On Extreme Role-playing Within XIV

I think a big problem is, at least from personal experience, even just having it in your search info that you rp as a garlean or an ascian is enough for people to harass you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hysorn

It also does require you to unnaturally feel like you and your character are the same to feel offended by it as well. I mean, I have yet to feel offended when a Garlean calls me "EORZEAN SAVAGE!!!1!" during the story, can't see why it would be any different in Roleplay, especially since you can talk back to players.

Then again, I used to roleplay in WoW and let me tell you, almost every nightborne, blood, void and night elves tended to be prettyyyyyy elvish levels of xenophobic.

---

Indeed, and that sort of RP in WoW was fun and manifested across a number of different races in its own way. It added depth to the RP as you were able to play out the conflicts in the setting on a more individual level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Batbrat

Personally, I think it's way too far and even tiring to even THINK about this idea of "if you're someone who RPs as hating lalas then you're racist irl" I just. I'm so tired. It's both a joke and insult. Like please do not put a lalafell hater on the same level as someone who would gun me down simply for breathing, do not insult me like that. If you can't comprehend why even insinuating that someone pretending to be racist against made up characters is awful, I don't know what to tell you other than you're apparently extremely sheltered and perhaps are consuming way too much fiction. Please read about reality sometimes too. The two will never compare, it'll never be the same, you will never be the leader of morality that you think you are attempting to pull that self indulgent little trick.

---

^This.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floortank

I mean, duh. If you think "don't roleplay" was the point of my message, man I hope I never get stuck RPing with you.

---

No, I understood your message - you tried reducing the OP's motives in the sort of RP they're after to little more than wanting to be edgy for its own sake. Had your point been phrased as "it won't land well with everyone, so try finding likeminded people to do it with" I might have agreed. Same with the idea that there are good and bad ways of doing it. With that said, rest assured, there is zero risk of us ever RPing, as Crystal is not exactly my destination of choice. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floortank

Don't be obtuse. All roleplaying is a wish fulfilment. It's right there in the name. Role. Playing.

I want to be a big ol' racist is a choice, sure. But don't expect people to understand it or accept it.

You will find that most ideas in RP, whether they are controversial or not, tend to end up divisive. Maybe start smaller and try your best not to be misunderstood.

---

You may see role-play as mere wish fulfilment but that isn't the case across the board. Many people enjoy playing complicated characters with deeper issues to overcome. Or they want to play an antagonist/anti-hero because they have genuine stakes at play in the narrative compared to the protagonists who stand to lose very little by comparison.

I think that you are making an awful lot of assumptions. For starters, where did I say that my character is racist? He's perfectly open to working with people who aren't of Garlemald on a case by case basis.

I don't know why I'd need to 'start smaller', either. I've been role-playing for years with no issues across a number of MMO's. FFXIV just happens to have a particularly high number of unhinged role-players who cannot separate the character from the role-player. I'm not going to avoid role-playing something that interests me to appease the overly delicate and often spitefully hypocritical sensibilities of those with a perpetual chip atop their shoulders.

I'd also note, that the game itself has players from all over the world. As such, expecting everyone to have the exact same interests and abide by the exact same opinions/stances is something I find to be rather strange. Each to their own, but if two role-players do not seem like a good fit for one another they do not need to interact and can part ways in a civil manner.

In my experience, however, there's a number of individuals who go out of their way to attack anyone who dares role-play to 'wrong' type of character. Simply role-playing a Garlean, regardless of background or alignment, is enough for some to receive death threats. I know people who play Garlean defectors who have received such unfortunate treatment.

It's just a fun hobby at the end of the day. I also think that it isn't anybody's responsibility to entertain the unreasonable expectations and limitations that some seek to impose upon everybody else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Setesh45

Such lengthy discussions about this when it's so simple. Nobody wants to be around a dick like that.

---

And this is where the thread should have ended.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Care to explain? Like around a character that is a dick, or are you saying the person who creates the character is a dick?

---

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if someone decides to RP as a racist character...it's a little bit of both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

And this is where the thread should have ended.



