Concrete proof finally provided that the 2002 error has NOTHING is server side issue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiaShino

How are you getting Kansas?
https://i.ibb.co/MC8M640/huh.png



I like the valve employee approach!
//int32_t minutes = {15};
//Why did we code this? This is terrible, never do this.

---

well, thats good, suppose cannot always trust whois lol.

thank you, clears up a couple things. wonder why it showed that though in the lookup... maybe didnt like me looking from Canada? who knows. thank you for the correction

What they really need to do is enhance the launcher/login process to auto-rejoin the queue automatically if any 2002 shows up. If you get d/c'd, that spot should be saved longer as well. Among other QoL things that probably wouldn't take more than a day to add in the system.

Like who thought it was going to be acceptable to throw the error while you say 2k deep into a 4k queue and somehow didn't come back in-time to manually put your OTP back in and then lose your place. Awful design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by technole

What they really need to do is enhance the launcher/login process to auto-rejoin the queue automatically if any 2002 shows up. If you get d/c'd, that spot should be saved longer as well. Among other QoL things that probably wouldn't take more than a day to add in the system.

Like who thought it was going to be acceptable to throw the error while you say 2k deep into a 4k queue and somehow didn't come back in-time to manually put your OTP back in and then lose your place. Awful design.

---

The same corporation that authorized setting up one single datacenter to service multiple countries both in the Americas and the EU then thought, this will end well.

Meanwhile nearly every other publisher including EA has the common sense to understand that a minimum of three geographical regions should be covered for NA. Western (Cali), Central (Texas), Eastern (Chicago). I try not to get sassy with these posts but some things just boggle the mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by technole

What they really need to do is enhance the launcher/login process to auto-rejoin the queue automatically if any 2002 shows up. If you get d/c'd, that spot should be saved longer as well. Among other QoL things that probably wouldn't take more than a day to add in the system.

Like who thought it was going to be acceptable to throw the error while you say 2k deep into a 4k queue and somehow didn't come back in-time to manually put your OTP back in and then lose your place. Awful design.

---

what seems odd is that it obviously requires a condition to cause the 2002. what is the condition it requires? the process does work or no one would be able to log in period, so some factor is obviously causing the disconnect in the first place, and only happens sometimes, or no one would be able to play...period.

software either works or it doesnt, it doesnt decide "oh I dont like you, goodbye" there is a condition being met somewhere that is prompting some people to get repeated 2002 errors while other never or hardly see them. I have been in 3700 person queues, dont babysit and get in fine after my wait. others on here may get mostly through then hit, or get in only 10 or 15 deep before it happens.

there seems to be little reason behind what causes it, but it does not seem completely random if you believe the same people are having the issue consistently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiaShino

The same corporation that authorized setting up one single datacenter to service multiple countries both in the Americas and the EU then thought, this will end well.

Meanwhile nearly every other publisher including EA has the common sense to understand that a minimum of three geographical regions should be covered for NA. Western (Cali), Central (Texas), Eastern (Chicago). I try not to get sassy with these posts but some things just boggle the mind.

---

back in the day with dialup you would have a point. these days... not so much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

Someone on reddit was nice enough to do a full technical analysis of the cause of the 2002 error...

---

So, first of all, thanks for sharing this, it's really interesting and its good to see someone posting something of actual value rather than just complaining.

It is actually pretty astonishing to me that the server would drop the connection every 15 minutes and force a new connection. I'd seen a few people claim they were getting 2002'd every 15 minutes and I was pretty skeptical because it didn't seem there would be any reason for the server to drop people from queue in 15 minute increments. But, this data does seem to indicate that's the case, not that it's dropping them from queue intentionally necessarily, but it is introducing the chance for it to happen for no apparent reason.

I do think you're oversimplifying a bit with some of what you say here. 2002 doesn't have nothing to do with the user's internet connection. If there is a problem with the user's internet connection, they will certainly see this error. But, it's definitely also fair to say that probably most of the errors that people are seeing don't have anything to do with their internet connection. I get these errors every time I have to sit in a queue, and I've always been on a wired connection. It also begs the question of why everyone experiences these 2002 disconnects but almost everyone has no problem maintaining a connection to the game once they're logged in if the problem is bad internet. Why can I hold one connection for many hours without issue, but can't with another connection?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

It has NOTHING to do with COVID as it an issue that goes back 7 years. It is how they choose to handle traffic to their servers and how this client is built.

---

The chip shortage is the reason we're seeing this issue as badly as we are right now. Since the issue is something that appears in 15 minute iterations while in queue, if you're in queue for less than 15 minutes, you'll never see it, even though the issue exists. If you're in queue for 15-29 minutes, you'll still probably not see it all that often, since it's not a 100% chance you'll lose the connection. But if you're in queue for hours and hours you're going to start seeing it a lot.

