Some healers are taking the entire ogcd heal thing to the extreme.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

S N E E P

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But no one is saying "Healers who only DPS and let their team die are so much better than those who never DPS and are obsessed with their HP being full". You're misinterpreting the message here, and based on your misinterpretation you're putting everyone in the same bag and saying healers are toxic ...

A healer who is so obsessed with their DPS that they let their team wipe = Bad
A healer that is so obsessed with healing that they never DPS = Inefficient (= Bad for some)

Whether you like it or not, this is the reality of the healer role right now. I feel like a broken record saying this almost on every post, but encounter design in FFXIV is made in such a way that only the team's DPS output matters. Even in hardcore content, once you know how to "dance" around the room with the boss, the amount of healing you'll need to do is so trivial that you'll be pressing your one DPS button for 90% of the fight duration. And you HAVE to, because the most difficult fights of the game nowadays all have a DPS check.
I'm all for healers being more focused on healing, but this is how SE have designed their game, and there's nothing we can do about it.

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Originally Posted by Kraniel

But no one is saying "Healers who only DPS and let their team die are so much better than those who never DPS and are obsessed with their HP being full". You're misinterpreting the message here, and based on your misinterpretation you're putting everyone in the same bag and saying healers are toxic ...

A healer who is so obsessed with their DPS that they let their team wipe = Bad
A healer that is so obsessed with healing that they never DPS = Inefficient (= Bad for some)

Whether you like it or not, this is the reality of the healer role right now. I feel like a broken record saying this almost on every post, but encounter design in FFXIV is made in such a way that only the team's DPS output matters. Even in hardcore content, once you know how to "dance" around the room with the boss, the amount of healing you'll need to do is so trivial that you'll be pressing your one DPS button for 90% of the fight duration. And you HAVE to, because the most difficult fights of the game nowadays all have a DPS check.
I'm all for healers being more focused on healing, but this is how SE have designed their game, and there's nothing we can do about it.

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At that point better off bringing like 4 paladins and 4 dps then forgot how broken clem is, I seen a diamond Ex with nothing but a 8 party pld run. I did not say I have a problem with it how people chooses to play healer, I simply said like you said a healer who dps 100 and 0 heals or one that 100 heal and 0 dps is both very terrible and should put a balance of doing both whenever necessary at key points. Also I too am tired of sounding like a broken record too saying that the heal bot term is completely foolish and hypocrite to say (which healer prime job is to heal) but not dear calling the 100% healers who just dps green dps bots. I am a healer main myself so umm not saying healers are toxic am just saying two wrongs makes no right, over dpsing or healing is equally bad.

I wish 90% of healing was done with gcd heals and ogcd heals were needed for specific mechanics or emergencies only. Coming to ff14 as a healer from other mmos I've always disliked the idea that we should primarily heal using ogcd's only.

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Originally Posted by Vivix

I wish 90% of healing was done with gcd heals and ogcd heals were needed for specific mechanics or emergencies only. Coming to ff14 as a healer from other mmos I've always disliked the idea that we should primarily heal using ogcd's only.

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Agreed.

I come from Everquest, FFXI classic era, and WoW. Healing in this game is very different, so many instant heals and off-globals. I think it stems from the PS console roots, controller vs mouse/keyboard limitations and obviously dev's own goal for healers being green DPS with occasional heals.

I guess in other games, because healing comes from the gcd, when they heal they cannot DPS (outside of DoTs), and while healers in this game starts out like that but at level 50+ they evolve into this DPS role. Leveling dungeons can be quite fun to heal when you have Cure 2 & Medica on the gcd, and tanks pull big groups. At higher lvls its just Holy or Art of War spam and throwing out ogcd heals inbetween.

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Originally Posted by Kraniel

But no one is saying "Healers who only DPS and let their team die are so much better than those who never DPS and are obsessed with their HP being full". You're misinterpreting the message here, and based on your misinterpretation you're putting everyone in the same bag and saying healers are toxic ...

A healer who is so obsessed with their DPS that they let their team wipe = Bad
A healer that is so obsessed with healing that they never DPS = Inefficient (= Bad for some)

Whether you like it or not, this is the reality of the healer role right now. I feel like a broken record saying this almost on every post, but encounter design in FFXIV is made in such a way that only the team's DPS output matters. Even in hardcore content, once you know how to "dance" around the room with the boss, the amount of healing you'll need to do is so trivial that you'll be pressing your one DPS button for 90% of the fight duration. And you HAVE to, because the most difficult fights of the game nowadays all have a DPS check.
I'm all for healers being more focused on healing, but this is how SE have designed their game, and there's nothing we can do about it.

