My “Next job” predictions: “Scouting” and “Fending”

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

It would be neat of they visited Vanadiel like they mentioned

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I missed this. Do you have a citation please?

I don't want them to add another tank until they give DRK its own identity again

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I would also like to see water magic but there's a lore reason RDM doesn't have any. During the War of the Magi the Amdapori white mages only fought with earth and wind magic against the Mhachi black mages' fire, lightning, and ice magics. The extensive use of those five elements heavily tilted the land's aether away from everything but water, which allowed the Ascians to rejoin a shard via flood. Red mage arts are descended from the Amdapori and Mhachi survivors of the flood, and those white mages didn't use water.

I'm not bringing that up to say that it's writ in stone that RDM can't have water magic--I'm a quick study combat genius who could invent a Verwater spell if I wanted, obviously--but just to say there's a flavour reason for the current lack of water spells in the Eorzean jobs.

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Is there an actual thing in the game that says that the Amdapori mages didn't use water magic and that's why the calamity was a flood or is that just fan conjecture? I thought that at the time Amdapor dungeons came out WHM had water magic.

Sources in the game itself say that the scales tipped toward water because the Elementals wanted to flood the world due to the rampant use of magic.


Either way, it's been something like 1600 years since the Flood so I think they can get over any collective PTSD and do some water and ice magic. Elezen fencing techniques were randomly stapled on after the genesis of the job so it's not like it needs to stay static to how it was a millennium and a half ago.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I missed this. Do you have a citation please?

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It was in one of the recent live letters…more of an off the cuff remark.

They were talking about what FF games they might draw from in future expansions, and they responded something along the lines of “Well, FF9 is still pretty untapped…..oh and there is Vana’diel.”

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Originally Posted by kaynide

It was in one of the recent live letters…more of an off the cuff remark.

They were talking about what FF games they might draw from in future expansions, and they responded something along the lines of “Well, FF9 is still pretty untapped…..oh and there is Vana’diel.”

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Ah, so not literally visit, just reuse ideas or designs from.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Is there an actual thing in the game that says that the Amdapori mages didn't use water magic and that's why the calamity was a flood or is that just fan conjecture? I thought that at the time Amdapor dungeons came out WHM had water magic.

Sources in the game itself say that the scales tipped toward water because the Elementals wanted to flood the world due to the rampant use of magic.

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I'll take a look and see if I can find an explicit statement in game. The circumstances surrounding the Calamity of Water are stated in game and in the EEvol1 at least: white and black mages from two opposing nations at war whose magicks used the land's aether as fuel, leaving the land with basically nothing but water aether leftover. The main reason white magic and black magic are forbidden arts is that they consume ambient aether. From this we are meant to infer that neither the Amdapori nor the Mhachi used much water magic if at all, since there was so much of water aether and so little else left.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I'll take a look and see if I can find an explicit statement in game. The circumstances surrounding the Calamity of Water are stated in game and in the EEvol1 at least: white and black mages from two opposing nations at war whose magicks used the land's aether as fuel, leaving the land with basically nothing but water aether leftover. The main reason white magic and black magic are forbidden arts is that they consume ambient aether. From this we are meant to infer that neither the Amdapori nor the Mhachi used much water magic if at all, since there was so much of water aether and so little else left.

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Nothing in the EE or anywhere in the game says that the world's aether was unbalanced to water because White Mages couldn't use water spells. White Mage could use a water spell until Endwalker came out so I'm not sure the writers were trying to make us infer anything from the gameplay anyway. The only sources I can find of anyone saying that Amdapori mages only used wind and earth and caused the Calamity that way are random people on Reddit guessing without a source and a few of them were just joking.

1.0's White Mage questline tells a different story:

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Originally Posted by Raya-O-Senna

In his pride and avarice, man brought down the wrath of the elementals upon himself. A great deluge was sent to cleanse the land of his wicked presence, in the wake of which the forest rose to swallow up all that was not washed away. Thus did the Six Umbral Era begin… or so it is told.

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Originally Posted by Raya-O-Senna

Oha-Sok is the collective fury of the elementals given form. Their suffering summoned her forth, and in her turn she stokes the fire of their rage with her keening. As I related to you earlier, it was the rage of the elementals that brought an end to the civilization of the Fifth Astral Era. And now the selfsame harbinger of that destruction is come once more. The histories vividly describe the fearsome nature of the elemental of nihility─or ‘the Wrath,’ as she is sometimes called. It is writ that each time she keens, she sets off a hundred of her kind to doing the same. Ever more elementals shall join the keening, and so shall it continue until their chorus rends the land asunder. And then the heavens shall spill forth a deluge of tears, and the trees weep till they are hoarse of voice. Oha-Sok’s awakening spells cataclysm for Eorzea…

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We also learn in ShB that that element imbalance starts on the affected Shard and the excess energy flows to the Source. Even if this Yoshi-P-era 1.0 story is now non-canon and Oha-Sok didn't summon a deluge to wipe away the Magi and it got out of control, the aether being sucked dry from the war would also mean that water aether going crazy on a Shard and being siphoned off to the Source would tip the balance towards water anyway.