Previously, they could get by without fixing the login queue code, but that time is behind us. Not fixing this is going to cost them. They can buy themselves time by extending subscriptions, which I can't believe they still haven't announced anything beyond the original 7 days.

If a small interruption in a connection is all it takes to be kicked out of queue, the coding is bad. The client doesn't need to close. It should just keep retrying until it gets back in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

If you can solve the issue with a vpn... doesn't that confirm it's an issue with packet loss on the user end?

---

Based on the data provided, I'd say part of the problem does exist on the user's end, in the game client that the user has no control over. It should be trying to reconnect, not simply give up and exit itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belisaire

0 and have seen ups and downs but haven't seen Yoshi-P straight up misdirect like this. I'm also concerned that Square-Enix's angle seems to be to just pray the issue goes away.

---

I don't think that Yoshi-P is lying, I think he believes what he has said. It's doubtful that he has a technical understanding of what is happening with the login queue and he is going by information that he has been from the people who do (or are supposed to, as the case may be).

As time goes on, I begin to also have a concern that they aren't addressing the issue with the login queue code.

We'll see what happens... As I've said elsewhere, it is what it is. My advice to everyone is the same as what I'll do myself - if the next time your subscription renewal is about to happen, you feel like you aren't getting your money's worth, cancel your sub and wait until you hear the situation is improved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

the process does work or no one would be able to log in period

---

This is false, getting error 2002 doesn't prevent u from playing the game. It prevents u from logging into the game server IF u are not quick enough to just rejoin the queue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

or no one would be able to play...period.

---

Incorrect for the same reason above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

software either works or it doesnt

---

Again incorrect, software is not an ON/OFF switch, it can work and still have multiple bugs/issues. Please stop making assumptions based on ur own experience when u clearly got no idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

back in the day with dialup you would have a point. these days... not so much.

---

Huh? It is incredibly common for nodes across the Comcast i-bone to become oversaturated. This is.. basic networking stuffs here even for someone like me. It is even more important in modern era than dial up era to properly distribute data centers across large countries due to number of internet users constantly rising.

NTT nodes have been oversaturated for years resulting in still ongoing problems (90006). There is reason why most organizations have region based datacenters and this has been common practice for decades. When I self hosted I owned four virtual servers for good reason, spread out across the country.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

what seems odd is that it obviously requires a condition to cause the 2002. what is the condition it requires?

---

Yoshi P himself;
"In order to prevent a major login server outage, FFXIV has a limit of "no more than 17,000 total players waiting to log in per logical data center". This cap is set uniformly regardless of how many Worlds exist in a logical data center.

・ The Issue

If the total number of players waiting in the logical data center exceeds 17,000, Error 2002 will be displayed and you will not be able to queue for login."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiaShino

The same corporation that authorized setting up one single datacenter to service multiple countries both in the Americas and the EU then thought, this will end well.

Meanwhile nearly every other publisher including EA has the common sense to understand that a minimum of three geographical regions should be covered for NA. Western (Cali), Central (Texas), Eastern (Chicago). I try not to get sassy with these posts but some things just boggle the mind.

---

It's not much an issue, EU used to actually be in the same data center as NA back when they were in Montreal with their previous provider before they went to Frankfurt.

Would help latency, but it's not so much about traffic as NTT has the infrastructure being a Tier 1 provider, they had been mostly fault-free since SE relocated to their Sacramento facility, it was said it takes 20 racks to run just one world. So having 500+ in one data center allows flexibility, saves on costs. If they use say the NTT Dallas, Texas hub, then if there was any problems routing to Sacramento, every player in those worlds would feel the faults. They would have to substantially outgrow the data center to consider the additional cost of a new location.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kotisimus

This is false, getting error 2002 doesn't prevent u from playing the game. It prevents u from logging into the game server IF u are not quick enough to just rejoin the queue.

---

yes, but if it did not work AT ALL, then everyone would get 2002 and no one could log in. there are those that do not get this error. therefore, it is conditional. point out how that is "false"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kotisimus

Incorrect for the same reason above.

---

please feel free to post the entire part where I said, once in, the 2002 error would prevent you from playing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kotisimus

Again incorrect, software is not an ON/OFF switch, it can work and still have multiple bugs/issues. Please stop making assumptions based on ur own experience when u clearly got no idea.

---

did you even read and understand what I said?

