Need help / advice for this tank roulette situation

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

My position is that DPS who run ahead and pull are inconsiderate and a nuisance, and when people are inconsiderate I lose any sense obligation I might have had to be nice to them. That's all.

I very rarely ever have issues with people in-game, honestly. I only ever have these arguments on the forums. The forum community is just a representatively small collection of this game's more problematic players, I believe.

I mean, just look at that hilarious "let's vent" thread. 1000's of pages of "I was totally being the nicest person ever and then people started snapping at me for no reason!" stories. How many times does that have to happen before they all start realizing that they're the common factor? This entire forum community is basically toxic players providing confirmation bias and reassuring each other that "everyone else" is the problem.

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If the tank is doing their job, dps shouldn’t be able to run ahead lmao. Even if they do, pulling 2 seconds ahead isn’t a big deal. If you let that get to you i think some reflecting needs to be done. There’s no reason why the tank should be behind the dps in 99% of cases. If the tanks are doing single pulls or resort to the “you pull it you tank it” mentality, they’re the ones being inconsiderate and a nuisance. Same logic applies to dps or healers not dpsing or using aoes.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

If the tank is doing their job, dps shouldn’t be able to run ahead lmao. Even if they do, pulling 2 seconds ahead isn’t a big deal. If you let that get to you i think some reflecting needs to be done. There’s no reason why the tank should be behind the dps in 99% of cases. If the tanks are doing single pulls or resort to the “you pull it you tank it” mentality, they’re the ones being inconsiderate and a nuisance. Same logic applies to dps or healers not dpsing or using aoes.

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If the dps is doing their job they'll be DPSing the existing group of enemies, not running away from the group to pull more.

A DPS pulling is being disruptive and not doing his job. If you want bigger pulls you ask. If you want to be inconsiderate then don't cry when the tank is inconsiderate back. That's all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If the dps is doing their job they'll be DPSing the existing group of enemies, not running away from the group to pull more.

A DPS pulling is being disruptive and not doing his job. If you want bigger pulls you ask. If you want to be inconsiderate then don't cry when the tank is inconsiderate back. That's all I'm saying.

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Their job is to dps all the enemies. The tanks job is to pull all enemies. The dps shouldn’t have to run away to pull more if again, the tank is doing their job correctly. A tank not wall to wall pulling is being disruptive and is just wasting 3 other players’ time.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

That's completely unrelated and irrelevant to this discussion; and I wasn't being condescending to anyone in that discussion. I don't think you know what irony is.

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it's not irrelevant at all, let me quote your post

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Most of you can't be bothered to offer even basic levels of consideration to other players by making a simple request, and instead opt to do dismissive and passive aggressive things like forcing the tanks hand.

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the bold part perfectly encapsulates your attitude when it comes to DR and how you couldn't even be bothered to walk 5 meters out of the spawn point to kill the quickly respawning enemies who drop useful fragments because you called it a waste of time
all while gleefully boasting about being carried by other players and how they're doing you such a great service and whatnot, which is pretty condescending considering you're actively NOT trying in speeding up the run and instead mocked everyone who put in a modicum of effort
not to mention all that passive aggressiveness in your replies when various people called you lazy, so yeah, it is ironic that your post is condemning things that you've proudly done yourself

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Their job is to dps all the enemies. The tanks job is to pull all enemies. The dps shouldn’t have to run away to pull more if again, the tank is doing their job correctly. A tank not wall to wall pulling is being disruptive and is just wasting 3 other players’ time.

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Tanks job is to pull. How many enemies he pulls at once is something the tank and healer work out based on what they're comfortable with. The DPS have no place in that decision.

The funny thing is that DPS never actually finish the wall to wall pull, they just pull 1 extra group because that's all they can manage without dying. By the time that DPS's few extra mobs get there the original pull is half dead, and basically all the DPS accomplished was staggering single pulls while not contributing to DPS because he was running around like a derp. If you want big pulls you ask, don't run around being useless instead of actually DPSing.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

it's not irrelevant at all, let me quote your post



the bold part perfectly encapsulates your attitude when it comes to DR and how you couldn't even be bothered to walk 5 meters out of the spawn point to kill the quickly respawning enemies who drop useful fragments because you called it a waste of time
all while gleefully boasting about being carried by other players and how they're doing you such a great service and whatnot, which is pretty condescending considering you're actively NOT trying in speeding up the run and instead mocked everyone who put in a modicum of effort
not to mention all that passive aggressiveness in your replies when various people called you lazy, so yeah, it is ironic that your post is condemning things that you've proudly done yourself

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I'm not condemning others for something I've done myself; I've never ran ahead and pulled as a DPS. You're just bringing up something unrelated and off-topic to try to deflect.

