The Official Forums is an EXTREMELY poor example of a "Good Community"

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Because you can't say anything in game, not even "turn your stance on please" because it may get your account suspended for "bad behavior"

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Did something like that really happen? That is so dumb if true. It shouldn't be that way at all.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Did something like that really happen? That is so dumb if true. It shouldn't be that way at all.

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Let's see.. under the ToS doing that should fall under prohibited activities... yes, right here:

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Expressions that compel a playing style

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:)

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Let's see.. under the ToS doing that should fall under prohibited activities... yes, right here:



:)

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But wouldn't that also take into the account the tank not turning on their stance compelling the rest of the group to be compelled to their playing style?

As someone who worked in the gaming industry and had to moderate (F2P shooters!) forums, this place is PARADISE!

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Originally Posted by Avatre

But wouldn't that also take into the account the tank not turning on their stance compelling the rest of the group to be compelled to their playing style?

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Can't prove intent. Could be a new/learning player.

I've been off and on these forums since 2013 have seen both the good side and the bad side and have a been a part of both as well. One of the main problems is we're not allowed to actually act like a community as deviating from discussing anything other than the game is a bannable offense so it is difficult to build up any camaraderie, though not impossible.

There was a time in the wee era of 2019 when the community came together and had a grand old time on a troll thread someone had started to try and smear their FC mates for whatever reason. What happened after was otterly amazing. It was the perfect example of what a community should be. That is until we all got suspended....

Long live #ottergate

Like the poster above me, I've been around for a bit (long live the non-forum lodestone that google still for some reason suggests to me....). I do post every once in a while when I think I might have a decent idea that may be a helpful suggestion. I also post in support to some areas that I believe the dev team should definitely focus on (Viera hats.........). However, for the most part, I never come here. I noticed the extreme hatefulness of these forums, not just towards each other, but also towards the game as well. The game isn't perfect and should be criticized. Ideas should be shared and suggestions should definitely be given, but I just got exhausted with the extremity of what users were posting. I'm definitely clutching my pearls lol.

I just gave up and stopped coming. I've had WAY more fun with the game by going to ffxiv reddit. I can enjoy some funny memes, get some cool news posted, and do whatever I can to avoid the dozens of fan art that gets reposted LOL @.@ (I still check them out for the most part XD).

Just take a break from the forums OP. You'll quickly notice a far more positive experience with the game in general. :)

Didn't read through all the posts but imo this feels like the only place one can be critical and have heated discussions in this game. Try it in NN or FC chats and you get dogged on by multiple people about how you need to be more positive and any criticism against the game is wrong. How you're the problem just because you aren't dedicating your life to worshipping some of the main Scions. Things of that nature.

I enjoy how people really aren't afraid to be themselves here, even if it causes arguments. I'd rather have honest arguments than lie and agree out of fear of being ostracized by your in game community.

After being hit with a demeaning and all-too-common racial stereotype after mentioning my race and gender on here and that post being upvoted I realized this place and the people here aren’t the greatest.

I also admit Ive gotten real heated here before. And now at this point I maintain a distance and glance at the occasional thread. But I keep interactions to a minimum. It’s done wonders.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

5 times 0 is still 0.

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this is why you are a national treasure

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Didn't read through all the posts but imo this feels like the only place one can be critical and have heated discussions in this game. Try it in NN or FC chats and you get dogged on by multiple people about how you need to be more positive and any criticism against the game is wrong. How you're the problem just because you aren't dedicating your life to worshipping some of the main Scions. Things of that nature.

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Try this on the official forum on some other games and the Moderators delete posts, warn (or even ban, depending on what was said and how it was said) the person who made the comments, and lock the thread. Seriously - some official forums have absolutely NO tolerance whatsoever toward negative commentary about the game they represent.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Try this on the official forum on some other games and the Moderators delete posts, warn (or even ban, depending on what was said and how it was said) the person who made the comments, and lock the thread. Seriously - some official forums have absolutely NO tolerance whatsoever toward negative commentary about the game they represent.

