What are your thoughts on FFXIV's combat?

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Slow, I wish they would add more ocgd skills on shorter cooldowns.

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I really don't like too many oGDCs.

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Originally Posted by Curemefi

I really don't like too many oGDCs.

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I get this though at the same token ogcds are pretty much only things that makes the long gcd bearable.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

I get this though at the same token ogcds are pretty much only things that makes the long gcd bearable.

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I'll take oGCDs as long as they're impactful and require thought. I'm not a fan of the glut of oGCDs we already have that require no decision making: Is the cooldown timer done? Press it.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I'll take oGCDs as long as they're impactful and require thought. I'm not a fan of the glut of oGCDs we already have that require no decision making: Is the cooldown timer done? Press it.

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I personally prefer higher APM playstyle which why I am a fan of GW2 ele builds.

I really dislike too many long Cooldown skills. Instead why not making the skill usable after a set of skills/rotation. Or making it available when the specific "job" resource is sufficient. It's more manageable, smooth and fun that way.

It could be a lot better.

I quit the game around lvl 30 because it felt so slow and unresponsive. Came back and forced myself to keep going and it's better with more abilities but animation locks/delays are still awkward as hell. Second worst part of the game imo.

Jobs not feeling complete until lvl 80+ is a huge problem especially considering how often the game scales you down for roulettes and fates. Losing abilities for anything feels awful every time. Worst part of this game imo.

Combat mechanics are painfully basic and dull outside of some bosses. There just aren't enough meaningful ways to interact with enemies or the environment. Hit your dmg buttons and move out of orange (which you don't even have to do all the time), that's it. Utility is all but non-existent which is sad, that's a potentially huge area that could add a lot of depth to the game - hard cc, soft cc, playing outside of roles, having more varied ways to deal with more varied mechanics, etc.

Job design is kind of a mess. The homogenization of jobs within roles sucks but helps with balance I guess. Healers having a billion abilities to heal that go unused in most content while they spam a single dps ability might be the worst part of FFXIV's job design. The majority of content doesn't seem to be designed with job abilities in mind.

Most of the jobs I've played are just boring, all the challenge comes from executing your rotation through difficult raid mechanics; outside of raids they're very dull. At the same time some jobs aren't very intuitive.

It's hard to explain but it's like abilities don't do enough mechanically, they're shallow. Sometimes there are too many abilities, sometimes too few, but either way they feel underwhelming to use much of the time. Melee combos are a good example: 3+ abilities you hit in sequence that deal some damage and that's it, then 2-3 more for aoe, then another sequence that spends a resource to deal some more damage and that's it. So many abilities to do the same thing with a different animation.

My biggest gripe with the UI is not being able to customize buffs and debuffs more. It's not too bad.

The gcd+ogcd combos feel good when they line up properly. Slide-casting feels great.

I will say some of the most fun I've had with mmo combat was WoW's Affliction Warlock against 2-3 targets. You simultaneously have about 9 total debuffs to track across multiple targets, resources coming in randomly that you have to spend before they cap and ideally during buffs which are also random sometimes, the occasional bit of utility and filler spells when everything else is good. All that while dealing with raid mechanics. There was no static rotation and the abilities themselves were very basic but there were a bunch of things to pay attention to and juggle which is what made it exciting.

Meanwhile in FFXIV everyone has a more or less fixed rotation with a fixed 2 minute burst window and the only changes come when a mechanic interrupts your rotation which usually ends up feeling bad due to how structured and busy the rotations are.

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Originally Posted by Curemefi

It may be helpful to the devs too.

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:eek::p

also combat is boring and slow by today's standards basically this :

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

It could be a lot better.

I quit the game around lvl 30 because it felt so slow and unresponsive. Came back and forced myself to keep going and it's better with more abilities but animation locks/delays are still awkward as hell. Second worst part of the game imo.

Jobs not feeling complete until lvl 80+ is a huge problem especially considering how often the game scales you down for roulettes and fates. Losing abilities for anything feels awful every time. Worst part of this game imo.

