More action oriented combat{again}

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I don't even know when anyone said easy >.> it's a safe system to implement. It's safe because they know it will work, it's defiantly not the best system(AA that is), but it works, people are used to it. I would like you to show me parser of mass damage on every class with the old system >.> if you are going to say that. Come on now, that's a silly argument.

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Don't even bother with "it", Rokien.

I think the previous battle system was really underrated and could really be fun and engaging if it had been built correctly, since it was more action oriented. Unfortunatly, it ended up being smash attack all over.

As such, the masses like AA and it's what all the other MMOs have and this game is lacking on standards. So I'd rather they just focus on fun and challenging content for the current system.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just sped the AA a bit. 4 sec between each attack is kinda slow ;P

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Originally Posted by fusional

if AA is so "safe" and "easy" with the directional combo system, you should be able to show me parses of you doing elite damage on boss mobs, right? and the majority of other players in the community should be able to match that elite damage, since it's so easy, right? right?

a lot of people talk shit about the 'ease' of a system they aren't even good at themselves. so that's interesting.

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2nd this. I'm sure everyone talking about how easy auto attack is has beaten all the *looks at profiles* some of the content...

Gripe all you want, your not getting manual attacks back people.

Im kinda just skimming this thread here but i have two things to add:

the Active Time Battle system is an awesome tradition in FF, dont see any reason to abandon it (before you call me out, it seems to me all FF's battle systems are somewhat derived from this concept). Its a more strategic, thoughtful battle system and I for one have loved it since I first encountered it. To go shooter-style is just not FF imo

And not to mention, if you want a point and shoot...you need something to point with. You really want to dedicate one of your two hands to aiming with a mouse in a text-heavy mmorpg? It would basically make voice chat mandatory >.<; eff that shit.

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Originally Posted by Destain

2nd this. I'm sure everyone talking about how easy auto attack is has beaten all the *looks at profiles* some of the content...

Gripe all you want, your not getting manual attacks back people.

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What are you guys even getting at with this easy AA crap.... I don't even....

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

Im kinda just skimming this thread here but i have two things to add:

the Active Time Battle system is an awesome tradition in FF, dont see any reason to abandon it (before you call me out, it seems to me all FF's battle systems are somewhat derived from this concept). Its a more strategic, thoughtful battle system and I for one have loved it since I first encountered it. To go shooter-style is just not FF imo

And not to mention, if you want a point and shoot...you need something to point with. You really want to dedicate one of your two hands to aiming with a mouse in a text-heavy mmorpg? It would basically make voice chat mandatory >.<; eff that shit.

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You can have all that, also people already use chat more than text, you know how I know? Because I hardly use voice chat, and when i'm trying to figure out whats going on, noone responds, why? Because they are not paying attention to the chat box. So your point is invalid my friend. Also I use controller now, during a fight I don't have time to set down my controller and type out a message.

What's wrong with going in there, comming out, and discussing the fight?

EDIT: Oh I can set my controller down on blm, because really all I'm doing on blm is spamming 123,123,123,123,123,123,123. Blm is sooo fun just spamming thunder thundara maybe thundaga..... Ya this system is REVOLUTIONARY!!

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Originally Posted by Rokien

You can have all that, also people already use chat more than text, you know how I know? Because I hardly use voice chat, and when i'm trying to figure out whats going on, noone responds, why? Because they are not paying attention to the chat box. So your point is invalid my friend. Also I use controller now, during a fight I don't have time to set down my controller and type out a message.

What's wrong with going in there, comming out, and discussing the fight?

EDIT: Oh I can set my controller down on blm, because really all I'm doing on blm is spamming 123,123,123,123,123,123,123. Blm is sooo fun just spamming thunder thundara maybe thundaga..... Ya this system is REVOLUTIONARY!!

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err....whut? how is my point invalid? you lost me bro

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

err....whut? how is my point invalid? you lost me bro

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5
the voice chat. This game is already 80% voice chat 20% text >.>

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Originally Posted by Rokien

5
the voice chat. This game is already 80% voice chat 20% text >.>

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one of my pet peeves is when people make up %'s and present them as facts.

it's not by design rokien. nor should it be. ever. you can play this game just fine without it. to introduce pont-and-shoot would change that. also, ATB is cool shit, leave it alone.