Aaaanyway, sort of back on topic, anyone have any ideas for what type of weapon a scouting class could use that doesn't get too close to anyone else's territory? There's already a handful of jobs that just use different lengths/types of swords so that's a possibility, but a boring one.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Nothing in the EE or anywhere in the game says that the world's aether was unbalanced to water because White Mages couldn't use water spells.

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I said, "You're meant to infer it".

Here is what the EEvol1 says:

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Originally Posted by Encyclopaedia Eorzea vol 1, pp 034-035

The Mhachi march on Amdapor was not the sole cause of Eorzea's downfall. Three centuries of ceaseless assault on the land had taken its toll, the drain of energies used to propagate war sending the realm's elemental balance askew.

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Monitoring of the realm's aether indicated an unhealthy imbalance toward water, suggesting the manifestation of a Calamity-scale flood of epic proportions.

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As most of their lands' energies had been exhausted in their efforts to seal Diabolos, there was little remaining for Amdapor's white mages to draw upon to stay the waters....

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The white mage and black mage quest lines both stress that their respective schools are forbidden because they use ambient aether as fuel ("the drain of energies used to propagate war"). If the Amdapori white mages were also waging war with water magic, that too would have been used up. That there was enough water aether left to cause a calamity suggests that if they used water magic, they did not use it in anywhere near the same quantity as they used earth and wind magic. That they couldn't do something with the overabundance of water aether suggests they didn't know any good water spells to spend it on.

The 1.0 telling could be canonically what the very few contemporary white mages believe, while also not being what canonically happened. This much is not problematic; after all, how many people today still believe the universe was created in a literal seven day period and that the Earth is only a few thousand years old?

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Aaaanyway, sort of back on topic, anyone have any ideas for what type of weapon a scouting class could use that doesn't get too close to anyone else's territory? There's already a handful of jobs that just use different lengths/types of swords so that's a possibility, but a boring one.

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We have so many interesting weapons that we haven't explored yet. Not just for another scouting job but in general. Things with chains/ropes especially.

• Rope darts.
• Yo-yos.
• Chain whips.
• Meteor hammers.
• One-handed hammers.
• Long staves (the kind you hit people with, not the kind that shoot glitter).
• Just-a-shield (bonus points if the just-a-shield job is not a tank).
  Mixed-hand weapons:
• handaxe+pistol (my personal pick for a Pirate/Corsair)
• knife+kama (maybe with a chain, even).

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Aaaanyway, sort of back on topic, anyone have any ideas for what type of weapon a scouting class could use that doesn't get too close to anyone else's territory? There's already a handful of jobs that just use different lengths/types of swords so that's a possibility, but a boring one.

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They try to reuse assets if possible, or reincorporate (gladiators used to have daggers, which became swords and the daggers moved to ninja)

So, I expect at some point 1 handed wands/clubs from blm/whm will be a thing on a new job…but for scouting…
We have axes from the beastmaster NPCs, so I imagine that will come into play (and it’s easy to recycle existing axe designs into smaller ones)

I kind of foresee dual wielding a variety of weapons, like crossbow and axe. Kinda like a reverse RDM where they melee with ranged specials…not positional, but distance related procs.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I said, "You're meant to infer it".
[…]
The 1.0 telling could be canonically what the very few contemporary white mages believe, while also not being what canonically happened.

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Yeah I’m not buying that we were meant to infer anything and that explanation you gave doesn’t make any sense to me. Again, the EE just says there was an imbalance of aether, not that they weren’t using water magic. You would think an important detail like that which supposedly led to a taboo like you said in a previous post would be important enough to be mentioned outright, not “meant to be inferred”.

The idea that the 6th Calamity was caused by mages who didn’t know how to use water magic just because the modern job had 1 water spell that was later taken away is way too flimsy and we already know that A.) The world’s aether at the time was already unstable from intense magic war and B.) We know from ShB that a Shard being aspected towards one element has that element sent to the Source.

All it would’ve taken is a water disaster on whatever Shard to make the unstable Source go water crazy, not inept White Mages based on inferring from gameplay.

