A summary of healer issues

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

At some point you unfortunately just have to put your foot down and tell players to "get good" or your game will be in an endless spiral of making everything dumber than previously.

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Ghostcrawler tried that with WoW when it went from wrath to cata...best forum comment from a developer I ever saw

Yoship did roughly that with 2.0 Warrior as well.

Granted it didn't go too well ;)

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Yoship did roughly that with 2.0 Warrior as well.

Granted it didn't go too well ;)

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Would've probably worked better with a job that was actually functional.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

This is exactly a main part of the reason they can't make things more ngaging for high-end healers. The skill ceiling is so low and yet there are still so many people who can't reach it.

My co-healer in Euphrosyne last night died to every mechanic because they couldn't even heal themself. I was handling the rest of the party, but they couldn't heal themself. They would die and not use tetra or bene on themself when rezzed. The only "cure" they casted was Cure III. And that was only when they were missing health. And they would cast 3 medica 2s in a row. The only reason to cast medica 2 is for the regen. The regens don't stack. It's a pitiful heal otherwise.

I saw them assize once. Just medica 2 and cure 3. And no, I'm not kidding when I say they used cure 3 to heal only themself. The rest of the party was full every time.

And as taboo as it is to say, this is a result of the coddling ToS. Where you can report someone for "telling you how to play". You can't give unsolicited advice without the risk of someone getting mad. Until the lower end players get better, you're never going to get harder casual content. Or even harder high end content. Because when they do, they're going to have people screaming and crying that they can't do it, just like Coils in ARR.

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This is why I want some kind of reason to have all healing actions introduced in game. As I said before, I got way too far with Medica 2 and afflatus/cure 2 spam. I can't blame the game for that. I'm still not very good but I'd like to think I'm at least competent with how I try.

I had to make a consious choise to use the other actions, which was kind of hard and ridiculus after I leveled up some DPS and tank classes. With them it comes naturally to try new actions to do more damage. Healers have no reason when the old strategy still works fine and everyone is alive. Healers are bloated with healing and nothing to use it on in solo content. Dungeons don't really need lot of healing unless people have no idea what to do and/or refuse to learn. It's a bit sad in my opinion that even a casual like me can recognise that. I enjoy support roles but it's becoming harder and harder.

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

No idea how healing is...still trying to lvl up jobs and tanks ATM

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I recommend leveling a healer and spending a good portion of time in both leveling and max level content. Try out some Unreal and EX, or even Savage if you're up to it. Then come back to this thread and compare your experience to what most people are saying here.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

At some point you unfortunately just have to put your foot down and tell players to "get good" or your game will be in an endless spiral of making everything dumber than previously.

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Unfortunately that’s reportable. I had no issue before offering people advice. Now I just kick them in silence. Better than getting a ban for saying a wrong word

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

You mean the thread where you tried to call my factual and verifiable math 'anecdotal' despite having zero personal experience in said content or era?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5685240

I guess simply correcting you is extremely vitriolic now :rolleyes:

If you want a great example of how low the healer skill ceiling is right now. I just landed a 94 percentile damage in non BiS gear running Lapis with only GCD heals (Basically Regen and Lilies). It's just beyond a joke now.

People managed just fine when content, like Titan HM and early AK was the norm. Now the devs and player base are equally terrified of even the merest hint of failure even though there's barely any consequences for it.



Best comment of the thread tbh++

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This is pure salt considering how long ago that post was in the healer forum. The fact you not only remembered that, but you went back and dig it up. You are the vitriol of the healer forum. Get a life. For real

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

This is pure salt considering how long ago that post was in the healer forum. The fact you not only remembered that, but you went back and dig it up. You are the vitriol of the healer forum. Get a life. For real

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"visited the healer forum once"
>posts by name
>scroll back until there's one in the healer forum
>oh here's some context

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Originally Posted by fulminating

"visited the healer forum once"
>posts by name
>scroll back until there's one in the healer forum
>oh here's some context

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Considering you’d have to scroll through an active poster, that’s a fair bit to go. Especially to go back a year and a half. Even just going through a posters history is asinine behaviour just to pick a fight. The depths some people will go just to argue on these forums

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Unfortunately that’s reportable. I had no issue before offering people advice. Now I just kick them in silence. Better than getting a ban for saying a wrong word

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I am not talking about players putting their foot down and telling people to get good, but the developer. After all they're the ones that have to perpetually invest resources into redesigning the game for people who don't actually want to play a game and make the experience worse for everyone else.

