Respect the pull timer.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

I also kick puppies.

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Nah. I don't believe that for a second.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

But someone did ask for it. Hence why you have a pull timer to begin with. Someone had to initiate it.
So really what your saying here is I don't respect whoever decided they wanted a pull timer.

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No, you're just bad at thinking of a reply. :)

If you politely ask for a timer and people say sure, great. If you instantly start a timer without consulting anyone, you have failed at communicating. That is how humans communicate. Someone talks, someone listens. Instantly starting a pull timer without asking anyone is not comparable to asking for a pull timer using the chat features.

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Originally Posted by Impishwerth

No, you're just bad at thinking of a reply. :)

If you politely ask for a timer and people say sure, great. If you instantly start a timer without consulting anyone, you have failed at communicating. That is how humans communicate. Someone talks, someone listens. Instantly starting a pull timer without asking anyone is not comparable to asking for a pull timer using the chat features.

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Under that line of thought, wouldn't that require you to ask the group if anyone needs a pull timer instead of just hitting that gap closer and not communicating :think:

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Under that line of thought, wouldn't that require you to ask the group if anyone needs a pull timer instead of just hitting that gap closer and not communicating :think:

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No. If someone has a special need, they should speak up. Expecting others to ask if they need to cater to the person is that person's overactive ego at work making them feel like others exist only to serve them. People are joining the party to get a kill, not to flatter someone's ego.

If someone wants a pull timer for the sake of a parse and they're doing it outside of their static, then they should create a PF and put that in the description so others will know what to expect and can avoid the party if that's not their style. There are plenty of parse hungry players out there (or who don't care one way or the other) to get the group filled.

Unless everyone in the party being spot on with their opener timed to the pull is going to shave more off the kill time than the amount of time spent on the pull timer, the pull timer is a waste of the party's time. I'm sure someone out there who loves the theorycrafting can run up numbers that would demonstrate if adding a pull timer of 15-30 seconds so openers line up will end up reducing the kill time by more than 15-30 seconds.

If it's not reducing the total time spent, what was the point?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No. If someone has a special need, they should speak up. Expecting others to ask if they need to cater to the person is that person's overactive ego at work making them feel like others exist only to serve them. People are joining the party to get a kill, not to flatter someone's ego.

If someone wants a pull timer for the sake of a parse and they're doing it outside of their static, then they should create a PF and put that in the description so others will know what to expect and can avoid the party if that's not their style. There are plenty of parse hungry players out there (or who don't care one way or the other) to get the group filled.

Unless everyone in the party being spot on with their opener timed to the pull is going to shave more off the kill time than the amount of time spent on the pull timer, the pull timer is a waste of the party's time. I'm sure someone out there who loves the theorycrafting can run up numbers that would demonstrate if adding a pull timer of 15-30 seconds so openers line up will end up reducing the kill time by more than 15-30 seconds.

If it's not reducing the total time spent, what was the point?

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What does a pull timer have to do with parsing?
Is playing optimally automatically considered parsing?

It's fine if you don't care about your personal gameplay enough to actually play a job properly, but some people do. To some people that's where the fun part of combat in this game is.

Denying them the ability to play the game as intended just because somebody does not want to wait, would be considered very impolite.

It's really just a regional thing, NA players don't seem to care about other players gameplay, and are incredibly selfish about their own time. Big difference from JP.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

What does a pull timer have to do with parsing?
Is playing optimally automatically considered parsing?

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If someone has already pulled, and you sit there doing nothing because there is still 12s left on the timer, you are not playing optimally.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

If someone has already pulled, and you sit there doing nothing because there is still 12s left on the timer, you are not playing optimally.

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This person has no logic so no point telling them that. She just wants people to play how she wants in DF in non-savage/ultimate content with randoms. Good luck to that though as she will see that isn’t going to happen.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

What does a pull timer have to do with parsing?
Is playing optimally automatically considered parsing?

It's fine if you don't care about your personal gameplay enough to actually play a job properly, but some people do. To some people that's where the fun part of combat in this game is.

Denying them the ability to play the game as intended just because somebody does not want to wait, would be considered very impolite.

It's really just a regional thing, NA players don't seem to care about other players gameplay, and are incredibly selfish about their own time. Big difference from JP.

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NA players care but most will want someone who has an issue to speak up for themselves rather than assume someone else is going to cater to them without saying anything. If someone specifically asks for a timer, I hardly see anyone complain (unless it's in 24 man content because good luck controlling that herd of people to your expectations). What we don't do is set pull timers automatically for every piece of content without anyone talking about it first. You have to communicate in NA, not make assumptions that everyone is on the same wavelength as you. If you need something, speak up. Otherwise expect to not be catered to. None of us are mind readers.