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

it's not by design rokien. nor should it be. ever. you can play this game just fine without it. to introduce pont-and-shoot would change that. also, ATB is cool shit, leave it alone.

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we don't even have ATB.... -.- I don't wait for a bar to charge up

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

one of my pet peeves is when people make up %'s and present them as facts.

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I presented on my own experience

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Originally Posted by Rokien

we don't even have ATB.... -.- I don't wait for a bar to charge up

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Did you catch the part where is said FF battle systems are all pretty much derived from it, including this one. Tho ppl might disagree i suppose, but to me the current system is just another of modification of the same basic idea: we currently use cool downs and casting times, and lets not forget action queueing (/aside:does that still happen? lol). all sounds liek ATB+ to me but i could be wrong

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Originally Posted by Destain

2nd this. I'm sure everyone talking about how easy auto attack is has beaten all the *looks at profiles* some of the content...

Gripe all you want, your not getting manual attacks back people.

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lol wut? People actually want manual attacks back? Do those people only play games with bad design because said bad design makes the game harder?

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Originally Posted by Astorlok

lol wut? People actually want manual attacks back? Do those people only play games with bad design because said bad design makes the game harder?

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Where the frick are you guys getting this harder/easier crap, seriously I would love to know!

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Where the frick are you guys getting this harder/easier crap, seriously I would love to know!

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I think they say it because most of your posts involve making the game "harder", less intuitive or less friendly. I am not stating an opinion one way or the other, just saying that is probably where the assumption comes from.

Also I have to say I don't mind AA at all. I actually always thought it would be cool to play a console RPG with a battle system MMO-hotbar-style. Like you still go into a turn-based battle kind of grid, but your character auto-attacks and can use moves off a bar...if this makes sense to anyone...

I suppose both systems are sort of the same, in the end. Which I guess explains why I like it. I'm looking for more of an RPG feel than FPS. Besides, I think the Primal battles show pretty clearly that battles can be "action oriented" and have good strategy, with AA.


*edit* ooo 100 posts! :)

Stolen from Alerith:

This is what I think of when I hear button mashing...
http://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/...er-freezes.gif

Im Fine with AA it just needs to be refined per class. pug should be quick to hit but smaller DPH, Lancer should be somewhere in the 3.0 Speed range, MRD should stay where its at, GLA needs to be faster 1.5 speed range would be optimal.

i don't like AA right now because its doesn't add balance and class uniqueness...it adds nothing. adding nothing was the same reason i was against manual attack.

As with many of your 'ideas' Rokien, the answer to your question is a resounding no. I don't want activate every single attack I make. Not in this game's battle system anyways. I'm comfortable with the combination of higher level strategy and active combat with the current combo system and we have not even gotten into the revamped Battle Regimen system yet.

There's simply no need to regress the manual attack system when there's another layer of depth we still haven't taken into consideration yet. There will be enough strategy to be had once we are forced to weigh in the pros and cons of Combos vs the revamped BR system, how they work together and how they do not, on top of all of the positioning and other special tactics that need to be considered in the current combat system.

Again, I am not convinced even you know what you really want here, Rokien You're just expressing a desire and leaping towards the most recent past example of something you found fun while completely disregarding other players' wishes and desires that caused that change to being with.

You really should think more like an old Mario game. The way to the goal is forward. Backward is just a continual dead end.

I like the battle system, I wish they would expand more on direction you or enemy is hit from. Also for ranged like mages and archers have distance and elevation also have more of an effect.

I know the system in place already recognizes placement. When I cast sometimes it says they are too far above you and such..

Also I liked how you used to be able to say break ifrits horns(can you still do that.) well things like this. Example: hurting an enemies right arm they would either swing less or swing with less damage because their arm is messed up.