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I was suspended on the Lost Ark forums, because I criticized how the moderation was deleting everyone's threads. We couldn't even have a dedicated outfit thread. Pretty much if people over there wanted a thread shutdown, at the time, they would troll in the thread, and the mods would just delete the thread entirely.

Just remember, this is the same place someone got jumped for daring to suggest a jump button might be a good idea to add to the game, that's all you really need to know.

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Originally Posted by DezereDawn

Just remember, this is the same place someone got jumped for daring to suggest a jump button might be a good idea to add to the game, that's all you really need to know.

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"Got jumped"

Did you just intentionally do that?

The problem this forum has (or the benefit, depending on how much you enjoy forum drama) is a lack of good moderation. People can just throw around most nonsense and generally not get punished for it by moderation. Some particularly inept trolls will sometimes get their posts deleted aswell as the occasional heated gamer moments. Now as some other people in this thread have pointed out that active moderation doesnt automatically equal good moderation. Good moderation is hard, you need enough people qualified to account for the many posts and you need to have very qualified people able to distinguish which parts of a post are productive to discussion and which arent.

This thread existing is an example of a lack of moderation. Nothing constructive can come from meta discussions and in a well moderated forum they would be thrown out immediately.

It's the internet, who cares, lol. Besides, the people actually playing tend to be nicer than here simply because no one really cares if your forum account gets Kaiten'd, their service account on xiv on the other hand...

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Originally Posted by Saraide

The problem this forum has (or the benefit, depending on how much you enjoy forum drama) is a lack of good moderation. People can just throw around most nonsense and generally not get punished for it by moderation. Some particularly inept trolls will sometimes get their posts deleted aswell as the occasional heated gamer moments. Now as some other people in this thread have pointed out that active moderation doesnt automatically equal good moderation. Good moderation is hard, you need enough people qualified to account for the many posts and you need to have very qualified people able to distinguish which parts of a post are productive to discussion and which arent.

This thread existing is an example of a lack of moderation. Nothing constructive can come from meta discussions and in a well moderated forum they would be thrown out immediately.

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I think its just the fact that they dont want to overly police the people here just like they dont actively hunt down addon users because its not in their interest to antagonize their playerbase, unless they have to.

Ive seen some moderation with the posts though especially ones where people directly insult other users even if the insults use tame words such as "nimrod". I say this from experience because I called somebody that but apparently that was too offensive for the forums so they temp suspended me for it lol.

But yeah the mods do listen to these threads though, just not interact with the community.

TL ; DR

OP, sees trolls trolling, mistakes them for the normal members of the forum.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

"Got jumped"

Did you just intentionally do that?

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actually... i didn't, but jesus christ lmao

It's certainly not a good community on here by any stretch of the imagination, but then I generally don't expect anything too grand on a general forum discussion page.

That said, many of these issues do stem from a multitude of factors:

- Many people have many different opinions, and people cannot handle a difference of opinion too well, and this is exhibited in a variety of ways, be it personal insults or passive-aggressive attitude, or just a general pointless and sarcastic monologue. <- The proverb - Treat people how you wish to be treated - exacerbates this point very clearly, and some people find themselves fairly incapable of self-reflection to actually see when they are being obnoxious.

- This forum is supposed to be a place for feedback, the unfortunate circumstance is many of these issues are left to fester for too long, but then generally speaking refinement and immediate addressing of concerns is not a quick process. Extending from this, the developers and some players, potentially many players on this forum have a different philosophy behind what the game should be, and thus problems that do fester also are not addressed because they don't align with said goals. <- People also don't like this, but then a larger part of this, until very recent the developers haven't expressly stated the reasoning for certain changes or directions. < - This whole paragraph leads to people posting and responding to counterpoints in the most abrupt way possible. Not warranted, but understandable.

- A lack of proper, or rapid moderation means that people take the full course of advantages that come with being on the internet (e.g., the internet is largely anonymous for most people so they can express themselves without restraint, moreso when proper moderation isn't taken)

- In general, there is a lot of immaturities on the forums, and this is from people who may otherwise consider themselves mature.

I think it's a given that all official game forums that are hosted by the gaming devs/company themselves will be absolute hellholes.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

- Many people have many different opinions, and people cannot handle a difference of opinion too well, and this is exhibited in a variety of ways, be it personal insults or passive-aggressive attitude, or just a general pointless and sarcastic monologue.