For players the process is quite simple, if it is more effective for me to use my MP and GCDs on anything else than it is to constantly scrape you off the ground then you will be staying down there.

I can deal with a player that isn't even trying. I can not deal with a developer that changes the entire game for those players.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I am not talking about players putting their foot down and telling people to get good, but the developer. After all they're the ones that have to perpetually invest resources into redesigning the game for people who don't actually want to play a game.


For players the process is quite simple, if it is more effective for me to heal the party by myself than it is to constantly scrape you off the ground then you will be staying down there.

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I wish the developer would. Or anything really. The mediocrity is annoying at the best of times.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

You mean the thread where you tried to call my factual and verifiable math 'anecdotal' despite having zero personal experience in said content or era?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5685240

I guess simply correcting you is extremely vitriolic now :rolleyes:

If you want a great example of how low the healer skill ceiling is right now. I just landed a 94 percentile damage in non BiS gear running Lapis with only GCD heals (Basically Regen and Lilies). It's just beyond a joke now.

People managed just fine when content, like Titan HM and early AK was the norm. Now the devs and player base are equally terrified of even the merest hint of failure even though there's barely any consequences for it

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I suppose you are the only person I ever talked to in the healer forums and I suppose that's the only thread I had ever posted in. And no, you remembering me from almost 2 years ago, and searching for our previous conversations in an attempt to pull a gotcha isn't at all vitriolic. Not creepy or weird, either.

Regardless, I don't disagree with you that people managed in ARR. What I am saying is that as of right now, SE has dug themselves in such a deep hole where they enabled bad game play, and the community as a whole has enabled bad gameplay. People weaponize the ToS for telling someone medica 2 regens don't stack. Or that they should use more than just rampart at level 90.

Raising the skill ceiling is only going to make the problem worse. Where conent will become unclearable because of how bad people actually are. And you still won't be able to tell anybody to get better.

I'm not defending the way things are now. I'm saying they are the way they are because of all the enabling and coddling. When you get told "leave them alone. They're doing fine" because you see a max level healer struggling to keep only themself alive, that's a problem. Or when you get kicked from a duty for asking the DPS to "please dodge", that's a problem. When vote dismisses don't go through on a tank that has 8 vuln stacks at all times because "it's only their 4th time" in the max level duty you are running, that's a problem.

And until that changes, you will never get the harder content.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

This is pure salt considering how long ago that post was in the healer forum. The fact you not only remembered that, but you went back and dig it up. You are the vitriol of the healer forum. Get a life. For real

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Oh hey, fancy seeing you here too.

Are you still sore about being called out on your misinformation as well? ;)

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I suppose you are the only person I ever talked to in the healer forums and I suppose that's the only thread I had ever posted in. And no, you remembering me from almost 2 years ago, and searching for our previous conversations in an attempt to pull a gotcha isn't at all vitriolic. Not creepy or weird, either.

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I guess I have a habit of remembering when people push incorrect assumptions as fact. If you don't like that then /shrug, consider doing a little research before pressing that post button.

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Raising the skill ceiling is only going to make the problem worse. Where conent will become unclearable because of how bad people actually are. And you still won't be able to tell anybody to get better.

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Salt aside, I'm very much in agreement with the rest. People seem to play to the level that the content expects and sadly until you hit Extremes, FFXIV content expects basically nothing out of us. If we can find and click the queue roulette button, we can probably scrape through the content even if the reality is that the rest of the group are dragging us along for the ride. That by itself isn't entirely a detriment, but what is is the lack of any real incentive or even suggestion from the game to try and do better.

One suggestion I've consistently pushed to be considered is a simple ranking system at the end of each duty. SE can store the potency per second ratings for each job in a given duty as an overall average and then assign a basic A to F score to the player compared to that. It's zero maintenance and little work beyond it's initial addition as it'll just generate it's own scores using actual player data. It could potentially be tied into simple stuff like achievements or some other rewards, maybe bonus tomes for getting a higher rank for example. I think for more casual end game content like dungeons and 24 man, it'd be a neat addition and a big win for the health of the community if it manages to encourage even a modest number of people to try and up their game some.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

This is exactly a main part of the reason they can't make things more ngaging for high-end healers. The skill ceiling is so low and yet there are still so many people who can't reach it.