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My friend, you can't argue with this player. We've seen it time and time again and no amount of rational discussion makes a difference. My best advice is to just not feed the troll and starve them of attention.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

My friend, you can't argue with this player. We've seen it time and time again and no amount of rational discussion makes a difference. My best advice is to just not feed the troll and starve them of attention.

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I tried :(

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Originally Posted by Vivix

I wish 90% of healing was done with gcd heals and ogcd heals were needed for specific mechanics or emergencies only. Coming to ff14 as a healer from other mmos I've always disliked the idea that we should primarily heal using ogcd's only.

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I support this, it is one of the reason I no longer bring my WHM or AST into EX.
If we don’t get more intense healing, then weaken the oGCD heal on potency or CD or both, strengthen the GCD heal, make us use it. Give us buff and debuff abilities to fill the downtime.
I feel more like a healer back in ARR and HW even cleric stance have a terrible CD time

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Originally Posted by Vivix

I wish 90% of healing was done with gcd heals and ogcd heals were needed for specific mechanics or emergencies only. Coming to ff14 as a healer from other mmos I've always disliked the idea that we should primarily heal using ogcd's only.

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I can agree that more healing situations would be nice but that never will happen because they tuning the heal check for the casual player base in 99% of the content, because you have still cure bots that have a panic attack when some unexpected happens. And another thing is why would using gcd heals change anything in comparison to ogcds ? I mean if I spam the malefic button or Helios button it’s still 1 button we hit in a row. The problem is ff 14 fights are scripted so hard that after you learned them a bit you know exactly when something happens.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

And another thing is why would using gcd heals change anything in comparison to ogcds ? I mean if I spam the malefic button or Helios button it’s still 1 button we hit in a row. The problem is ff 14 fights are scripted so hard that after you learned them a bit you know exactly when something happens.

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Having heals on the GCD increases the importance of Swiftcast or Surecast depending upon mechanics. Precasting your heals to land in a certain time window matters if you do not have those available. oGCD heals means you never have to consider casting at all.

SCH getting Indom in Heavensward and AST getting Earthly Star oGCD spell in Stormblood and Earthly Star being available for every raid damage started increasing this oGCD healing creep. SCH could use Indom but they sacrifice MP/150 potency damage.

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Originally Posted by lulunami

Having heals on the GCD increases the importance of Swiftcast or Surecast depending upon mechanics. Precasting your heals to land in a certain time window matters if you do not have those available. oGCD heals means you never have to consider casting at all.

SCH getting Indom in Heavensward and AST getting Earthly Star oGCD spell in Stormblood and Earthly Star being available for every raid damage started increasing this oGCD healing creep. SCH could use Indom but they sacrifice MP/150 potency damage.

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But it doesn’t. You are only forced to precast if another aoe comes right after the first one. And if not you have ages to heal the dmg done from it. That ogcd power creep did start more in shadowbringer then anything, I mean they nerfed energy drain and made sacred soil a hot field and gave recitation so you can always get a free crit ogcd heal , then they made celestial opposition a 1minute ogcd hot, gave 2 charges too dignity and gave him intersect and helios that even if you don’t gcd heal is still 200 potency free every min. Like astro had in stormblood 3 ogcd heals now he has 7 all on a minute cd or less. For star you had at-least use some brain power to pre set it for a aoe back then too get it of cooldown faster. Don’t need too say anything about indom because you hit the nail on the head there. This is we’re the problem comes into play between decent/good and bad healer player, good/decent player use these skill on cds almost all the time because they are free but a bad player will save them for oh crap moments. These skills are a safety line for bad healer and a “I just press it on cd” thing for decent/good player.

Also on the swift cast thing,in these scenarios would favor astro with light speed way more then any other healer and it’s already the best one. Also surecast would be interesting if some bosses do actual have cast interrupting actions but they don’t because in a lot of mechanics in high end content, one death is almost always a wipe and if you implement something like this in low skill content you have lot casuals who would call murder and not only on the healer side but also the caster side.

*Ignores the IceBlueNinja drama*
Personally, I wish they'd put all the healing spells on the oGCD instead. Like, they'd still be spells and cost MP but you can weave them in-between your GCD DPS spells. :D

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

*Ignores the IceBlueNinja drama*
Personally, I wish they put all the healing spells on the oGCD instead. Like, they'd still be spells and cost MP but you can weave them in-between your GCD DPS spells. :D

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Good job need a cookie? Yeah am the one that started the drama(looks through posts of all the people being animals towards me op and those who was on op side), ah I forgot hypocrisy. We all are dramas, drama dps hungry people qqing calling healers who do their job of healing , dramas crying to yoshi P about 1 dps buttons. 1 dps button is so fun, hmm if I wanted more dps options, think I should check the guides about dps instead of being drammatic about healer 1 button dps :D

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Good job need a cookie?