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So if I dont like someone's opinion it gives me the justification to be a jerk because that is how some people want to "express" themselves? Sweet.

I do agree with your points though.

Most of those threads just go on for too long. It usually goes
1 - person suggests something
2 - people give good counter arguments
3 - OP or people with their opinion respond back
4 - back and forth for a few rounds
5 - people get bored and start to get more and more hyperbolic because why not? no one is changing their mind
6 - it devolves into trolling.

like most forums once the trolling starts, it's too fun to stop. That's why we have a 100+ page thread about dps meters, it's too fun for people to get firemage to reply again and again and bait him over and over.
if you want serious discussion, interact with about the first 5-10 pages of a thread then ignore it.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

I think a lot of the "angry" takes are because people feel like they aren't heard.

There's been a lot of feedback on multiple things over years, but the english community seems to be sidelined most of the time and getting very little aknowledgement for things they bring up.

This leads to a loop of frustration and eventually people just shouting into void.

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Its not even just the english community, the forums as a whole feel abandoned. In ye olden days every language would get occasional responses from a mod, community rep member, or sometimes even devs, but radio silence is the norm now.

It doesn't help that the amount of player to dev Q&As has dropped over the last few years due to covid. Yelling into the void is a pretty apt description.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Because you can't say anything in game, not even "turn your stance on please" because it may get your account suspended for "bad behavior" and reddit it's full of fake "PMA".

Twitter it's the worst place so far the amount of whiteknights protecting with their lives every single decision of SE is stunning.

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Twitter is the worst because people will sit there and dox others while at the same time acting self-righteous. If you do something that a lot of FFXIV twitter users don't like then they immediately try to dig up whatever they can on you, as if you gave them a right to.

Don't get me wrong, some of the stuff people on there complain about is horrible, but that doesn't make it right to attempt to dox said person for their behavior.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

After being hit with a demeaning and all-too-common racial stereotype after mentioning my race and gender on here and that post being upvoted I realized this place and the people here aren’t the greatest.

I also admit Ive gotten real heated here before. And now at this point I maintain a distance and glance at the occasional thread. But I keep interactions to a minimum. It’s done wonders.

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I wonder why you would bring it up as those things should hold zero relevance in a gaming forum.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

I wonder why you would bring it up as those things should hold zero relevance in a gaming forum.

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The thread was about ethnic hair styles. I make characters that look like me. I interact with fellow POC’s that want the same thing for their characters.

So me being black = me wanting black hairstyles.

You may think you did something there but you rly didn’t.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

The thread was about ethnic hair styles. I make characters that look like me. I interact with fellow POC’s that want the same thing for their characters.

So me being black = me wanting black hairstyles.

You may think you did something there but you rly didn’t.

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No. Didn’t think I did a thing. Just didn’t see the relevance of real life race or gender on a gaming forum. Now you’ve explained the context and still, not necessarily relevant.

I was always told not to share personal information with strangers. Don’t be surprised when it comes back to bite you in the end

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

The thread was about ethnic hair styles. I make characters that look like me. I interact with fellow POC’s that want the same thing for their characters.

So me being black = me wanting black hairstyles.

You may think you did something there but you rly didn’t.

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I'm pretty sure they weren't going for some kind of "gotcha" moment as that is a legitimate question. This an internet forums. We're all of us anonymous and as such things like our age, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc are irrelevent. Choosing to willfully surrender that information opens up the possibility of what you experienced, hence the reason for the anonymity.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Its not even just the english community, the forums as a whole feel abandoned. In ye olden days every language would get occasional responses from a mod, community rep member, or sometimes even devs, but radio silence is the norm now.

It doesn't help that the amount of player to dev Q&As has dropped over the last few years due to covid. Yelling into the void is a pretty apt description.

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This basically.

The community moderators only ever step in to remove a post, they don't talk or communicate in any way with the player base.

Its the same downhill road that Blizzard went down, and its a path of no return.