I said, there is some condition being met that prompts the 2002 error. if software runs into a certain condition, it will error. not everyone is seeing this error. so a condition is being met which drops the connection. this does not happen for everyone. it is possible, can the software work with a bug, it certainly can, but the programmers have a running joke about bugs and errors being caused by "unintended application" which means the user is doing something outside the regular recommended workflow. in this case, something in the connection is causing an unintended response.

no need to be antagonistic, I am in no way saying its not a code issue, there are issues with their code no doubt. just pointing out that it seems consistent for some, but not all. which leads me to suspect its more than just bad code. good to know your first forum post was so benign. I get it, you are frustrated, a lot of people are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by technole

It's not much an issue, EU used to actually be in the same data center as NA back when they were in Montreal with their previous provider before they went to Frankfurt.

---

This is still issue. See;
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-REPLY-HERE%21
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...NTT-Failure%29
Or simply browse the tech support section, you will see numerous 90006 related threads appearing especially during prime time. Me and my partner cannot play without a vpn anymore because of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by technole

Would help latency, but it's not so much about traffic as NTT has the infrastructure being a Tier 1 provider, they had been mostly fault-free since SE relocated to their Sacramento facility,

---

There have been many documented issues between Comcast/Charter i-bone and NTT interconnection. Many of these are result in oversaturated junction nodes loading into the NTT network.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by technole

it was said it takes 20 racks to run just one world. So having 500+ in one data center allows flexibility, saves on costs.

---

This is correct. It does save costs in short term.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by technole

If they use say the NTT Dallas, Texas hub, then if there was any problems routing to Sacramento, every player in those worlds would feel the faults. They would have to substantially outgrow the data center to consider the additional cost of a new location.

---

English is not the native language so I am having some trouble interpreting this, many apologies! There should never be routing for the player between regional datacenters. That is purpose of regional distribution. If Sacramento is experiencing issues then players connected to the Dallas data centers will not experience connectivity issues.

I cannot say for the certainty but it appears they have indeed long outgrown their Cali datacenter. I have no metrics though for this so who knows? Perhaps there is still room there for more racks or expansion of number of connections between Comcast and NTT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

yes, but if it did not work AT ALL, then everyone would get 2002 and no one could log in.

---

And i repeat again, getting 2002 DOES NOT prevent u from logging in. It just disconnects u from the queue and u can jump back in at THE SAME position if u are fast enough to do so. So u are absolutely wrong when u state that "no one could log in".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

please feel free to post the entire part where I said, once in, the 2002 error would prevent you from playing?

---

You just said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

then everyone would get 2002 and no one could log in.

---

Which is incorrect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

did you even read and understand what I said?

---

Yes, hence the suggestion to stop making assumptions when u clearly got no idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

but the programmers have a running joke about bugs and errors being caused by "unintended application" which means the user is doing something outside the regular recommended workflow.

---

Me and my wife are playing over the same internet provider using exactly the same router from the same apartment. She will have error 2002 while i wont and in 1 hour i will have it and she wont. So i got no idea what the SE's "intended application" of their software is, but my wife and me where clearly using it as intended prior to EW since we were never getting error 2002 back then and suddenly we are NOT using it as intended after EW launch. Your logic is just flawed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larirawiel

They know this but maybe this behavior mitigates another bug. Even if it is hard imaginable.

---

It's very easy for connections passing through NAT to end up silently dropping; the client side doesn't see that the connection is dead until it tries to send something, but the server side sees that the client has disconnected. It's due to how a number of home routers/modems will handle NAT.

If they saw an issue back in ARR with the connections from behind a NAT setup dropping, I can easily see adding a safety measure where it refreshes the connection every so often to make sure the connection doesn't silently go 'poof'. I'm not sure it's the approach I'd personally have used in a scenario like that, though FFXIV's network code may have made it the most appropriate one for whatever reason, but it's an approach to things like that... and one I've seen used by other software elsewhere. So if the game is doing that, it absolutely could be an attempt to fix that issue.

After all, the 2002 errors are frustrating, but it'd be even worse if your connection got dropped silently and you sat there thinking you were still in queue, only to get unexpectedly disconnected the next time the game tried to refresh the connection. Holding your spot in queue and manually disconnecting you to make the connection get refreshed strikes me as the equivalent of going after a particularly persistent mosquito with a howitzer, but it will (generally) get rid of the mosquito.

And even if that isn't the reasoning, it could still be addressing something else. it could be that it's a load-balancing scenario, where when it bounces you it has the potential to ask you to reconnect to a different login server instead, and that provides a method to shuffle people around to keep any one login server in a pool from being too overloaded, or whatever.

