Twitch streamers still blatantly cheating on stream.

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

I mean does it give you a advantage- no,is it in violation of TOS -yes, can you be suspended or banned for using it -yes so depends on how you want to define cheating though really. Some see it as gaining a edge over others like the zoom hack incident - did it give them a advantage yes they were 2 days ahead of everyone else. Some people view violating TOS as a for of cheating no matter how small the incident. In the end though if SE wants they can ban you for using it so they created it I can abide by their wishes

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Something like act should be added to the game. Not to the extent of act where you can parse a whole alliance. But a personal parser would do good for the community that cares about performance

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Something like act should be added to the game. Not to the extent of act where you can parse a whole alliance. But a personal parser would do good for the community that cares about performance

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There's a lot of add-ons that should be added ACT would be on the lower end of my concern (due to Yoshi being correct this can be used for toxicity if players choose to use it that way) but add-ons like ones that allow viera to wear hat, chat bubbles if you prefer that and so on should be part of the game

I’m trying to imagine a world where people willingly watch amazon employees play video games, while being bombarded with advertising and hate speech. Oh wait, that’s our stupid reality lol

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Originally Posted by Picker

I’m trying to imagine a world where people willingly watch amazon employees play video games, while being bombarded with advertising and hate speech. Oh wait, that’s our stupid reality lol

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Huh what Amazon employees???

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

Huh what Amazon employees???

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It's a hyperbolic way of pointing out that twitch is owned by Amazon.

Just don't want them to wreck the game for rest of us by making Yoshi add anti cheat system.

1. I am pro mods. If you wanna use mods it's fine.

2. I'm anti-cheat. It's an MMO. I hate it when people cheat to get an edge.

3. ACT to me is not a cheat. It is a mod though.

4. If you cheat and you stream it...you're a moron and deserve your ban.

5. If you have active mods when you stream...you're also still an idiot cause they said very clearly NO 3RD PARTY TOOLS period. However I feel a lot of mods are harmless so perhaps a suspension and not a ban.

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

I mean does it give you a advantage- no,is it in violation of TOS -yes, can you be suspended or banned for using it -yes so depends on how you want to define cheating though really. Some see it as gaining a edge over others like the zoom hack incident - did it give them a advantage yes they were 2 days ahead of everyone else. Some people view violating TOS as a for of cheating no matter how small the incident. In the end though if SE wants they can ban you for using it so they created it I can abide by their wishes

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Basic ACT with no plugins isn't really giving you a tangible advantage over players.


Now add in the plugins like Cactbot or Triggernometry then yes, you get an advantage.

Most People in this Game claim they like Yoshi P. Yoshi P is the one who doesnt want people to use Addons/Mods/Plugins.

So instead of respecting the Choice of the man they apparently like, they slap him in the face by still doing it.

I really do hope they introduce a Anti Cheat software at some point with the words "you brought this unto yourselves"

Just some food for thought.

You login to the streamer server, just report & report & report & report.

w

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Asked about your claim, for proof, and I need to calm down? Ok. Gaslight me all you want. You’re being manipulative. Strawmanning.

So you can’t twist things

Gaslighting: claiming I’m not calm for asking about your strawman

Strawman: suggesting a person may be confusing act with other mods

Manipulating: both examples provided above plus leaving out example of mods that are clearly cheating in favour of less controversial ones

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I wouldnt even waste your time with him.He is one of those strange people that feels like no one else should post what they think or feel and thinks his opinion is the only one that matters. Some people treat this like Twitter. Its really strange.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

I wouldnt even waste your time with him.He is one of those strange people that feels like no one else should post what they think or feel and thinks his opinion is the only one that matters. Some people treat this like Twitter. Its really strange.

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Oh do shut up.

You don't see me trash talking crap like I know who you are in other threads, do you? The fun part is that you're not telling people why you got those answers, or the better part, that I was in no way the only one.

I'm still amazed that people are still talking about mod/addon/cheat on the forum, seems like some people really need a reminder of the user agreement.

2.1 Cheating and Botting.

You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

[...]

2.6 Hacking and Circumvention.

You may not hack, disassemble, decompile, or otherwise modify the Game or server computer code, whether the Game code is located on a DVD, Blu-rayTM disc, your computer/console or on Square Enix's servers, except as expressly permitted by Square Enix or applicable law.

2.7 Modifying or Creating Derivative Software.

You may not modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game or Service in any way not expressly authorized by Square Enix, and may not make any derivative works of the Game.