They need to step off twitter/reddit/other forums and focus on their OFFICIAL forums.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I'm pretty sure they weren't going for some kind of "gotcha" moment as that is a legitimate question. This an internet forums. We're all of us anonymous and as such things like our age, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc are irrelevent. Choosing to willfully surrender that information opens up the possibility of what you experienced, hence the reason for the anonymity.

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It’s the fact that people are genuinely offended by that information - ethnic person asking for ethnic hairstyles - is what’s causing my eyes to roll.

But it proves my point that this community ain’t all that.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Now you’ve explained the context and still, not necessarily relevant.

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Uh huh. Sure.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

It’s the fact that people are genuinely offended by that information - ethnic person asking for ethnic hairstyles - is what’s causing my eyes to roll.

But it proves my point that this community ain’t all that.

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Idk. I’m not even sure if the thread you’re referring to. Probably happened when I took a year away. However, from my observations, the general population is open to more options. Especially when it comes to customization.

I don’t know what happened. What you said vs what they said do I won’t comment further on that particular bit. But I will advise you to protect yourself by securing your personal life. The less you give the less they have

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Idk. I’m not even sure if the thread you’re referring to. Probably happened when I took a year away. However, from my observations, the general population is open to more options. Especially when it comes to customization.

I don’t know what happened. What you said vs what they said do I won’t comment further on that particular bit. But I will advise you to protect yourself by securing your personal life. The less you give the less they have

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Advice not taken. Ty.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

Advice not taken. Ty.

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Starting to think people weren't attacking you based on the information given but rather the way you present yourself.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Twitter is the worst because people will sit there and dox others while at the same time acting self-righteous. If you do something that a lot of FFXIV twitter users don't like then they immediately try to dig up whatever they can on you, as if you gave them a right to.

Don't get me wrong, some of the stuff people on there complain about is horrible, but that doesn't make it right to attempt to dox said person for their behavior.

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It really does stink that the devs are doubling down on the twitter mob. You can't even enter an xiv contest without having a twitter account which is depressing considering they used the official forums during the HW days. I don't even bother with SE contests anymore because of that. :/

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Starting to think people weren't attacking you based on the information given but rather the way you present yourself.

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* shrug *

Eh. Can't please everyone.

And I'm not exactly a people pleaser.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

It’s the fact that people are genuinely offended by that information - ethnic person asking for ethnic hairstyles - is what’s causing my eyes to roll.

But it proves my point that this community ain’t all that.



Uh huh. Sure.

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So you're using one instance to paint an entire group? There's always going to be bad apples in any group, but that's no excuse to paint everybody with the same brush.

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Originally Posted by Joven

So you're using one instance to paint an entire group? There's always going to be bad apples in any group, but that's no excuse to paint everybody with the same brush.

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Here's my perspective overall after being active here the previous year.

General Forums is a more realistic version of the FFXIV community.

Here people don't really have to be overly kindly. And can be blunt about how they may or may not feel.

As someone who Raids, FC's, Discord Chats, Twitters and so on - I do standby the opinion that the community ain't all that.

There are genuinely great people both on here and out of it.

But General Forums, due to the lack of moderation, is a bit of a congealed pit of negative emotions that just boil together.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

Here's my perspective overall after being active here the previous year.

General Forums is a more realistic version of the FFXIV community.

Here people don't really have to be overly kindly. And can be blunt about how they may or may not feel.

As someone who Raids, FC's, Discord Chats, Twitters and so on - I do standby the opinion that the community ain't all that.

There are genuinely great people both on here and out of it.

But General Forums, due to the lack of moderation, is a bit of a congealed pit of negative emotions that just boil together.

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Based on your responses you have an overly aggressive attitude and people tend to respond negatively towards that.

That being said: the forums here are a very small fraction of the playerbase. Not a good metric to base assumptions on.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Based on your responses you have an overly aggressive attitude and people tend to respond negatively towards that.

That being said: the forums here are a very small fraction of the playerbase. Not a good metric to base assumptions on.

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And?

I'm not about to change my entire personality to appeal to folks on these forums.

Like you said, they're a very small fraction. And seeing as my social life in-game is absolutely thriving I'm doing just fine.