This frequency of English localization issues is unacceptable

It seems like the localization was more focused on delivering the dialogue in a more poetic/Shakespearean flair than communicating the information in a concise and accurate way, which is fine when it's not something particularly important and I do admit that it adds a nice oomph to the dialogue. It's only particularly egregious in this case because it presents Hydaelyn in a better light than she deserves, and if it was the only example of such then I doubt anyone would even care. Taking liberties is really not that big of a deal, and sometimes it can make a translation even better (or at least more emotionally resonant) than the original.

Here, however, it just compounds a lot of issues that were already present.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

THAT’S WHAT I’M SAYING LIKE why is the localization team straight making shit up now?!

Also I doubt the team was ever good. Apparently issues like this go back to ARR.

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The way the NA developers screw up the story time and time and time and time again is a big reason on why I skip their secondary story and silly localisations.

I can never really forgive how they neutered Haurchefant.

But it's getting worse under the new Localisation lead (who was a contractor until they pulled Koji and Soken and more off onto FFXVI). She isn't that great in keeping the story true to the original.

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Originally Posted by hagare

I'm assuming this thread is one of them.
and it's the usual suspects AS USUAL.

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Sounds like you have a grievance their friend. Have you considered forging ahead?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Sounds like you have a grievance their friend. Have you considered forging ahead?

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nah. I'll just make some more popcorn

I see a lot of people saying that the "The differences don't matter in the grand scheme of things", but I feel like it's still important for the enjoyment of a story to ensure that every localization is presenting dialogue with a similar enough context, tone, and wording that the different audiences are able to walk away with a unified impression.

IE, I've seen many who did not draw the connection that the WoL is Azem's reincarnation until 5.3, and that small difference of Emet Selch saying "It can't be..." vs. "You? It can't be..." is enough to get mental gears turning that might not have otherwise. It also makes it much more apparent that up until that moment he didn't actually realize precisely who we were, and I've likewise seen people chiding him for being extra terrible for behaving the way he did in the aftermath of the Innocence fight with the mistaken impression he already knew our soul's original identity but just didn't care anymore.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

The FR ver of the Elidibus death scene is nowhere near as flowery as the EN one, though... so many important lines by important characters are restructured to be stated so vaguely (Elidibus) or straight up lacking information (Midgard) in their quest to come up with cool-sounding one-liners. Or you have them making Y'shtola talk about the "havoc we've seen Zodiark's power wreak" which makes absolutely no sense because no, we haven't seen anything like that, or the mental gymnastics of "Hydaelyn prevented the final days by keeping Zodiark alive." They're both trying to get a point across, alright... the point being they're trying to tell us how GOOD GOOD GOOD Hydaelyn is and how BAD BAD BAD Zodiark is instead of showing us. They turned important lines into moments of literary weakness.

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this is more of a story issue than a localisation issue, no ?

i also agree with shibi above in that more and more i'm tending to skip dialogue because honestly it's just become eh

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I see a lot of people saying that the "The differences don't matter in the grand scheme of things", but I feel like it's still important for the enjoyment of a story to ensure that every localization is presenting dialogue with a similar enough context, tone, and wording that the different audiences are able to walk away with a unified impression.

IE, I've seen many who did not draw the connection that the WoL is Azem's reincarnation until 5.3, and that small difference of Emet Selch saying "It can't be..." vs. "You? It can't be..." is enough to get mental gears turning that might not have otherwise. It also makes it much more apparent that up until that moment he didn't actually realize precisely who we were, and I've likewise seen people chiding him for being extra terrible for behaving the way he did in the aftermath of the Innocence fight with the mistaken impression he already knew our soul's original identity but just didn't care anymore.

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This is a really spot on breakdown. The Emet point is a perfect example of the issue. If the intention of the writers is that he only knew at that exact moment then it shouldn't be something left to question "When did he know who the WoL was?" which is an actual conversation I've had with friends and FC mates because I didn't know there was an alternate line that makes it VERY clear when that moment was.

I can understand the complaint a little, but at the same I feel like the english localization more or less conveys the same story from the examples I read in here. I feel like the big thing is you have to look at how the story is conveyed as a whole through localization vs using snippets of text and comparing the scenes. I don't know how the story was localized and conveyed as a whole in the other versions of the game so I have no frame of reference to compare the english localization to anything else as a whole.