Combat mechanics are painfully basic and dull outside of some bosses. There just aren't enough meaningful ways to interact with enemies or the environment. Hit your dmg buttons and move out of orange (which you don't even have to do all the time), that's it. Utility is all but non-existent which is sad, that's a potentially huge area that could add a lot of depth to the game - hard cc, soft cc, playing outside of roles, having more varied ways to deal with more varied mechanics, etc.

Job design is kind of a mess. The homogenization of jobs within roles sucks but helps with balance I guess. Healers having a billion abilities to heal that go unused in most content while they spam a single dps ability might be the worst part of FFXIV's job design. The majority of content doesn't seem to be designed with job abilities in mind.

Most of the jobs I've played are just boring, all the challenge comes from executing your rotation through difficult raid mechanics; outside of raids they're very dull. At the same time some jobs aren't very intuitive.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

I get this though at the same token ogcds are pretty much only things that makes the long gcd bearable.

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For some. I don't mind the little break here and there, and favor jobs with a lower amount of oGCDs, or have their oGCD on a proc system. I took to DNC like a fish to water because of this. High APM can still be ok for me to handle if the rotation is streamlined like SAM. On a job like AST where the oGCDs are akin to a large tin filled with butter cookies, I just tend to throw them out there coz... they're drifting... I guess.

I like FFXIV's combat in general.

I love Red Mage the most because the skills flow well, the rotation is satisfying and I have extremely useful situational skills like Verraise so I can prevent party wipes!
I also like Dancer and Bard (the latter improved a lot in EW) because the rotation depends on procs and I find that fun.

However, I'm not fond of jobs with rigid rotations like Dragoon.
Machinist also needs improvements because it lacks skills/mechanics.
I really don't enjoy Summoner after the rework, having to press the same few buttons for many different skills is too boring for my liking. :(

Never played healer and tank beyond lvl 30 so I can't say much about them but I know healers barely have dps buttons so I'm not interested.
I know about the healer disappointment and I hope they will get improvements in 7.0!

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

I like FFXIV's combat in general.

I love Red Mage the most because the skills flow well, the rotation is satisfying and I have extremely useful situational skills like Verraise so I can prevent party wipes!
I also like Dancer and Bard (the latter improved a lot in EW) because the rotation depends on procs and I find that fun.

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i think casters and ranged works well with this type of combat.
anything besides that(all melee),not really.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I'll take oGCDs as long as they're impactful and require thought. I'm not a fan of the glut of oGCDs we already have that require no decision making: Is the cooldown timer done? Press it.

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I usually like high APM classes but I'm in the same boat and the overabundance of meaningless "press on cooldown, yay!" oGCDs annoys me.

Transpose is a good example of something with risk vs reward and decision making. Transpose lines can be a nice dps gain throughout the fight - or backfire big time and you lose a lot more than you could've gained while also serving as an emergency button for Eno upkeep and allowing to switch to UI to use US during downtime/ between pulls. It's not a button I press that often but when I do, it's a deliberate decision I made based on filler spells available, MP ticks and upcoming boss mechanics. Sharp and Triple have a bit of decision making to it because while it's a dps loss not catching Despair with Triple, it's a much bigger dps loss to lose GCDs so it's mobility vs slight dps gain. Sharp is similar.
Amplifier on the other hand is just another "press on cooldown" button. Boring.
RDM had a bit of decision making with their backflip vs that other thing only cowards used Engagement and of course SE took it away like several other buttons that had some risk vs reward tied to them.

Healing issues aside, IMHO the biggest issue with FFXIV's combat in general is that SE are too cautious with it to the point where they've allowed things to get rather stale by keeping to the same formula that was laid 6 years ago with patch 3.4.

In terms of gameplay, Endwalker is barely worth being called an expansion. It's an extensive story DLC with a soft reset on raid progression.

Without more transparency from the developers, it's difficult nail down the exact reasoning behind the way things are heading, but IMO it boils down to SE being unwilling to invest back into the core design team which has been significantly outgrown by the game they relaunched some 8 years ago. I'm not under the illusion that hiring experienced game designers with the sort of experience that an established MMO will require. Rather it's going to take quite significant money to lure Japanese devs away from the lucrative mobile market and that doesn't appear to be money that SE is willing to spend.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Healing issues aside, IMHO the biggest issue with FFXIV's combat in general is that SE are too cautious with it to the point where they've allowed things to get rather stale by keeping to the same formula that was laid 6 years ago with patch 3.4.