Personally, I'm of the opinion that if someone decides to RP as a racist character...it's a little bit of both.

---

Do you feel if the character is done poorly the person is a dick or just the general concept makes the person a dick? Just seems weird to judge a person based off a character they have created. I have met many racist characters that were done tastefully and were a joy to RP with, it is all in the evacuation. Though tbh it seems like just the concept alone seems to annoy people and even is used as a metric to judge the creator by,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Do you feel if the character is done poorly the person is a dick or just the general concept makes the person a dick? Just seems weird to judge a person based off a character they have created. I have met many racist characters that were done tastefully and were a joy to RP with, it is all in the evacuation. Though tbh it seems like just the concept alone seems to annoy people and even is used as a metric to judge the creator by,

---

I don't think my post needs any more explanation. I have nothing more to add.

Some of these takes show exactly why 14 is becoming stale, and just not the rp scene. It's dreadfully tame and neatly packaged. There is no exploration on the themes presented, just surface level grazing. To allow and push for certain "extremity" of thoughts and characters makes the game far more diverse. Something that it currently lacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caurcas

Some of these takes show exactly why 14 is becoming stale, and just not the rp scene. It's dreadfully tame and neatly packaged. There is no exploration on the themes presented, just surface level grazing. To allow and push for certain "extremity" of thoughts and characters makes the game far more diverse. Something that it currently lacks.

---

I believe there is plenty of potential in what you mentioned post-6.0. I'm certainly hoping for it, at least. I want to see more stories like the Bloody Banquet, where the line between good and bad becomes blurred and the protagonists are backed against the wall. I've never seen such an emotional response to any other part of the MSQ from the community than the Bloody Banquet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

And this is where the thread should have ended.



Personally, I'm of the opinion that if someone decides to RP as a racist character...it's a little bit of both.

---

This tbh. If you're roleplaying as a racist character, I don't really want to talk to you - while it might not mean you yourself are racist, I just don't want to deal with that stuff in general.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think a problem with a lot of people's roleplay is that they can't separate themselves from their character. Rather, the character isn't a unique entity, it is them (the player) in the game world. Where they bring their real life ideologies, and feelings, into the game; they tend to take their roleplay personally, which can lead to heated exchanges. Granted, on the other side people can also take extreme role playing too far, and hide behind that as "just roleplay" as well, not going to say that doesn't happen.

---

This is a better detailed post on the issues of XIV's RP scene.

You do what you like with people around you who consent to the experience. Do not involve others who are unknown quantities and you have no idea how they'll react or who might internalize your "role play".

Otherwise have at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I don't think my post needs any more explanation. I have nothing more to add.

---

That is fair, though does seem oddly unfair to discount a person in their entirety due to a character they have created, but to each their own. I do not feel you explained your stance well but I will take it at face value and leave it at that.


That said I will say this community does seem to slightly closed minded which also lends itself to such discussions even being a thing in the first place. RP is all about exploring different views and characters at least in my opinion. Shutting off interactions at the root does not lend itself to fostering a healthy and welcoming environment.

In the end I do agree RP can be used in the same vain as it is a prank, which is unfortunate but those bad actors should not put a blemish on a certain type of character. Extreme characters can be done well and create some wonderful story exchanges especially between characters that have a fundamentally different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

That is fair, though does seem oddly unfair to discount a person in their entirety due to a character they have created, but to each their own.


That said I will say this community does seem to slightly closed minded which also lends itself to such discussions even being a thing in the first place. RP is all about exploring different views and characters at least in my opinion. Shutting off interactions at the root does not lend itself to fostering a healthy and welcoming environment.

---

Imploring that people interact with those who they find uncomfortable to be around also does not lend itself to fostering a healthy and welcoming environment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

That said I will say this community does seem to slightly closed minded

---

Honestly, as far as everything is concerned, being called slightly close minded for not wanting to deal with even pretend racism is kinda not the worst thing lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

Honestly, as far as everything is concerned, being called slightly close minded for not wanting to deal with even pretend racism is kinda not the worst thing lol

---

But most of the detracting takes have been acting the person behind the character rather than the idea of such things happening between characters within a narrative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Imploring that people interact with those who they find uncomfortable to be around also does not lend itself to fostering a healthy and welcoming environment.