If the complaint is about the story, then there is the 500+ page thread that is there for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As an aside, maybe we should get an American English localisation and a British English localisation. I want to read favourite rather than favorite in dialogue. :cool:

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I've often wondered why it's written in American English when most of the voice actors are British.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

It seems like the localization was more focused on delivering the dialogue in a more poetic/Shakespearean flair than communicating the information in a concise and accurate way, which is fine when it's not something particularly important and I do admit that it adds a nice oomph to the dialogue. It's only particularly egregious in this case because it presents Hydaelyn in a better light than she deserves, and if it was the only example of such then I doubt anyone would even care. Taking liberties is really not that big of a deal, and sometimes it can make a translation even better (or at least more emotionally resonant) than the original.

Here, however, it just compounds a lot of issues that were already present.

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That's just localization. Getting an actual translation is rare now a days, lol.

Didn't some localizer/translator on a certain site with the number 4 expose the Localization side of the Video Game industry few years ago claiming they were hiring people that couldn't give give 2 cents about the audience amongst other things? Seems like the English side of Localization has gone down hill in quality because of corruption and laziness.

Though to be for real its been kind of like this since the 1990s sadly.

If you wanted good localization and translation is often from people with free time and passion which has slowly been becoming the norm since I believe going back as the early 2000s, Falcom one of the Video Game Companies in Japan in particular has acknowledged those particular individuals.

I think Sega to some extent as well.

Kind of sad you have to rely on fans to get anything good at this point.

To Localizers/Translators reading this I'm not saying everyone of you all are like this of course in the industry, but some of your colleagues been giving a bad name to the Job title mainly in the mainstream. I think I can see why some have become somewhat distrusting of them because of past incident with other games besides FFXIV here. I don't know why its mainly the English Localization having these issues, but the Gaming Industry should try to do better.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

(French) "I must admit however she has quite the matchmaking skills. A human being would have never been able to set foot here with our methods."
(English) "Still, you must be commended. Our methods would not have brought mankind this far."

(French) "So be it. As an eulogy to Venat, and last gift to original mankind, I could afford to make a preamble!"
(English) "And so, as a show of respect to the last of us, I make this declaration."

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Ultima Thule is such a mess. I still don't know what "matchmaking" is supposed to mean, though that seems to be consistent throughout every language except EN. (I have theories, but this isn't the thread for it.) The context between "a human being" and "mankind" I consider important.

The second part is so bizarre. Considering Emet looks directly at the WoL when he says "as a show of respect to the last of us", knowing that Venat is dead-dead, I would naturally take that to mean he was talking about us. Instead, it's mainly in reference to 'authentic mankind'.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

The "whatever reason" here being so I don't have to refer to the French version to pick up on stuff that has been dropped in the EN version, or to resort to it where the vague phrasing used in the EN version introduces ambiguities.

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This. Not only is there a lot of missing context I consider important, but several instances where dialog isn't even remotely the same. Like they just plugged the JP into Google translate and tried to make sense of it.

It wasn't as noticeable in ShB, but EW had a lot going on with inconsistencies and contradictions. I consider it important to know if that's due to the storytelling or poor translation.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

IE, I've seen many who did not draw the connection that the WoL is Azem's reincarnation until 5.3, and that small difference of Emet Selch saying "It can't be..." vs. "You? It can't be..." is enough to get mental gears turning that might not have otherwise. It also makes it much more apparent that up until that moment he didn't actually realize precisely who we were, and I've likewise seen people chiding him for being extra terrible for behaving the way he did in the aftermath of the Innocence fight with the mistaken impression he already knew our soul's original identity but just didn't care anymore.

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My first impressions of 5.0 were that the WoL was just another Ancient, no one special. I saw nothing throughout the EN version to suggest otherwise despite reading the contrary online. Then I played through 5.3 and wondered why there wasn't much more emphasis on Emet recognizing who we were and his fond feelings for our original incarnation. I read an interview where Yoshi-P said it was difficult to depict what Emet was thinking and feeling (I don't know why), so I thought that was the problem. However, seeing the discrepancies in EW between EN and other languages I now wonder what I may have missed that was elaborated upon or explained better in other languages.

Maybe this isn't important to some people, but it is to me. Missing context or rewritten dialog leads to misunderstandings and confusion, which has a direct effect on the enjoyment of the story.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

Assuming this is a valid excuse for anything, why is the EN localization the only one suffering from it?

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Because it's the only one that changed hands and it's showing.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Because it's the only one that changed hands and it's showing.