Farming essences for DF DR is a waste of an individuals time, and I provided the logic and math behind it in that previous thread. Asking for big pulls costs no one any time; there's an entire buffer period before a dungeon starts where you can ask for anything you want with no personal time investment.

When doing roulettes as tank. If its an accidental pull I don't have an issue with it. When other party members are running ahead or off to other places and intentionally pulling additional enemies instead of dealing with what I already have I let them die. I'll have made an assessment of party capability based off of gear and player behavior after the first pull and determined how to pull the duty for the quickest clear possible that doesn't put the party at risk for a wipe because doing it in 1 try is going to be faster than trying to shave 1-2 minutes off just to lose time because the party had to spend 2-6 minutes running back from party wipes. There is no point in pulling 1/3 of the duty when 1 dps is loafing around barely doing anything thinking I don't see them doing it and the other isn't using AoE. Or in situations where the healer is barely coherent because it's actually the alt of one of the DPS in the group that just used their alt to skip the DPS queue time.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

the irony of you saying that, mr I don't use any essences in DR and being a condescending prick to anyone explaining nicely to you that it helps and that essences don't take long to """grind"""

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Not gonna lie, I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

"I'll gladly let a dps die because additional mobs were pulled, but I won't use essences that drastically increase my damage and/or survivability in content that is explicitly tuned with essences in mind."

Get real Goji.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Not gonna lie, I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

"I'll gladly let a dps die because additional mobs were pulled, but I won't use essences that drastically increase my damage and/or survivability in content that is explicitly tuned with essences in mind."

Get real Goji.

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Yes Yes, I'm very aware of all the people who disagree with things I say and follow me around, but because they can't actually contend with me on any given topic they just bring up old, off-topic nonsense to try to argue with me.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

You're just bringing up something unrelated and off-topic to try to deflect.

Farming essences for DF DR is a waste of an individuals time, and I provided the logic and math behind it in that previous thread.

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it's not unrelated at all no matter how often you'll say it; it shows what kind of person you are and that you yourself show other players absolutely zero consideration while moral grandstanding about those mean DPS "showing no consideration" by pulling another mob

and you were proven wrong by multiple people and just conveniently ignored those posts because you're never wrong and totally not selfish, gotcha!

and there's the rent free comment because people dare to bring up your post history in related topics, get a grip you ninny, lmao

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

it's not unrelated at all no matter how often you'll say it; it shows what kind of person you are and that you yourself show other players absolutely zero consideration while moral grandstanding about those mean DPS "showing no consideration" by pulling another mob

and you were proven wrong by multiple people and just conveniently ignored those posts because you're never wrong and totally not selfish, gotcha!

and there's the rent free comment because people dare to bring up your post history in a related, get a grip you ninny lmao

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I addressed every response provided in that thread, and wasn't proven wrong in any capacity. You're only saying I was proven wrong because you know you won't have to quantify that in any way here; what you're bringing up right now is completely devoid of the necessary context. It's just a cheap deflection because you can't actually stand your ground on the topic at hand, so you're going wildly off topic because you still want to argue with me.

Farming for DR is a completely different thing to ask that actually forces someone to waste time outside of the dungeon. It's not the same as what's being discussed here.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

Your decision seems to just be plain aggressive.

I have no strong feelings one way or another when it comes to dungeon roulettes. I'm pretty sure nobody else does either, but everybody appreciates a faster run and most people want wall to wall pulls.

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Point remains that it is funny since at the core your current stance mimics the stance that you were against for use and farming of essences.

The inconsiderate and a nuance. I get your stance though.

On the topic at hand. Let us be real wall-to-wall should be the baseline cause tanks are not even needed for single pulls. Hell one could even argue healers are not needed for single pulls. Single pulls make certain rules sort of useless. The standard should be whatever requires every role to perform their function. If someone does not wish to make proper use of their function then they should be the one to ask. In short if someone wants smaller pulls they should be the one to ask imo not the other way around.