---

Uncomfortable with what though? Does it make sense to feel uncomfortable towards lalafell hate comments? Just strikes me as weird to feel uncomfortable towards racist remarks mad at the expense of a “character” though with that said if someone does not want to RP with another that is fine. I still think it is a shame to close off potentially wonderful RP encounters due to a outside bias that is just me.

My issue more so stems from the view that people seem to think a person is a dick because of the character they have created. That is the part I find unwelcoming and does not foster a healthy environment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

Honestly, as far as everything is concerned, being called slightly close minded for not wanting to deal with even pretend racism is kinda not the worst thing lol

---

That is fair, but I just hope people do not go around and judge a person on a personally level due to the type of characters they create because from an RP POV that is unwelcoming and unfair IMO.

I hate lalafells. Plz don’t cancel me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I hate lalafells. Plz don’t cancel me.

---

We are just not food to be toyed with, we also have feelings.

I think people are taking this absolute approach due to the topic which is kinda sad and maybe does lend itself to the theory that we have become overly sensitive. Though hey I welcome all types of characters if they are written and portrayed well, awesome. It is true they are not easy to make an interesting extreme character that do not become cliche stereotypes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Uncomfortable with what though? Does it make sense to feel uncomfortable towards lalafell hate comments? Just strikes me as weird to feel uncomfortable towards racist remarks mad at the expense of a “character” though with that said if someone does not want to RP with another that is fine. I still think it is a shame to close off potentially wonderful RP encounters due to a outside bias that is just me.

My issue more so stems from the view that people seem to think a person is a dick because of the character they have created. That is the part I find unwelcoming and does not foster a healthy environment.

---

I find people who make racist remarks uncomfortable to be around. Don't think that needs explaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I find people who make racist remarks uncomfortable to be around. Don't think that needs explaining.

---

Damn, with the amount of racist remarks made towards lalafells you must feel uncomfortable around a lot of people. I am sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Damn, with the amount of racist remarks made towards lalafells you must feel uncomfortable around a lot of people. I am sorry.

---

https://c.tenor.com/JEIsNE9trB0AAAAC/facepalm-no.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

https://c.tenor.com/JEIsNE9trB0AAAAC/facepalm-no.gif

---

I mean that is the topic we are talking about racist remarks made about characters not people. So I mean you must feel uncomfortable a lot of time in FFXIV since the amount of racist lalafell jokes made on a daily basis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

I mean that is the topic we are talking about racist remarks made about characters not people. So I mean you must feel uncomfortable a lot of time in FFXIV since the amount of racist lalafell jokes made on a daily basis.

---

Intentionally or unintentionally, you’re tossing massive red flags my way so I’m dipping out of this. Continue to dumb down peoples responses, if you want. I just want no part in your ridiculous conversation anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Intentionally or unintentionally, you’re tossing massive red flags my way so I’m dipping out of this. Continue to dumb down peoples responses, if you want. I just want no part in your ridiculous conversation anymore.

---

Or is it you are interjecting a standard that should not be put into play when it comes to a discussion about characters, and not people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Or is it you are interjecting a standard that should not be put into play when it comes to a discussion about characters, and not people.

---

reading comprehension might not be a strong suit of yours, and that’s understandable. it might take a second reading to really sink in, and that’s fine! here, i’ll help you so you don’t have to go scrolling through a bunch of messages:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

This tbh. If you're roleplaying as a racist character, I don't really want to talk to you - while it might not mean you yourself are racist, I just don't want to deal with that stuff in general.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

reading comprehension might not be a strong suit of yours, and that’s understandable. it might take a second reading to really sink in, and that’s fine! here, i’ll help you so you don’t have to go scrolling through a bunch of messages:

---

As mentioned you must feel uncomfortable fairly frequently due to the amount of lalafell hate, or are you saying lalafell do not count. Cause I am willing to bet everyone has made at least one joke that could be seen as racist towards lalafell. Reading comprehension might not be your strong suit.