Also in that 1.0 questline, we talk to the elemental responsible for the 6th Calamity herself because she’s ticked off and wants to start another calamity.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I kind of foresee dual wielding a variety of weapons, like crossbow and axe. Kinda like a reverse RDM where they melee with ranged specials…not positional, but distance related procs.

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I don’t know if they would go as far as doing a reverse RDM since it may upset the power balance between the melee, but then again they’ve been making the hit boxes so large as to be inconsequential lately.

Having dual axes would be neat and may fit the idea of “scouting”. I’d love to revive my old WAR/NIN FFXI days.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Aaaanyway, sort of back on topic, anyone have any ideas for what type of weapon a scouting class could use that doesn't get too close to anyone else's territory? There's already a handful of jobs that just use different lengths/types of swords so that's a possibility, but a boring one.

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It would be mildly boring, but I could see them doing Ranger as a melee class using various larger knives (as opposed to the daggers than NIN uses)... Stuff like Machetes, Kukris, Bowie Knives and what not.

lol they are NOT gonna add 2 melee in a row. theres a higher chance they merge scouting and striking gear than add a melee so soon.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Aaaanyway, sort of back on topic, anyone have any ideas for what type of weapon a scouting class could use that doesn't get too close to anyone else's territory? There's already a handful of jobs that just use different lengths/types of swords so that's a possibility, but a boring one.

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2x 1 handed Axes or 2x 1 handed swords. Poacher/Trapper kind of class.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Red Mage uses Stone and Aero and they're specifically called out as being "White Mana".

Geomancer doesn't fit in since it borrows too much from other classes considering the one example we see uses Conjurer spells and it's stated in the lore to be a far-eastern type of Conjurer/Astrologian, just like how Onmyoji is stated to be a far-eastern Thaumaturge. I don't see the devs giving themselves more work having to completely redo Conjurer and all of its quests, flavor, story, and lore as well as parts of Gridania's story, in addition to 10 levels of Astrologian quests and a change to Red Mage just to add 1 job in the game with reused assets from a lower level class and effectively only 20 levels of actual progressive gameplay.

It would be nice if Red Mage branches out and gets something with ice and water between 90-100 though since those are the only elements it's missing and they're obviously related to each other.


In all likelihood, we shouldn't expect a job that comes from the existing FF roster and the devs have said as much. I don't see a new tank being added since they're now balanced with healers and all content only needs 1-2 tanks per party, same as healers, with alliance raids only needing 3 in the entire instance compared to 6 healers. I can see just 1 job being added with scouting armor since that will balance everything out on different levels but it would also mean 5 jobs crowding the aiming accessories since it would need to be DEX.

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I’m sorry but saying “no that can’t happen because a sub level 30 starter class” when white mage is going on 4 years of no actual stone/aero animations is an interesting train of thought.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

What I said was If the dev team doesn't see them as split between magic and physical ranged then why did they make the effort to represent them that way in game and in all media?. You said I know players think the possibility is high for a new magical and physical ranged DPS because there are three of each, but this is wishful thinking. SE does not view the job roster in this fashion.

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They are actually listed as separate in the official 14 site. As well as having a whole separate list of Role Actions. You don’t see Bard’s out there using Addle.

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

lol they are NOT gonna add 2 melee in a row. theres a higher chance they merge scouting and striking gear than add a melee so soon.

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Once upon a time, I was advocating for DRG to merge into MNK/SAM (would allow for those classes to get more 'armored' gear appearances, so you can have your Shogun style SAM glams), and move NIN onto Aiming with the rest of the Dex classes. Now that RPR has come out, that's thrown a wrench in things somewhat. I don't get what their obsession with having the melee so split across 3 gearsets, with the merges I outlined they'd be able to go down from 7 sets to 5, eliminating the need to 'design' two whole armor sets (and lets be real, 2-3 of them are recolors of a different role anyway), and players would be able to more easily swap across their role. A Melee player would have easier access to DRG/MNK/SAM (and I guess RPR now), whereas now they have only DRG/RPR, or MNK SAM, and if they want to swap from DRG to SAM, tough luck, they gotta spend extra tomes on the leftside gear again.

Only issue is that NIN is a melee lumped in with the ranged. This wouldn't be such an issue if SE would add more Dex Melee classes. Like, why is SAM not a Dex user? What about a katana says 'strength' instead of 'dexterity'?

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

I’m sorry but saying “no that can’t happen because a sub level 30 starter class” when white mage is going on 4 years of no actual stone/aero animations is an interesting train of thought.