I have always been of the mindset the person that wants to do less should be the one speaking up.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Point remains that it is funny since at the core your current stance mimics the stance that you were against for use and farming of essences.

The inconsiderate and a nuance. I get your stance though.

On the topic at hand. Let us be real wall-to-wall should be the baseline cause tanks are not even needed for single pulls. Hell one could even argue healers are not needed for single pulls. Single pulls make certain rules sort of useless. The standard should be whatever requires every role to perform their function. If someone does not wish to make proper use of their function then they should be the one to ask. In short if someone wants smaller pulls they should be the one to ask imo not the other way around.

I have always been of the mindset the person that wants to do less should be the one speaking up.

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At 80 wall to wall should probably be baseline. At 60 and lower it would be absolutely idiotic to wall to wall by default; considering the limited kits, MUCH larger pulls and high frequency of sprout healers. End of the day I believe it's better to actually apply common sense to the situation and pull accordingly, instead of just blindly adhering to a baseline.

That's not really the issue, though. Whatever you think the default should be, if you see a tank small pulling you have 2 options; ask nicely for bigger pulls or try to force his hand without saying a word to him. Forcing his hand is obviously an inconsiderate thing to do, so don't try to play victim if he's inconsiderate in return.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

At 80 wall to wall should probably be baseline. At 60 and lower it would be absolutely idiotic to wall to wall by default; considering the limited kits, MUCH larger pulls and high frequency of sprout healers. End of the day I believe it's better to actually apply common sense to the situation and pull accordingly, instead of just blindly adhering to a default.

That's not really the issue, though. Whatever you think the default should be, if you see a tank small pulling you have 2 options; ask nicely for bigger pulls or try to force his hand without saying a word to him. Forcing his hand is obviously an inconsiderate thing to do, so don't try to play victim if he's inconsiderate in return.

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You forget option three and four. If I am a healer I will pull extra and I will tank the mobs if need be. Option four is just remove the tank.

I do not see anyone trying to play the victim I do see people defending players doing the the bare minimum though. I do agree maybe doing large pulls pre 50 could be rough but after that it should be standard jobs have enough of their tool kits to handle wall-to-wall.

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Originally Posted by Awha

You forget option three and four. If I am a healer I will pull extra and I will tank the mobs if need be. Option four is just remove the tank.

I do not see anyone trying to play the victim I do see people defending players doing the the bare minimum though. I do agree maybe doing large pulls pre 50 could be rough but after that it should be standard jobs have enough of their tool kits to handle wall-to-wall.

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If you're a healer then do whatever; as long as you can heal through whatever mess you make. I've been talking about DPS pulling, and DPS aren't capable of handling any problems they cause. Also, I never said there was an issue with initiating a vote kick. If the kick doesn't pass, however, then deal with it; don't run ahead like a pissy child trying to force the tanks hand.

And, I see plenty of people here trying to play victim. The entire premise of this thread is "WAH! TANKS ARE MEAN!" because some of them have a "you pull it you tank it" attitude towards DPS pulling. DPS pulling is inconsiderate, so not sure where everyone gets off being offended that tanks might just let the DPS tank their pull.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If you're a healer then do whatever; as long as you can heal through whatever mess you make. I've been talking about DPS pulling, and DPS aren't capable of handling any problems they cause. Also, I never said there was an issue with initiating a vote kick. If the kick doesn't pass, however, then deal with it; don't run ahead like a pissy child trying to force the tanks hand.

And, I see plenty of people here trying to play victim. The entire premise of this thread is "WAH! TANKS ARE MEAN!" because some of them have a "you pull it you tank it" attitude towards DPS pulling. DPS pulling is inconsiderate, so not sure where everyone gets off being offended that tanks might just let the DPS tank their pull.

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Because it’s literally a hypocritical stance. Tanks give themselves this mentality of “well if another party member is “inconsiderate” and pulls before i do, i’m gonna just not do my job and let them die.” That’s literally also being inconsiderate. I don’t think half of these players who have this mentality even understand that. They’re being huge hypocrites all because they have an inflated ego due to being a tank. Either act like a normal tank, pull wall to wall, or expect for dps/healers to pull ahead of you and then risk the report for you not doing your job correctly. In the end, if you the tank choose to not tank mobs, regardless of the circumstances, youre the one griefing and not doing your job.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Because it’s literally a hypocritical stance. Tanks give themselves this mentality of “well if another party member is “inconsiderate” and pulls before i do, i’m gonna just not do my job and let them die.” That’s literally also being inconsiderate. I don’t think half of these players who have this mentality even understand that. They’re being huge hypocrites all because they have an inflated ego due to being a tank. Either act like a normal tank, pull wall to wall, or expect for dps/healers to pull ahead of you and then risk the report for you not doing your job correctly. In the end, if you the tank choose to not tank mobs, regardless of the circumstances, youre the one griefing and not doing your job.