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I'm actually baking some right now, so I'm good. :D
Do you need a Snickers bar? You seem like you do.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

But it doesn’t. You are only forced to precast if another aoe comes right after the first one. And if not you have ages to heal the dmg done from it.

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Having healed ex and savage in heavensward, fights often had damage happening in movement heavy phases, so if you didnt want to use your swiftcast you had to know how to precast gcd heals. Not to mention their cast times were longer (asp helios and medica ii had a 3s cast time).

An example is a11s where photon brings everyone to 1hp, and then immediately after theres a raidwide aoe, but you also have to dodge several floor lasers. there wasnt any time to cast a gcd heal so you would precast.

"but lightspeed!" lightspeed made your dps spells do 25% less damage, so if you wanted to maximize your dps you wanted to avoid using it.


Precasting was indeed a skill worth having, especially if you wanted to spend as much time in cleric stance as possible, and its a dimension of gameplay thats all but gone

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I'm actually baking some right now, so I'm good. :D
Do you need a Snickers bar? You seem like you do.

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I do not eat sweets, its not good for health thank you.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I do not eat sweets, its not good for health thank you.

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I hear negativities worse. >w>

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I hear negativities worse. >w>

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lol? uh ok then

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

lol? uh ok then

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Is something wrong? >o>
You seem lethargic all of a sudden. D:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Is something wrong? >o>
You seem lethargic all of a sudden. D:

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Am good, thanks though XD

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Am good, thanks though XD

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Are you sure honey?
It's alright, you can tell us. We're all friends here, we won't judge you. ♥

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Originally Posted by QooEr

Having healed ex and savage in heavensward, fights often had damage happening in movement heavy phases, so if you didnt want to use your swiftcast you had to know how to precast gcd heals. Not to mention their cast times were longer (asp helios and medica ii had a 3s cast time).

An example is a11s where photon brings everyone to 1hp, and then immediately after theres a raidwide aoe, but you also have to dodge several floor lasers. there wasnt any time to cast a gcd heal so you would precast.

"but lightspeed!" lightspeed made your dps spells do 25% less damage, so if you wanted to maximize your dps you wanted to avoid using it.


Precasting was indeed a skill worth having, especially if you wanted to spend as much time in cleric stance as possible, and its a dimension of gameplay thats all but gone

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You talk about heavensward we’re whm sucked and astro sucked early into the expansion even more. Also ogcd heals we’re in such a small number that if dmg came you we’re forced too gcd heal. I mean I did mention healing in shadowbringer specific. We all can agree heavensward healing was fun in anyway and challenging. But that’s the reason they changed how healer deal dmg from heavensward too stormblood because it was to hard for many player and healer dmg became for a lot of people the norm for how you should play healer in ff 14.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

You talk about heavensward we’re whm sucked and astro sucked early into the expansion even more. Also ogcd heals we’re in such a small number that if dmg came you we’re forced too gcd heal. I mean I did mention healing in shadowbringer specific. We all can agree heavensward healing was fun in anyway and challenging. But that’s the reason they changed how healer deal dmg from heavensward too stormblood because it was to hard for many player and healer dmg became for a lot of people the norm for how you should play healer in ff 14.

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i was simply pointing out the merits of knowing how to precast gcd heals, and how its a dimension of gameplay thats just gone in shadowbringers.


i personally think healing ogcds should have drastically longer cooldowns to make heal planning a bit more interesting than it is currently

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It's like when you're having a conversation with someone, and every time you say a general statement like "no one drives a 1940s Cadillac anymore," that person responds with "There's probably someone out there who does." Well yeah, is there a small number of people in existence who are still driving a 1940s Cadillac? Probably, but generally speaking that number is small enough that we can say "no one" and silently understand that it doesn't literally mean no one.

In other words, bringing up the "um actually"s on fringe cases like the healer that never DPSs or the healer that only DPSs is just derailing focus away from the bigger issues. Nothing you do will ever eliminate fringe scenarios in an online game. Let's stop pretending that it's a major issue and start focusing on the real problems. That's the point I'm trying to get at.

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Well, saying "no one" means "no one." After all, words mean things. Just say "almost no one." JS.

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

Well, saying "no one" means "no one." After all, words mean things. Just say "almost no one." JS.

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Yes but no one likes when people choose to point out the literal every 3 minutes.

"Can I go to the bathroom?"