Imagine all the strategy involved with things like that. When really challenging content comes it wont just be about DPS, but figuring out/and managing to disable a vital part of the enemy to give you an upper hand where otherwise it would be hopeless.

This can also apply to players which can mend overtime when battle is done, with a spell, or a potion of sorts

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Originally Posted by Mushy

I like the battle system, I wish they would expand more on direction you or enemy is hit from. Also for ranged like mages and archers have distance and elevation also have more of an effect.

I know the system in place already recognizes placement. When I cast sometimes it says they are too far above you and such..

Also I liked how you used to be able to say break ifrits horns(can you still do that.) well things like this. Example: hurting an enemies right arm they would either swing less or swing with less damage because their arm is messed up.

Imagine all the strategy involved with things like that. When really challenging content comes it wont just be about DPS, but figuring out/and managing to disable a vital part of the enemy to give you an upper hand where otherwise it would be hopeless.

This can also apply to players which can mend overtime when battle is done, with a spell, or a potion of sorts

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yes this was a great advancement...however it was removed because it was deemed taxing and unnecessary, you'll probably never see it again just like you'll never see Dodging again.

if only people kept there whining holes shut, we'd still have that stuff.

When they first suggested AA I was not happy. I felt it was going to make the experience cheaper and overall less enjoyable for me.

Then they did it and I love the combat system we have now. It requires you to focus on position, when to use what, and unlike most MMOs I have played you are given lots of abilities that are not attacks which come with a lot of strategic value.

The only way that I could see them build and improve on the old system is to go with actual fighting and combos within the 1111111 style, more like a fighting game. But that wouldn't fit FFXIV. And the rebalencing they would have to do for EVERYTHING would take forever, no thanks.

I like where it is now and I say they build on what they have NOW, not take a step back just to say "I wonder what we could do with this."

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

"TERA and GW2 will never make it in this industry because they dont have FFXIV's awesome combat system."

-FFXIV forum

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TERA and GW2 are meant to be action games, FFXIV was not. Just because they have it doe not mean XIV should. >.>

No thank you, the old system was unintuative, clunky, and slow as molasses in January. There was no way to make a silk purse out of that sows ear and was one of the major reasons I didn't come back to the game until I got the newsletter that announced auto-attack. I would constantly forget that even my basic attack had to be activated and would be seething at my character, wondering why I was just getting beat on, then i'd remember and it would be too late.


Now, I haven't played Tera or GW2, so I can't speak to their combat systems. However, I get the feeling that the majority if those games' content has been tooled around more active combat. In the case of XIV even at launch the old combat system felt out if place with the way combat was presented. Once the new system was added combat has felt more fluid and natural, the flow more logical, all they need to do in my opinion. With combat now is get rid of ARC/BRD's silly punching and give us auto-shot.

No!!! 11111111 button mashing... that is the dumbest thing in existence.

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Originally Posted by Toxsik

No!!! 11111111 button mashing... that is the dumbest thing in existence.

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is it, I've said many times 11111= any other button you press.

*Rokien has an opinion*

*It automatically becomes "the majority" despite everyone stating the contrary*

You tell'em Mr. Vinland!

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Originally Posted by Rokien

is it, I've said many times 11111= any other button you press.

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Except it's not. Not even close Rokien. Let me explain this to you in a language you would understand.

1111 111 11111 1111 1111 1111 1 11 111111 11111 1111 111111 11 111 1111 11 111 111111 or in english:
See? you can't even tell what I am saying using one button as the same as all others.

One button centralized design =/= not the same as dynamic combat design. AA bypasses so much unneeded tedium in this combat system it isn't funny.

There is enough required attentiveness in the system we have. It's not as if people are idling like in FFXI where all they do is let the spam DPS of their auto attacks to the job for them with the occasional WS. Melee jobs constantly need to be self-buffing, moving around, getting in and out of attack ranges, etc.

Adding the requirement to repeatedly pressing the attack button whenever you're striking is just pointless. It adds nothing but insubstantial fluff to an already busy combat system.