Just saying the stance is flawed, or are you saying comments made while in RP only count, and those made OOC are okay? In that is the case your standard is kinda weird.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

As mentioned you must feel uncomfortable fairly frequently due to the amount of lalafell hate, or are you saying lalafell do not count. Cause I am willing to bet everyone has made at least one joke that could be seen as racist towards lalafell. Reading comprehension might not be your strong suit.

---

to emphasize, since it seems you’ve yet again failed to fully comprehend the weight if what i said:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

This tbh. If you're roleplaying as a racist character, I don't really want to talk to you - while it might not mean you yourself are racist, I just don't want to deal with that stuff in general.

---

i fully understand glazing over to pick out words you’re more prone to zeroing in on, so it might help you to fully read what i said, and maybe even think about it for longer than the time it takes to respond.

regardless, i said i was dipping out of this conversation and as such, i’m dipping out. have fun deliberately misunderstanding what people say to suit your own narrative, because i’m sure it must be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

to emphasize, since it seems you’ve yet again failed to fully comprehend the weight if what i said:



i fully understand glazing over to pick out words you’re more prone to zeroing in on, so it might help you to fully read what i said, and maybe even think about it for longer than the time it takes to respond.

regardless, i said i was dipping out of this conversation and as such, i’m dipping out. have fun deliberately misunderstanding what people say to suit your own narrative, because i’m sure it must be.

---

So role playing a racist character is a no no for you, but making hateful OOC remarks about lalafell are okay? Even though both are about characters that do not really exist? That is a weird standard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

So role playing a racist character is a no no for you, but making hateful OOC remarks about lalafell are okay?

---

Did they ever say anything about OOC?
Can you quote what they said for me? Because I must have missed it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

Did they ever say anything about OOC?
Can you quote what they said for me? Because I must have missed it.

---

I am just wondering, if that is not the case then they should very well feel very uncomfortable in game due to the racist remarks made the the expense of lalafell. If they do not then it means that OOC comments towards lalafell are okay. Also read the only comments I have made, they are the one focusing on the RP aspect after my lalafell comment, so following that it must be safe to assume only RP matters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caurcas

But most of the detracting takes have been acting the person behind the character rather than the idea of such things happening between characters within a narrative.

---

Tbf, there's a time and a place for such characters to shred a light on their xenophobia. In a story-driven event, "conflict within party" trope can be interesting if it's something more than throwing a bunch of insults here and there. I don't have much expirience with roleplay in FF, but all the public events I see advertised is something I know as "tavern craft" — bunch of strangers just chilling in a pub 6 feet apart cuz they're not gay basically. That situation rarely calls for unwanted remarks, if at all. Person who goes to a group of strangers just to pick on them or turn the conversation that way either gets ignored or smaked on the head. Same thing applies to characters. There's just not much place for playing Xaela ultra nationalist in a multicultural dance club, for example. At least not with pre-planning. I higly doubt you can DM someone with "Can my char be rasist towards yours for RP reasons?" and get a positive responce. And without consent, that's just gonna ruin other peoples time and probably yours as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

I am just wondering, if that is not the case then they should very well feel very uncomfortable in game due to the racist remarks made the the expense of lalafell. If they do not then it means that OOC comments towards lalafell are okay. Also read the only comments I have made, they are the one focusing on the RP aspect after my lalafell comment, so following that it must be safe to assume only RP matters.

---

the thread is about roleplay. i’d assume that much like most in this thread, you’d want to remain on topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

Did they ever say anything about OOC?
Can you quote what they said for me? Because I must have missed it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

the thread is about roleplay. i’d assume that much like most in this thread, you’d want to remain on topic.