"I don't know, Timmy. Can you go to the bathroom?"

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Originally Posted by QooEr

i was simply pointing out the merits of knowing how to precast gcd heals, and how its a dimension of gameplay thats just gone in shadowbringers.


i personally think healing ogcds should have drastically longer cooldowns to make heal planning a bit more interesting than it is currently

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Yes they should b, but the problem is what job should have more ogcd cooldown then ?. Like then all healer or only astro and sch. And that’s the problem if you only do some you get angry people maining these jobs and if you do all the meta is still there. Ofc you have situations we’re you maybe need too use gcds but it doesn’t change the fight design we have now. I mean do you think using a gcd heal after a aoe we’re the next dmg comes after 1 or more minute or using a ogcd does change that situation. You just swap a for b and i aslo think hammering medica or helios is the same as if i hammer glare or malefic

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Yes they should b, but the problem is what job should have more ogcd cooldown then ?. Like then all healer or only astro and sch. And that’s the problem if you only do some you get angry people maining these jobs and if you do all the meta is still there. Ofc you have situations we’re you maybe need too use gcds but it doesn’t change the fight design we have now. I mean do you think using a gcd heal after a aoe we’re the next dmg comes after 1 or more minute or using a ogcd does change that situation. You just swap a for b and i aslo think hammering medica or helios is the same as if i hammer glare or malefic

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im not saying increasing the cooldowns fixes the gameplay issues but it makes at the very least planning cooldowns necessary. i can hop into any savage fight on pf as astro and clear it in single digit gcd heals because i have a super strong super short cd ability for everything. id like to at least have to think about when to use what

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Originally Posted by QooEr

im not saying increasing the cooldowns fixes the gameplay issues but it makes at the very least planning cooldowns necessary. i can hop into any savage fight on pf as astro and clear it in single digit gcd heals because i have a super strong super short cd ability for everything. id like to at least have to think about when to use what

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Ofc but thats just the difficulty for almost all fights now in FF 14. The fights cant be too healing intensive because they want them to be cleared by the casual playerbase. You have some specific cases were the dmg is really hard hitting in some specific content situations. The simple fix would be too make the boss do constant aoe dmg too the party so were are actually forced to heal. But this also has a big problem, in ff 14 every healer has really strong tools too regain mana and the potency for the heals are also strong, that is too balance out the fact that if you are a ok healer and you have another pug healer both of you can carry the healing situation, so if the healer turns out to be not good you can pretty much solo heal the fight. Thats the big glaring problem (get it?) here, the developer needs to fit all the healer skill spectrum in almost all content situations so they rather make the fights always middle in the healing requirement department so one good healer can carry decent/bad healer.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

i was simply pointing out the merits of knowing how to precast gcd heals, and how its a dimension of gameplay thats just gone in shadowbringers.


i personally think healing ogcds should have drastically longer cooldowns to make heal planning a bit more interesting than it is currently

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I understand where you're coming from, but the way i see it, i think the frustration would be the same, only with different abilities.
Sure, oGCD heals allow us to heal reactively and not worry about precasting ... but in most fights you don't even need to worry about precasting to begin with. You can cast your Medica II a couple seconds after the team took damage, and not be punished for it.

So in the end we would still complain about healing being too easy ... except it would be about whatever GCD we're using 80% of the time.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Yes but no one likes when people choose to point out the literal every 3 minutes.

"Can I go to the bathroom?"

"I don't know, Timmy. Can you go to the bathroom?"

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I could care less about what people "like." Again, words mean things, and if people would actually say what they mean in this world then we'd be a lot better off.

I mean, it's not physically impossible for a solar flare to fry all of our technology tomorrow, but I'm not wasting my time prefacing all of my statements with "in the event there is no solar flare tomorrow", just like I don't waste my time validating paranoid strawman fantasies about evil mustache twirling healers who are so allergic to GCD heals they kill alliances on purpose instead of the not-crazy explanation that they either zoned out or pushed their limits too hard.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I mean, it's not physically impossible for a solar flare to fry all of our technology tomorrow, but I'm not wasting my time prefacing all of my statements with "in the event there is no solar flare tomorrow", just like I don't waste my time validating paranoid strawman fantasies about evil mustache twirling healers who are so allergic to GCD heals they kill alliances on purpose instead of the not-crazy explanation that they either zoned out or pushed their limits too hard.

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Tl;dr do not equate to malice that which can adequately be explained with stupidity.

To get back on track, healing sucks because it’s too easy, too simple, and too powerful. Can we maybe have something else to do when people know what they’re doing? More news from Green Horns & Green DPS at 11.