Also, you chose to come to NA and therefore need to adjust to how we do things. I'm sorry if that's blunt but it's the truth and it would be the same of an NA player went to JP or EU. We would be expected to adjust to how things are done in those DCs. If you think we're all selfish and have complaints then feel free to consider your option of returning to JP. I'm confused why you left to be honest since your ideals and style seem to align with them more than us.

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Originally Posted by Impishwerth

No, you're just bad at thinking of a reply. :)

If you politely ask for a timer and people say sure, great. If you instantly start a timer without consulting anyone, you have failed at communicating. That is how humans communicate. Someone talks, someone listens. Instantly starting a pull timer without asking anyone is not comparable to asking for a pull timer using the chat features.

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This would be true if this wasn't a console game as well. Not everyone has access to a keyboard. So in those cases yes, starting the timer is asking.

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Originally Posted by Impishwerth

No, you're just bad at thinking of a reply. :)

If you politely ask for a timer and people say sure, great. If you instantly start a timer without consulting anyone, you have failed at communicating. That is how humans communicate. Someone talks, someone listens. Instantly starting a pull timer without asking anyone is not comparable to asking for a pull timer using the chat features.

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and if you insta pull as soon as the gate drops, you've also failed at communicating, what's your point?

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

This would be true if this wasn't a console game as well. Not everyone has access to a keyboard. So in those cases yes, starting the timer is asking.

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If typing is an issue for console players then a macro they can push at the start of whatever it is they're running would solve that issue. Set it up to post it into party or alliance chat and ask for a timer. If they get ignored then that's an entirely different issue but saying they're at a disadvantage is false since there is a way for them to quickly convey what they need. Just requires a smidge bit more effort.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

If typing is an issue for console players then a macro they can push at the start of whatever it is they're running would solve that issue. Set it up to post it into party or alliance chat and ask for a timer. If they get ignored then that's an entirely different issue but saying they're at a disadvantage is false since there is a way for them to quickly convey what they need. Just requires a smidge bit more effort.

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While this is true, a whole lot of players don't use macros or even know they exist since the game doesn't really teach it to you.
It's way easier to just respect the pull timers when they are used. Or don't, honestly it's up to you guys.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

This would be true if this wasn't a console game as well. Not everyone has access to a keyboard. So in those cases yes, starting the timer is asking.

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Starting a 15 second timer when I need at least 17 seconds for my opener is not asking, it's telling me I won't get to do my opener correctly and build the right kind of muscle memory. The same goes for other jobs who need a longer timer, or when the tank fails even harder and sets only a 5 second timer. They can ask people to respect their pull timer when they learn to do their job correctly.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

It doesn't matter what boss fight you are doing.

If somebody starts a pull timer, Respect it.

Some people like to optimize rotations, waiting 15 seconds for the tank to pull isn't going to kill you. Pulling before the tank certainly will.

Dungeons? Go ahead, bring the trash to me, ill tank it.

But if your going to prepull in a raid/trial, i can, and will, let you die.

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15 sec per boss for content that you rush 30x for gear or glam, that's still 22min lost.

And who still uses calls and timers on easy content except maybe after a wype.

On Ex or Savage, I want to, but on normal content. We don't have the time!

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Starting a 15 second timer when I need at least 17 seconds for my opener is not asking, it's telling me I won't get to do my opener correctly and build the right kind of muscle memory. The same goes for other jobs who need a longer timer, or when the tank fails even harder and sets only a 5 second timer. They can ask people to respect their pull timer when they learn to do their job correctly.

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If it's not extreme/savage/ultimate, does it matter if your 2 seconds off?
Also, if you can't do your full opener, do you just insta pull and ignore your whole opener then? if you want the opener you would be waiting anyways.

Sorry if this has been said before by someone.
In dungeon, alliance raid or normal raid you can ask all you want but if I am tanking you wont get a timer.
To be honest i very very rarely see anyone else put up a timer either. So i dont think its an issue that a lot of people are bothered by

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

[...]It's really just a regional thing, NA players don't seem to care about other players gameplay, and are incredibly selfish about their own time. Big difference from JP.

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If you happened to be paired with people who wants a timer or heads up before pulling, then they will not do anything until the designated MT pulls.
If you happened to be paired with people who want to go faster, then early pull is pretty much expected.

