Mentor Status AKA the new Sprouts AKA Burger King Hats

Seems like a lot of effort to try to plug a bad system with the ratings. If you see crowns you know they are likely going to be worse than sprouts and that's enough.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

Seems like a lot of effort to try to plug a bad system with the ratings. If you see crowns you know they are likely going to be worse than sprouts and that's enough.

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Yes its definitely the crowns running around like chickens whenever they have to be autonomous without following the danger dorito /s

It's just a icon next to a name; it could be the AFK chair icon and still hold almost the same weight behind it.

We are also human, not machines, and even machines mess up in spectalular fashion. Cut each other some slack. :)

People should realize (both mentor and not mentor) that mentor doesn't mean you can play, only that you played long enough to get the 1500 honors. Some can, some are good at a few things, and some are terrible.

Having played from since before the mentor thing was even brought in. I will say this. This needs to be removed. That crown don't mean anything. a large amount of "mentors" don't know a darn thing about this game or any mechanics and its not like they do anything new. you play long enough then you can instantly recognize what you need to do. Then you have the "mentors" who just got their comms to stay in their chatroom known as novice network. Sure i been in it here and there and some servers are good at dropping discussion to actually answer a question but i rarely see a mentor give a right answer on most worlds. Some novice networks are used soley as a hunt linkshell or in the case of a few worlds, charged people gil to join. Then theres mentor rouleyttes. basically a roulette designed for you to help sprouts but most times the mentor..yet again, doesn't know what they are doing or say something like "if we have 3 wipes im leaving".

If a mentor is able to give tips and wipes still happens. then its not on the mentor. sprouts just not getting it or listening or bad lag. etc etc. However, i have heard way more horror stories about mentors then actual good things. One day on my original character I had decided i wanted to help people. so i got my mentor, which i can say is a total joke to get. You can unsync pretty much anything and as players have proven, make a pity macro for comms. I earned all my comms for the original amount and did the dungeons and stuff. it was pretty easy and then i learned by watching the actual mentors and running stuff how to play and do mechanics. I would give little bits of tips here and there in party chat and generally people were receptive. my current character i decided to go the crafter/gatherer route which is just as simple to do.

then i watched chats. if it didn't devolve to politics or other topics, some people genuinely helped and i myself would pm sprouts here and there to answer. However, i quickly learned that not having that crown is way better. I can help people without being judged because lets face it. lots of the playerbase think low of the mentors. Not the fault of the actual mentors who do help but its the rest of the burgerkings/burgerqueens who made it that way. The system either needs to be overhauled to include showing basic knowledge in different mechanics or tougher requirements to actually get the crown. heck i would even love to see a single savage thrown in. having done a few, i have a different outlook on the game and see what the normal content is all about or it needs to be abolished altogether. its a joke system with a mentor network used as a large in game gabfest that rarely stops to actually answer questions.

To the level 90 Mentor tank in my trial, I salute you for turning the boss NUMEROUS times towards the party and wiping half of them. Bravo. That crown looks great.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

People should realize (both mentor and not mentor) that mentor doesn't mean you can play, only that you played long enough to get the 1500 honors. Some can, some are good at a few things, and some are terrible.

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Yes, thats what people have an issue with...

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

I DEFY YOU to find me one player in all the playerbase that knows the mechanics of each and every fight by heart.

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Psst. This isn't the accomplishment you think it is. Most of the fights are very simple, and a great deal of them share some or several mechanics. Once you know a mechanic, you know it. Even the fights that aren't simple still boil down to memorization, which most people won't completely lose due the unfathomable amounts of repetition involved. You can toss just about any competent player into a fight they've not touched in years and reasonably expect it to come back to them very quickly.

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Originally Posted by Meowdyj

Oh look it's another thread about Mentor Crown again. Everytime these pop up the general consensus is that mentors should know every mechanic, every duty boss, mastered every job and cleared all savage and ultimate fights. Because you know mentors are robots, not actual human beings trying to help out when they are able to.

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Slapping the crown on means you are volunteering to guide other players. Queueing for mentor roulette likewise carries certain expectations. It is not unreasonable for players to expect crowns to be useful when they queue into, for example, an extreme trial. Instead of usefulness, what you sometimes get is some saltlord that collects vuln stacks like Pokemon and only half-knows how their class works.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Doesnt matter. Its third party, its illegal to use, plugins or not. Its cheating. Why is it cheating? it gives an unfair advantage to those who dont use it.

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Discord gives an "uinfair" advantage to those who use it. It is a third-party tool. Not everyone can/is willing with to get in a voice chat with other players, and their performance often suffers because of it. By your logic, this is in fact cheating.