---

So it appears OOC hateful remarks towards lalafell are okay, because it is not RP, but being around someone who makes racist remarks makes them uncomfortable. Though they are able to make a difference between such comments when they come to OOC, but not RP. I cannot be the only one that views that as a weird standard since both are around characters that do not exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

So it appears OOC hateful remarks towards lalafell are okay, because it is not RP, but being around someone who makes racist remarks makes them uncomfortable. Though they are able to make a difference between such comments when they come to OOC, but not RP. I cannot be the only one that views that as a weird standard since both are around characters that do not exist.

---

It really sounds like you're putting words in their mouth.
Where did they say any of this?
Please quote it to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

It really sounds like you're putting words in their mouth.
Where did they say any of this?
Please quote it to me.

---

Hey, I have asked them to clarify and that is how they choose to clarify so as such I think it is safe to assume that is their stance.

To be fair I do not hold that against them, I do think everyone has made a joke at the expense of a lalafell, which is why I find the stance within this very thread so weird. Cause we make jokes that could be seen as racist all the time toward other characters and for the most part people do not bat an eyelash, but when it comes to RP all of sudden it becomes a taboo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Hey, I have asked them to clarify and that is how they choose to clarify so as such I think it is safe to assume that is their stance.

To be fair I do not hold that against them, I do think everyone has made a joke at the expense of a lalafell, which is why I find the stance within this very thread so weird. Cause we make jokes that could be seen as racist all the time toward other characters and for the most part people do not bat an eyelash, but when it comes to RP all of sudden it becomes a taboo.

---

if you wish to discuss OOC comments in a different thread, or heck even the off topic discussion megathread, then feel free to do so. but me saying i find people roleplaying racist characters as uncomfortable to be around does not mean anything other than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hatfright

Tbf, there's a time and a place for such characters to shred a light on their xenophobia. In a story-driven event, "conflict within party" trope can be interesting if it's something more than throwing a bunch of insults here and there. I don't have much expirience with roleplay in FF, but all the public events I see advertised is something I know as "tavern craft" — bunch of strangers just chilling in a pub 6 feet apart cuz they're not gay basically. That situation rarely calls for unwanted remarks, if at all. Person who goes to a group of strangers just to pick on them or turn the conversation that way either gets ignored or smaked on the head. Same thing applies to characters. There's just not much place for playing Xaela ultra nationalist in a multicultural dance club, for example. At least not with pre-planning. I higly doubt you can DM someone with "Can my char be rasist towards yours for RP reasons?" and get a positive responce. And without consent, that's just gonna ruin other peoples time and probably yours as well.

---

That is as dull as dishwasher if it makes up the majority of the rp scene. It does not make use of lore, it does not make use of the world, and it is a narrative devoid of soul. In my opinion it's not but cringey discount second life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Hey, I have asked them to clarify and that is how they choose to clarify so as such I think it is safe to assume that is their stance.

---

They chose to clarify by reiterating they haven't addressed people making OOC comments and would like to keep the conversation on topic.
I don't think it's "safe to assume" anything about their stance on OOC comments lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilkieTea

if you wish to discuss OOC comments in a different thread, or heck even the off topic discussion megathread, then feel free to do so. but me saying i find people roleplaying racist characters as uncomfortable to be around does not mean anything other than that.

---

Fine, be transparent then. Do you find OOC comments made towards lalafell uncomfortable, like the memes and jokes that are made at the expense of them? It falls within the scope of the thread cause depending on where you stand it will either weaken or strengthen your position and will more or less put this tangent to rest. In the end if you are really concerned about keeping the tread on topic you would just answer the questions instead of beating around the bush as to where you stand on OOC comments made towards other characters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

They chose to clarify by reiterating they haven't addressed people making OOC comments and would like to keep the conversation on topic.
I don't think it's "safe to assume" anything about their stance on OOC comments lol.

---

I think it is safe to assume such a stance if they refuse to clarify and or use their stance this is about RP as a point mean to clarify especially after they have made comments like I am simplifying their stance, normally one would not say that unless their is a but in this case such actions are okay.

Why does RPing bring so much drama?