In the end, majority wins. Just gotta read the room better.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

While this is true, a whole lot of players don't use macros or even know they exist since the game doesn't really teach it to you.
It's way easier to just respect the pull timers when they are used. Or don't, honestly it's up to you guys.

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As a console player it doesn’t take much to type “rdy”. Pull timers are completely unnecessary in any content that doesn’t have an enrage timer

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

This would be true if this wasn't a console game as well. Not everyone has access to a keyboard. So in those cases yes, starting the timer is asking.

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It takes $20 to buy a USB keyboard to hook up to the console. Heck, you can probably find a cheaper one if you wanted, or go to an IT department where you work/go to school and see if they have any spares that you can have. Sometimes they will gladly give you a spare keyboard that is just sitting around cluttering up the space.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

This would be true if this wasn't a console game as well. Not everyone has access to a keyboard. So in those cases yes, starting the timer is asking.

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I'm of the opinion that if anyone is playing an MMORPG like FF XIV on a console, then a keyboard is a must. There is no good reason not to have one. And keyboards are really, really cheap. I do realize that everyone's financial situation is different, however, but I still feel strongly about my opinion here.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'm of the opinion that if anyone is playing an MMORPG like FF XIV on a console, then a keyboard is a must. There is no good reason not to have one. And keyboards are really, really cheap.

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Considering the game devs are working to make the game more solo friendly, I don't think the normal MMO mindset is the same here.
Also some people don't have spare money to put on a keyboard (before someone says it's a sub game, there's still the free trial).

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

Considering the game devs are working to make the game more solo friendly, I don't think the normal MMO mindset is the same here.
Also some people don't have spare money to put on a keyboard (before someone says it's a sub game, there's still the free trial).

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This mindset applies exactly the same, since not all elements of the game are solo friendly. Again, I get the financial part, but I still think that a keyboard is a must.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

If it's not extreme/savage/ultimate, does it matter if your 2 seconds off?
Also, if you can't do your full opener, do you just insta pull and ignore your whole opener then? if you want the opener you would be waiting anyways.

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If my rotation being off doesn't matter, it doesn't matter that the tank's rotation is off. They can suck it up and gap close to the already pulled boss. Or learn to set the pull timer correctly.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This mindset applies exactly the same, since not all elements of the game are solo friendly. Again, I get the financial part, but I still think that a keyboard is a must.

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Oh yeah for the record I do agree that keyboards are better for communication. This was just an example why pull timers can be used as a means of communication for those without one.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

Oh yeah for the record I do agree that keyboards are better for communication. This was just an example why pull timers can be used as a means of communication for those without one.

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Fair enough.

Get over yourself.

Don't worry about me, I didn't expect casuals to understand my tendency to override timers.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This mindset applies exactly the same, since not all elements of the game are solo friendly. Again, I get the financial part, but I still think that a keyboard is a must.

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Not everyone who plays is here to be social. Don’t need a keyboard to run dungeons. It’s a game first with social elements second

I do a 10 second pull timer as a courtesy to my group, nothing more. If someone pulls before it's up, I tomahawk and move on with life.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Not everyone who plays is here to be social. Don’t need a keyboard to run dungeons. It’s a game first with social elements second

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Okay, but it's still an MMO. I'd still recommend a keyboard. Other players can and probably will try to communicate with them at some point for some reason or another. This could lead to a lot of tension or potentially being removed from a party if they don't have a way to respond.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

It doesn't matter what boss fight you are doing.

If somebody starts a pull timer, Respect it.

Some people like to optimize rotations, waiting 15 seconds for the tank to pull isn't going to kill you. Pulling before the tank certainly will.

Dungeons? Go ahead, bring the trash to me, ill tank it.

But if your going to prepull in a raid/trial when there is an active pull timer, then your only griefing yourself.

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Pull timer, what? We have become too nitpicky nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Okay, but it's still an MMO. I'd still recommend a keyboard. Other players can and probably will try to communicate with them at some point for some reason or another. This could lead to a lot of tension or potentially being removed from a party if they don't have a way to respond.

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Removed for what exactly? Not talking isn’t equivalent to not participating. Nor is it trolling, harassment or any of the valid reasons to be removed from a duty. They simply aren’t being socially responsive via text.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Removed for what exactly? Not talking isn’t equivalent to not participating. Nor is it trolling, harassment or any of the valid reasons to be removed from a duty. They simply aren’t being socially responsive via text.

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Not talking can lead to the perception of trolling / not participating. I have personally removed players for not communicating. They make a mistake ask if everything is okay, no response and it is after 5min I indicate a kick.