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WHM losing it's elemental themes in favor of 'pretty twinkly lights', only for it to be given back on a new class called GEO, would be almost as much of a kick in the balls as if SE released Time Mage, having taken all of the Time related skills away from AST. I also don't see how they could do GEO without bastardizing how it works. Like, to truly capture the 'identity and aesthetic' of GEO, you'd have to place zones on the ground, which modify the 'Geomancy' skill on your hotbar depending which you stand in. So, Ley Lines: the job. I don't think anyone wants the 'boss put an aoe on my ley lines' throughout their entire rotation, do they?

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Once upon a time, I was advocating for DRG to merge into MNK/SAM (would allow for those classes to get more 'armored' gear appearances, so you can have your Shogun style SAM glams), and move NIN onto Aiming with the rest of the Dex classes. Now that RPR has come out, that's thrown a wrench in things somewhat. I don't get what their obsession with having the melee so split across 3 gearsets, with the merges I outlined they'd be able to go down from 7 sets to 5, eliminating the need to 'design' two whole armor sets (and lets be real, 2-3 of them are recolors of a different role anyway), and players would be able to more easily swap across their role. A Melee player would have easier access to DRG/MNK/SAM (and I guess RPR now), whereas now they have only DRG/RPR, or MNK SAM, and if they want to swap from DRG to SAM, tough luck, they gotta spend extra tomes on the leftside gear again.

Only issue is that NIN is a melee lumped in with the ranged. This wouldn't be such an issue if SE would add more Dex Melee classes. Like, why is SAM not a Dex user? What about a katana says 'strength' instead of 'dexterity'?



WHM losing it's elemental themes in favor of 'pretty twinkly lights', only for it to be given back on a new class called GEO, would be almost as much of a kick in the balls as if SE released Time Mage, having taken all of the Time related skills away from AST. I also don't see how they could do GEO without bastardizing how it works. Like, to truly capture the 'identity and aesthetic' of GEO, you'd have to place zones on the ground, which modify the 'Geomancy' skill on your hotbar depending which you stand in. So, Ley Lines: the job. I don't think anyone wants the 'boss put an aoe on my ley lines' throughout their entire rotation, do they?

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So rather than give it to anyone, no one is allowed to have it for the rest of FF14’s lifespan? Because they finally made whitemage, thematically a whitemage.

If Geomancer in the 14 story was based on placing fields, then yes they should. Geomancer in the 14 story is Feng Shui warrior though, and exorcising spirits.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

I’m sorry but saying “no that can’t happen because a sub level 30 starter class” when white mage is going on 4 years of no actual stone/aero animations is an interesting train of thought.

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It would be one thing if they removed all traces of classes from the game in favor of jobs, but Conjurer is tied directly into Gridania's aesthetic and background more than most other classes in the game and they're not going to change a decade worth of story and redo Red Mage's existing skills for the sake of just one job.

Red Mage is already slinging Stone and Aero. I'm 100% down with it getting Water too. I think White Mage should also get a return of more Water-type spells/abilities since I don't believe it would necessarily clash with its class fantasy. But removing CNJ from the game and giving its spells to a new job unrelated to WHM would put RDM in an awkward position since the whole point of both its lore and its gameplay is that it's a combination of Amdapori and Mhachi mages and builds up white magic and black magic bars using Stone, Aero, Fire, and Thunder.

White Mage still has a lot of plant themes ingrained into it already as a holdover from its Conjurer days. It also still has 1 water-themed ability, Aquaveil. Again, I don't see the devs giving themselves more work and dismantling parts of existing jobs and redoing quests just for Geomancer.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

It would be one thing if they removed all traces of classes from the game in favor of jobs, but Conjurer is tied directly into Gridania's aesthetic and background more than most other classes in the game and they're not going to change a decade worth of story and redo Red Mage's existing skills for the sake of just one job.

Red Mage is already slinging Stone and Aero. I'm 100% down with it getting Water too. I think White Mage should also get a return of more Water-type spells/abilities since I don't believe it would necessarily clash with its class fantasy. But removing CNJ from the game and giving its spells to a new job unrelated to WHM would put RDM in an awkward position since the whole point of both its lore and its gameplay is that it's a combination of Amdapori and Mhachi mages and builds up white magic and black magic bars using Stone, Aero, Fire, and Thunder.

White Mage still has a lot of plant themes ingrained into it already as a holdover from its Conjurer days. It also still has 1 water-themed ability, Aquaveil. Again, I don't see the devs giving themselves more work and dismantling parts of existing jobs and redoing quests just for Geomancer.

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Why would red mage need to be changed?