My co-healer in Euphrosyne last night died to every mechanic because they couldn't even heal themself. I was handling the rest of the party, but they couldn't heal themself. They would die and not use tetra or bene on themself when rezzed. The only "cure" they casted was Cure III. And that was only when they were missing health. And they would cast 3 medica 2s in a row. The only reason to cast medica 2 is for the regen. The regens don't stack. It's a pitiful heal otherwise.

I saw them assize once. Just medica 2 and cure 3. And no, I'm not kidding when I say they used cure 3 to heal only themself. The rest of the party was full every time.

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You explained an anecdote of someone who is failing to perform the game at a foundational level. No amount of more or less DPS buttons will do anything to resolve that, so why should healers be barred from ever improving their DPS gameplay because some fringe examples of players cannot comprehend how to dodge combat mechanics?

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Considering you’d have to scroll through an active poster, that’s a fair bit to go. Especially to go back a year and a half. Even just going through a posters history is asinine behaviour just to pick a fight. The depths some people will go just to argue on these forums

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Hmm, when something doesn't fit with what I usually see or experience I'd rather check whatever records I have on hand, seems pretty reasonable rather than relying on my rather faulty memory.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Oh hey, fancy seeing you here too.

Are you still sore about being called out on your misinformation as well? ;)

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See, someone says “I had a bad experience on healer forum”

In comes you “yeah that was me, get rekt scrub”

As if that does anything but show that after a year and a half, you still prefer to flex how much of a jerk you are. Not that it really has an impact on anyone. You still believe what you do, I’m sure they believe as they do. Just your regular twitter-esque drama, digging for statements from forever ago to try and puff your chest out.

/slow clap

Good for you. But only one of us is sore. That being someone digging through posts to find something from late 2021

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Hmm, when something doesn't fit with what I usually see or experience I'd rather check whatever records I have on hand, seems pretty reasonable rather than relying on my rather faulty memory.

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What didn’t fit exactly? That this individual had a bad experience on the healer forum and decided not to return? I’m sure we need to check the records for how a person felt. Not that there’s anything in that statement that needs to be fact checked. Nothing that needed to be rehashed into a sequel of old drama

Healing in this game is currently the worst healing of any MMO I have ever played. Though most of that comes down to the unbearably scripted fight design more then the healers themselves.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

What didn’t fit exactly? That this individual had a bad experience on the healer forum and decided not to return? I’m sure we need to check the records for how a person felt. Not that there’s anything in that statement that needs to be fact checked. Nothing that needed to be rehashed into a sequel of old drama

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To refresh your memory the post in question included "I visited the healer forums once. It was an echo chamber of salt. And when I dared speak my own opinion about how I liked healer as it is now, they got extremely vitriolic".

So what is unclear, that this person had a post with *one* person in whhich there was a disagreement, rather than "they = more than one person" , and that a disagreement does not equate to a personal attack or "extreme vitriol"?

Not to mention, if you are concerned about drama , maybe try to avoid using terms like "jerk" and " twitter-esque drama"?

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

See, someone says “I had a bad experience on healer forum”

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But they didn't.

They called it 'an extremely vitriolic echo chamber of salt'.

Do you always have this hard a time with simply stating the truth?

Besides, I'm not here to pick fights randomly, I'm providing corrections if I see them. As stated above, I actually agree with their sentiment as seen above. No issues from me there.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

This is exactly a main part of the reason they can't make things more ngaging for high-end healers.

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I'd argue the opposite. These people already aren't hitting their DPS buttons so whether it's 1 or 100 buttons is irrelevant to them. You already have healers that don't touch their DPS buttons in casual content as is and we can't really call them out on it without the ToS biting us in the ass for it, so whatever toxicity that could amount from the change already has a counter to it. You're not raising the skill floor for healers by giving them more to do during downtime. That only occurs if the healing demand is increased.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

To refresh your memory the post in question included "I visited the healer forums once. It was an echo chamber of salt. And when I dared speak my own opinion about how I liked healer as it is now, they got extremely vitriolic".

So what is unclear, that this person had a post with *one* person in whhich there was a disagreement, rather than "they = more than one person" , and that a disagreement does not equate to a personal attack or "extreme vitriol"?

Not to mention, if you are concerned about drama , maybe try to avoid using terms like "jerk" and " twitter-esque drama"?