In terms of gameplay, Endwalker is barely worth being called an expansion. It's an extensive story DLC with a soft reset on raid progression.

Without more transparency from the developers, it's difficult nail down the exact reasoning behind the way things are heading, but IMO it boils down to SE being unwilling to invest back into the core design team which has been significantly outgrown by the game they relaunched some 8 years ago. I'm not under the illusion that hiring experienced game designers with the sort of experience that an established MMO will require. Rather it's going to take quite significant money to lure Japanese devs away from the lucrative mobile market and that doesn't appear to be money that SE is willing to spend.

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Stifling cautiousness in game design is also frequently the result of an obsession with profits at a publisher's upper levels and, ironically, usually leads to a loss of profits as management fails to react in time to players losing interest in a formula.

Combat is still fun but it is definitely worse than its been since I started playing back in 3.3. This is the biggest issue with the game honestly. Everything is better than it's ever been except job design. Warrior no longer has a mitigation tied to inner beast/fell cleave so you just hit it whenever it lights up. Warrior's gap closer and upheaveal don't consume gauge so it's just the fell cleave gauge and you don't get to manage anything. Healers are absolutely indefensibly bad right now. Seriously if you think healers aren't all awful in terms of design you don't know what you're talking about. Overall I'd say there are maybe five jobs that are better now than they've been in the past. Black mage, red mage, paladin (sorta), ninja (sorta) and dragoon. Every other job is inferior compared to how it was in previous expansions. Two minute buff windows are already stale, no procs or additional effects on most actions (like inner beast before 5.0), heal checks being laughably easy, rotations being 100% static with things like assassinate being removed, most jobs having a personal damage buff to maintain just because, bard's dots not doing anything anymore making them feel useless. The list goes on and on honestly.

I've been playing since 2.0 launched, generally I think it's "OK". I do think many of us long term players probably view ARR through rose tinted glasses but I do think the feel was better, but that could just be because everything was new. I mained SCH and I remember all the cool DPS stuff we could do, but I also remember writing macros for queue interrupts to get Eos/Selene to do what I wanted WHEN I wanted lol. I think button bloat has mostly been dealt with, even though there are a few outlier skills that in normal situations are pretty useless (varies by job). As a PC player I never found it bloated but my partner on PS kinda did, so I understand the sentiment and to be honest I don't feel much was lost in the fat trimming process. As a still mostly healer main I will have to mention the state of healer DPS. SE, pls, just give us an AoE DoT....pls, something, anything. It smooths out healer DPS and allows us to throw in some healies whilst still doing some stabbies. Anyways, I'm just a filthy casual now who mostly crafts so it's all just fine..

Unbearable until level 80, then at level 90 it just add 1 or 2 additional skills. Right now to me PVP > PVE, like seriously if SE continues with their " remove to improve " soon PVE jobs will be easier than Genshin Impact, Healers are already at 2 skills

Just wait when SE remove mundras or maybe Tank stances, or take away No Mercy and add it as a permanent Trait, SE it's capable to ruin jobs even more.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

In terms of gameplay, Endwalker is barely worth being called an expansion. It's an extensive story DLC with a soft reset on raid progression.

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Except the game is actively promoted as a Final Fantasy game first and foremost (hence why it's often called an RPGMMO instead of an MMORPG). The immense amount of new story in EW is most definitely an expansion. A post-patch is the equivalent of a (free) DLC.

Considering that EW is the current biggest in terms of main story content compared to previous expansions. What the hells did we call base Heavensward, Stormblood and Shadowbringers then? Small downloadable add ons? What a stupid take. It's stuff like this that absolutely gets me irritated with this game's community sometimes.

I'm gonna go calm myself down lol

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Except the game is actively promoted as a Final Fantasy game first and foremost (hence why it's often called an RPGMMO instead of an MMORPG). The immense amount of new story in EW is most definitely an expansion. A post-patch is the equivalent of a (free) DLC.