But if that's the situation, I'd argue that still falls into 'archaic netcode' as listed by Catwho, or a closely-adjacent area. And is probably something where reworking the entire login system (and making sure the change it doesn't re-introduce whatever original quirk prompted the scenario) would likely be a not-small undertaking.

Masterminds at SE making desync algos to secretly sanitize session data from the login queue so their new game can look more popular - fooling the masses!

...they thought it was the perfect crime... BUT THEY NEVER SUSPECTED... WIRESHARK ANDY WITH HIS SIDEKICK BASIC FILTERING

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

Someone on reddit was nice enough to do a full technical analysis of the cause of the 2002 error and JUST LIKE everyone has been saying.

The server is resetting you client every 15 minutes and if it desyncs during this client reset it crashes the client.

This has nothing to do with your internet but an internal server side check done once that causes you client to crash.

Fix this now and stop blaming your consumers for internal coding issues.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0...jk/mobilebasic

Source: reddit user u/pitiful-marzipan

---

Imagine if we had a proper queue. Like once you queue your id gets put in the queue. and once it reached first place (or at least the group that designated to enter next) it should check if said client is actually connected and then boot you if it isnt. that way any amount of 2002 up to the point at least would not kick you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bertpocalypse

Masterminds at SE making desync algos to secretly sanitize session data from the login queue so their new game can look more popular - fooling the masses!

...they thought it was the perfect crime... BUT THEY NEVER SUSPECTED... WIRESHARK ANDY WITH HIS SIDEKICK BASIC FILTERING

---

Oh my oh my! What a useful and constructive post detailing how the aforementioned google doc is completely and utterly incorrect.
https://i.gifer.com/R99b.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Komarimono

Oh hey, I just tested something myself. I interrupted my connection to simulate a packet loss, for 0.10 ms. Queue was at 46. Guess what? I got an Error 2002.

So, guess they weren't lying, huh? Guess packet loss does lead to 2002 when waiting on queue.

---

That's really sensitive though. There are so, so, many things that do adjust for that scenario. Why can't the login queue? .10ms loss, BACK OF THE LINE! lol.

Imo that is still their issue, if such a tiny loss causes everything to be thrown into disarray, though I assume there are other more complicated issues behind that smaller more simple issue.

It may still be a user causing some of this problem but honestly the program /should/ be more robust than that. Packet loss is pretty common in a variety of situations (not saying it's good, but this is just a reality for many situations). For example the game itself is, you can R0 and it'll be able to recover it doesn't just go "MINOR DISRUPTION, GET OUT OF HERE". Some games can even hold you in the game for a second incase your connection returns, not kicking you out during that period (I like New World can do this, though that game shouldn't be used as a shining example of code probably..... lol).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

Someone on reddit was nice enough to do a full technical analysis of the cause of the 2002 error and JUST LIKE everyone has been saying.

The server is resetting you client every 15 minutes and if it desyncs during this client reset it crashes the client.

This has nothing to do with your internet but an internal server side check done once that causes you client to crash.

Fix this now and stop blaming your consumers for internal coding issues.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0...jk/mobilebasic

Source: reddit user u/pitiful-marzipan

---

It is the same thing with the 90k Errors.
They also try to blame us for that. I had them quite a lot and it was never my Connection cause every other Service was still online.
To negate their claims further: The mass reports of 90k Errors started with Endwalker. It would be kinda rediculous if the internet of a lot of people suddenly goes down the toilet because the Expansion of a MMO launched.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiaShino

Oh my oh my! What a useful and constructive post detailing how the aforementioned google doc is completely and utterly incorrect.
https://i.gifer.com/R99b.gif

---

i was going more for the conjecture theme tbh.

i wont deny there are problems - i don't think the intended message from the response regarding packet loss exacerbating issues with the lobby server was "blaming it all on macdonalds wifi - its not our fault at all".

i can never know how imperfect the login process is because i'm not sitting on the lobby/game/whatever servers code. its apparent in the document that neither is the author. there are alot more moving parts than just "highfives" to the lobby - the googledoc had me until it started making baseless opinions in this regard using a couple fin packets to prove the client wants a refresh.

my comment is more for the people buying into a conspiracy that SE is purposely sabotaging its own game while gaslighting its users.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kotisimus

*snip*

---

lol, fine, you win.