If you like 111 so damn much just play ARC/BRD.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

"TERA and GW2 will never make it in this industry because they dont have FFXIV's awesome combat system." -FFXIV forum

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

TERA and GW2 are meant to be action games, FFXIV was not. Just because they have it doe not mean XIV should. >.>

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Just wanted to mention that Guild Wars 2 does have autoattack... and the gameplay still manages to be very action oriented.

So to disagree with Rokien, it is very possible to use auto attack and still have an involving and engaging battle system.

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Originally Posted by Kowen

Just wanted to mention that Guild Wars 2 does have autoattack... and the gameplay still manages to be very action oriented.

So to disagree with Rokien, it is very possible to use auto attack and still have an involving and engaging battle system.

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Very well, but he does not want auto attack he wants full action combat like Tera. I'll admit that is fun but won't fit in XIV.

More action based than what we have now, more skill-based than what we have now... more fun than what we have now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDEKc6WcKHs


I, for one, welcome our new TERA overlords. I wanted this game to be good, I still hope it becomes good. I do still care about the game and I'll actually play it seriously in a heartbeat if it is improved heavily (the lag is such a factor for me too). TERA for now though.

I preffer a slower combat, the AA that we actually have is a very fast for me, i would preffer it if SE make it slower.

ARCs arrows do not auto attack for good reason, they use an item from your inventory, when that item is gone will you just be pulling the string? shooting blanks? Also I like archer to not be auto attack because they can be a good puller. target enemy>everyone ready?>/ / / />ARC attacks pulling the enemy to the group the tank then grabs hate etc

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

Very well, but he does not want auto attack he wants full action combat like Tera. I'll admit that is fun but won't fit in XIV.

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He's welcome to go to Tera then. I just hope it comes with him stopping with posting inane ideas with a new thread, every three days.

As fast paced as the action is already in this game, this isn't an action MMO. We're a far, far cry technology wise form having Dissidia Final Fantasy Online. And honestly, that would be more like the route I would like to Square Enix take with an Action MMO.

I would rather see faster cool downs so that there is always an option that must be considered.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

He's welcome to go to Tera then. I just hope it comes with him stopping with posting inane ideas with a new thread, every three days.

As fast paced as the action is already in this game, this isn't an action MMO. We're a far, far cry technology wise form having Dissidia Final Fantasy Online. And honestly, that would be more like the route I would like to Square Enix take with an Action MMO.

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Oh you know what, Tera is just like every other mmo, I will stay with FFXIV untill it turns into everyother mmo. Only thing Tera has is it's combat.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Oh you know what, Tera is just like every other mmo, I will stay with FFXIV untill it turns into everyother mmo. Only thing Tera has is it's combat.

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FFXIV is already like every other MMO, we have people (you) that like to suggest something that no one wants (and I say no one because anyone that does want it are the minority and to be blunt, don't matter) just like every other MMO.

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Originally Posted by Charismatic

More action based than what we have now, more skill-based than what we have now... more fun than what we have now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDEKc6WcKHs


I, for one, welcome our new TERA overlords. I wanted this game to be good, I still hope it becomes good. I do still care about the game and I'll actually play it seriously in a heartbeat if it is improved heavily (the lag is such a factor for me too). TERA for now though.

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To each his own...

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Oh you know what, Tera is just like every other mmo, I will stay with FFXIV untill it turns into everyother mmo. Only thing Tera has is it's combat.

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- Which is fairly good, I'll give it that. However it's only one piece of the puzzle, and immersive combat can be done in other ways. I'd like to see how SE can develop the current system into being more thrilling than it already is. I don't believe getting rid of things like Auto Attack is going to do that.

Wouldn't mind a dodge roll and knockdowns though.

But SW;TOR has great voice acting and story. And Guild Wars has a great interactive world and quest system.

Some of the concepts can be adapted in, for sure. (Not sure how voice-work would fit, given the multilingual shared server-base and some of the... interesting... script we get in certain places.) But it needs to be adapted in where it can fit, not just copy-pasted over.

Inspiration, rather than formula copying. That's how FFXIV should evolve with the new wave of MMO games.