No matter how you want to cut it, sure devs are trying to make the game Solo l, but once you queue and start content with others. That Solo experience is no longer in play, you have entered the realm of the social/group aspect where communicating is part of that.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Not talking can lead to the perception of trolling / not participating. I have personally removed players for not communicating. They make a mistake ask if everything is okay, no response and it is after 5min I indicate a kick.

No matter how you want to cut it, sure devs are trying to make the game Solo l, but once you queue and start content with others. That Solo experience is no longer in play, you have entered the realm of the social/group aspect where communicating is part of that.

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Exactly. Communication is everything.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Not talking can lead to the perception of trolling / not participating. I have personally removed players for not communicating. They make a mistake ask if everything is okay, no response and it is after 5min I indicate a kick.

No matter how you want to cut it, sure devs are trying to make the game Solo l, but once you queue and start content with others. That Solo experience is no longer in play, you have entered the realm of the social/group aspect where communicating is part of that.

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So, because someone made a mistake but didn't verbally acknowledge you explaining their mistake, they are automatically perceived as a troll and deserve to be kicked? Not talking does not mean you are not playing. Saying someone has to respond to you or they get kicked is not only extremely rude but also very entitled.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

So, because someone made a mistake but didn't verbally acknowledge you explaining their mistake, they are automatically perceived as a troll and deserve to be kicked? Not talking does not mean you are not playing. Saying someone has to respond to you or they get kicked is not only extremely rude but also very entitled.

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Yeah, the circumstances they described aren't really something I support, but the logic still applies if there are other various issues within the party. For example, if someone is performing mechanics incorrectly and holding back the group, an acknowledgement from the person in question is beneficial for everyone, especially themselves. The rest of the group won't know how to help them if they do not respond to anything.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

So, because someone made a mistake but didn't verbally acknowledge you explaining their mistake, they are automatically perceived as a troll and deserve to be kicked? Not talking does not mean you are not playing. Saying someone has to respond to you or they get kicked is not only extremely rude but also very entitled.

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What should I have done? I asked if everything was okay, without a response how should I have approached assumed everything was fine, and run the risk of another wipe? That single assumption ends up costing rest of the group time. If they needed help understanding the instance or their role if they spoke up we would gladly helped. Without speaking up I will simply assume the worse and seek a replacement.

Sorry not a mind reader, if one does not openly explain their issues I will make my own assumptions based off my past experiences. Not like I did nor give them a chance to say something, it is not like it is impossible to type out a response on console. They easily could have typed out something as they were tanking the floor.

What is entitled is thinking someone is free to waste time of others in a group because they refuse to usebthe jank system or are unable to get a simply a cheap 15 buck keyboard on Amazon. Before you say what if they cannot afford 15 bucks. Then I would argue if 15 bucks breaks your bank maybe this is not the hobby for you.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

So, because someone made a mistake but didn't verbally acknowledge you explaining their mistake, they are automatically perceived as a troll and deserve to be kicked? Not talking does not mean you are not playing. Saying someone has to respond to you or they get kicked is not only extremely rude but also very entitled.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

What should I have done? I asked if everything was okay, without a response how should I have approached assumed everything was fine, and run the risk of another wipe? That single assumption ends up costing rest of the group time. If they needed help understanding the instance or their role if they spoke up we would gladly helped. Without speaking up I will simply assume the worse and seek a replacement.

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Ok well for one I agree with Max...FOR THE MOST PART.

However if this content is current Savage content...Communication is key. Assuming they have no keyboard to type...an emote or jumping up and down signifying you can at least hear/read/understand the situation is helpful. If one particular person is picked from the group cause of something they did wrong and can't acknowledge they are listening...AND that majority of the group agree to dismiss them...I have to agree with Bobby on that point.

On any other content though...I'm patient enough that even if they can't communicate...I can get people through the content even if one person is hampering the run.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Not talking can lead to the perception of trolling / not participating. I have personally removed players for not communicating. They make a mistake ask if everything is okay, no response and it is after 5min I indicate a kick.

No matter how you want to cut it, sure devs are trying to make the game Solo l, but once you queue and start content with others. That Solo experience is no longer in play, you have entered the realm of the social/group aspect where communicating is part of that.

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You know there is the possibility of them being a console player. Typing with a controller is just tricky and I imagine not a lot of people know how to properly do it.

a console player could write 'wait' doesnt take long... or even make a macro. to indicate he needs time to write more.
doesnt matter how you play, as soon as you play together with other people you have to be able to communicate with them