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When you play the game you accept those rules, meaning that if you ever do one of those action, you may be banned temporaly or permanently.

No matter if what you do harm other or not. The rules are here and Square Enix is the only entity that decide if you take the ban hammer.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

I'm still amazed that people are still talking about mod/addon/cheat on the forum, seems like some people really need a reminder of the user agreement.

2.1 Cheating and Botting.

You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

[...]

2.6 Hacking and Circumvention.

You may not hack, disassemble, decompile, or otherwise modify the Game or server computer code, whether the Game code is located on a DVD, Blu-rayTM disc, your computer/console or on Square Enix's servers, except as expressly permitted by Square Enix or applicable law.

2.7 Modifying or Creating Derivative Software.

You may not modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game or Service in any way not expressly authorized by Square Enix, and may not make any derivative works of the Game.

---------------------------------

When you play the game you accept those rules, meaning that if you ever do one of those action, you may be banned temporaly or permanently.

No matter if what you do harm other or not. The rules are here and Square Enix is the only entity that decide if you take the ban hammer.

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Does ACT even fall under any of those definitions? I thought strictly speaking all it does is read the combat log, and itself doesn't affect gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

Does ACT even fall under any of those definitions? I thought strictly speaking all it does is read the combat log, and itself doesn't affect gameplay.

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That's kinda a grey area in my opinion, cause you actually use information sended to the server in order to make it work. But you are right to say it doesn't do anything on gameplay itself. I won't recommend using it anyway cause it's a third party tool and SE bans you for using it if they are aware of it. (Like you trash someone for being bad on DPS and you explicitely says you know the numbers by using ACT ---> Ban).

But I think what SE really bans here is the "harassment" rather than the usage of ACT itself

Anyway, if you follow strictly the rules, you may not modifying the games or use "Third party software" for automation. So we can say that a ReShade or ACT are harmless on those point. But again, do not harass people by saying things you aren't able to see with a normal game.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

Does ACT even fall under any of those definitions? I thought strictly speaking all it does is read the combat log, and itself doesn't affect gameplay.

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In a way, ACT reads the server's information. It also does enable Cactbot which gives you call-outs based on said server-side information. It only reads it, though, but that's enough to have an impact on gameplay.

It's really loose, so I guess how one can make that reading, but you may also argue that it's not what's written there, so...
Which makes sense given how Square Enix might consider them a gray area. If they chose to do so, they could read it that way. But haven't in practice, because they aren't going after those tools, so it may be they don't read it that way.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

That's kinda a grey area in my opinion, cause you actually use information sended to the server in order to make it work. But you are right to say it doesn't do anything on gameplay itself. I won't recommend using it anyway cause it's a third party tool and SE bans you for using it if they are aware of it. (Like you trash someone for being bad on DPS and you explicitely says you know the numbers by using ACT ---> Ban).

But I think what SE really bans here is the "harassment" rather than the usage of ACT itself

Anyway, if you follow strictly the rules, you may not modifying the games or use "Third party software" for automation. So we can say that a ReShade or ACT are harmless on those point. But again, do not harass people by saying things you aren't able to see with a normal game.

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Yeah, I mean ACT would fall foul anyhow due to their general "no third party tools" position, I just didn't know enough about how ACT really works to figure out which of the above rules it violates.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

...Cactbot which gives you call-outs based on said server-side information.

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That's automation. It allows you to have an automatic call tool and that is prohibited.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

I wouldnt even waste your time with him.He is one of those strange people that feels like no one else should post what they think or feel and thinks his opinion is the only one that matters. Some people treat this like Twitter. Its really strange.

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Yeah I picked that up. I’d still rather speak out than not just so there’s opinions outside the echo chambers the forums usually devolve into. I don’t mean to be that person, but some people say ridiculous things or speak with such hyperbole that another opinion should exist

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

I don’t mean to be that person, but some people say ridiculous things or speak with such hyperbole that another opinion should exist

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Oh you're definitely one such person. Curious you think I belong in some weird echo chamber. Which is it, then? Go on, I'm waiting.

Unlike you, who apparently took the first person who hated on me to agree for absolutely no reason despite their argument being "I got told off in another thread and single-focused this guy for no good reason".