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Note the 'In terms of gameplay', this is a thread about combat after all.

Endwalker has changed very little in this regard. I'm pointing out that in the context of combat, it's IMHO the least impactful expansion of them all. 1.0 to ARR was a complete reboot, ARR to HW drastically switched up both the content and gameplay, Stormblood finally got the side content ball running successfully and was another fairly significant shift in class design and philosophy, Shadowbringers was a solid refinement of side content concepts such as Bozja and for better or worse, brought with it an across the board pruning as well as making typical content easier and more accessible across the board.

Meanwhile Endwalker added a few impactful new keystone abilities, gave healers a 1.5 nuke across the board and has called it a day so far. Put the MSQ to the side for a moment and there's really very little else to differentiate the gameplay loop from what we had in Shadowbringers. It's the same recipe in a different coloured box.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Considering that EW is the current biggest in terms of main story content compared to previous expansions. What the hells did we call base Heavensward, Stormblood and Shadowbringers then? Small downloadable add ons? What a stupid take. It's stuff like this that absolutely gets me irritated with this game's community sometimes.

I'm gonna go calm myself down lol

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This is a thread about combat sir. By all means once you've calmed down a bit, come back and let me know what ground breaking gameplay changes Endwalker brought along with it.

The best I can think of would be two of the MSQ quests 'A Frosty Reception' and 'In from the Cold'. Both are unlike anything we've seen before IMO but a pair of unique MSQ quests doesn't really alter the core gameplay loop.

Combats ok. There's a delay between pushing a hotkey and when the ability actually happens in this game, and it can be a huge annoyance in PVP.

You realize this literally means nothing with a game that gets constantly updated with patches.

I say this because literally 6.1 and 6.2 has and or will be doing much more than the first 2 patches of Shb ever did.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I will still side eye scholars who don't have Selene out. They are cosmetic now, sure, but she is still the correct form of Lily.

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She does not match my glam.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Healing issues aside, IMHO the biggest issue with FFXIV's combat in general is that SE are too cautious with it to the point where they've allowed things to get rather stale by keeping to the same formula that was laid 6 years ago with patch 3.4.

In terms of gameplay, Endwalker is barely worth being called an expansion. It's an extensive story DLC with a soft reset on raid progression.

Without more transparency from the developers, it's difficult nail down the exact reasoning behind the way things are heading, but IMO it boils down to SE being unwilling to invest back into the core design team which has been significantly outgrown by the game they relaunched some 8 years ago. I'm not under the illusion that hiring experienced game designers with the sort of experience that an established MMO will require. Rather it's going to take quite significant money to lure Japanese devs away from the lucrative mobile market and that doesn't appear to be money that SE is willing to spend.

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To be fair, blizzard changing wows combat completely every expansion so I need to relearn my class from scratch and end up main switching because I don't like what they did pissed me off, too.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I say this because literally 6.1 and 6.2 has and or will be doing much more than the first 2 patches of Shb ever did.

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Tell that to someone who mained SCH in 4.0 :rolleyes:

All 3 healers were a radical departure in how they played between 3.5 and 4.0 and played very differently with the expansions release. And it wasn't just the healers, many other jobs changed significantly with the new level cap. Pour one out for the bow and gunmages.

A lot of core gameplay stuff was changed across a large number of jobs.

Meanwhile with 6.0, we got 1.5 second healer nukes, 1 job got reworked and.....

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Originally Posted by Imora

To be fair, blizzard changing wows combat completely every expansion so I need to relearn my class from scratch and end up main switching because I don't like what they did pissed me off, too.

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Yeah, Blizzard got a bit silly with that later on. SE have been just as guilty of that at times though, again, Bow and Gunmages are a prime example. Treading the line isn't easy.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Tell that to someone who mained SCH in 4.0 :rolleyes:

All 3 healers were a radical departure in how they played between 3.5 and 4.0 and played very differently with the expansions release. And it wasn't just the healers, many other jobs changed significantly with the new level cap. Pour one out for the bow and gunmages.