In regards to Amdapori vs Machi, that also has nothing to do with CNJ. It was white vs black mages. And with white mage already losing access to stone/aero, and it LOOSELY using any water abilities, that lore was invalidated 4 years ago. CNJ only exists for 1.0 WHM to have a starter class. Even in the lore you are the ONLY CNJ to be elevated to the lofty position of WHM. Holding the rest of an mmo’s progression hostage due to old and outdated things isn’t always the best option. Especially when they have spoken in interviews about disliking starter classes and wanting to remove them as is. Notice how the last 9 jobs haven’t required one.

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

lol they are NOT gonna add 2 melee in a row. theres a higher chance they merge scouting and striking gear than add a melee so soon.

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The biggest factor why there is a genuine chance for a new melee class for the next expansion despite RPR coming in EW is because there's currently 5 melee and 6 ranged. They may want to even it out to 6 of both.

And a melee using Scouting gear is the most likely if they do add in a new Melee as SAM and MNK share Striking, DRG and RPR share Maiming. NIN is the only melee to not share with a second class yet.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

Why would red mage need to be changed?

In regards to Amdapori vs Machi, that also has nothing to do with CNJ. It was white vs black mages. And with white mage already losing access to stone/aero, and it LOOSELY using any water abilities, that lore was invalidated 4 years ago. CNJ only exists for 1.0 WHM to have a starter class. Even in the lore you are the ONLY CNJ to be elevated to the lofty position of WHM. Holding the rest of an mmo’s progression hostage due to old and outdated things isn’t always the best option. Especially when they have spoken in interviews about disliking starter classes and wanting to remove them as is. Notice how the last 9 jobs haven’t required one.

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It's already established that Stone and Aero are white magic. The whole point of Red Mage is that those spells came to it from Amdapori mages. Its gameplay revolves around balancing using Stone and Aero with Fire and Thunder because thematically it's a mix of White Mages and Black Mages. Nothing is invalidated just because the spells evolved to light spells, they're still in the game if you play a new White Mage or get level sync'd.

Geomancer is already stated in-game to just be an alternate Astrologian and out-of-game to be a combination of Astromancy and Conjury.

You're gonna have to a lot of retconning in order to fit GEO in the game as a playable job when you could just add something new that doesn't clash with anything else.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Geomancer is already stated in-game to just be an alternate Astrologian and out-of-game to be a combination of Astromancy and Conjury.

You're gonna have to a lot of retconning in order to fit GEO in the game as a playable job when you could just add something new that doesn't clash with anything else.

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Geomancer isn't an alternate version of anything. They just note similarities to conjury and astromancy in that it derives its magic from nature and uses it for divination. Furthermore, historically when a class has been teased that wasn't in the game yet, the devs had to use another class as a base and the actual class turned out to be quite different upon release. There is also no reason to take anything away from CNJ to give us GEO. CNJ just uses stone and aero. Geomancers have access to all 6 elements and some non-elemental magic in various games in the form of weather and terrain spells. It's more versatile than white magic

My guess will be a Caster and a Phys Ranged, as neither of these roles received a new job in Endwalker, and a new Tank/Healer would upset the current balance the devs have going on. Each of those roles only has 3 (no, BLU doesn't count) jobs, and whilst Scouting gear is still unique, there's no reason that say, a 6th melee couldn't be added in 8.0, to bring the total number to 6 melee DPS, 8 Ranged DPS, 4 Tanks, and 4 Healers. Ergo, a grand total of 22 jobs (23 including BLU), which would equal the total number of jobs in FF11. 2 Slaying, 2 Striking, 2 Scouting, 4 Aiming, 4 Casting would be a good place to go "Okay, that's enough jobs, let's focus on making each of them unique", and with 7.0 bringing Level 100 with it, 8.0 would likely be busy with trying to change up the leveling system in some way, so there's be a justification for only having a single job.

That, and I could definitely see a 'split' for tanks (much like with the healers) to try and better distinguish them from each other.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

That, and I could definitely see a 'split' for tanks (much like with the healers) to try and better distinguish them from each other.

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Could always go back to the sort of split where tanks are better at dealing with either Magic damage or Physical Damage... Much like how it was back in HW when DRK first got introduced and had more ways of surviving magic damage, while PLD's blocking only worked on physical damage.

I want a caster more then anything personally, I'd hope it would have something similar to BLM where your hard casting, I'd be really hoping it doesn't feel similar to the SMN design of not really "casting"

Just my opinion but I really don't want yet another Melee DPS job. When you look at the melee jobs we got they all are fulfilling the same basic role of "close ranged, positional job" I don't feel like any of the 5 melee DPS really differ from another outside basic rotations. If we did get a new melee DPS I'd at least hope they'd try something unique (idk a proc based melee might be interesting). we know Dragoon is going to be largely reworked, so it would basically be like getting 2 new melee's depending on how much the job is redesigned.