None of you know me, yet you're so keen on trash talking. Meanwhile you can't look at yourselves for self-criticism and blame others of doing so. It's sad, really. I may speak with hyperbole, but I'm not the only one. And you yourselves are certainly no saints at that either.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

I wouldnt even waste your time with him.He is one of those strange people that feels like no one else should post what they think or feel and thinks his opinion is the only one that matters. Some people treat this like Twitter. Its really strange.

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Funny considering your track record of saying you don't care about other peoples' opinions and basically telling anyone that disagrees with you to leave the forum. But I guess it's okay when YOU do it.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Yeah I picked that up. I’d still rather speak out than not just so there’s opinions outside the echo chambers the forums usually devolve into. I don’t mean to be that person, but some people say ridiculous things or speak with such hyperbole that another opinion should exist

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If you care so much about there not being an echo chamber it sure would be nice if you'd call out the people on your side who are doing literally the exact same thing you're accusing others of.

And before you agree with that other poster, you should probably look into why they are attacking Midareyukki in the first place. I promise you Midareyukki is not the issue here lmao.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Funny considering your track record of saying you don't care about other peoples' opinions and basically telling anyone that disagrees with you to leave the forum. But I guess it's okay when YOU do it.



If you care so much about there not being an echo chamber it sure would be nice if you'd call out the people on your side who are doing literally the exact same thing you're accusing others of.

And before you agree with that other poster, you should probably look into why they are attacking Midareyukki in the first place. I promise you Midareyukki is not the issue here lmao.

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In fairness I speak out about things I disagree with. I don’t have “a side”. If though, “my side” says something ridiculous, I’d speak up.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Oh you're definitely one such person. Curious you think I belong in some weird echo chamber. Which is it, then? Go on, I'm waiting.

Unlike you, who apparently took the first person who hated on me to agree for absolutely no reason despite their argument being "I got told off in another thread and single-focused this guy for no good reason".

None of you know me, yet you're so keen on trash talking. Meanwhile you can't look at yourselves for self-criticism and blame others of doing so. It's sad, really. I may speak with hyperbole, but I'm not the only one. And you yourselves are certainly no saints at that either.

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Clam down. You’re mad on a forum

How exactly does one clam down? I've heard of clamming up, but I was unaware of the existence of its opposite.

You guys are literally yelling right now.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You guys are literally yelling right now.

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That just made me think of Dragon Age.

"Wait! Why are we yelling!?"
"Because we're friends now!"
"Well then... Can we get off the roof now?"

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

That just made me think of Dragon Age.

"Wait! Why are we yelling!?"
"Because we're friends now!"
"Well then... Can we get off the roof now?"

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Actually more so of me making a Rin reference due to some recent static drama between healers

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

In fairness I speak out about things I disagree with. I don’t have “a side”. If though, “my side” says something ridiculous, I’d speak up.

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Okay, let me clarify: I have yet to see you call anyone on the anti-mod/anti-cheat side out for their hyperbolic/attacking/whatever posts, which they make *all the time*. Hence why I don't super believe you truly care about there not being an echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Okay, let me clarify: I have yet to see you call anyone on the anti-mod/anti-cheat side out for their hyperbolic/attacking/whatever posts, which they make *all the time*. Hence why I don't super believe you truly care about there not being an echo chamber.

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Well for what I’ve read 1 side is adamant it’s not cheating and it’s a grey area in the ToS. I disagree with that. The other side says it’s against the rules or it’s unfair to console user. I agree with that. My middle ground is I think there are things SE should add officially to the game like a parser as an example. My apologies if I haven’t seen the hyperbole on the anti mod side. It’s easier to ignore people who don’t stick out like a sore thumb. Are there any hyperbolic examples you can provide to raise my awareness in the future?


Edit: Actually at the top of page 7 at this very thread, I see that I asked about such hyperbole coming from "my side" but was not provided any because it ended up being a strawman argument. So while you say you have not seen it, I sure made an attempt.

[QUOTE=TabrisOmbrelame;6201212]


When you play the game you accept those rules, meaning that if you ever do one of those action, you may be banned temporaly or permanently. [/QUOTE]

It's crazy how you anti-mod people do not understand that everyone using mods accepts that they could get banned. Instead, you come to the official forums and complain about people modding their game while not affecting you. Not to mention the sad creatures actively going into modding discords and reporting everyone they see screenshots from.

If you'd really care about the rules, you would not try to harass others into reporting anyone they think could be using mods. But you don't really, you only want to feel good and put your imagined justice above everyone else.

