New savage raid gear has weapon and armour effects. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I will note that once raid tiers are no longer current, it does become easier to farm them for glamour purposes. I helped take some folks through E8S and E12S a couple of weeks ago, so that they could get some Edenchoir and Edenmorn glam they wanted; at this point, you can do E12S (the final Eden raid) without needing to see lions in phase 1, and finishing phase 2 before Intermediate Relativity. So to drag people through, you really only need to teach Junction: Shiva, Junction: Titan, and -- admittedly the sticking point for some 'let's get you some glamour' groups -- Basic Relativity.

For anyone who doesn't do savage, that basically translates to "the fight is a great deal shorter, and you can skip both of the mechanics that could turn into party finder memes when it was current."

So if you want the weapon, but are willing to wait some while -- probably into next expansion, admittedly -- it will eventually become possible to just roll in unsynched and sort of brute-force the fight for glamour purposes.

(Admittedly, I half-think that once a raid tier's expansion is past, they should open up the savage gear to be bought at inflated rates with the normal raid tokens. Then there'd still be a purpose to the stuff you sometimes end up with in your inventory after raid roulette. Want the Edenmorn fending top? Go run E12 normal and get like... 24 chest tokens, which could be used in place of 8 savage books. Once it's no longer a current tier, the gear's only purpose -- save for niche cases like BiS for certain ultimates -- is as glamour, so I feel like giving an easier path to get it wouldn't be terrible. But that's neither here nor there.)

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Savage panda weapon wise, i can wait for a long time lol no worries ! Thanks for your input :)

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

A bad glamour that won't glow or be dyable, yes I'm so relieved to hear I'm going to get the welfare version and that I can get the real version when 8.0 comes out.

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I'm all for accessibility in this game, and I will vehemently defend my position that we should not gatekeep people from, like, the actual story. But I think it's completely fine for there to be at least some rewards locked behind difficult content. And I think the gear (and mount) for a savage tier qualifies there... at least while the gear is semi-current.

(As I have said before, when the raids are an entire expansion behind, I would actually be 100% cool with them adding alternate ways to get the gear as glamour.)

I'll certainly agree and sympathize that it's unfortunate when the thing locked behind content you don't want to do happens to be a reward you do want to have... but I mean, sometimes that happens? That's life in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Savage raiders are spoiled brats.

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well i guess thats make you a toxic causal then.

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Originally Posted by Rayne6665

Savage panda weapon wise, i can wait for a long time lol no worries ! Thanks for your input :)

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Glad it was useful, at least!

As a side note, since you're actually on my server, feel free to reach out if you need to put together a group to run older savage stuff for glam; I actually enjoy doing that. As mentioned in the post, just a couple of weeks ago, I was part of a group that ran some first-timers through E12S to get them a couple of weapons for glam, as well as the mount; it's fun to do that sort of stuff.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Git gud is one of those things people say when they don't have an actual argument. So grats on tipping your hand.

If I'm salty and bitter about savage then you can take it up with the people who designed those fights to make them stress inducing to the point of unhealthy, or the savage raiding community who heaps onto that stress by being unhelpful, toxic jerks who demand perfection at all times and hang expulsion from their precious statics over your head at every point in the process of clearing these badly designed nightmares.

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I was saying git gud rather ironically but I recognise tone is hard to put across in text. That said, it's a valid response. It's not supposed to be roll over ez content, there should be some things that actually take a bit of effort in the game. It's not like you are forever gated from getting the stuff either.. you just wait until you overlevel/gear it and boom you got it.

The fights are not nightmares at all, they are a challenge that take a moderate amount of time to overcome for the average person. There is no shortage of people who help others clear savage as well. Frankly your attitude sounds like the reason you get booted from savage, you're just nasty.

Anyways, I am really happy they are finally adding more gear with vfx on them! Glowing armour has been missing from the game for too long, ik there is old old ARR stuff and Eureka but that is soo little. I am hyped to finally add to them and hope they do more in future savages.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I was saying git gud rather ironically but I recognise tone is hard to put across in text. That said, it's a valid response. It's not supposed to be roll over ez content, there should be some things that actually take a bit of effort in the game. It's not like you are forever gated from getting the stuff either.. you just wait until you overlevel/gear it and boom you got it.