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Never said letting the DPS die wasn't inconsiderate. The main difference is the DPS is the one who initiated things by being inconsiderate and not doing his job first, so the DPS should expect the tank to respond in kind. That's just how it works; if I'm rude to you first I don't get to be offended when you're rude to me back.

It would probably be best if the DPS politely addressed the tank if he wasn't happy with the pace, but if the DPS insists on being a jerk about it then things may get confrontational and the tank might be a jerk back. Not sure why you're all surprised that tanks respond poorly to you all being dismissive and inconsiderate towards them.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If you're a healer then do whatever; as long as you can heal through whatever mess you make. I've been talking about DPS pulling, and DPS aren't capable of handling any problems they cause. Also, I never said there was an issue with initiating a vote kick. If the kick doesn't pass, however, then deal with it; don't run ahead like a pissy child trying to force the tanks hand.

And, I see plenty of people here trying to play victim. The entire premise of this thread is "WAH! TANKS ARE MEAN!" because some of them have a "you pull it you tank it" attitude towards DPS pulling. DPS pulling is inconsiderate, so not sure where everyone gets off being offended that tanks might just let the DPS tank their pull.

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Thing is I think it has less do wah tanks are mean and dps pulling extra and more to do with people throwing a hissy fit regarding what their role can do.

I mean defending players not healing or getting aggro off the mobs due to this you pull it you tank it.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Thing is I think it has less do wah tanks are mean and dps pulling extra and more to do with people throwing a hissy fit regarding what their role can do.

I mean defending players not healing or getting aggro off the mobs due to this you pull it you tank it.

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Both sides are being rude. When analyzing a situation like this I generally look at who was rude first and who was simply responding.

"You pull it you tank it" is simply a response to a dismissive and inconsiderate action. I'll always fault the person who starts the fight; not the person who finishes it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Both sides are being rude. When analyzing a situation like this I generally look at who was rude first and who was simply responding.

"You pull it you tank it" is simply a response to a dismissive and inconsiderate action. I'll always fault the person who starts the fight; not the person who finishes it.

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Person that finishes a fight that could have been avoided if they had taken the high ground is just as much at fault as the person who started the fight in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Person that finishes a fight that could have been avoided if they had taken the high ground is just as much at fault as the person who started the fight in my opinion.

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Maybe we don't want to take the high ground anymore because we are tired that they always do such things and get away with it.
You want to have the tank to "act like a leader" and take responsibility regardless, yet the moment they are acting and dictate the pace, they apparently become tyrants and "holding the whole team hostage".

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Maybe we don't want to take the high ground anymore because we are tired that they always do such things and get away with it.
You want to have the tank to "act like a leader" and take responsibility regardless, yet the moment they are acting and dictate the pace, they apparently become tyrants and "holding the whole team hostage".

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No, they want the tank to be the leader but run the dungeon a specific way, even if they're not comfortable or able to do so.

If I have a shoddily geared healer or DPS you can bet your butt I'm not wall pulling.

I have a feeling they're specifically talking about max level dungeons though. My personal experience is leveling content. When I played tank at endgame, you didn't wall pull until you outgeared the dungeon and even then holding aggro was a pain in the rear.

Besides. Ooh a dungeon takes more than five minutes to run. Why the hell play the game if you want everything done in five minutes? So you can get back to sitting around complaining there's nothing to do?

Duty first, party second, ego third.

I will complete my duty to the best of my ability, if my party fails me, then its time to look out for #1.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

honestly, even bad groups shouldn't have issues with the first two (the little guys right outside spawn and the two big guys) mobs if the healer focuses on healing and uses their kit

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Healer never focuses on healing on those pulls. Green mage go brrr. That's how tanks die. I've yet to go in that dungeon where the tank's pulled two groups and NOT had a wipe or a near wipe due to "healer go brrr".