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So they said they liked healer. Guess we are fact checking opinions now /thumbs up

Why post here? No one at SE reads these forums.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

So they said they liked healer. Guess we are fact checking opinions now /thumbs up

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Nice attempt to distract from what I quoted-ever hear of the red herring logical fallacy by the way? In any case I'm not interested in any one-upmanship, and by far most people in the healer forums are more invested in positive discussion on healer jobs because there is still a hope that some of it may reach the ears of people who can introduce some improvements ergo there is no mythical "echo chamber of salt" - which, mind you- does not say that there are no complaints.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Though most of that comes down to the unbearably scripted fight design more then the healers themselves.

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I think this is the crux of it. It's also why solo healing Ultimates is possible at all - because of how scripted the fights are. No matter how hard to learn they are, they play out the same way (or almost the same way with minor variations in cases of fights like SoS Extreme). To a point, games can't be infinitely variable, but when the fights are scripted and the design intent is people learn the mechanics to where they take almost no damage (since so much is avoidable and NOT avoiding something is pass-fail and often an outright KO), then it majorly cuts down on healing, making the kits and encounters somewhat disjointed.

Though that is only part of it - FFXIV fights have mostly always been this way, but it wasn't AS much of a problem in the past. The issue now is compounded by how much free healing Tanks and DPS have, as well as how many and how powerful oGCD healing Healers have. It makes the damage to health bars/refilling health bars part of healing trivial for the most part - if people AREN'T getting hit by avoidable mechanichs or collected vuln stacks, it's relatively easy to keep their health topped off - which, in turn, leads to a weird situation of you only have "excitement" healing when everything's going wrong, but when everything's going that wrong, you tend to wipe anyway. Conversely, once people have mastered the fight, there's little to do because the fights are designed to have very little unavoidable healing, relative to the Healer oGCD toolkits + Tank/DPS oGCD toolkits if we're just talking unavoidable damage.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

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You're kind of proving them right, you just don't realize it...

@Renathras, if anything, that "quote" is a stellar example of how to rebut someone in bad faith.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I should note, for the record, I disagree a good deal of the post quoted.

What I'm trying to see is what a more general audience thinks of it. The place it was posted is a bit of an echo chamber and I'm curious what people not part of that echo chamber feel related to it.

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The more general audience is too busy playing the game to take the time to read all that.

Healer is always going to be a hard role to design because what a healer will be doing is dependent on the skill level of the entire party (including the healer).

Are you a good (or better) healer in a good (or better) party? Expect to spend most of your time dealing damage because your party is not taking avoidable damage.

Are you a bad healer in a bad party? Expect to spend all your time healing and praying you don't run out of mana because they're taking so much damage and you have a hard time deciding where to prioritize your healing so you're probably just spamming your AoE heals.

Are you and your party somewhere in between? Hard to say what might happen.

Damage dealing in this game (at least for the other roles) is generally based on combo priorities. You build through a combo (or set of combos), unleash a finisher then start over. Fail to execute the combo correctly and your potency is significantly reduced.

YoshiP has said in the past that they don't want healers to be placed in the position of having to choose between keeping up a damage combo for the damage output or healing a party member. They want the core function of the role - healing - to be the priority at all times. Thus damage dealing in the healing role is simplified. We can interrupt damage to heal then immediately go back to damage without a loss of damage potency.

That means the good healers in the good parties are likely to end up bored because most of their time is spent using the simplified damage abilities. That's unavoidable in Normal content, which has to be designed with less skilled players in mind.

What about design for Savage and Ultimate? That's a question best left to those participating in Savage and Ultimate, not the general player base.

I can't raid at that level anymore myself but I would say to SE you don't need to make things easy on healers in Savage. Challenge their healing abilities instead of their ability to weave the occasional oGCD heal in between damage spam. If they were busy healing, they wouldn't be worried about having only 3-4 buttons for DPS.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

YoshiP has said in the past that they don't want healers to be placed in the position of having to choose between keeping up a damage combo for the damage output or healing a party member. They want the core function of the role - healing - to be the priority at all times. Thus damage dealing in the healing role is simplified. We can interrupt damage to heal then immediately go back to damage without a loss of damage potency.