I have little interest in arguing on the internet so I will go back to playing the game.

have a wonderful day and hope your issue is sorted soon. good luck

So im not very computer smart but explain to me if i can play online games, serf the web and whatever without interuption but a 2002 error is my internet problem. Im not saying internet problems dont happen because they have but i have really good internet thats been really reliable so when there is an issue its pretty apparent. Not saying that internet problems cant cause it but shen i read that part there is no doubt that is the smallest percentage of the reason. In a nut shell in general they clearly should look at a new logging screen in general because we shouldnt have to relaunch and password all the time too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xenahawk

So im not very computer smart but explain to me if i can play online games, serf the web and whatever without interuption but a 2002 error is my internet problem. Im not saying internet problems dont happen because they have but i have really good internet thats been really reliable so when there is an issue its pretty apparent. Not saying that internet problems cant cause it but shen i read that part there is no doubt that is the smallest percentage of the reason. In a nut shell in general they clearly should look at a new logging screen in general because we shouldnt have to relaunch and password all the time too.

---

This is the problem with blaming your customers for an internally created issue. At some point people with really nice setups were going to check this issue before raising hell with their ISP's. For some reason they have yet to explain why their client restarts your connection every 15 minutes. If there is an issue during this check then it auto crashes your client after trying literally 1 time. The onerous is then put on the user to not only be forced to stare at a 5,000+ queues for HOURS but also to immediately rush back in or lose your spot in line.

It is really bad customer service and an apology does not fix this. Also praying it goes away with time does not simply address the core issue here that can easily be fixed. Just change the client to try multiple times to reconnect before d'c.n after one attempt. If this guys analysis is wrong than say that but do not tell people it is your ISP's fault for an internal client/server side check that you are initiating for no good actual reason.

Why Yoshi P and Square Enix do not understand how this could be insanely upsetting is just beyond me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bertpocalypse

i was going more for the conjecture theme tbh.

i wont deny there are problems - i don't think the intended message from the response regarding packet loss exacerbating issues with the lobby server was "blaming it all on macdonalds wifi - its not our fault at all".

---

Ohhh aye, that is not what I got from Yoshi P's posts either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bertpocalypse

i can never know how imperfect the login process is because i'm not sitting on the lobby/game/whatever servers code. its apparent in the document that neither is the author. there are alot more moving parts than just "highfives" to the lobby - the googledoc had me until it started making baseless opinions in this regard using a couple fin packets to prove the client wants a refresh.

---

It appears to be issue that primarily exists on the server end though can manifest on our end too. Attempting figuring out how their servers actually operate is umm, well it is not worth it. Endlessly sniffing packets back during the WoW emulator days was some of the most grueling and tiresome work I have ever ever done. The best we could do was "approximate" their back end stuffs and it was hell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bertpocalypse

my comment is more for the people buying into a conspiracy that SE is purposely sabotaging its own game while gaslighting its users.

---

Yup yup, I can agree with this. I see what is occurring more as general incompetence than grand conspiracy myself, which is staggeringly common in the field of system administration. Many apologies if I misunderstood your intent!

Reading Yoshi's post reads more as if he is suggesting to the user that they eliminate anything they can on their end so not to wait in more queues. It does not help that his language is JP and it doth not translate well to English.

To add on about the post with Wireshark. Most deductions like this is done with a multitude of testing environments, not just one user who we at face value allow him to say "I know what I'm talking about due to my field" which is fine.

But it's NOT fine that we take that as the ONLY piece of evidence and having a thread that tells us "CONCRETE PROOF".

That's not how this should EVER work given we have people playing on different platforms, and not everyone was participating with this study and trying out different environmentals.

That said, I do believe more than one factor is at play, and not just someone's internet and it's possible SE may have overlooked other things.

But the way there's people hanging on to this as the proof is bothersome. It reminds me greatly when the mass of people saw some reddit post about people crashing zones through Gathering clusters (when it wasn't even the case) and were hacking due to the amount they were getting. They were literally harassing YouTubers from ONE person's post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QT_Melon

But the way there's people hanging on to this as the proof is bothersome. It reminds me greatly when the mass of people saw some reddit post about people crashing zones through Gathering clusters (when it wasn't even the case) and were hacking due to the amount they were getting. They were literally harassing YouTubers from ONE person's post.

---

Feel free to post your evidence disputing this. It is pretty damn easy to reproduce. Just log on at about prime time and get in a 5k queue and wait. One part of the evidence about the client reset every 15min only take a 500 person queue to verify as that is easily longer then 15 minutes.

The primary issue is the client tries once before closing. It should not be closing at all. Forcing people to stare a queue to immediately relogin is what is causing this rage. If people could just not pay attention and watch Netflix while waiting they would not complain but the disconnect and being forced to watch a slow moving queue is just enraging.

There is no defending that statement from SE and then not understanding why people are mad. I would be mad also. At this point during prime time I have given up even trying to login to the MMO because being forced to have the client open and watch a 5k queue countdown is just ridiculous.

