Whats the deal with tanks recently?

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

you've barely touched the MSQ on your two connected accounts and base your entire community experience on, what I assume, a handful of dungeons at most?
how dare people respect their time, how dare they expect tanks in high-to-max level content to play their class at a normal level? unheard of!
I'm sorry that you find it cringe that people expect tanks to tank, not do it at a snail's pace and throw tantrums when people want to go faster, but you do you, I guess

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Reading both your posts it kinda sounds like you are the one throwing the tantrum.

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%? When I started tanking, I had help in understanding what CDs even were and when/why to use them even in a party; CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be. Maybe if healers actually healed like they're supposed to instead of focusing too much on attacking or pulling more mobs, tanks would feel more comfortable pulling more because they know they have a reliable healer watching their back.

If the healer can't keep me above 50%, then I'm not pulling more - wiping wastes even more time, and is more likely to cause party members to bail.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%?

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Benediction, Excogitation, Essential Dignity.

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CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be.

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An unused CD is a wasted CD. Holding CDs for emergencies is the fastest possible way to manufacture emergencies. It's no surprise you're always running low on HP when you do nothing to prevent it.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be.

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Incorrect. Whoever told you this was misinformed. CDs are things to be used regularly to prevent incoming damage. They are part of a tank's tool kit and should be used. Sometimes it is best to hold on to one to use when you know something's about to happen like a tank buster, But otherwise they should be weaved into whatever else you are doing. There's only one real emergency button for every tank, and that is their invuln.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%? When I started tanking, I had help in understanding what CDs even were and when/why to use them even in a party; CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be. Maybe if healers actually healed like they're supposed to instead of focusing too much on attacking or pulling more mobs, tanks would feel more comfortable pulling more because they know they have a reliable healer watching their back.

If the healer can't keep me above 50%, then I'm not pulling more - wiping wastes even more time, and is more likely to cause party members to bail.

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You don't seem to understand anything in this game. The best thing would be for you never to queue tank again.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%? When I started tanking, I had help in understanding what CDs even were and when/why to use them even in a party; CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be. Maybe if healers actually healed like they're supposed to instead of focusing too much on attacking or pulling more mobs, tanks would feel more comfortable pulling more because they know they have a reliable healer watching their back.

If the healer can't keep me above 50%, then I'm not pulling more - wiping wastes even more time, and is more likely to cause party members to bail.

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You don't understand how either tanking or healing works in this game.

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If the healer can't keep me above 50%, then I'm not pulling more

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My main class has been warrior since I started playing, and I'm perfectly comfortable tanking groups of mobs with my hp dropping down to 20-30% or even less occasionally. Healers have really powerful cures in this game, and especially in dungeon's it's ok for your hp to dip down to lower levels once in a while on a large pull. You shouldn't expect to be fully topped off all the time, but at the same time you do have to gauge what your healer is capable of handling. The more you play a tank job, the easier it becomes to get a feel for how good your DPS are and how well your healer can react to situations. Trash pulls are the easiest, and depending on the dungeon I'd much rather have 6-8 mobs on me at a time over just 3 or 4. Your defensive cool downs are part of your toolkit and you should use them liberally just as the DDs use their offensive abilities liberally. Black mages don't save stuff like leylines for bosses only, and in the same manner vengeance, rampart, reprisal, arms length, raw intuition... and their respective equivalents for the other tanks are there to weave into your rotations.

Tanking isn't that bad once you get some experience. You just have to put faith in your armor and learn your abilities. and rotations like any other class or role. Plus, tanks also have self cures in case of emergencies. The healer isn't the only one who can cure you if your health drops lower than expected. Equilibrium, thrill of battle, Nascent flash, and the storms path combo are all ways to restore health. I'm speaking from a warrior's perspective here, but the other tanks each have their own equivalents. And just like your defensive cooldowns, those should be weaved into your rotations as well. Once you get a feel for the job it's honestly boring tanking just 2 or 3 trash mobs. You just have to push yourself sometimes to know what you're really capable of.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%? When I started tanking, I had help in understanding what CDs even were and when/why to use them even in a party; CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half[...]

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I stopped reading from that point. What you're doing there is basically the exact opposite: making things harder for your healer to handle. Why? Because we don't plan for emergencies. We are actively PREVENTING that emergency from happening. Ever heard of preventing illness is better than recovering? Yep... it's the same here.

A wonderful tank & healer will coordinate to not let those emergencies happen at all, then we all can handle dps, mitigating, and healing -consistently- as a group regardless of role (Yes, you, the tank, is also a DPS in this sense). Yes, this can happen in pugs. Yes, you don't need a 'static' for dungeon to make this happen. You can count the amount of time you've not used those Rampart/Sentinel/Vengeance and even up to invulns like Hallowed Ground vs the amount of times you could've used if you don't plan for emergencies during those mob pulls. Imagine how much damage taken you could've mitigated if you actually use them. Do the simple math.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

Reading both your posts it kinda sounds like you are the one throwing the tantrum.

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if you think that obvious faux-outrage was real you should... I don't even know, tbh!

