To all the LGTBQ players

Whew, if people are upset about this thread, just wait until they learn about the Mardi Gras parade float from 2019...

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Originally Posted by Axxion

but but final fantasy is never toxic tho its only wow /s

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Eh lets just blame the wow outcasts.

It always makes me laugh when people think that Japan has absolutely no LGBT people and that these discussions aren't taking place in Japanese language FFXIV spaces. -and korean and chinese ones for that matter!

Anyway I come from a conservative small town so I have a pretty thick skin and when people ask me why I have "bisexual" in my search info, I just reply I know who I am and I refuse to associate with someone who is going to derail a raid because I mentioned my boyfriend bought me a glam in casual convo (which has happened). People who claim to not want LGBT issues brought up so frequently sure love making conversations about it lol.

As for favourite moments. The fight Thancred had to protect Ryne from Ran'jit brought me to tears and I think is meaningful for anyone who has struggled in becoming a good Father figure to someone.

"i DoNt LiKe ThE gAyS"

"Sir, this is a Wendy's."

Thanks, OP. Personally, I don't see a lot of hate in-game, but forums are always a relative cesspool; it's disappointing. I know this is cliché, but people have always been scared of whatever they don't understand and they usually react to fear with verbal or physical violence. Some people are unreachable for a variety of reasons, but I believe that more and more people everyday are coming around to the idea that everyone should be able to choose their sexual preferences freely and without fear of repercussions, and that gender is now and has always been a social construct and a result of sociocultural influences throughout an individual's life.

As far as outwardly LGBTQ+ characters in the game, I'd love love LOVE to see more. It's nice having a character or characters you can identify with in that way, and it's all too rare.

Thanks TC the truth is this game (as far as I have found) is a pretty welcoming place and the vast majority of people are normal and chill. This place is a bit like an echo chamber it seems like there is alot of anti LGBT voices. But the reality is that this is just the dying gasps or irrelevant people banging their pots and pans as they fade into obscurity and irrelevance. Their time is over they have lost and are just now in their death throes. Best thing to do is just laugh at their sad little lives. People who have that much nastiness in them are never happy people. They are miserable, pity them if you will, as society progresses and leaves them in the dust where they belong

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Originally Posted by TTiscancer

So we should start advertising for political parties in here as well? What about race-baiting? That's always a riot.

Or, OR! Hear me out... we stick to talking about the game?

Lemme just make a thread and switch LGBT to White people and see how that goes.

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But we ARE talking about the game. We are talking about its characters, depictions of non heteronormative love and the game's player base.

And why not make said threat? It is definitiely a contentious topic, but race representation is a valid topic.

again one of those topic.... you know even if you try to do something positive, it's not better than the opposite thread : both of them doesn't belong here

like i said in another topic, no offence but we don't care about your gender or sexuality (you do whatever you want i'm cool with it), what is bothering is when a community ask for more depiction in a game for the sake of political correctness (instead of just doing a good character in the first place, and like IRL we shouldn't care about its sexuality)

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

again one of those topic.... you know even if you try to do something positive, it's not better than the opposite thread : both of them doesn't belong here

like i said in another topic, no offence but we don't care about your gender or sexuality (you do whatever you want i'm cool with it), what is bothering is when a community ask for more depiction in a game for the sake of political correctness (instead of just doing a good character in the first place, and like IRL we shouldn't care about its sexuality)

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Pretty much.

The old saying "don't let the camel put its head in the tent" applies.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

again one of those topic.... you know even if you try to do something positive, it's not better than the opposite thread : both of them doesn't belong here

like i said in another topic, no offence but we don't care about your gender or sexuality (you do whatever you want i'm cool with it), what is bothering is when a community ask for more depiction in a game for the sake of political correctness (instead of just doing a good character in the first place, and like IRL we shouldn't care about its sexuality)

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You gave yourself away with the "political correctness" dog whistle there. Begone troll.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

again one of those topic.... you know even if you try to do something positive, it's not better than the opposite thread : both of them doesn't belong here

like i said in another topic, no offence but we don't care about your gender or sexuality (you do whatever you want i'm cool with it), what is bothering is when a community ask for more depiction in a game for the sake of political correctness (instead of just doing a good character in the first place, and like IRL we shouldn't care about its sexuality)

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We shouldn't care about charactervs sexuality and romantic interests? Why not? And why does it only political when it represent LGBT sexuality and it's not political when it's a heterosexual relationship? There are political groups about enforcing traditional values, why isn't depictons of heterosexual romance not deligitimized then?

Feels like a double standard here. Straight people have "ideas" but LGBT people have an "agenda".