The fights are not nightmares at all, they are a challenge that take a moderate amount of time to overcome for the average person. There is no shortage of people who help others clear savage as well. Frankly your attitude sounds like the reason you get booted from savage, you're just nasty.

Anyways, I am really happy they are finally adding more gear with vfx on them! Glowing armour has been missing from the game for too long, ik there is old old ARR stuff and Eureka but that is soo little. I am hyped to finally add to them and hope they do more in future savages.

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I'm actually quite nice when I'm not being attacked for my opinions or told I suck.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I'm actually quite nice when I'm not being attacked for my opinions or told I suck.

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What are you when someone points out that you've made a mistake?

This might give me a reason to try Savage again, but its annoying you only have two weeks of pog before the PF starts locking people out with Duty Complete.

Too edgy for me to like. It does make me happy that they're making more gears with such noticeable VFX. I hope this will later extend to more, other non-savage pieces as well.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

[...]There is no shortage of people who help others clear savage as well. Frankly your attitude sounds like the reason you get booted from savage, you're just nasty.

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This, very much. Chill players are one of the best kind of players to play with vs those who gets riled up too often for whatever reason---THOSE are the actual nightmares one can meet in such contents.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

This might give me a reason to try Savage again, but its annoying you only have two weeks of pog before the PF starts locking people out with Duty Complete.

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No one is locked out from practice parties, which those people who are affected by Duty Complete should be joining anyways.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

No one is locked out from practice parties, which those people who are affected by Duty Complete should be joining anyways.

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Sorry I mean like Savage starts to die down after those two weeks, and practice parties become less afterwards.

You would have to go out of your way to form statics which some people are not too big on.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Sorry I mean like Savage starts to die down after those two weeks, and practice parties become less afterwards.

You would have to go out of your way to form statics which some people are not too big on.

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i still see practice parties for tier 1 in crystal, so this isn’t true. and even if it was, you can always make your own. there is always people wanting to practice but refuse to make a party. take the initiative

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Sorry I mean like Savage starts to die down after those two weeks, and practice parties become less afterwards.

You would have to go out of your way to form statics which some people are not too big on.

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Might depend on your data center. Here on Light at 3 pm ST on a Sunday there are plenty of practice parties for content that's now a patch old. Less so for P1S and P2S but that's because you can clear them with your first or second group so people don't have to do them repeatedly. And no one is prevented from making a practice group if there isn't one. They usually fill within minutes at prime time.

https://i.postimg.cc/Pxvht1gm/ffxiv-...173420-597.png

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Might depend on your data center. Here on Light at 3 pm ST on a Sunday there are plenty of practice parties for content that's now a patch old. Less so for P1S and P2S but that's because you can clear them with your first or second group so people don't have to do them repeatedly. And no one is prevented from making a practice group if there isn't one. They usually fill within minutes at prime time.

https://i.postimg.cc/Pxvht1gm/ffxiv-...173420-597.png

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That's cute that you think that practice parties ever make actual progress when they break up after three wipes.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

I wonder if you can dye over the effects on both the weapon and the armor, or will it just remain in that color.

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My experience has been that you can't dye particle effects... which is part of why I've never really been interested in relics because they need to fit my character's color scheme out of the box, effects and all.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

What are you when someone points out that you've made a mistake?

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is it wrong to say, when i read this i thought of gordon ramsay for some reason

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

That's cute that you think that practice parties ever make actual progress when they break up after three wipes.

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This actually doesn't happen that often. If anything, a lot of practice parties stay together for too long without recognizing that progress is impossible. The 3 strike rule is more common in clear parties, but even still pretty uncommon.
A much much more common situation is this:

Someone puts up a prog party for a mechanic late into a fight, like FoA in P3S.
Another player who has never successfully passed adds phase and still has trouble in phase 1 joins without saying anything, feeling they 'deserve' to be further in the fight.
The party proceeds to wipe for a full lockout, mostly because of that single persons whom everyone is too nice to do anything about.
Party disbands after leaving the instance.