Ehh. If you're going to make any kind of efforts against cheating, I would rather they ban botting instead of people that ruin their very own fun and no one else, since that's a cheat that actually hurts the overall game economy and everyone involved. The rest... couldn't care less. Wanna mod your game to the point you ruin the fun of the fight so you can feel good with the sparkly weapon? Do it. Wanna waste $500 bucks to AFK in Limsa with your brought clear weapon? Ok. Wanna make your character look like a Kardashian with big ass lips and hips? Eh. Kinda bad taste if you ask me, but go on.

If that's the price that some people gotta pay in order for others to actually have hats, fingers and QoL tweaks... By all means.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Well for what I’ve read 1 side is adamant it’s not cheating and it’s a grey area in the ToS. I disagree with that. The other side says it’s against the rules or it’s unfair to console user. I agree with that. My middle ground is I think there are things SE should add officially to the game like a parser as an example. My apologies if I haven’t seen the hyperbole on the anti mod side. It’s easier to ignore people who don’t stick out like a sore thumb. Are there any hyperbolic examples you can provide to raise my awareness in the future?

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Just gonna reiterate once again that console players are in fact able to make use of third-party tools and modifications. Yes, including parsing.

As for hyperbole? I feel like the continuous conflation of something like ACT with some dude that can zoom his camera clear to the Dark Inside from Omega's boss room would qualify. The repeated calls for banning of users that even so much as utilize FFlogs certainly also qualifies.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

That's automation. It allows you to have an automatic call tool and that is prohibited.

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As much as I despise Cactbot, having something warn you about upcoming mechanics isn't automation. Needing it means you're trash at the game, but it isn't automation - you still have to dodge the mechanic yourself. Automation would be using tools that play the game for you, essentially.

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Well for what I’ve read 1 side is adamant it’s not cheating and it’s a grey area in the ToS.

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It is cheating and there is no grey area. TOS says no addons. Full stop.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Okay, let me clarify: I have yet to see you call anyone on the anti-mod/anti-cheat side out for their hyperbolic/attacking/whatever posts, which they make *all the time*. Hence why I don't super believe you truly care about there not being an echo chamber.

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These people simply want to feel some weird sense of justice out of a video-game. That's why they waste energy trying to police everyone and demanding bans for stuff that doesn't affect them nor anyone else. Think that things like posing, re-shade, discord (yep!), making your character make-up (a fun creative experience), or using logs in order to make your gameplay better is the same as trying to get a trophy for world first with something that breaks down the fight, in the content that is basically for people that want to push themselves is ridiculous. It's a hollow, empty argument of people that want to be punitive and not discuss the matter in a productive way.

They have zero idea how normal this type of stuff is in every other game and want to place everything in the same basket. It's a tedious, simplistic view of the whole situation. Keep parroting ToS this, ToS that without truly considering the extent of the situation. At some point it's funny to read.

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Originally Posted by Shialan

It's crazy how you anti-mod people do not understand that everyone using mods accepts that they could get banned. Instead, you come to the official forums and complain about people modding their game while not affecting you. Not to mention the sad creatures actively going into modding discords and reporting everyone they see screenshots from.

If you'd really care about the rules, you would not try to harass others into reporting anyone they think could be using mods. But you don't really, you only want to feel good and put your imagined justice above everyone else.

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I don't think you actually read my post correctly. I didn't harass any mod user, but if a reminder to the rules of the game is being absolute anti-mod for you, you should probably read again what I said and what I didn't.

Also, I don't make "witch hunt" on who mod or who don't, I don't care. If you mod and you get banned that's your problem not mine.

Square Enix made rules for people to follow, if you want to break them, feel free to do so, but SE will be free to ban you if you broke those.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

As much as I despise Cactbot, having something warn you about upcoming mechanics isn't automation. Needing it means you're trash at the game, but it isn't automation - you still have to dodge the mechanic yourself. Automation would be using tools that play the game for you, essentially.

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I'm sorry, my English is still laking sometimes so "Automation" seems to be kind of strong word where I used it ? Sorry for the misunderstand.

What I meant was Cactbot is doing "Automatic call". You don't even have to look at the "cast bar". And I will strongly agree on those terms you said : "Needing it means you're trash at the game".

For me Cactbot allow you to turn off your brain in game. This will reduce the "challenge" enough to be called an unfair advantage against console player or people who don't use it.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

I'm sorry, my English is still laking sometimes so "Automation" seems to be kind of strong word where I used it ? Sorry for the misunderstand.

