "end of the saga"/ "mega epic" rhetoric surrounding EW.)

Well Toyota discontinued the Scion brand a few years ago. So it's just a matter of the remaining vehicles needing to wear out or get wrecked...

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, excluding the obvious bait-and-switch at the end of the expansion,

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*sigh*

As has been stated in and out of game, the "disbanding" was more for show, i.e stepping back and making the city states learn to handle their own messes without the Scions intervention. It makes perfect sense, the major problem has been solved, the Scions cant have the city states running to them every time a problem crops up.

The Scions can make one physically ill? But how can this be? Not only are they fictional pixels, even were they not they are perfectly polite. If the Scions make you ill, I suspect you may be.... a villain! A vile villain of darkness! Back, knave! Return to whence thoust came, I say!

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

*sigh*

As has been stated in and out of game, the "disbanding" was more for show, i.e stepping back and making the city states learn to handle their own messes without the Scions intervention. It makes perfect sense, the major problem has been solved, the Scions cant have the city states running to them every time a problem crops up.

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It's not the official status of the organisation that's really the point here, but the Scions themselves. They had a long, drawn-out cutscene heavily pushing the narrative that Thancred et al. would be off pursuing their own paths following the MSQ and we would all be going our own separate ways for a while, and this impression was only further consolidated by the dev team making out 6.1 to be a "return to our roots" as a (presumably lone, or at least, unaffiliated) adventurer starting a new journey. The bait-and-switch comes with them then proceeding to immediately plunge us into an adventure with... the same cast who had just made a show of bidding farewell to one another for the foreseeable, which I think most people would have anticipated meaning a fairly decent space of time in-game and a couple of patches worth of breathing room IRL at least, especially after two entire expansions with them. For those hoping for the chance to see some fresh faces, it felt misleading at best and pretty blatant false advertising at worst.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

It's not the official status of the organisation that's really the point here, but the Scions themselves. They had a long, drawn-out cutscene heavily pushing the narrative that Thancred et al. would be off pursuing their own paths following the MSQ and we would all be going our own separate ways for a while, and this impression was only further consolidated by the dev team making out 6.1 to be a "return to our roots" as a (presumably lone, or at least, unaffiliated) adventurer starting a new journey. The bait-and-switch comes with them then proceeding to immediately plunge us into an adventure with... the same cast who had just made a show of bidding farewell to one another for the foreseeable, which I think most people would have anticipated meaning a fairly decent space of time in-game and a couple of patches worth of breathing room IRL at least, especially after two entire expansions with them. For those hoping for the chance to see some fresh faces, it felt misleading at best and pretty blatant false advertising at worst.

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And yet we didn't get the entire gang back together. You'd believe other wise with how some people talk on here. The only person in the post 6.0 patches that to me felt like they were hamfisted in was Urianger in 6.1. I mean heck we didn't even check in with the twins until now. Which again to some still wasn't a long enough time away. We've only had a quick check in with Thancred and haven't interacted with Urianger since he went to give his report on what one might find in a treasure vault to the loporrits. Same thing with G'Raha and Krile who at least in the MSQ we haven't spent much time with.

Would it have been better if the devs weren't so cagey when it comes to presenting some sense even if vague of time having passed? Maybe for some yes. A whole lot of others definitely not. We all know that unless the devs feel a side story really should be completed by X time in the MSQ that it will never assume you did things as they came out. Just that at some point in time the WoL most likely did go and do those things. Gah, I'd say more but the part of me that's wondering why it looks like Cloud attached a wolf's head door knocker to his shoulder guard would rather ponder that instead.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

And yet we didn't...

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...that's a bit of a strange technicality. Does it need to be the entire cast for it to feel wearisome? Some might argue having half the group re-introduced the moment we resumed the story to be bad enough as it is, even if you were of the mind to find a single/ newer character like Estinien to be acceptable.

In-game timing is indeed a bit of an iffy topic, so let's say a story or so without their direct involvement would have been a decent yardstick for a "break" to give a sense of some time passing. Personally, I was hoping more for an expansion or so with them firmly in background/ consultant roles, but evidently Endwalker heralded more of a permanent change in the direction of the game's writing than I thought or wanted to admit. Still, a single story arc or so I think was more than a fair assumption with what we were initially shown.

Keep in mind that this is a filler arc. Nothing about it has really felt main story, at least IMO. You could have introduced it as a trial series and I wouldn't have noticed the difference.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

...that's a bit of a strange technicality. Does it need to be the entire cast for it to feel wearisome? Some might argue having half the group re-introduced the moment we resumed the story to be bad enough as it is, even if you were of the mind to find a single/ newer character like Estinien to be acceptable.

In-game timing is indeed a bit of an iffy topic, so let's say a story or so without their direct involvement would have been a decent yardstick for a "break" to give a sense of some time passing. Personally, I was hoping more for an expansion or so with them firmly in background/ consultant roles, but evidently Endwalker heralded more of a permanent change in the direction of the game's writing than I thought or wanted to admit. Still, a single story arc or so I think was more than a fair assumption with what we were initially shown.

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Again with how some posters are you'd think that we actually did bring along the whole team. Yes, I know from some it's just hyperbole crap we're just supposed to roll our eyes at. Yet even when it gets pointed out to them why exploring said treasure vault with who we did makes sense they stomp their feet and complain that took everyone. Or that they don't care more than don't understand why we took who we did. They are in the background though. We haven't brought in anyone between 6.1 and now that didn't need to be brought in for whatever we were doing at the time.

G'Raha asked us to bring him on the next adventure we stumbled on. Y'shtola told us that she wanted to try and find away to shard hop. So why would we not bring her on an expedition that hints at that very thing? Why would we not check in on the twins and see if they or even Jullus would have an idea on how to narrow our search for possible easy to have void things pop in from? Again I do feel the only reason we got Urianger tossed in there was solely for duty support reasons. It's not like we didn't bring in new people. The group right now is half old group half new group. We even got told right after 6.0 that 6.1-6.4 wasn't going to be the same as they had been in the past. That this was going to behave and be written differently. That whatever it is we will be exploring with Thancred and Krile come 7.0 wouldn't be really hinted at til 6.5.

The reason why it feels like filler is because that's what it was always meant to be. This is the beach party episode. The our heros tried to have a fun day at an amusement park, but they ended up having to play hero regardless type episode. Or if you don't like anime it's the X-Men playing no powers allowed baseball or Basketball. Only for some one to cheat and kineticaly charge up the ball before throwing it at someone and wondering why Professor X is upset that part of the mansion just got destroyed. Or that the Shi'ar showed up and have started attacking cause they're pissed off about something again.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Keep in mind that this is a filler arc. Nothing about it has really felt main story, at least IMO. You could have introduced it as a trial series and I wouldn't have noticed the difference.

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I hope this isn't true but I kinda got the same vibe with how neatly everything's wrapping up (Golbez's homies show up and fall like domino pieces) and the "straight to VHS disney sequel" vibes I got from the scions getting back together right after 6.0 disbanded them. I want to be wrong though, because I'll be kind of nettled if they made us deal with Zero's repetitive bullshit just to write her off as a filler character who never gets brought up again. I really hope this arc ties directly into 7.0 and they don't just wrap shit up in 6.5 and then start some totally unrelated thing in 7.0, otherwise post-EW really will feel like a complete slap in the face to everyone who didn't just quit after base endwalker. My last real hope is the fact that they announced Golbez as a trial super early which makes me think there's something more we're not being told, and that could be the boost this post-story needs.