It works anywhere else in the dungeon. Just not there lol.

It's funny to see how many players think that tank's job is to pull.
Tank's job is to tank. The irony. Pulling can be done by anyone. If someone pulls before you, accidentally or not, your job is to get aggro asap and tank it. It's so easy to get aggro right now, it's not even funny. There shouldn't be pretty much any case where someone is pulling before you, because you should be ahead of everyone else as a tank.
If your ego can't handle someone else pulling adds for you - maybe it's time to switch class. Refusing to take aggro of someone else is refusing to do your job as a tank. So called "teaching a lesson" is considered as griefing and is reportable, so make sure you keep that in mind if the idea of becoming a "teacher" ever comes to you.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

It's funny to see how many players think that tank's job is to pull.
Tank's job is to tank. The irony. Pulling can be done by anyone. If someone pulls before you, accidentally or not, your job is to get aggro asap and tank it. It's so easy to get aggro right now, it's not even funny. There shouldn't be pretty much any case where someone is pulling before you, because you should be ahead of everyone else as a tank.
If your ego can't handle someone else pulling adds for you - maybe it's time to switch class. Refusing to take aggro of someone else is refusing to do your job as a tank. So called "teaching a lesson" is considered as griefing and is reportable, so make sure you keep that in mind if the idea of becoming a "teacher" ever comes to you.

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It's the tanks job to pull because the tank is the only one that will survive the result of pulling, and the tanks CDs that will often determine what kind of pull can be reasonably healed through in lower level content. It's not some weird coincidence that tanks go first and pull in every trinity based MMORPG; pulling is absolutely their job.

And also, not picking up the adds right away isn't any more against the ToS than DPS pulling. Both can be considered griefing based on intent, and in both cases there's no way to prove intent. If the tank is a little slow on the trigger and the DPS eats a round or 2 of autos and dies before all the adds get picked up, then that's just what happened. Good luck reporting that and proving it was malicious.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's the tanks job to pull because the tank is the only one that will survive the result of pulling, and the tanks CDs that will often determine what kind of pull can be reasonably healed through in lower level content. It's not some weird coincidence that tanks go first and pull in every trinity based MMORPG; pulling is absolutely their job.

And also, not picking up the adds right away isn't any more against the ToS than DPS pulling. Both can be considered griefing based on intent, and in both cases there's no way to prove intent. If the tank is a little slow on the trigger and the DPS eats a round or 2 of autos and dies before all the adds get picked up, then that's just what happened. Good luck reporting that and proving it was malicious.

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You brought low level content because it was convenient for your point? I never said anything about low level content. I consider it as a learning ground and not worth the mention. Also funny how you don't even need a tank in most of the lower level duties. (:

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Context: Tanks pulling single pull, then moving to the next group, stopping just before the next group. I'm getting confused if we're going to pull another and run with the tank, then face pull by accident. Every time I try to clarify with the tank what we're doing, I get scolded / called down for pulling even after I apologize.

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I saw your edit, just wanted to comment here that if a tank does this, they're trolling you. If a tank keeps running after pulling a group, I take it as a sign that they intend to pull more. Stopping just before the next group is a dick move, plain and simple.

As for the "you pull it, you tank it" mentality, it may sometimes have a place if a dps keeps pulling against the wishes of the tank and the healer. But mostly I think it's the tank wanting to feel important by asserting authority over the group. The tank is not the king of the dungeon. In fact I often feel like the healer is the most important role, especially in leveling dungeons, yet you rarely see healers pulling this sort of egotistical nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

You brought low level content because it was convenient for your point? I never said anything about low level content. I consider it as a learning ground and not worth the mention. Also funny how you don't even need a tank in most of the lower level duties. (:

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I brought up lower level content because it's the majority of content in this game, and something you get synched down to regularly even at max level. Can't have a discussion about this without considering low level content.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I brought up lower level content because it's the majority of content in this game, and something you get synched down to regularly even at max level. Can't have a discussion about this without considering low level content.

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So my point stands - you brought it up because it was convenient for your comment. Maybe it's time to stop hiding behind it?
Any adequate human being would understand that low level content is where people learn their jobs and that you don't even have your full kit unlocked.
But if no one is new, nothing changes. Anyone can pull, tanks should tank, DPS do damage, Healer - keep everyone alive and do damage if possible.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

So my point stands - you brought it up because it was convenient for your comment. Maybe it's time to stop hiding behind it?
Any adequate human being would understand that low level content is where people learn their jobs and that you don't even have your full kit unlocked.
But if no one is new, nothing changes. Anyone can pull, tanks should tank, DPS do damage, Healer - keep everyone alive and do damage if possible.