A lot of core gameplay stuff was changed across a large number of jobs.

Meanwhile with 6.0, we got 1.5 second healer nukes, 1 job got reworked and.....



Yeah, Blizzard got a bit silly with that later on. SE have been just as guilty of that at times though, again, Bow and Gunmages are a prime example. Treading the line isn't easy.

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That still has nothing to do with what you're trying to argue. You're arguing about job balance adjustments but masking it under "content" that somehow EW lacks when that's not the case at all? At least be honest and get your topics straight if you're going to be saying such claims

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Endwalker has changed very little in this regard. I'm pointing out that in the context of combat, it's IMHO the least impactful expansion of them all. 1.0 to ARR was a complete reboot, ARR to HW drastically switched up both the content and gameplay, Stormblood finally got the side content ball running successfully and was another fairly significant shift in class design and philosophy, Shadowbringers was a solid refinement of side content concepts such as Bozja and for better or worse, brought with it an across the board pruning as well as making typical content easier and more accessible across the board.

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Except this isn't a thread about "how is combat different from ShB to EW". It's a general thread (which I already posted my own general thoughts about early on). You're not talking about combat itself. You're talking specifically about comparing one expansion to another, and claiming there's no content in the expansion because combat is similar. This thread is about combat itself. What about the current combat system do you like? What do you wish would be different? Saying "well, it's so similar to the last expansion" - which says nothing about your general thoughts - and then bad-mouthing that expansion isn't what the thread is about, either...

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

That still has nothing to do with what you're trying to argue. You're arguing about job balance adjustments but masking it under "content" that somehow EW lacks when that's not the case at all? At least be honest and get your topics straight if you're going to be saying such claims

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Stop for a second... I'm not talking about balance. I'm talking about classes playing fundamentally differently. Again since you keep missing it, let me make this clear for you:

This is a thread about **COMBAT**

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Meanwhile Endwalker added a few impactful new keystone abilities, gave healers a 1.5 nuke across the board and has called it a day so far. Put the MSQ to the side for a moment and there's really very little else to differentiate the gameplay loop from what we had in Shadowbringers. It's the same recipe in a different coloured box.

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Why does each expansion need to radically change the gameplay loop in some way? If the recipe is good, stick to minor tweaks, if any. If the recipe is bad, then fix it.

If it were up to me, each job's kit would be more or less there at Lv.70. You get the standard boilerplate core for the role and job in the Lv.1-50 range. Then Lv.51-60 and Lv.61-70 each add a coherent chunk of flavor -- PLD's magic rotation should come within the space of one expac, WHM's lilies should come within the space of one expac, and so on. Maybe this can continue for yet another expansion, but I'd start to worry about space on hotbars.

So, from Lv.71 onward, the focus shifts to dungeons and trials, adding more varied mechanics (more memorable instances such as the original Copperbell slime mold, for example), and removing reliance on telegraphed AoEs and fixed battle scripts.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Except this isn't a thread about "how is combat different from ShB to EW". It's a general thread (which I already posted my own general thoughts about early on). You're not talking about combat itself. You're talking specifically about comparing one expansion to another, and claiming there's no content in the expansion because combat is similar. This thread is about combat itself. What about the current combat system do you like? What do you wish would be different? Saying "well, it's so similar to the last expansion" - which says nothing about your general thoughts - and then bad-mouthing that expansion isn't what the thread is about, either...

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Oic, so you think I bad mouthed Daddy Yoshi and now you desperately need to object to what I'm saying whilst not understanding/not reading what it is I'm actually saying.

Let me emphasis the important point for you as well:

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In terms of gameplay, Endwalker is barely worth being called an expansion.

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Tell me, what new combat content have we seen with these expansion that we hadn't already seen in Shadowbringers?

Spoiler, the answer is a pair of unique MSQ quests. Outside of that? Nothing at least so far. Dungeons feel the same, leveling feels the same, raids feel the same, the 24 man feels the same.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

This is a thread about **COMBAT**

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No insultino the Endwalkerinoooooooooo ! WAAAAAAAH!