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Originally Posted by Makarovv

First and foremost , this post is not meant to come off as elitism or anything of the sorts, just some suggestions to improve the system in place. I find it incredibly annoying wiping multiple times in a row in roulettes cause half or more than half the party, in some cases, are made up of sprouts following the mentor that doesn't actually know the mechanics., when your just trying to get through your dailies. I have no problems helping out sprouts, i enjoy it, the problem is the sprout in disguise (aka Mentor) causing the wipes due to the crown. In order to combat this, i have some suggestions:

1. Add a grade system for each instances.
2. Anyone with a (B+) in said instances crowns will show , Anyone with (B), (B-) in said instances crowns will be turned off as soon they zone in.
3. Don't Make the grades hard to bring back up for the instances in case people fail mechanics multiple times.
4. Grade updates after duty is complete.
5. Make achievements for having all instances (extremes and below) At an (A) - give a title and (A+) - gives a Mount.

I believe this will push players/community to want to do better or strive to be a better player. you get the gist of it, im out. Thank you for coming to my ted talk o/

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No thanks the system works fine as it is.

Place the Burger King Crown upon my head Tirion, and forevermore I shall be the jailor of the duty finder extreme queueing sprouts.

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Discord gives an "unfair" advantage to those who use it. It is a third-party tool.

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LMAO. No.

https://media.tenor.com/su06rf5h150A...-kill-bill.gif

Discord as a 'third party tool" is akin to you telling me Im not allowed to use a telephone. Or my mobile.

Seriously. No.

Discord sends and receives files, plays music, allows voice conversation and text conversations.....what it DOESNT DO is read out and warn of mechanics ahead of time (automated) , it also doesnt interfere or interact with the internal game files in any way shape or form so no, wrong.

Addons and plugins do indeed read game files...especially the ones that allow you to see and be warned of mechanics, zooms out so far they may as well have their own SATNAV system, has a map system that literally tells you where to stand, reads other players dps numbers and displays them...including a heap of other.........not so savoury............things.

THAT is cheating.

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Psst. This isn't the accomplishment you think it is. Most of the fights are very simple, and a great deal of them share some or several mechanics. Once you know a mechanic, you know it. Even the fights that aren't simple still boil down to memorization, which most people won't completely lose due the unfathomable amounts of repetition involved. You can toss just about any competent player into a fight they've not touched in years and reasonably expect it to come back to them very quickly.

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So you know all the fights for say, Aglaia, all the bosses, by heart?

No. You dont.

Just get rid of the crown. keep the mentor system & rewards the way the are. I doubt we will have as many mentors as we do now, since a lot of players applied to be mentors for the crown alone.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Yet it has plugins that DO cheat and DO call out mechanics, and others who dont use that third party addon dont see those...so it is still an unfair advantage.

Saraide: sorry I wont budge on this.

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How is it that most threads you enter devolve into arguing about mods? Just stop

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

So you know all the fights for say, Aglaia, all the bosses, by heart?

No. You dont.

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Lets take a crack at this because I have nothing better to do:

First boss does cleaving tankbusters, the knockback with boss relative cardinal mini cleaves (dont get knocked into the wall), the block arena with hammers pushing the blocks (dont fall off) and the line hammer, at the end of block arena he does a big three line wide attack (dodge to the a block line that gets pushed outwards, back in normal arena he does a another knockback i think, clones will shoot slow or fast exaflares depending on if they visually charge up or not. Overall nothing is going to be surprising if you've done the fight like once.

First miniboss does half arena cleaves in front of him and makes lightning clouds that cover quadrants opposite of each other (these are later combined), baited aoes and another cleaving tankbuster.

Second boss does half arena punches to whichever big portal he tethers too, first falling meteor is real, second and third are fake, fourth is real again, knockback needs you to align with the one (maybe two) fingers that are safe, after the knockback there are aoes on some players, he also has pizza slice cleaves that rotate once followed by a small aoe tank buster on all 3 tanks. Most important thing is to look which portal he punches.

second miniboss is the two lions which telegraph everything they do if you can count from 1 to 2. Kill the left one first.

Third boss does a two large cleaves opposite of eachother which summons big fireballs at the edge (later they get pushed around by clones), there is the fire cross which gets blown over by the clones so stand in the quadrant that will not get blasted, fan dance summons two fans at the edge of the arena that will rotate until she makes them explode with giant aoes, she has a 270° frontal cleave that she will aim at a random player so look out when she turns, when she summons a giant fireball dodge into the first set of eruptions that go off afterwards move behind her after she moves, second set of fire cross has 3 clones instead of 2, fire triangle makes 3 knockback lines which is trivial if you can count from 1 to 3 and even more trivial if you use KB immunity to easily block two of them. Her tankbusters are like the second boss. All of this is telegraphed, you just need to use your eyes.