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And yet we just as this expansion now have combo abilities that aren't broken by an ability. In Shb if you used your ranged attack as a tank c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker. Now? Yeah doesn't happen. Your argument no longer lines up YoshiP. What's your excuse now?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Though that is only part of it - FFXIV fights have mostly always been this way, but it wasn't AS much of a problem in the past.

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That's not entirely true. Don't forget that crits on tanks used to be a thing, as well as a lot more bosses having secondary non telegraphed tank busters that were on their own cooldown independent of anything else the boss was doing (Although in some cases would effectively queue to land alongside a cast ability).

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Are you a bad healer in a bad party? Expect to spend all your time healing and praying you don't run out of mana because they're taking so much damage and you have a hard time deciding where to prioritize your healing so you're probably just spamming your AoE heals.

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Honestly, this angle is overrated.

Healing people through their mistakes honestly doesn't make that big a difference in mainstream endgame content. And by the time it really does in Extremes and Savage, said mistakes are every bit as likely going to get them insta killed irrespective of how much healing you throw at them.

A truly bad healer is more likely to be dropping the ball and failing to cast anything rather than overhealing to the point of running out of MP, but either way you'll usually find mechanics getting them long before they run out of resources at this point in the expansion. You can verify this by looking at 24 man logs and looking at the MP resource trace of the underperforming healers. Even sifting through some absolute stinkers that I've endured, I'm struggling to find anyone that genuinely ran out of MP without themselves dieing despite the carnage going on around them.

Where it does start to really affect you as a healer is when you have to start hard casting raises. But until that point gets reached, eh, honestly makes less of a difference than many would expect.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Honestly, this angle is overrated.

Healing people through their mistakes honestly doesn't make that big a difference in mainstream endgame content. And by the time it really does in Extremes and Savage, said mistakes are every bit as likely going to get them insta killed irrespective of how much healing you throw at them.

A truly bad healer is more likely to be dropping the ball and failing to cast anything rather than overhealing to the point of running out of MP, but either way you'll usually find mechanics getting them long before they run out of resources at this point in the expansion. You can verify this by looking at 24 man logs and looking at the MP resource trace of the underperforming healers. Even sifting through some absolute stinkers that I've endured, I'm struggling to find anyone that genuinely ran out of MP without themselves dieing despite the carnage going on around them.

Where it does start to really affect you as a healer is when you have to start hard casting raises. But until that point gets reached, eh, honestly makes less of a difference than many would expect.

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I find that, when healing in harder content, examples of failing to heal is often more about misjudging the timing. Like seeing a cast bar, knowing your party needs a heal, and deciding to finish another cast you already started because you think your cast will end fast enough to weave another heal, or perhaps cast an Afflatus Rapture. Or things like that.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

If at any point, you are casting Cure 1 while you have Access to Cure 2, you are trolling.

This discussion has been had on the balance discord a thousand times, Cure 1, is absolutely worthless once you have Cure 2.

No need to argue about it, it is pure fact. People a lot smarter than the rest of us worked this out years ago.

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I manage to save people many times in 50 level alliances/trials with Cure1 only coz of 0.5 second faster cast, this 0.5 second allowed me to apply heal right before Boss mass AOE hits the target, other time it allowed to heal almost on walk, while I was avoiding tricky mechanics myself.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

If at any point, you are casting Cure 1 while you have Access to Cure 2, you are trolling.

This discussion has been had on the balance discord a thousand times, Cure 1, is absolutely worthless once you have Cure 2.

No need to argue about it, it is pure fact. People a lot smarter than the rest of us worked this out years ago.

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Well usually yes. And under normal conditions I never use Cure 1. But when the tank decides to pull the whole dungeon, does not use cooldowns and the DDs aren't that good as well, especially in a lower level dungeon when you don't have that many tools als a WHM... Spamming Cure 2 to keep the tank alive will result in a wipe because I will be out of mana pretty soon. The combination of Presence of Mind and spamming Cure 1 works wonders in such situations.

Sure it happens only once a month or so, but that I have access to Cure 1 does prevent a wipe sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Remolia

I manage to save people many times in 50 level alliances/trials with Cure1 only coz of 0.5 second faster cast, this 0.5 second allowed me to apply heal right before Boss mass AOE hits the target, other time it allowed to heal almost on walk, while I was avoiding tricky mechanics myself.

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So the spell is useful because somebody else made a mistake and took avoidable damage in level 50 content, from 10 years ago.
Obviously they had no defensives or self healing, or they just didn't know that those abilities existed. Fair enough.