Wait, you mean the problems I get with FFXIV and NO OTHER GAME are actually not MY fault? But I was told (even though I have zero control over it and am not educated enough in computer science to prove otherwise) that the problem was from MY end??

Huh..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

Feel free to post your evidence disputing this. It is pretty damn easy to reproduce. Just log on at about prime time and get in a 5k queue and wait. One part of the evidence about the client reset every 15min only take a 500 person queue to verify as that is easily longer then 15 minutes.

The primary issue is the client tries once before closing. It should not be closing at all. Forcing people to stare a queue to immediately relogin is what is causing this rage. If people could just not pay attention and watch Netflix while waiting they would not complain but the disconnect and being forced to watch a slow moving queue is just enraging.

There is no defending that statement from SE and then not understanding why people are mad. I would be mad also. At this point during prime time I have given up even trying to login to the MMO because being forced to have the client open and watch a 5k queue countdown is just ridiculous.

---

My evidence during a 90 minute queue time was that I didn't disconnect or shut down. During peak time from CA. I had another queue that was 1 hr long and disconnected more than 4 times, I disconnected 8 times that day AFTER the fix.

What now? Do I put it on a google spreadsheet?

What about other platforms...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

The primary issue is the client tries once before closing. It should not be closing at all. Forcing people to stare a queue to immediately relogin is what is causing this rage. If people could just not pay attention and watch Netflix while waiting they would not complain but the disconnect and being forced to watch a slow moving queue is just enraging.

---

While I share the 2002 rage, I do suspect there's an actual rational reason behind it. My gut feeling is that our authentication is directly associated with a login session, and when the lobby server coughs up a hairball, that session dies. No session, no authentication. And the only way we can authenticate is to go back to the launcher and get a new token.

Obviously, there are ways around this; you could separate the two out, and then if the login session got nuked the authentication would still remain valid. But that does open up some security concerns (authentication can get way more complicated than it ought to...), and it would almost certainly require a not-small amount of rework on the login infrastructure. It would also likely not be a quick solution.

Mind you, this is all conjecture as I have neither the time nor inclination to hack apart FFXIV's authentication system. However, it would be in line with how authentication/login systems I have had to deal with in the past have sometimes handled things.

That said, even if I understand as an engineer why the client might need to close after a 2002 error, that understanding does nothing to lessen the frustration I feel when I hit a 2002 again and so end up back at the desktop again, fishing out my two-factor again to log in again...

*author begins gnawing on her keyboard in frustration*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Packetdancer

While I share the 2002 rage, I do suspect there's an actual rational reason behind it. My gut feeling is that our authentication is directly associated with a login session, and when the lobby server coughs up a hairball, that session dies. No session, no authentication. And the only way we can authenticate is to go back to the launcher and get a new token.

Obviously, there are ways around this; you could separate the two out, and then if the login session got nuked the authentication would still remain valid. But that does open up some security concerns (authentication can get way more complicated than it ought to...), and it would almost certainly require a not-small amount of rework on the login infrastructure. It would also likely not be a quick solution.

Mind you, this is all conjecture as I have neither the time nor inclination to hack apart FFXIV's authentication system. However, it would be in line with how authentication/login systems I have had to deal with in the past have sometimes handled things.

That said, even if I understand as an engineer why the client might need to close after a 2002 error, that understanding does nothing to lessen the frustration I feel when I hit a 2002 again and so end up back at the desktop again, fishing out my two-factor again to log in again...

*author begins gnawing on her keyboard in frustration*

---

I really think it's something around this idea ^.

I doubt Yoshida would be laughing to the bank purposefully over some change a var issue, but I also doubt that these 2002 are entirely my issue (given things like packet loss can be made more robust and not assume a few moments of miscommunication turns into an inferno of wasted time in line). It seems plausible to me that our end is not helping the matter, but I do think the launcher would be nice if it tried harder to save me in the water than vaguely wave towards the life vest. Yet I imagine it doesn't because of reasons like you said, there is some issue that it's not so simple and changing it poorly could make it all even worse. Which isn't me saying "do nothing", just that I think that's the situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

Someone on reddit was nice enough to do a full technical analysis of the cause of the 2002 error and JUST LIKE everyone has been saying.

The server is resetting you client every 15 minutes and if it desyncs during this client reset it crashes the client.

This has nothing to do with your internet but an internal server side check done once that causes you client to crash.

Fix this now and stop blaming your consumers for internal coding issues.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0...jk/mobilebasic

Source: reddit user u/pitiful-marzipan

---

Thank you for this evidence. Very interesting.

I guess at this point, after seeing this, I kinda want SE to come out and deny it if this is in fact not correct. It seems pretty irrefutable from my seat. Kudos to the person that put this together.