I also want the idea of "Scouting" or different melee gear to not be a thing, it just seems like a annoying way to prevent you from gearing melees at the same time It's not like wearing Scouting or Maiming gear suddenly brings this interesting dynamic to the Jobs, it's just different gear... I wouldn't mind as much if gearing different jobs wasn't a task in itself.

For tanks I don't really know? It would be interesting to see a new tank, but at the same time I want tanks to see a small overhaul in 7.0 The Shb design for tanks basically carried over to EW and it's "ok" but I'd really want some serious evolution from it, but as Gunbreaker came with the new redesign maybe theirs hope that something interesting in general will be done to tanks if we get a new one. Obviously No old aggro management, but I'd like to see some love to tanks, I feel like War/drk need to feel different from their core rotations, PLD's rework really wasn't great to me (It had some nice ideas but it's generally not refined).

I also don't think we will see two close ranged jobs, it's normally 1Melee (tank/dps) 1ranged (caster/pranged/healer), theirs generally always been that balance, Which I think its likely going to be Caster & Scouting melee or Tank.

I second a magical caster. I would love something that heavy on the dot side like the old SMNbut I wonder if we ever get that again, similar to Affliction warlock in wow I suppose.
Or something similar to BLM but with a twist. Looking at the library of FF jobs, I'm not really sure what would fit the bill though.

GEO is a caster/buffer/healer hybrid in 11 but in 14 lore it is more of a healer, right?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

I second a magical caster. I would love something that heavy on the dot side like the old SMNbut I wonder if we ever get that again, similar to Affliction warlock in wow I suppose.
Or something similar to BLM but with a twist. Looking at the library of FF jobs, I'm not really sure what would fit the bill though.

GEO is a caster/buffer/healer hybrid in 11 but in 14 lore it is more of a healer, right?

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The game doesn't state that it's a healer. It was just compared to CNJ and the playerbase took that and ran with it. There's honestly quite a bit of misinformation spread about its lore in XIV due to pure assumptions

One thing people seem to forget about Geomancer is that they're tied to AST... And there are actual reasons for it that don't inherently come across in the english translation necessarily as the job in past FF games in Japanese has always been more related to Feng Shui and it's ways of making predictions and what not... Rather than being an earth mage, I suppose the English is taking the actual translation of "Geomancy" from greek which apparently is "Earth Divination".

If anything, we do need something that uses crossbows. So either Ranger/Hunter could be it. You could lay down traps or something that damages upon stepping on, act like NIN’s Doton with the AOE ground patch, or acts like the turret from MCH but lasts longer.

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Originally Posted by Firework

Geomancer isn't an alternate version of anything. They just note similarities to conjury and astromancy in that it derives its magic from nature and uses it for divination. Furthermore, historically when a class has been teased that wasn't in the game yet, the devs had to use another class as a base and the actual class turned out to be quite different upon release. There is also no reason to take anything away from CNJ to give us GEO. CNJ just uses stone and aero. Geomancers have access to all 6 elements and some non-elemental magic in various games in the form of weather and terrain spells. It's more versatile than white magic

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Except that it is an alternate version, and there's nothing in FFXIV's lore that says it uses ice, thunder, or fire.

Kyokuho picks up astromancy extremely quick. astromancy magic is able to restore barriers created with geomancy. And at the end of the Astologian quests in Kugane, Kyokuho adapts astromancy to geomancy as a 4th element in order to solve the questline while Levava considers the wall broken between the schools of geomancy and astromancy.

Where it connects to Conjurer is that our one example of a GEO who isn't just a Feng Shui consultant uses a Conjurer's 1-handed wand and uses water, stone, and wind spells.

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Originally Posted by EE2

Geomancy is an art wherein the practitioner delves into the currents of air, earth, and water, and combines their energies with his own to produce arcane phenomena.
[...]
With regards to the mastery it grants over wind, earth, and water, as well as its affinity for barriers, geomancy is thought to share many similarities with conjury. Scholars have also pointed out how certain aspects of the art have a kinship with Sharlayan astrology. In the nation of Hingashi, however, the geomancer’s banishing and binding of evil has been misconstrued as a means to manipulate the land and invite good fortune, leading the populace to consider these mages little more than advisors for aspiring merchants.

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Originally Posted by Kyokuho

The scrolls─they contained knowledge of the complete ritual. Wind, water, earth. Creation of the bonds calls for the energies of all three. Though this much even a first-year novice of geomancy could tell you.