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DPS pulling happens a lot in lower level content, so why would I pretend it doesn't exist? A lot of the people who play this game aren't adequate human beings; that's a big part of the problem. You only don't want it mentioned because it inconveniences your point.

At 80 it's less of an issue, but you might still occasionally get slow tanks and it's up to you exactly how rude you want to be about it. If you're going to run ahead and pull instead of simply talking to the tank, then you're being dismissive and inconsiderate. So, don't run to the forums crying if the tank is inconsiderate back.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

DPS pulling happens a lot in lower level content, so why would I pretend it doesn't exist? A lot of the people who play this game aren't adequate human beings; that's a big part of the problem. You only don't want it mentioned because it inconveniences your point.

At 80 it's less of an issue, but you might still occasionally get slow tanks and it's up to you exactly how rude you want to be about it. If you're going to run ahead and pull instead of simply talking to the tank, then you're being dismissive and inconsiderate. So, don't run to the forums crying if the tank is inconsiderate back.

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My initial point didn't touch low level content because it's pointless and I already explained why, you can reread my previous posts if your desire to add something that wasn't there in the first place confused you.

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A lot of the people who play this game aren't adequate human beings; that's a big part of the problem.

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Imagine actually saying something like this. I guess because you have nothing else to say? Judging people in game without actually knowing them is not something that anyone should do, just a tip.
If I run ahead of the tank, means tank is AFK or slow walking.
I shouldn't have to talk to anyone about what their job is.
So far, I don't see anyone crying, but nice try.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

My initial point didn't touch low level content because it's pointless and I already explained why, you can reread my previous posts if your desire to add something that wasn't there in the first place confused you.

Imagine actually saying something like this. I guess because you have nothing else to say? Judging people in game without actually knowing them is not something that anyone should do, just a tip.
If I run ahead of the tank, means tank is AFK or slow walking.
I shouldn't have to talk to anyone about what their job is.
So far, I don't see anyone crying, but nice try.

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Your initial point didn't specify any level of content; so one could only conclude you were referencing everything. If you're this touchy about people only responding to your exact thoughts then maybe you should learn to communicate them clearly.

As for a lot of people who play this game being less than adequate human beings; you're the one who made that a point of discussion, I merely responded to you. I form opinions on stuff like that based on how people behave; if you don't like my conclusion then... too bad?

And finally, this thread has been mostly crying about the "you pull it, you tank it" attitude some tanks have. If you don't want to be polite and talk to people, and instead would rather be dismissive and inconsiderate, then you have no grounds to cry when people are inconsiderate back. So, if the tank lets you drop dead when you run ahead don't run back here and cry your little eyes out about it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Your initial point didn't specify any level of content; so one could only conclude you were referencing everything. If you're this touchy about people only responding to your exact thoughts then maybe you should learn to communicate them clearly.

As for a lot of people who play this game being less than adequate human beings; you're the one who made that a point of discussion, I merely responded to you. I form opinions on stuff like that based on how people behave; if you don't like my conclusion then... too bad?

And finally, this thread has been mostly crying about the "you pull it, you tank it" attitude some tank have. If you don't want to be polite and talk to people, and instead would rather be dismissive and inconsiderate, then you have no grounds to cry when people are inconsiderate back. So, if the tank lets you drop dead when you run ahead don't run back here and cry your little eyes out about it.

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The first thing you did is brought up low level content because it was convenient for you to which I replied:

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

You brought low level content because it was convenient for your point? I never said anything about low level content. I consider it as a learning ground and not worth the mention. Also funny how you don't even need a tank in most of the lower level duties. (:

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Me bringing up this phrase

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Any adequate human being would understand that low level content is where people learn their jobs and that you don't even have your full kit unlocked.

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meaning anyone and everyone. No idea why would I need to explain that. You formed a conclusion by warping my words around. And also said this

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A lot of the people who play this game aren't adequate human beings; that's a big part of the problem.

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Not nice.