I kid, I kid. Summoner rework and the killing of the notion of pet combat was a sizeable change, and... Warrior cone skill becoming a circle? I've got nothing.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Why does each expansion need to radically change the gameplay loop in some way? If the recipe is good, stick to minor tweaks, if any. If the recipe is bad, then fix it.

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This is a 9 year old MMO soon. The game needs to evolve and keep things fresh to maintain momentum and growth. ARR through to Shadowbringers all felt unique in their own way.

ARR was a rebirth as it's name suggests
Heavenward was almost as thorough a rework as ARR in terms of gameplay.
Stormblood was a comparatively weak expansion in some regards but even so it still ushered in many significant rethinks not only of classes but also the importance of side content such as Eureka.
Shadowbringers brought with it a new found focus on accessibility and narrative.

Endwalker is pretty clearly aimed at riding the coattails of Shadowbringers huge success but as a result, it lacks it's own identity as an expansion. It's just doubling down on the same highlights as Shadowbringers (And IMO falls short at doing so).

To give an example of what I mean, look at how a typical raider will tackle each new Expansion release.

Level a job through the MSQ > Spam Dungeons to get basic tome gear > Spam primals to get Primal Gear > Wait 2 weeks for Normal Mode Raids > Farm 2 weeks of tokens for Normal Gear > Buy/craft Crafted and Penta Meld it > Wait 2 weeks for Savage > etc

This routine has remained strangely intact from Heavensward through to Endwalker with the only change being the relative ease of materia now vs back then. I'm really not sure why.

There are plenty of other areas SE could throw curveballs at us again. Bozja's raids were a decent curveball, lets see more of that elsewhere to break how formulaic and by the numbers the core gameplay loop is in places.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Except the game is actively promoted as a Final Fantasy game first and foremost (hence why it's often called an RPGMMO instead of an MMORPG). The immense amount of new story in EW is most definitely an expansion. A post-patch is the equivalent of a (free) DLC.

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RPGs have gear and build choices outside of a straight vertical ladder, they have niche abilities that add flavor even when they're not used 100% of the time, story choices you can make to affect the story, enemies that actually try hard to kill the player, battles that bar your progress until you learn the game a bit more, dungeons with more than one hallway, etc., etc..

This game is more like Dynasty Warriors with a visual novel attached.

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Originally Posted by vetch

RPGs have gear and build choices outside of a straight vertical ladder, they have niche abilities that add flavor even when they're not used 100% of the time, story choices you can make to affect the story, enemies that actually try hard to kill the player, battles that bar your progress until you learn the game a bit more, dungeons with more than one hallway, etc., etc..

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this game actually use to have that back in 1.0 but many of the spells got removed due to users on the forum complaining about the excess of ability bloat.

This was the amount of spells someone I knew unlocked while leveling their Conj who was at the time only 48. I guess I should explain the image abit though.
"Class Action" refers to the job you are currently playing right now and below that are the spells and skills you unlocked for it.
"Additional Actions" refers to your other jobs with the job icons that you can select and pick out spells and skills in that job to use.
every skill and spell had a "requirement" which lists either DoW or DoM but if it says both then you can use it for both types of jobs.
the "action bar" is literally your hotbar which it was numbered 1-3 but most others I knew just used 'macro-chains' (making a macro that casts a series of spells to skills in a combo) instead of what my friend did here and just put the ones they needed all down which worked for them because they used a controller and yes. 1.0 aka legacy version was 100% controller compatible which worked better then using a keyboard/mouse but most users didn't play with a controller at the time thus most suffered the keyboard/mouse controls.

https://i.ibb.co/kGV4D1R/23543461353.jpg

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Why does each expansion need to radically change the gameplay loop in some way? If the recipe is good, stick to minor tweaks, if any. If the recipe is bad, then fix it.

If it were up to me, each job's kit would be more or less there at Lv.70. You get the standard boilerplate core for the role and job in the Lv.1-50 range. Then Lv.51-60 and Lv.61-70 each add a coherent chunk of flavor -- PLD's magic rotation should come within the space of one expac, WHM's lilies should come within the space of one expac, and so on. Maybe this can continue for yet another expansion, but I'd start to worry about space on hotbars.