What I meant was Cactbot is doing "Automatic call". You don't even have to look at the "cast bar". And I will strongly agree on those terms you said : "Needing it means you're trash at the game".

For me Cactbot allow you to turn off your brain in game. This will reduce the "challenge" enough to be called an unfair advantage against console player or people who don't use it.

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Automation has always meant ONE specific thing in games : having a program automate actions in game. Cactbot doesn't control your character for you, it is not "automation". Bot programs fall under automation for instance.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

As much as I despise Cactbot, having something warn you about upcoming mechanics isn't automation. Needing it means you're trash at the game, but it isn't automation - you still have to dodge the mechanic yourself. Automation would be using tools that play the game for you, essentially.

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I still feel as though cactbot is pushing it as it’s pc only and eliminates human error.
But I agree with you on act and I advocate for it. I haven’t seen anyone conflate it with something else though

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

Automation has always meant ONE specific thing in games : having a program automate actions in game. Cactbot doesn't control your character for you, it is not "automation". Bot programs fall under automation for instance.

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This. Basically:

Cactbot does automate call-outs, but it's no different than having your raid leader tell you what's coming up or where to go. Some features are indeed personal, as they tell you where to go based on what marker you have, but those are specific mechanics. From what I've seen, it often just says "Hey, X mechanic is coming up. Do it." and you still need to kind of know what's going on and where to go. But it doesn't resolve the mechanic for you in its entirety, you still need to know how to do it.

Similarly, ACT automates the collection and organization of data into readable charts instantly. This is information you can get already by logging in your Battle chat, but that'd be way too tedious and you'd need a fair bit of automation on Excel as it is to even get through it.

True full automation to the point where it's considered full-on-can't-even-deny-this-is-cheating would be what bots do. Where they automate their movements with no input from you and seamlessly clear fights.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

What I meant was Cactbot is doing "Automatic call". You don't even have to look at the "cast bar". And I will strongly agree on those terms you said : "Needing it means you're trash at the game".

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Yes. You do still need to learn the fight, obviously, but having something be so accurate, so personal and telling you what the fight is doing does indeed mean you're not that great at the game.

But I don't think the people playing the game with Cactbot on care to be seen as good :p

Can you argue that they don't deserve the rewards? Yes. But, and honest question here, it's just stuff in a videogame. Do they really matter?

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

For me Cactbot allow you to turn off your brain in game. This will reduce the "challenge" enough to be called an unfair advantage against console player or people who don't use it.

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Everything is an unfair advantage against console players :p Legacy Controls vs Standard Controls can even be seen as one in very, very niche cases, for example.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

This. Basically:

Cactbot does automate call-outs, but it's no different than having your raid leader tell you what's coming up or where to go. Some features are indeed personal, as they tell you where to go based on what marker you have, but those are specific mechanics. From what I've seen, it often just says "Hey, X mechanic is coming up. Do it." and you still need to kind of know what's going on and where to go. But it doesn't resolve the mechanic for you in its entirety, you still need to know how to do it.

Similarly, ACT automates the collection and organization of data into readable charts instantly. This is information you can get already by logging in your Battle chat, but that'd be way too tedious and you'd need a fair bit of automation on Excel as it is to even get through it.

True full automation to the point where it's considered full-on-can't-even-deny-this-is-cheating would be what bots do. Where they automate their movements with no input from you and seamlessly clear fights.



Yes. You do still need to learn the fight, obviously, but having something be so accurate, so personal and telling you what the fight is doing does indeed mean you're not that great at the game.

But I don't think the people playing the game with Cactbot on care to be seen as good :p

Can you argue that they don't deserve the rewards? Yes. But, and honest question here, it's just stuff in a videogame. Do they really matter?



Everything is an unfair advantage against console players :p Legacy Controls vs Standard Controls can even be seen as one in very, very niche cases, for example.

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I disagree on a couple things relating to Cact. If we're going to be honest:

- I wouldn't necessarily call it the same as having a raid leader do callouts because of the speed at which Cact gives you information. I used to have a raid lead that switched to using Cact for callouts because it would tell him what to say/do faster than he would be able to without it.

- Needing to know mechs is debatable and really depends on what youre doing. Taking a fight like P1S for example, it tells you everything. You don't need to know any mechs outside of basic common sense for what the words: inside, outside, left, right, etc. mean. For the pizza slice section, it tells you which one is safe and where to stand. Again, information came from old raid lead of mine.