You have to remember. This is the same company that makes it a challenge just to buy the game. This isn't that far'fetched at all.

If they were smart, they'd blame trump.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cadmar

I guess at this point, after seeing this, I kinda want SE to come out and deny it if this is in fact not correct. It seems pretty irrefutable from my seat. Kudos to the person that put this together.

---

It literally just happened to me. Sitting in a 4.5k queue. First 15min check goes fine with no shut down but the 2nd one exactly 15min later tanks the game and I get a 2002 error.

Logged back on because like I said you have to stare at this stupid queue but it did save my spot. If I had waited even 1 minute then too bad to the back of the line.

Just sat in queue for an hour and was just getting under 1k. Stepped away for less than 5 minutes (to feed my dogs) and got the 2002 while I was away. Now I am back to over 3k in queue. Are you really expecting everyone waiting in queue to literally sit there the entire time not doing anything but watch the dang queue?

I know this is not my internet. The queues are one thing but to make people literally sit there and watch the paint dry JUST IN CASE a 2002 happens is about as horrid of a customer experience as I can think of.

Ive been loving this game since I came back. All I wish to do is play. I can wait in the queues. However disconnecting in the middle of the queue is ridiculous and we are being punished for not being able to step away for a couple minutes here or there.

See, this is something that SE should be able to control. Basically from what I've read, if I'm understanding it right, all it would take for the 2002 issue to be minimalized or at least mostly fixed would be a logic cycle that instead of a single reconnect try during that 15 minute disconnect, boost the number upwards. Having it be just one seems to the issue. Upping the code to attempt more reconnect chances would seem to be at least a partial answer, here.

Nice find and very interesting read.

I don't really think OP has any concrete proof.
Basically Japanese side agreed this is client side issue (player) and suggested the following 3 methods (copy word to word)

対策方法1：WiFiの接続方法をIEEE802.11nに変える
もし11acで無線接続している場合は通信品質が悪いことが多いので、速度が気になるところですが11nで接続しなおしましょう。
11acは通信速度が速い特性がありますが、障害物に弱い
11nは11acよりも通信速度は遅いが、障害物に強い
障害物を超えるごとに電波はどんどん弱くなっていきます。

This is to suggest to change type of WIFI connection from 11ac to 11n and basically concluded:
11a provides higher speed but signal will be weaker if there are obstacle (like metallic/concrete object)
11n is slower but stronger if there are obstacles

対策方法2：次世代通信方式11axが使えるルーターに変える
11axは超高速通信規格でWi-Fi 6と呼ばれるものです。
11axは「11acと11nの良いとこどり＆通信速度が速い性質の電波」で通信品質も格別です。

This method is to suggest to switch to WiFi - 6

対策方法3：LANケーブルで接続する
まあ、確実ですね…。
ルーターが近くにあってパソコンやPS4と接続可能であれば検討してみてください。
なお、LANケーブルは見た目は全く同じでも規格があり、古すぎると通信速度・品質に影響が出る場合があります。

Last method is to suggest is to just abandon wifi and use direct cable connection.
Simple and straight foward.

They also suggest to not have anti-virus program to be running at back ground.

After SE patch, I am experiencing only 2 x 2002 from previous 8 x 2002.
This is my computer environment:

This new i7 CPU with 3080 GPU is connect via direct cable, no wifi
As the system is for gaming only (no surfing, no youtube), there is no anti virus program since i am not installing anything beside steam games.
My router is pretty old that bought 6 years ago and i assume that is why i am still encounter 2002 occasionally
I bought the new wifi6 router and will see if i am still having 2002 after installation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

I don't really think OP has any concrete proof.
Basically Japanese side agreed this is client side issue (player) and suggested the following 3 methods (copy word to word)

対策方法1：WiFiの接続方法をIEEE802.11nに変える
もし11acで無線接続している場合は通信品質が悪いことが多いので、速度が気になるところですが11nで接続しなおしましょう。
11acは通信速度が速い特性がありますが、障害物に弱い
11nは11acよりも通信速度は遅いが、障害物に強い
障害物を超えるごとに電波はどんどん弱くなっていきます。

This is to suggest to change type of WIFI connection from 11ac to 11n and basically concluded:
11a provides higher speed but signal will be weaker if there are obstacle (like metallic/concrete object)
11n is slower but stronger if there are obstacles

対策方法2：次世代通信方式11axが使えるルーターに変える
11axは超高速通信規格でWi-Fi 6と呼ばれるものです。
11axは「11acと11nの良いとこどり＆通信速度が速い性質の電波」で通信品質も格別です。

This method is to suggest to switch to WiFi - 6

対策方法3：LANケーブルで接続する
まあ、確実ですね…。
ルーターが近くにあってパソコンやPS4と接続可能であれば検討してみてください。
なお、LANケーブルは見た目は全く同じでも規格があり、古すぎると通信速度・品質に影響が出る場合があります。

Last method is to suggest is to just abandon wifi and use direct cable connection.
Simple and straight foward.