Anyway, the most effective way to avoid problems would be to simply host your own party; That way, you know it wont disband randomly and you know that you won't be kicked, and can freely kick anyone who is toxic to you.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

That's cute that you think that practice parties ever make actual progress when they break up after three wipes.

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I got p1s and p2s done in one day by joining practice parties. That's more progress than you'll get by whining about unsuccessful parties on the forums.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

This actually doesn't happen that often. If anything, a lot of practice parties stay together for too long without recognizing that progress is impossible. The 3 strike rule is more common in clear parties, but even still pretty uncommon.
A much much more common situation is this:

Someone puts up a prog party for a mechanic late into a fight, like FoA in P3S.
Another player who has never successfully passed adds phase and still has trouble in phase 1 joins without saying anything, feeling they 'deserve' to be further in the fight.
The party proceeds to wipe for a full lockout, mostly because of that single persons whom everyone is too nice to do anything about.
Party disbands after leaving the instance.

Anyway, the most effective way to avoid problems would be to simply host your own party; That way, you know it wont disband randomly and you know that you won't be kicked, and can freely kick anyone who is toxic to you.

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my expeirence with my alt on light is that practice parties are like loose sand... makes me sad because on crystal people tend to stick around for a little longer than that. I also do not think using p3s as an example is fair since its like Light Rampant memes on steroids. But yes, people lie about their progs/skills as often as they breath air.

Honestly jealous, as a solid DF player harder raid tiers feels like a good way to support the mender network... so I stray from this content until you can unsync it. Would be neat if they added a slight variation VFX you could unlock by spending casual stuff like from the 24 raid tokens or like concept. If red was savage you might be able to unlock blue or something. Of course you can wait till it's epic echo able, but that'll be like a year lol.

I hope such designs influence the relics and such, here the vfx appears to flow with the weapon better than many relics which to me often look a little bit disjointed (NOT ALL, but I'm used to looking at relic effects and wondering what I'm looking at). Relic armor would be neat.. I'm a sucker for VFX even though it's a bit gaudy lol, but I like the vfx to flow better like this raid stuff. That tomestone GNB sword for example with some water effects, brotherhood FFX like (dripping / internal water movement and bubbles, perhaps trailing effect so when you swing it the weapon creates slicing mists), would be absolutely amazing. Our PvP rank 25 armor with vfx might be another one that would be quite O__O wow!

Anyway, looks neat to me- gratz to those who get it.

So, while I have a static, when we're progging the tier I also venture on in PF practice parties once we finish for the week; as our shot-caller, it benefits me (and the static) to get a little farther and get a little more practice.

When we're no longer progging, I often will run practice/teaching parties for others.

My experience overall has been that practice parties either last like 3-5 pulls, or they stick together until the instance timer runs out. If the party says it's practicing one mechanic and is falling to get even close to reaching that mechanic, it's likely someone will get impatient and bounce... and that can lead to party dissolution. But if a party is making progress I've seen them stick together for a long time.

For P4S practice parties, I saw a lot of phase 2 parties wipe on Pinax in phase 1 and then dissolve in 10-15 minutes. But I also saw stuff like an Act II practice party that stuck together for almost 2 hours and turned into a Curtain Call/enrage party.

PF practice parties are a mixed bag, no question. But my own "Pinax memes. Pinax memes everywhere." joking at the time aside, I don't think the PF practice scene is as dire as people sometimes think. Even if it's probably easy to let yourself focus on the frustrating parties, as opposed to the productive ones.

I won't pretend savage is easy when you're new to it—much less if you're doing the tier entirely in PF—but I do think many people let themselves get frustrated and view a fight as a hinderance to what they want (a clear), rather than the content itself—and the doing of said content—as the actual goal and purpose in and of itself.

I've fallen into that trap myself when I think prog is stalling!

But if you look at the fight itself as the purpose of doing savage, as a chance to learn new stuff and improve your skills at your chosen job, I do think savage is a lot more approachable than folks sometimes think it is.