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Originally Posted by EE2

Having acquired a fundamental knoweldge of astrology under the tutelage of Levava and her associates, and further receiving aid from a certain adventurer, [Kyokuho] succeeded in combing the three geomantic energies of wind, water, and earth with a fourth energy─that of the stars─to seal away the vengeful spirit of the fox once more.

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Originally Posted by EE2

The art of geomancy, with its command over wind, earth, and water, can be employed as a method for constructing Tenkoto.

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I can't find the interview right now (there really needs to be a compilation somewhere), but I believe it was Koji who mentioned that Conjurers and Thaumaturges don't have a monopoly on elemental magic and that other civilizations across the world have different structures around doing the same thing. The lore book equating GEO to CNJ/AST and Onmyoji to THM is an example of that. It's just like how Ala Mhigo, Ishgard, and Gridania have their own techniques for using the same weapon: the polearm. And warriors on the Azim Steppe and Abalathia's Spine independently discovered the same battle art on opposite ends of the planet.

There are three reasons I'm against having a geomancer job. The first is that as presented to us so far in FFXIV, the job is not unique enough to stand on its own and this game already has a problem with homogenizing everything that I really don't want to continue. The second is that there is only 1 living practitioner of the art in the entire game and he is tied up in another job's storyline. And thirdly, it can be assumed that there are also no job stones for geomancers because the art has basically died out, with the successors having to find things out by reading scrolls or misinterpreting geomancy altogether.

Kyokuho does say that he's going to train an army of geomancers, but again, that's locked into the astrologian questline.

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

lol they are NOT gonna add 2 melee in a row. theres a higher chance they merge scouting and striking gear than add a melee so soon.

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Please point to the rule book that states the devs aren't allowed to do this. Plus, they've already done it when you include tanks as another melee fighter, which it is. If you want to include job reworks as well then you can add MNK into what has been three expansions in a row of time devoted to melee job releases. Plus, DRG is getting reworked in 7.0. If you want to go back even further you can include DRK in the HW release, and NIN as a post release during ARR. If you only want to include melee DPS, the question still quickly becomes: What makes you think that there wouldn't be a melee release in 7.0 based on their previous decisions?

Now let's look at ranged jobs: MCH in HW (AST if you include healers), RDM in SB, DNC in ShB and a ground up MCH rework, SGE (if you include healers) in EW and a ground up SMN rework. Seems a little less, doesn't it? Yet, despite that the game still has more ranged jobs overall compared to melee. Even from strictly a DPS standpoint, players have six to choose from. Those who favor melee DPS only have five. If a gap in job releases is the basis for the belief that the game needs another caster and physical ranged, then what happens if you somehow split the melee classes into two sub roles? You then have one with three and another with two.

Also, there is zero chance they merge Scouting and Striking sets. They would have to delete a ton of gear to accomplish this, and then make decisions on what stays and what goes. The only possible merging is making all melee classes use the Slaying set of accessories. This would require changing NINs primary stat to STR, which is a hell of a lot easier to do than merging two existing sets of left side gear, and should have been this way initially in the first place. This is the path of least resistance.

Of course, I am not the one who greenlights the decisions at SE. It is still possible that they do release more ranged jobs, but it most certainly isn't where I would wager my money based on the current state of the game, and their track record.

Are there any time mage jobs in final fantasy? I wonder if the rework of AST will coincide with the creation of a time mage. Gaia was time mage like, the Eden and current alliance raid have had time magic (but fate (cards) it could be more AST like) I would sad if lightspeed disappeared, but I think it could remain because WHM has PoM. They also changed day (diurnal) and night (noct) away and made it neutral sect. So my top guess is time mage with some name I’d never think of.

I’ve noticed they’ve also been taking away the elemental look of spells from WHM, like stone and aero. Maybe it’s for a caster like Geomancer or a Green mage nature DPS.

I still want a beast master though. Summoner was reworked to not really be a pet job so maybe a true pet class? I felt like the Bozja was a teaser for them, but I thought axe and shield weapons were a bit odd. Maybe it’s going to be the next limited side content job?

I agree with most that one new class will be a Scouting gear share, maybe dual wielding pistol job? Weapons I’m not sure what’s missing, hammers, bells, and pistols? I couldn’t have guessed the Sage weapons so it could definitely be something completely unexpected.