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the localisation has always been like this, pinning it on one person is dumb.

moenbrydas minion, naels gender, zhloe, boss names, little sun... need i go on?


the french localisation has its own quirks, in eden mitron is referred to with feminine pronouns. no translation is perfect.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

the localisation has always been like this, pinning it on one person is dumb.

moenbrydas minion, naels gender, zhloe, boss names, little sun... need i go on?

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Those are tiny issues compared to TCs examples.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Those are tiny issues compared to TCs examples.

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the first two literally change the lore of the game. the initial explaination for Nael being a woman was that *his* body assumed the form of someone close to him. We didnt get the JP explanation until later on.

At this point calling someone a localizer is the worst insult you could ever come up with.

Scum of the earth.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

At this point calling someone a localizer is the worst insult you could ever come up with.

Scum of the earth.

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who hurt you

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

the first two literally change the lore of the game. the initial explaination for Nael being a woman was that *his* body assumed the form of someone close to him. We didnt get the JP explanation until later on.

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The issues outlined in the OP also change the lore of the game. There's not exactly a shortage of players who have been misled to believe that Zodiark was nothing more than a greedy blood god who preyed upon the Ancients. Those of us who fit the pieces together know that simply wasn't true, yet the English localisation has repeatedly downplayed his role as a saviour figure to the Ancients by using deceptive language that simply isn't present in the other languages. Or, worse yet, acts that should be credited to Zodiark are instead framed as Venat's doing instead. To say nothing of the brutality of the genocide tied to the Sundering being hidden behind soft, fluffy language.

Which is a problem. Just as it would be a problem if Estinien's possession by Nidhogg was randomly attributed to Aymeric instead.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The issues outlined in the OP also change the lore of the game. There's not exactly a shortage of players who have been misled to believe that Zodiark was nothing more than a greedy blood god who preyed upon the Ancients. Those of us who fit the pieces together know that simply wasn't true, yet the English localisation has repeatedly downplayed his role as a saviour figure to the Ancients by using deceptive language that simply isn't present in the other languages. Or, worse yet, acts that should be credited to Zodiark are instead framed as Venat's doing instead. To say nothing of the brutality of the genocide tied to the Sundering being hidden behind soft, fluffy language.

Which is a problem. Just as it would be a problem if Estinien's possession by Nidhogg was randomly attributed to Aymeric instead.

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dont get me wrong its a problem. its just not a recent problem. changing the head of the localisation team isn't the root cause.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Has someone drained you of your reading comprehension?

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What an awful respond to make to someone in the forum. And you have almost 4.000 posts at that. You guys single-handedly destroyed the forum, grats.

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

What an awful respond to make to someone in the forum. And you have almost 4.000 posts at that. You guys single-handedly destroyed the forum, grats.

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https://media1.giphy.com/media/Qy7tP...R5uc/giphy.gif

Nice to see the usual story is bad mmmkay cultists are active, keep up the good work guys!

Not that anything will change because thank our lady and saviour hydaelyn the devs don't read a single word of what you say.

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

What an awful respond to make to someone in the forum. And you have almost 4.000 posts at that. You guys single-handedly destroyed the forum, grats.

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I can't believe Lauront has finally done it. Mankind's first hero, and his final hope...

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Originally Posted by Syrri

Nice to see the usual story is bad mmmkay cultists are active, keep up the good work guys!

Not that anything will change because thank our lady and saviour hydaelyn the devs don't read a single word of what you say.

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Which is funny considering the second half of EW before the final fight can be boiled down to your sig, lol.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

I can't believe Lauront has finally done it. Mankind's first hero, and his final hope...

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You know, I've been saying Lauront was a primal for decades and no one was listening!

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

You guys single-handedly destroyed the forum, grats.

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I think that's quite the bizarre claim!

It's also interesting how it's often the comments shot back at someone being deliberately obtuse and dense that are presented as a step too far but never comments such as this:

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Look, we know you are a zodiark fan boy.

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Or randomly implying that anyone who dislikes or disapproves of Venat has an issue with women in general, as seen here:

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I wonder how you'd feel if Elidibus and Venat switched roles, but everything else was the same. So Elidibus caused the sundering, Venat was the heart of Zodiark.

You seem to be real hung on on Venat being a woman. Like.. You just can't let that one thing go, it comes across are rather crass honestly.

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Originally Posted by Syrri

Nice to see the usual story is bad mmmkay cultists are active, keep up the good work guys!

Not that anything will change because thank our lady and saviour hydaelyn the devs don't read a single word of what you say.