Again it's not about making every single character LGBT. We understand we're a minority. It would't make sense to suddenly have all characters be some form of LGBT people. (Especially considering writters often use this as a crutch, an easy bake recipy for vapid character writing.)

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Originally Posted by magtuired

It always makes me laugh when people think that Japan has absolutely no LGBT people and that these discussions aren't taking place in Japanese language FFXIV spaces. -and korean and chinese ones for that matter!

Anyway I come from a conservative small town so I have a pretty thick skin and when people ask me why I have "bisexual" in my search info, I just reply I know who I am and I refuse to associate with someone who is going to derail a raid because I mentioned my boyfriend bought me a glam in casual convo (which has happened). People who claim to not want LGBT issues brought up so frequently sure love making conversations about it lol.

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Well said. I do find it strange how somtimes people make it sound as if LGBTQ+ people only exist in the west...

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As for favourite moments. The fight Thancred had to protect Ryne from Ran'jit brought me to tears and I think is meaningful for anyone who has struggled in becoming a good Father figure to someone.

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I agree. Honestly, Thancred was one of my least favorite characters in the game for a long while, but that changed with Shadowbringers. He was given such a great arc in that story.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

We shouldn't care about charactervs sexuality and romantic interests? Why not?

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Not to speak for Fatch, but, imo, if we're supposed to be aiming for a world without prejudice, then it really shouldn't matter if the person in question loves the same gender, opposite gender, no gender, all genders, a specific type of identity, furries, Nintendo DS games, or their baking sheet. Ideally, in my opinion, we should be looking at a person for their overall character.

Otherwise, when it comes to a story, when we only care about a character for what they represent and not the character themselves, then the character is generally nothing but a one-dimensional shitpost/meme/joke waiting to happen. Fatch isn't saying to completely ignore the issue of sexuality, just not to make that the point of the character in the first place.

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And why does it only political when it represent LGBT sexuality and it's not political when it's a heterosexual relationship? There are political groups about enforcing traditional values, why isn't depictons of heterosexual romance not deligitimized then?

Feels like a double standard here. Straight people have "ideas" but LGBT people have an "agenda".

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Speaking as someone who is openly homosexual (because, from my experience, that's going to matter to a lot of people here, in a moment), political correctness for the sake of political correctness is a problem because it forces hypocrisy and insincerity for the sake of forcing disingenuous "acceptance" in the name of fairness. If you want acceptance, it must be earned, much like respect and trust are things you foster.

Frankly, this take on Fatch's statement is liable to do more harm than good. From the outside looking in, to me, it looks like you took their statement the wrong way and started attacking heterosexuality just because they said they don't want the focus of characterizations to be on sexuality and you took that to mean they have something against LGBT. Frankly, this kind of reaction makes it look like we do have an agenda.

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(Especially considering writters often use this as a crutch, an easy bake recipy for vapid character writing.)

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This is what Fatch is wanting to avoid. You're on paralel paths to the same conclusion, so try to converge and make a connection.

Can people just play a videogame, be friends and leave this thread to twitter's outraged mob please? For all I care, dress a bottle of milk into your granpa's shorts and call it Daddy, like really, I don't care. But don't we all have enough of this in daily media, just play the game people. Gonna speak for myself here, but I bet there's a lot of people out there who just wanna enjoy the game - or are we not? This thread doesn't belong here!

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Originally Posted by HuaTuo

Can people just play a videogame, be friends and leave this thread to twitter's outraged mob please? For all I care, dress a bottle of milk into your granpa's shorts and call it Daddy, like really, I don't care. But don't we all have enough of this in daily media, just play the game people. Gonna speak for myself here, but I bet there's a lot of people out there who just wanna enjoy the game - or are we not? This thread doesn't belong here!

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This thread is in the general discussion forum, which anything can go into because it's general discussion, so it belongs here. If you do not wish to see it again in the future, my suggestion is to not bump the thread keeping it on the front page. Also, there's always the option of ignoring the thread, it's not like it's hurting anybody.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

This thread is in the general discussion forum, which anything can go into because it's general discussion, so it belongs here. If you do not wish to see it again in the future, my suggestion is to not bump the thread keeping it on the front page. Also, there's always the option of ignoring the thread, it's not like it's hurting anybody.

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I will do as you have suggested, kind sir. Alas, the very existence of this thread is an insult to us who wish to navigate this strange world with a modicum of common sense. Ignore it is then. I wish you all smooth sailing!

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Originally Posted by HuaTuo

Can people just play a videogame, be friends and leave this thread to twitter's outraged mob please? For all I care, dress a bottle of milk into your granpa's shorts and call it Daddy, like really, I don't care. But don't we all have enough of this in daily media, just play the game people. Gonna speak for myself here, but I bet there's a lot of people out there who just wanna enjoy the game - or are we not? This thread doesn't belong here!