Just adopt the mindset I have having played all the roles at a raid level. That mindset being go hard and fast no matter your role. Pull wall to wall, keep sprinting, force your party to keep up and drag them forward even if they are kicking and screaming. If they can't do this (which is rare) then you are best served by kicking the weak link or bouncing.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

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Hello, just a reminder that this is against griefing rules and this toxic mentality if you persist will see you promptly yeeted permanently out of the game like you deserve.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%? When I started tanking, I had help in understanding what CDs even were and when/why to use them even in a party; CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be. Maybe if healers actually healed like they're supposed to instead of focusing too much on attacking or pulling more mobs, tanks would feel more comfortable pulling more because they know they have a reliable healer watching their back.

If the healer can't keep me above 50%, then I'm not pulling more - wiping wastes even more time, and is more likely to cause party members to bail.

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Cooldowns are NOT emergency buttons, certainly not for tanks.
You don't use mitigation once you dropped, you cycle through it to prevent dropping in the first place. Holding them for "emergencies" means you were at least partly responsible for manufacturing emergencies in the first place.
And healers let tanks drop below 50% all the time because Excog only triggers automatically below 50%, ED has higher potency the lower the HP and Benediction heals to full regardless of current HP. And then there are combinations that usually overheal when used above 50% like Solace + Tetra.

The "reliable healer" you want is most likely a fulltime babysitter because you don't mitigate properly.

I'm still relatively new to FFXIV and am loving playing a tank even though I have anxiety and I am still building confidence in my skills. That said, I have no problem with the team saying pull bigger. I tend to start out slow to gauge how I am everyone else is doing and then go for more if it feels good. So, my only ask is tell me to pull more or if you just have to try to pull something at least bring it to me so I can get enmity.

I don't bring any ego. I just want to have fun and escape my day job. So far I have had only one bad experience in a dungeon and the rest of the party shut them down.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%? When I started tanking, I had help in understanding what CDs even were and when/why to use them even in a party; CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be. Maybe if healers actually healed like they're supposed to instead of focusing too much on attacking or pulling more mobs, tanks would feel more comfortable pulling more because they know they have a reliable healer watching their back.

If the healer can't keep me above 50%, then I'm not pulling more - wiping wastes even more time, and is more likely to cause party members to bail.

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Imagine typing all that out and not realizing that you literally made an argument to pull more since your CDs aren't "needed" and you aren't dying even though the healer is letting you slip below 50%

Did you die? No. Sit down.

The only emergency tank CD IMO is Provoke in normal duties. Since it should only be used to pull things back to you that wander off to hit someone else. Every single one of your mitigation skills should be used regularly. This includes your job's "i can't die while its active" button because unlike FFXI that tier of skill doesn't have a 2 hour cooldown timer.

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%? When I started tanking, I had help in understanding what CDs even were and when/why to use them even in a party; CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be. Maybe if healers actually healed like they're supposed to instead of focusing too much on attacking or pulling more mobs, tanks would feel more comfortable pulling more because they know they have a reliable healer watching their back.

If the healer can't keep me above 50%, then I'm not pulling more - wiping wastes even more time, and is more likely to cause party members to bail.

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How is it even possible that someone can be this wrong, in every possible way, and be this confident about it?

The risk of running into a tank player like this is why I absolutely refuse to play as anything but a (hopefully) competent tank in dailies.

How can someone ever be proud of actively griefing fellow players and spreading misinfo like "CDs are for emergencies." ?

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

How is it even possible that someone can be this wrong, in every possible way, and be this confident about it?

How can someone ever be proud of actively griefing fellow players and spreading misinfo like "CDs are for emergencies." ?

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because people genuinely enable this kind of playstyle and behaviour because not doing so would make you a toxic meanie and you know what the community does with those, don't you?

And this is why I don't carry single pull tanks who don't use cooldowns.

doesnt really make sense to use mitigation after you already took a lot of dmg... you have to use it before you take the dmg

cant believe i actually wrote that xD

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Originally Posted by SwiftWing

Just going to throw my two cents in...

Yes, I believe in "you pull it, you tank it" - you want to dictate how fast the party goes and how many mobs are pulled at once? Then you go in as tank. You want to backseat tank and "help" me by pulling more to me? Have fun dying.

I pull as much as I feel I can handle, and as much as I determine the healer can handle. You want to get on me for not pulling more? Then why is my health always going below 50%? When I started tanking, I had help in understanding what CDs even were and when/why to use them even in a party; CDs are supposed to be an emergency tactic for tanks for when they're a bit overwhelmed - like when you have a lot of enemies on you, or when your health gets below half. They're not supposed to be something you just pop for every single mob, and they're not supposed to be *needed* to be. Maybe if healers actually healed like they're supposed to instead of focusing too much on attacking or pulling more mobs, tanks would feel more comfortable pulling more because they know they have a reliable healer watching their back.

If the healer can't keep me above 50%, then I'm not pulling more - wiping wastes even more time, and is more likely to cause party members to bail.

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When you play Bard using anything more than basic attacks must feel like an emergency as well. They are not supposed to be *needed*. You are only supposed to walk around, open chests, screenshot yourself and spam emotes.

Playing the game is an otherworldly concept for you.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

When you play Bard using anything more than basic attacks must feel like an emergency as well. They are not supposed to be *needed*. You are only supposed to walk around, open chests, screenshot yourself and spam emotes.

Playing the game is an otherworldly concept for you.

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Is that new adventuring business model?
I can organize a dungeon run with dear customer doing nothing but pay us 30k gil each :D