Last boss always frequently shows two aoe patterns, only the one that matches the background colour and the torches floating around him will go off, he can swap those mid cast (just open your eyes), later these arent just in or out but also line stack or follow aoes on 3 players, last boss also has a half arena cleave indicated by the giant purple eye laser charge up, he can swap those, he has a mechanic where he charges up 2 to 3 attacks (either giant aoe or knockback) and does them in the same sequence he charged them up (counting from 1 to 3 is helpful), thall's balls is just meteors dropping all around the edge dodge them as they spawn in, add phase tethers most of the party to their add and has cleaves and stacks, afterwards you need to match every add's weight for the scale with 8 players on the other half of the arena, once below ever above makes a bunch of twin exaflares (again red go off when everything glows red, blue vice versa). His tankbuster is a tankstack.

I think that's all. There you go, just from memory. None of this matters however as all the mechanics in this araid are self explanatory. If you get hit more than once by the same mechanics you just havent been paying attention.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

No thanks the system works fine as it is.

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My main issue with it is the fact that there's only 100 spots for mentors in Novice Network coupled with the fact that as mentioned previousl, most people only sign up for the crown not to actually be helpful so they just take up space.

They could fix that by simply requiring you to opt into NN every single time you log on as opposed to it just automatically shoving you in there the instant you accept mentor status.

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Lets take a crack at this because I have nothing better to do:

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Right

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she has a 270° frontal cleave that she will aim at a random player so look out when she turns

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Yeah you wrote this from memory, and measured it yourself.

I believe you.

No I dont.

You used a guide. Didnt you?

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Just get rid of the crown. keep the mentor system & rewards the way the are. I doubt we will have as many mentors as we do now, since a lot of players applied to be mentors for the crown alone.

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The chat should be dissolved as well too. I realize that the novice network helps a lot of people, but many, many people are not mature enough to moderate it. A lot of novice networks turn into another chat similiar to a linkshell or FC anyways.

Instead we should create a system where sprouts can open up a box to asks questions and mentors that are not in duties can receive a notification and respond back anonymously. Maybe even add a drop down that lets them pick what type of mentor their question suits between Crafts and Battle.

It'll hurt the community aspect a lot, but if we're being honest it'll be worth it to have a more streamlined system that isn't going to end up in the hands of egomaniacs.

Hey Yeol, who drew that cute bust of your Character?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Right



Yeah you wrote this from memory, and measured it yourself.

I believe you.

No I dont.

You used a guide. Didnt you?

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Or there's only a 90 degree angle safe spot behind her. 360 - 90 = 270.

You don't need a guide to know what a right angle is... stop reaching.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Right



Yeah you wrote this from memory, and measured it yourself.

I believe you.

No I dont.

You used a guide. Didnt you?

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I really hope you arent a mentor because this is actually kinda sad.

https://www.ffxivrealm.com/attachmen...nals-png.5360/

Maybe this image will help jumpstart your braincells a bit.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Hey Yeol, who drew that cute bust of your Character?

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FKAexe, they are open for commissions :D

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Right



Yeah you wrote this from memory, and measured it yourself.

I believe you.

No I dont.

You used a guide. Didnt you?

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did you pass math in school at all? i know the attack thats talked about and a circle is only 360 degrees. she leaves a 90 degree safe spot behind her. i mean do the math lol

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Or there's only a 90 degree angle safe spot behind her. 360 - 90 = 270.

You don't need a guide to know what a right angle is... stop reaching.

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Once I realized it was sweep the leg. A move Byakko and one other boss does prior to Aglia's release I just looked for the rear section of her hit box.

The only thing Saraide forgot is every fight starts with an unavoidable room wide aoe. Though the 1st miniboss can get damaged enough that he does cleave instead of Bolts out of the Blue first.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Once I realized it was sweep the leg. A move Byakko and one other boss does prior to Aglia's release I just looked for the rear section of her hit box.

The only thing Saraide forgot is every fight starts with an unavoidable room wide aoe. Though the 1st miniboss can get damaged enough that he does cleave instead of Bolts out of the Blue first.