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And neither does your post. If we go after your logic.

Maybe take that into account when you try to navigate this strange world, you navigate your ship like the captain of the costa concordia.

"Anti-sjw's" are just as annoying as "progressives" honestly. Both are preachy, just in different ways.

On topic: I can't recall a lot of moments I thought were funny. Maybe when I found out Urianger can't swim.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Which is odd when it comes to this thread, as it's just sharing moments people loved/enjoyed in FFXIV (which, again, was to counter a few now deleted threads that were very blatant). No "more representation" or anything within the OP, so no idea why certain individuals (some with less than 20 posts) are getting their feathers so ruffled and claiming that's what is happening.

I mean I technically do know why...

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This is what I was thinking, too.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Well said. I do find it strange how somtimes people make it sound as if LGBTQ+ people only exist in the west...



I agree. Honestly, Thancred was one of my least favorite characters in the game for a long while, but that changed with Shadowbringers. He was given such a great arc in that story.

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It's this fallacy that minority identities are the product of the western world and not a product of the human experience since we began developing cultures. My ethnic background has a historical third gender and there are many places in asia where homosexual people had distinct roles in society. And surprise! Japan was one of these places; Masamune Date has extensively recorded love letters to another man and homosexual love was commonplace between samurai.

So I would say yes, homosexual and transgender characters have a place in Japanese media same as heterosexual characters and both conservative and liberal politics.

I always had a soft spot for Thancred but his relationship with Ryne moved me in a way that felt personal. Don't get a lot of narratives about fatherhood that show the parent being flawed without being an irredeamable bastard. Speaks to the nuances of a parent-child relationship and felt like Final Fantasy had grown up with me.

As a gay guy myself, I just want to play and enjoy the game in peace. A lot of us who are LGBT do.

Unfortunately, people use LGBT issues to troll others with the intention of painting LGBT people in a bad light.

The grand majority of threads that propose ideas like LGBT representation in the game are trolls. They know people get riled up and it brings out the worst in them. That's when you start getting sweeping generalizations of LGBT individuals, and people who might've been neutral about it start leaning towards negativity.

This is an online forum, so it's not the biggest issue in the world. But I'd be lying if I said it didn't feel slightly discouraging.

Which is odd when it comes to this thread, as it's just sharing moments people loved/enjoyed in FFXIV (which, again, was to counter a few now deleted threads that were very blatant). No "more representation" or anything within the OP, so no idea why certain individuals (some with less than 20 posts) are getting their feathers so ruffled and claiming that's what is happening.

I mean I technically do know why...

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Not to speak for Fatch, but, imo, if we're supposed to be aiming for a world without prejudice, then it really shouldn't matter if the person in question loves the same gender, opposite gender, no gender, all genders, a specific type of identity, furries, Nintendo DS games, or their baking sheet. Ideally, in my opinion, we should be looking at a person for their overall character.

Otherwise, when it comes to a story, when we only care about a character for what they represent and not the character themselves, then the character is generally nothing but a one-dimensional shitpost/meme/joke waiting to happen. Fatch isn't saying to completely ignore the issue of sexuality, just not to make that the point of the character in the first place.



Speaking as someone who is openly homosexual (because, from my experience, that's going to matter to a lot of people here, in a moment), political correctness for the sake of political correctness is a problem because it forces hypocrisy and insincerity for the sake of forcing disingenuous "acceptance" in the name of fairness. If you want acceptance, it must be earned, much like respect and trust are things you foster.

Frankly, this take on Fatch's statement is liable to do more harm than good. From the outside looking in, to me, it looks like you took their statement the wrong way and started attacking heterosexuality just because they said they don't want the focus of characterizations to be on sexuality and you took that to mean they have something against LGBT. Frankly, this kind of reaction makes it look like we do have an agenda.


This is what Fatch is wanting to avoid. You're on paralel paths to the same conclusion, so try to converge and make a connection.

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thanks finally someone who understand what i'm trying to say (english isn't my mother tongue trying my best ^^')

a good character will remain be a good character, it's not by putting randomly an lgbtq+ character into the game for the sake of it that it will make a good one (if it's not well written)

like i said we shouldn't care about someone gender/sexuality IRL then why should we in a game ? even if it can make ppl happy if it's put in a diary/sidequest or when you talk to random npc, i'm ok with it (and saying it for hetero characters too)

Trans person here. I appreciate the support.