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Given the dialogue options in the Omega side quests, I wouldn't be so sure of that. :)

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think that's quite the bizarre claim!

It's also interesting how it's often the comments shot back at someone being deliberately obtuse and dense that are presented as a step too far but never comments such as this:

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Oh shit this guy even got more than twice the numbers, almost 9K posts of disgusting nature. I'm done.

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

Oh shit this guy even got more than twice the numbers, almost 9K posts of disgusting nature. I'm done.

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Wow, you went though all 9k posts? That's commitment. :^)

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

Oh shit this guy even got more than twice the numbers, almost 9K posts of disgusting nature. I'm done.

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https://i.imgur.com/tJWlhCN.png

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

What an awful respond to make to someone in the forum. And you have almost 4.000 posts at that. You guys single-handedly destroyed the forum, grats.

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That wasn’t the intent but eh, a playerbase like this deserves it.

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

Oh shit this guy even got more than twice the numbers, almost 9K posts of disgusting nature. I'm done.

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So I’m to assume you’re leaving for good then? Another day, another slay!

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Originally Posted by Syrri

Nice to see the usual story is bad mmmkay cultists are active, keep up the good work guys!

Not that anything will change because thank our lady and saviour hydaelyn the devs don't read a single word of what you say.

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You people avoid self awareness like it’s white auracite.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

the first two literally change the lore of the game. the initial explaination for Nael being a woman was that *his* body assumed the form of someone close to him. We didnt get the JP explanation until later on.

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I mean, sure. But, it's just a 1.0 remnant villain.

We're talking about major set pieces that were written to be slowly unveiled within 10 years, if you can't get that right then what am I supposed to believe while reading? Who does the blame fall to, other than the person who approved the localized text?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

https://i.imgur.com/tJWlhCN.png

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Wow thanks for the effort, let me repay you back!

https://i.imgur.com/X8wGJ3m.png

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

Wow thanks for the effort, let me repay you back!

https://i.imgur.com/X8wGJ3m.png

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Oh man, mspaint funposting. I can get behind this!

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The issues outlined in the OP also change the lore of the game. There's not exactly a shortage of players who have been misled to believe that Zodiark was nothing more than a greedy blood god who preyed upon the Ancients. Those of us who fit the pieces together know that simply wasn't true, yet the English localisation has repeatedly downplayed his role as a saviour figure to the Ancients by using deceptive language that simply isn't present in the other languages. Or, worse yet, acts that should be credited to Zodiark are instead framed as Venat's doing instead. To say nothing of the brutality of the genocide tied to the Sundering being hidden behind soft, fluffy language.

Which is a problem. Just as it would be a problem if Estinien's possession by Nidhogg was randomly attributed to Aymeric instead.

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Totally not true. If you played the English version and think Zodiark wasn't a hero to the Ancients you have just outed yourself for not paying attention. None of the examples brought up in this thread is evidence that the English lore is different from the Japanese lore.

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

Wow thanks for the effort, let me repay you back!

https://i.imgur.com/X8wGJ3m.png

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Neat! Admittedly I can't say I've ever cared much about my post count or the number of likes, though. I didn't even notice I unlocked seven forum medals until someone pointed it out.

I post a lot because there's some gleaming gems to be found amongst the posters who flock here and it's decidedly more sane than either Twitter or Reddit.

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Originally Posted by icemage

Totally not true. If you played the English version and think Zodiark wasn't a hero to the Ancients you have just outed yourself for not paying attention. None of the examples brought up in this thread is evidence that the English lore is different from the Japanese lore.

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Careful there! There are people in this community who thinks zodiark is a hungry blood god yet claimed to be lore experts. Don't want to offend them, do you?

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

I mean, sure. But, it's just a 1.0 remnant villain.

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nael didnt drop the goddamn moon and permanently alter the overworld to be a 1.0 remnant villain

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

nael didnt drop the goddamn moon and permanently alter the overworld to be a 1.0 remnant villain

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Nael didn't have any voiced lines and was in full armor, besides that Japanese don't have pronouns. Ultimately does it matter which gender Nael was?

Still is a 1.0 remnant and as of now can only be found in videos, it's a fact and it's not going to change.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

That's just localization. Getting an actual translation is rare now a days, lol.

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Localizing is better than translating. There are always nuances in text that can't translate that well, resulting in missing so much of the original meaning that even the best translations can't truly be accurate. At that point, giving something its own meaning is better.