So, from Lv.71 onward, the focus shifts to dungeons and trials, adding more varied mechanics (more memorable instances such as the original Copperbell slime mold, for example), and removing reliance on telegraphed AoEs and fixed battle scripts.

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Yeah. Their point is that the recipe wasn't very good in ShB and instead of refining it in EW, they just added more of each ingredient. It isn't awful by any means, but it's definitely not as good as its past incarnations nor did it change combat substantially enough to be called an expansion. They didn't meaningfully expand on anything introduced in ShB. They added two jobs (one of which is a shameless copypaste of scholar) and gave most other jobs another finisher they hit once per minute. Tanks each got a stronger cooldown and a finisher. Healers got another strong heal they didn't need (or want), melees got more finishers, ranged got nothing, casters got a crappy summoner rework that did nothing but obliterate an entire playstyle, ANOTHER red mage finisher and black mage got a fancy fire upgrade. None of these meaningfully changed combat. Especially when compared to what every job got in previous expacs.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

This is a 9 year old MMO soon. The game needs to evolve and keep things fresh to maintain momentum and growth. ARR through to Shadowbringers all felt unique in their own way.

ARR was a rebirth as it's name suggests
Heavenward was almost as thorough a rework as ARR in terms of gameplay.
Stormblood was a comparatively weak expansion in some regards but even so it still ushered in many significant rethinks not only of classes but also the importance of side content such as Eureka.
Shadowbringers brought with it a new found focus on accessibility and narrative.

Endwalker is pretty clearly aimed at riding the coattails of Shadowbringers huge success but as a result, it lacks it's own identity as an expansion. It's just doubling down on the same highlights as Shadowbringers (And IMO falls short at doing so).

To give an example of what I mean, look at how a typical raider will tackle each new Expansion release.

Level a job through the MSQ > Spam Dungeons to get basic tome gear > Spam primals to get Primal Gear > Wait 2 weeks for Normal Mode Raids > Farm 2 weeks of tokens for Normal Gear > Buy/craft Crafted and Penta Meld it > Wait 2 weeks for Savage > etc

This routine has remained strangely intact from Heavensward through to Endwalker with the only change being the relative ease of materia now vs back then. I'm really not sure why.

There are plenty of other areas SE could throw curveballs at us again. Bozja's raids were a decent curveball, lets see more of that elsewhere to break how formulaic and by the numbers the core gameplay loop is in places.

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Kinda hard to already judge EW when you're going with the perspective of a completed expansion timeline with Shb if you're bringing up stuff like Bozja and all of its raids which were things that were added in post-Shb patches. To me, I already feel like EW is giving way more bang for its buck with not only concluding the 10 year story, but also all the new forms of content we're getting such updating the old ARR duties in the msq, adding in duty support for those old dungeons, pvp rework, new quality of life features and now with 6.2 we'll be getting 2 new forms of mid-core content with variable and criterion dungeons and island sanctuary along with additional duty support for HW and lets not forget they're finally going to do the initial graphical updates transition within post-EW up to 7.0

Bozja was literally a slimmed down version of Eureka (a piece of content from SB) that while I absolutely enjoyed it; lets not kid ourselves with how much of a mess and unfinished the overall content was. They were being ambitious and we did get some additional fun raids, but the werent able to fulfill a lot of the ideas that were planned for it, relegating to rushing the whole experience. Its a shame but oh well.

To the OP:

I generally like the combat system. What I don't like is the sheer number of stuff that is nearly a copy of something else. While it's not button bloat per se because it fits well in the rotation, I get to ask myself if (for example) MCH's new Chainsaw could've been something else other than a copy of Air Anchor. Or why Dancer's Fan Dance IV is not an upgrade for FD III (getting 2 charges) when it literally does the same thing but with a different animation?