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Yea I skipped standard raidwides, post was already long enough as is and those really should not surprise anyone anymore lol

I'd like to address the elephant in the room as well. Not all sprouts are genuine new players either. I have seen many knowledgeable sprouts in the Novice Network and in dungeons. These are clearly obvious alts of someone who knows how to play the game, but it often leads to "Sprouts do a better job than mentors do" which would be an illusion. That sprout could be a mentor on their main. I myself have leveled many alts and have seen people randomly start explaining mechanics I didn't ask for just because they saw "New Player Bonus" in the instance. For this reason, some mentors might not explain anything until they are asked because they cannot confirm wither or not this sprout knows what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

FKAexe, they are open for commissions :D

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Thank you! They did an amazing job!

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Yea I skipped standard raidwides, post was already long enough as is and those really should not surprise anyone anymore lol

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Oh I know. I'm just surprised Velkallor didn't ding you on that as well.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I'd like to address the elephant in the room as well. Not all sprouts are genuine new players either. I have seen many knowledgeable sprouts in the Novice Network and in dungeons. These are clearly obvious alts of someone who knows how to play the game, but it often leads to "Sprouts do a better job than mentors do" which would be an illusion. That sprout could be a mentor on their main. I myself have leveled many alts and have seen people randomly start explaining mechanics I didn't ask for just because they saw "New Player Bonus" in the instance. For this reason, some mentors might not explain anything until they are asked because they cannot confirm wither or not this sprout knows what they are doing.

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Yeah that is partly how I approach it. If they don't speak up at the start how am I to know that the sprout is a sprout or someone who story skipped or didn't unlock some of the optional dungeons yet they're on a HW job or rocking gear you can't get without being further than whatever they're running.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I disagree. The whole system needs to be reworked from the ground up. Not really like how OP suggests, but it needs a change.

Also no one really wants to kick in the NN unless it's bots or whatever, because as it turns out you can have a bunch of mentors collude to kick any mentors offering helpful advice in the NN, but you can't have a mentor kick another mentor that's spamming nsfw feet fetish lines in the chat without a GM talking to you later.

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That's my point. Some are complaining that a system is doing what it is designed to do, but it just isn't what they want. That's like me complaining that I bought a car that happens to have 4 tires. Maybe 3 tires is better! Gee, I wish the 4 tire car had 3 tires... Maybe this MMO...err... car, just isn't for me. Maybe I should go out and look for one that is for me.

Honestly surprised at the number of people who are more understanding than not of people who choose to Mentor.

I've played this game for nearly 10 years, have a playtime of over 1263 days, and while I remember a lot of this game and its encounters, so many of the specifics, I don't. Somtimes I need to see things again or hell, even quickly dive into a wiki page of the fight to refresh myself. But as many have said, expecting someone to be an expert in every fight in the game is not feasible. I, too, make basic mistakes sometimes. But I always try my best to help lead players to victory when I do mentor roulette. Using my best judgement on when and how to offer advice.

All your grading system does unfortunately is encourage people to work on one fight until they reach A+ and then forget all the knowledge afterwards (like cramming for a test). If you argue "Well you can't raise your grade unless its through mentor roulette." then there's literally dozens of fights that you would never get graded on because you would actually never get them from a mentor roulette.

Do you know what most Mentor roulettes put you in? Dungeons. Story Trials. Normal Raids. Guildhests. Very rarely do I ever get an extreme. And when I do? It's almost always ones from ARR - from players who havent learned to use the Party Finder yet.

Changing the crown to maybe a watering can is a nice idea (suggested many times in the past), but what should also be done in my opinion is clearly reframing the expectations of a Mentor. I particularly like the framing of them as not "People who are experts at the game." but instead "People who are willing to help, and have [X] amount of experience".

Takes the pressure off of being seemingly infallible.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

So the sprouts die because of the mentor, who is expected to excel at over 100 instances. No fault of the sprout or any other non mentor player in the instance.

How about being responsible for your own progress and / or performance? No? Alright, my bad

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Woah there, Kolyaina no need to call out like 99.5% of players who cry about x mechanics XD that burn was so good. Remember peeps No one needs to adjust to your screw up. You need to learn, play better, and most of all git gud. All jokes tho kolaina is spitting facts :D she earn those thumbs up.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Woah there, Kolyaina no need to call out like 99.5% of players who cry about x mechanics XD that burn was so good. Remember peeps No one needs to adjust to your screw up. You need to learn, play better, and most of all git gud. All jokes tho kolaina is spitting facts :D she earn those thumbs up.

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*get good*
*pt isn't getting good*
*meteors wipe everyone*
How do I get so good I can do group mechanics myself? /stagger