There was a Time Mage in FF5 and Tactics.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Time_Mage

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Please point to the rule book that states the devs aren't allowed to do this. Plus, they've already done it when you include tanks as another melee fighter, which it is. If you want to include job reworks as well then you can add MNK into what has been three expansions in a row of time devoted to melee job releases. Plus, DRG is getting reworked in 7.0. If you want to go back even further you can include DRK in the HW release, and NIN as a post release during ARR. If you only want to include melee DPS, the question still quickly becomes: What makes you think that there wouldn't be a melee release in 7.0 based on their previous decisions?

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lol tank is not the same role as melee dps you are trolling. SE is super predictable and they do not add the same role 2 xpacs in a row. reworks do not matter either.

ARR = nin melee
HW = tank healer phys
SB = caster melee
shb = tank phys
EW = healer melee

see the pattern? they do not do the same twice in a row. 7.0 will be anything except a healer and melee dps.

dear god I hope we don't get another melee. I don't care about the scouting gear argument, melee DPS is the most saturated role in the game right now.

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

lol tank is not the same role as melee dps you are trolling. SE is super predictable and they do not add the same role 2 xpacs in a row. reworks do not matter either.

ARR = nin melee
HW = tank healer phys
SB = caster melee
shb = tank phys
EW = healer melee

see the pattern? they do not do the same twice in a row. 7.0 will be anything except a healer and melee dps.

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So...caster and ranged, since they only have 3 each (BLU doesn't count, for obvious reasons)

I remain unconvinced that there could be any other jobs cool enough to share scouting gear with NIN :cool:

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Originally Posted by Allegor

So...caster and ranged, since they only have 3 each (BLU doesn't count, for obvious reasons)

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Tanks and melees are usually released separately from each other you will got a different one each expansion, theoretically because you generally want to have one close ranged (MDPS/Tank) and one far ranged job, Two far ranged jobs (Healer, Caster or Physranged) its highly unlikely they will add two ranged DPS one being caster and one being physical ranged, I don't think we're going to get another healer before a tank in 8.0 Nor do I think we will get both in 8.0 (as they generally like to have at least one DPS as it's the most "appealing" job).

The most likely combo is going to be Caster and tank in 7.0 and Phys ranged and Melee in 8.0, Healers barrier split looks like something they wouldn't really wanna go over for a while So I'm really not expecting them to make a healer for a long while now
All of this is speculation based on past info and what's likely. For all we know we could get 2 healers or something lol, also we could likely go down to 1 job in somepoint in the future, if not 0

Enough melees come on

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

dear god I hope we don't get another melee. I don't care about the scouting gear argument, melee DPS is the most saturated role in the game right now.

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Casters are ranged DPS making the total of those not counting BLU as 6 and the most saturated role in game.

If you're going to split hairs and call caster and aiming separate then you have to do the same for melee dps making it 2,2,1. The 1 being scouting and all 3 being lower than both types of ranged DPS. There's also the argument that NIN is a hybrid DPS rather than a dedicated physical one.

Then there's also those comments they made about whatever jobs come next will be something new to the franchise implying they won't be grabbing jobs from previous FF titles. Though that raises a question of whether or not other SE titles are fair game. Other titles with job systems I can immediately recall are the Bravely Default series, Dragon Quest series, and Harvestella.

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Originally Posted by Firework

Geomancer isn't an alternate version of anything. They just note similarities to conjury and astromancy in that it derives its magic from nature and uses it for divination. Furthermore, historically when a class has been teased that wasn't in the game yet, the devs had to use another class as a base and the actual class turned out to be quite different upon release. There is also no reason to take anything away from CNJ to give us GEO. CNJ just uses stone and aero. Geomancers have access to all 6 elements and some non-elemental magic in various games in the form of weather and terrain spells. It's more versatile than white magic

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This right here, in game and lore book it’s states they are SIMILAR. Also this is all old lore/info at this point, and very much reads as vague information so that they could literally go any direction with it.

If they lean into the Onmyoji/ascetic arts that the game has shown us so far, fantastic. That separates the jobs even further.

At this point we have an open Geomancy school in Kugane. And a major lore character returning with a handful of placeholder animations and some new ones. Doman involved character, check. Character on pilgrimage learning ascetic arts, check. (I’m the lore book when mentioning weapons and Geomancy it involved monks going on pilgrimages in Othard to learn/harness Geomantic power.) Said character using aero/stone animations in duty along with barrier magic dealing with spirits (as in Kugane), check.

His final words are even “when I return, it will not be as a samurai but something else that will give our enemies reason to “tremble”.

Tl;dr People see “similar” and think dev’s aren’t smart enough to not make a clone. I don’t think it’s going to be a traditional FF geomancer, I think it will be 14’s ascetic exorcist Asian caster we need.