Thread is another bad take factory thanks to Some People, though. Nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

thanks finally someone who understand what i'm trying to say (english isn't my mother tongue trying my best ^^')

a good character will remain be a good character, it's not by putting randomly an lgbtq+ character into the game for the sake of it that it will make a good one (if it's not well written)

like i said we shouldn't care about someone gender/sexuality IRL then why should we in a game ? even if it can make ppl happy if it's put in a diary/sidequest or when you talk to random npc, i'm ok with it (and saying it for hetero characters too)

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That's not what this thread is about, though...

You can tell a lot about people by how they come into positive threads spewing hate and bigoted dogwhistling, tbh.

On topic though, from my baby MSQ adventures: A quest chain that, when doing it in the moment, is more irritating than funny, yet becomes pretty hilarious once you finish it up.

Everyone remembers the section right before Garuda, I'm sure - we just had a long knockdown drag-out in Coerthas just to find a bloody airship, we're ready to take on this primal! Aaaaaand... Cid needs a corrupted crystal so we can get through her protective storm. Fair enough! Off we're sent to a researcher who will help us. Now I feel like this questline did get trimmed a bit, as I'm sure Lamberteint (sp?) didn't used to give us a fully prepared and warded pot before, but don't quote me on that. So we follow his directions, head to his student at Highbridge, run down through the Burning Wall and bring back the crystal.

And it's the wrong type of crystal we need! A little annoying, but oh well - he promises to send us to someone who can help us. Thus we head to Aleport and go about figuring out how to get on the Isles of Umbra and why no one's allowed there. The guy at the gate on the Isles says if we get rid of whatever's causing the dead to rise, he'll grab us our crystal. One Siren driven off later, and we are returning with crystal in hand to our researcher friend......... who proceeds to tell us it is yet again the wrong type of crystal. Okay, this is getting a little tiring now, but sure.

Off to Gridania, where Cid and Alphinaud are awaiting us as we get sent all over on goose chases. The final student says we should find the crystal we need in... the belly of a spriggan. Lovely. Head to Central, slap the Biggy, dig through his innards for it, finally it's over! And then the student jokes that oops, wrong one! No actually just kidding. The pain is over and we can finally move on to go fight Garuda.

Very irritating series of quests while in the process of doing them, but it's definitely kind of funny to look back on.

I think one of the most ironic and funny scenes for me was recently I just got to the crystarium and was doing the tour quest and the npc says something like we have many items that may be familiar to you and the camera pans over to a table and there sitting on top is what appears to be cell phones (which brings me back to the real world)but that's okay because the camera pans back and my character is shaking her head like OMG I can't get away from the real world. I just found it funny and ironic. Those moments are why I love this story.

I believe in live and let live, there is not enough love of any kind in this world so anyone who loves another person should never be judged for others preconceived notions of what is right and wrong. Personally I wouldn't care if more diverse content is added or not as long as it's part of the story it only enhances our enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

I think one of the most ironic and funny scenes for me was recently I just got to the crystarium and was doing the tour quest and the npc says something like we have many items that may be familiar to you and the camera pans over to a table and there sitting on top is what appears to be cell phones (which brings me back to the real world)but that's okay because the camera pans back and my character is shaking her head like OMG I can't get away from the real world. I just found it funny and ironic. Those moments are why I love this story.

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The joke there was those "cellphones" were actually tomestones - the things we're forced to collect time and again for gear upgrades from Rowena and her girls. Even on the First, there's no escaping the tomestone grind. Rowena exists as an Eldritch entity that feeds on our sweat and tears. She is everywhere and always. There is nowhere to run to get away from her. We can cross time and space to another piece of a broken world - and there she'll be, with a grin and an open palm, awaiting our tribute to her.

(But yes, that scene made me bust out laughing too. So many good moments in ShB.)

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You gave yourself away with the "political correctness" dog whistle there. Begone troll.

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you are pathetic

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

The joke there was those "cellphones" were actually tomestones - the things we're forced to collect time and again for gear upgrades from Rowena and her girls. Even on the First, there's no escaping the tomestone grind. Rowena exists as an Eldritch entity that feeds on our sweat and tears. She is everywhere and always. There is nowhere to run to get away from her. We can cross time and space to another piece of a broken world - and there she'll be, with a grin and an open palm, awaiting our tribute to her.

(But yes, that scene made me bust out laughing too. So many good moments in ShB.)

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Ahh ha! They look like cell phones I didn't realize they were tombstones bit I guess that fits too. Pardon me just so you understand I grew up with a rotary dial black desk phone. Mom wouldn't spring for the really long cord. Having a phone back then you asked permission to use it. At least in my parents house you did. Tombstones=cell phones for sure.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

tombstones

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Tomestones. E-books, not grave markers.