But in actual content, cure 1 is not used at all, cure 2 might get a single cast during a fight in savage/ultimate/ex.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Well usually yes. And under normal conditions I never use Cure 1. But when the tank decides to pull the whole dungeon, does not use cooldowns and the DDs aren't that good as well, especially in a lower level dungeon when you don't have that many tools als a WHM... Spamming Cure 2 to keep the tank alive will result in a wipe because I will be out of mana pretty soon. The combination of Presence of Mind and spamming Cure 1 works wonders in such situations.

Sure it happens only once a month or so, but that I have access to Cure 1 does prevent a wipe sometimes.

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Regen, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy.
Tank isnt full hp? Use an OGCD heal between Holy spam.
Need to GCD Heal? Use one of those 2 lilys your sitting on to Afflatus Solace him, since it is not a DPS loss to spend a lily.

A dead or stunned enemy does no damage.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Regen, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy.
Tank isnt full hp? Use an OGCD heal between Holy spam.
Need to GCD Heal? Use one of those 2 lilys your sitting on to Afflatus Solace him, since it is not a DPS loss to spend a lily.

A dead or stunned enemy does no damage.

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I don't always agree with Dixie...but when I do...you are screwing up badly.

As soon as Cure 2 becomes available Cure 1 should be tossed in a bin. As soon as you get all your lilly heals then Cure 2 needs to be put on a back burner.

Can you get by with Cure 1 spam in most content till the end of the game? Probably. Yet it is the worst and barest of bones way to do it when there are so many better ways being ignored.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Regen, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy.
Tank isnt full hp? Use an OGCD heal between Holy spam.
Need to GCD Heal? Use one of those 2 lilys your sitting on to Afflatus Solace him, since it is not a DPS loss to spend a lily.

A dead or stunned enemy does no damage.

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The tank would be dead before the first Holy stuns. Yeeees I know about Switcast Holy.

I am not that stupid, I know how WHM works >.>

I had a tank in Dusk Vigil for example who did not know what cooldowns were, who simply pulled everything. When he finally stopped he was basically already dead. Maybe I had 1 Lily at the time, the dungeon just started, Benediction, Presence of Mind and that's it.

I kept him alive thanks to Cure 1. And thanks to everything else I had available of course, which is not much at level 52.

Sure I could have let him die, the tank was horrible and didn't deserve a carry through the dungeon. But wouldn't that be griefing? Even more so than using Cure 1?

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

So the spell is useful because somebody else made a mistake and took avoidable damage in level 50 content, from 10 years ago.

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Obviously they had no defensives or self healing, or they just didn't know that those abilities existed. Fair enough.

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Not my problem. But if some one got ded, and I was able to do something to avoid this (as a healer) - now this is my problem.

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Originally Posted by Remolia

Not my problem. But if some one got ded, and I was able to do something to avoid this (as a healer) - now this is my problem.

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Here's an "idea" : make avoidable aoe vulnerability stacks erasable.
You got bit of depth and monotony break ; you got less overall deaths for "new players".
Right now, they just get ded (nothing you can do about it), so it's a net gain.

But now the real problem :
How much responsibility lies with the healer when a player die from too many stacks ?
Did they eat the stack for the sake of uptime ? did they just get clipped because of lag ? are they just griefing the healers ?
Too much pressure for "new players" and SE don't want that.
The problem is there is no graduation from "new player" (I guess there is Ultimates, go try that)

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Originally Posted by Calysto

Here's an "idea" : make avoidable aoe vulnerability stacks erasable.
You got bit of depth and monotony break ; you got less overall deaths for "new players".
Right now, they just get ded (nothing you can do about it), so it's a net gain.

But now the real problem :
How much responsibility lies with the healer when a player die from too many stacks ?
Did they eat the stack for the sake of uptime ? did they just get clipped because of lag ? are they just griefing the healers ?
Too much pressure for "new players" and SE don't want that.
The problem is there is no graduation from "new player" (I guess there is Ultimates, go try that)

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Feel like that would just end up being a burden for healer, more than a boon.

If you could cleanse Vuln stacks, people would just start eating mechanics deliberately to keep uptime, then bitch at the healers if they weren't cleansed.

It's the reason Savage does Damage Down, not Vuln stacks, because otherwise people do exactly that. Just ignore mechanics for uptime.