I'm not even asking to follow those what ifs, but... At least add a secondary effect to those actions to justify they being yet another button! Give a bleed dot to Chainsaw, or make Fan Dance IV's bird leave an AoE burn zone on its trail.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Kinda hard to already judge EW when you're going with the perspective of a completed expansion timeline with Shb if you're bringing up stuff like Bozja and all of its raids which were things that were added in post-Shb patches. To me, I already feel like EW is giving way more bang for its buck with not only concluding the 10 year story, but also all the new forms of content we're getting such updating the old ARR duties in the msq, adding in duty support for those old dungeons, pvp rework, new quality of life features and now with 6.2 we'll be getting 2 new forms of mid-core content with variable and criterion dungeons and island sanctuary along with additional duty support for HW and lets not forget they're finally going to do the initial graphical updates transition within post-EW up to 7.0

Bozja was literally a slimmed down version of Eureka (a piece of content from SB) that while I absolutely enjoyed it; lets not kid ourselves with how much of a mess and unfinished the overall content was. They were being ambitious and we did get some additional fun raids, but the werent able to fulfill a lot of the ideas that were planned for it, relegating to rushing the whole experience. Its a shame but oh well.

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Why not though? We know what we are getting for most of EW especially with the team bailing on the additional planned job revamps until 7.0. Island sanctuary is really the only big unknown here, is it going to have an impact on the rest of the game? Who knows, Yoshida has repeatedly told people to manage their expectations for it but I'm honestly more concerned for Criterion, Dungeons have been extremely formulaic for the longest time. Will the team manage to dig themselves out of the trench and come up with something fresh, challenging and engaging? It's nice to dream but the track record isn't inspiring me with confidence here.

The PvP rework is a fair point and is something I'm inevitably going to overlook. The duty support stuff? Eh it's not exactly new nor does it really change much of anything.

Bojza is an interesting case, what it lacked in polish it made up for in accessibility and player retention by the bucketload, especially compared to Eureka and Diadem before it. I'm pretty confident that the next Eureka will continue Bozja's formula rather than try to reinvent the idea yet again. Given that they won't be hamstrung by a pandemic, it should allow them to properly finish the thing this time too, so that's no bad thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Why not though? We know what we are getting for most of EW especially with the team bailing on the additional planned job revamps until 7.0. Island sanctuary is really the only big unknown here, is it going to have an impact on the rest of the game? Who knows, Yoshida has repeatedly told people to manage their expectations for it but I'm honestly more concerned for Criterion, Dungeons have been extremely formulaic for the longest time. Will the team manage to dig themselves out of the trench and come up with something fresh, challenging and engaging? It's nice to dream but the track record isn't inspiring me with confidence here.

The PvP rework is a fair point and is something I'm inevitably going to overlook. The duty support stuff? Eh it's not exactly new nor does it really change much of anything.

Bojza is an interesting case, what it lacked in polish it made up for in accessibility and player retention by the bucketload, especially compared to Eureka and Diadem before it. I'm pretty confident that the next Eureka will continue Bozja's formula rather than try to reinvent the idea yet again. Given that they won't be hamstrung by a pandemic, it should allow them to properly finish the thing this time too, so that's no bad thing.

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Mostly I say this due to how trends work where general reception changes after the initial release; like how ShB was when it was released and it was going through its patches, people didnt receive it all that well (besides its story) but now everyone seems to think that ShB was this amazing expansion when really it was just par for the course. The game slowly keeps getting better.

And I wouldnt say that duty support and the reworks to old ARR, HW and eventually SB content arent a big change when that literally will affect how new players will experience certain parts of the game. That goes a looong way with presentation. They already addressed the annoyances and lackluster of some of the now super old content such as Cape Westwind, Castrum, Prae and now we'll be getting a whole rework with adding in key npcs to HW msq dungeons and already people are blowing their load off with having a certain Elezen Knight join the party at a crucial moment in that story.


But yeah I still stand by my case, its still too early to tell how overall EW will be; but at least I can already tell there's a lot more new stuff coming in that what I experienced in the previous expansion.

My opinion on FF14 combat, after drinking a bit and thinking drunkenly about stuff: it's the most boring shit ever. It's not fun, it's not inspired, it's an extension of being a football team and calling your plays on the field, which have a strategic workflow that works for some people, but doesn't work for me. If I can find something more interesting, I'll drop this piece of crap in a hot second. Why yes I am a pleasant person in real life, why do you ask?