*quietly grumbles at whoever didn't think to call them tomeliths like the big ones*

Hmmm i wonder where all these people are from....its almost like this one person brought their garbage with them after loads of people said it would happen exactly like this. I had screenshots almost daily now of the vitriol

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Originally Posted by Anyonka

Hmmm i wonder where all these people are from....its almost like this one person brought their garbage with them after loads of people said it would happen exactly like this. I had screenshots almost daily now of the vitriol

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It’s always been here. You can look at the threads from before this. Stop trying to pin the blame on another community when it’s this one. This has always been a thing and trying to just use a scapegoat for it is unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Anya_Synia

I am wondering are the people condemning this thread also condemning the troll threads. If they are not which I presume they are just ignoring them, it's a bit hypocritical.

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Yes actually. That idiot Christian fanatic who is the most likely person this thread is a response to had two threads full of people condemning him.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Yes actually. That idiot Christian fanatic who is the most likely person this thread is a response to had two threads full of people condemning him.

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Yet everyone in this threads keeps repeating how they are oppressed and how toxic the community is when it's LITERALLY 1 or 2 people.

MUH VICTIMHOOD, LOOK HOW OPPRESSED I AM.

gimme a break. 99% don't give a shit.

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Originally Posted by TTiscancer

Yet everyone in this threads keeps repeating how they are oppressed and how toxic the community is when it's LITERALLY 1 or 2 people.

MUH VICTIMHOOD, LOOK HOW OPPRESSED I AM.

gimme a break. 99% don't give a shit.

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Grats on being #3 and part of the 1% keeping such threads on the front page??

/boggle

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You gave yourself away with the "political correctness" dog whistle there. Begone troll.

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I don't agree with the person you're responding to, but saying that '' political correctness '' is a dogwhistle is pretty ridiculous.
Whether you like it or not, the overwhelming majority of people according to all of the polling I've seen done on this think it's real and an actual problem regardless of political leaning.
If you spend a lot of time online particularly in certain communities and on some platforms like Twitter you may be under a very different impression.

That's not to say that there aren't people who abuse the term and throw it at basically anything even slightly progressive, because there are.
But I don't see what good it does to deny the existence of it altogether or label it a dogwhistle, because most people see that and think that you're just in denial about reality.
Performative wokeness ( particularly when it comes to corporations ) is just a thing that exists and is very trendy and loud in most online spaces but that doesn't actually mean that it reflects reality and what most people think.
I remember seeing some stats on Twitter too and it was like an extremely tiny and VERY specific group of people of an already small group that make up for like 80% of the tweets.
And yet social media like Twitter is like a go to in marketing and what a lot of brands look at and it kinda shows.

It's pretty bad optics to call it a dogwhistle and act like it's not real, and if anything it just plays into the hands of bad people because most people do see it and think it's a problem and when they see you do that they think it's crazy.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

Grats on being #3 and part of the 1% keeping such threads on the front page??

/boggle

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0/10

Try harder.

Back on thread topic, since - you know - the thread actually had a topic alongside its positive message:

Honestly, Trust additions were great simply because so much thought went into specific reactions and ways of handling some stuff in dungeons - such as Dohn Mheg. It was very enjoyable and hilarious to see the various methods the Scions use to deal with going over that gap with the tiny, winding platform bridge. Ryne and Alphinaud take things slowly and carefully, as fits their personalities - meanwhile Alisaie just rushes across it without a second thought, showing off her stubbornness and confidence. Meanwhile Thancred just yeets himself over and bypasses the mechanic entirely, just because he can - and each different way of going about it is both endearing as well as hilarious.

It's one of the other main reasons I run with Trusts first for new dungeon releases.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Back on thread topic, since - you know - the thread actually had a topic alongside its positive message:

Honestly, Trust additions were great simply because so much thought went into specific reactions and ways of handling some stuff in dungeons - such as Dohn Mheg. It was very enjoyable and hilarious to see the various methods the Scions use to deal with going over that gap with the tiny, winding platform bridge. Ryne and Alphinaud take things slowly and carefully, as fits their personalities - meanwhile Alisaie just rushes across it without a second thought, showing off her stubbornness and confidence. Meanwhile Thancred just yeets himself over and bypasses the mechanic entirely, just because he can - and each different way of going about it is both endearing as well as hilarious.

It's one of the other main reasons I run with Trusts first for new dungeon releases.

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Haha all my ninja friends were so mad they couldn't copy Thancred.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

meanwhile Alisaie just rushes across it without a second thought, showing off her stubbornness and confidence.

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If you look at the party status bars, she actually has Sprint activated.