They also suggest to not have anti-virus program to be running at back ground.

After SE patch, I am experiencing only 2 x 2002 from previous 8 x 2002.
This is my computer environment:

This new i7 CPU with 3080 GPU is connect via direct cable, no wifi
As the system is for gaming only (no surfing, no youtube), there is no anti virus program since i am not installing anything beside steam games.
My router is pretty old that bought 6 years ago and i assume that is why i am still encounter 2002 occasionally
I bought the new wifi6 router and will see if i am still having 2002 after installation

---

Did you read the google doc and the investigation the person did?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

I don't really think OP has any concrete proof.
Basically Japanese side agreed this is client side issue (player) and suggested the following 3 methods (copy word to word)

対策方法1：WiFiの接続方法をIEEE802.11nに変える
もし11acで無線接続している場合は通信品質が悪いことが多いので、速度が気になるところですが11nで接続しなおしましょう。
11acは通信速度が速い特性がありますが、障害物に弱い
11nは11acよりも通信速度は遅いが、障害物に強い
障害物を超えるごとに電波はどんどん弱くなっていきます。

This is to suggest to change type of WIFI connection from 11ac to 11n and basically concluded:
11a provides higher speed but signal will be weaker if there are obstacle (like metallic/concrete object)
11n is slower but stronger if there are obstacles

対策方法2：次世代通信方式11axが使えるルーターに変える
11axは超高速通信規格でWi-Fi 6と呼ばれるものです。
11axは「11acと11nの良いとこどり＆通信速度が速い性質の電波」で通信品質も格別です。

This method is to suggest to switch to WiFi - 6

対策方法3：LANケーブルで接続する
まあ、確実ですね…。
ルーターが近くにあってパソコンやPS4と接続可能であれば検討してみてください。
なお、LANケーブルは見た目は全く同じでも規格があり、古すぎると通信速度・品質に影響が出る場合があります。

Last method is to suggest is to just abandon wifi and use direct cable connection.
Simple and straight foward.

They also suggest to not have anti-virus program to be running at back ground.

After SE patch, I am experiencing only 2 x 2002 from previous 8 x 2002.
This is my computer environment:

This new i7 CPU with 3080 GPU is connect via direct cable, no wifi
As the system is for gaming only (no surfing, no youtube), there is no anti virus program since i am not installing anything beside steam games.
My router is pretty old that bought 6 years ago and i assume that is why i am still encounter 2002 occasionally
I bought the new wifi6 router and will see if i am still having 2002 after installation

---

this really an i do mean REALLLY seems like they are only catering to jap people .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArkenaeuxBelmont

Did you read the google doc and the investigation the person did?

---

Yes, I did.
It is a theory, not a proof.
I also said it is suggestions because whatever Japanese is suggest is also a theory
No IT tech is able to recreate same environment for each player's system
I only can tell you SE is not intend to lie about 2002 because their IT is truly believed it is client side issue.
This is a blog from a Japanese player in regard to 2002 at year 2014 (not provide name due to privacy:

2014/02/06 09:49 3
ロビーサーバー接続でエラー2002の対処法
[エラー2002]
公開
昨日からエラーで入れなかった件ですが

GAME　START

をクリックしましてデータセンターに接続表示後

ロビーサーバー接続でエラーが発生しました（2002）

と出て入れなかったわけですが

問い合わせメールの返信が来ました。内容は最後にコピペしときます。

自分の原因はですがセキュリティーソフトのバグ？でした。

普通でない状態だったらしく立ち上げて更新とかクイックスキャンとかできることを片っ端からやって閉じたら

FF14に入れるようになってました。このエラーは向こうに原因はなくPCか回線の問題みたいですね。

ともかく入れてよかった。


ではコピペ

Basically, SE IT tech inform him 2002 is player's PC connection issue and this JP player fixed it by turn off the antivirus program: there is a bug with security soft (セキュリティーソフトのバグ)

After the patch, I on average only encounter 2002 twice and my system environment is cleaner than most of FF14 players because this system is dedicate to gaming only. No other 3rd party software including discord. I bought the new wifi6 router, i will update if i am still getting same 2002 frequency
The question is, as a game producer, who should Yoship believe? His own IT tech team who able to provide steady service before WoW exodus or some google document and no idea who the author is?