And the last thing.
You call it "crying", yet you have no problem with Egoistic, "I'm the king here" approach of "you pull it, you tank it" which essentially hurts THE ENTIRE group and not just one guy who hurt the tank's feelings? It's almost like you believe that the tank is the center of the universe. The answer is No btw. Everyone is equal. If you don't like someone pulling for you, be faster or be nice about it yourself.

Why is it okay for a dps to be egotistic tho?
If the entire group is having problems with the pace that's one thing, but it's usually not the case usually it's just one person freaking out.
Setting the pace is I think just as a result of what the tanks job is one of their privileges and duties.

If you have an issue with it then ask them to increase it and if they don't then kick and replace them if the others agree.
Everyone is not equal in this situation because tanking is not your job as dps the same way that a RDM shouldn't be healing instead of the healer just because they want to.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Why is it okay for a dps to be egotistic tho?
If the entire group is having problems with the pace that's one thing, but it's usually not the case usually it's just one person freaking out.
Setting the pace is I think just as a result of what the tanks job is one of their privileges and duties.

If you have an issue with it then ask them to increase it and if they don't then kick and replace them if the others agree.
Everyone is not equal in this situation because tanking is not your job as dps the same way that a RDM shouldn't be healing instead of the healer just because they want to.

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THE GROUP sets up the pace. The ENTIRE group. Not just one person.
DPS can't keep up - can't go big pulls.
Tank lacking gear and taking too much damage - can't go big pulls.
Healer can't keep up with keeping everyone alive - can't go big pulls.
But it works in the opposite way too.
If you have enough damage and things die like flies and you don't melt - you have to suck it up and overcome your fears, get out of your comfort zone as a tank. And go big. Everyone will appreciate that.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

The first thing you did is brought up low level content because it was convenient for you to which I replied:


Me bringing up this phrase

meaning anyone and everyone. No idea why would I need to explain that. You formed a conclusion by warping my words around. And also said this

Not nice.

And the last thing.
You call it "crying", yet you have no problem with Egoistic, "I'm the king here" approach of "you pull it, you tank it" which essentially hurts THE ENTIRE group and not just one guy who hurt the tank's feelings? It's almost like you believe that the tank is the center of the universe. The answer is No btw. Everyone is equal. If you don't like someone pulling for you, be faster or be nice about it yourself.

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I brought up low level content because it's the best example of where DPS pulling is rude, but it's not the only example. You're just fixated on it because it completely undermines your point.

If you think everyone and anyone who plays this game is an adequate human being then you're a bit delusional. In any case, I feel a lot of people who play this game don't fit that description, so I said as much. Problem?

And finally, it's like I said earlier; I don't have a problem with "you pull it, you tank it" because it's a response. If the DPS is being rude to the tank because he can't be bothered to make a polite request, then the tank has every right to be rude back. I don't understand where a lot of you get this belief that you can be a jerk to people and they'll just politely sit there and not do anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I brought up low level content because it's the best example of where DPS pulling is rude, but it's not the only example. You're just fixated on it because it completely undermines your point.

If you think everyone and anyone who plays this game is an adequate human being then you're a bit delusional. In any case, I feel a lot of people who play this game don't fit that description, so I said as much. Problem?

And finally, it's like I said earlier; I don't have a problem with "you pull it, you tank it" because it's a response. If the DPS is being rude to the tank because he can't be bothered to make a polite request, then the tank has every right to be rude back. I don't get where a lot of you get this belief that you can be a jerk to people and they'll just politely sit there and not do anything about it.

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I brought up this point, because low level content is not that big of a deal. I can repeat it as much as you want, don't you worry. Maybe after third time you'll finally stop focusing on it.

I'm not delusional. I just don't belittle people I don't know, sounds like an adult thing to do. You need to reconsider your perspective here. Maybe it's not them, maybe it's you.

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I don't have a problem with "you pull it, you tank it" because it's a response. If the DPS is being rude to the tank because he can't be bothered to make a polite request, then the tank has every right to be rude back

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What a great person you are. Responding to someone "being rude" with being rude, but keep in mind that you're not only being rude to your "offender" but to others who were not involved too. I think it's not me but you who is delusional here. You're not a king there, you're just a party member like other group members. What's wrong with someone else pulling for you anyway? Be faster.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

I brought up this point, because low level content is not that big of a deal. I can repeat it as much as you want, don't you worry. Maybe after third time you'll finally stop focusing on it.

I'm not delusional. I just don't belittle people I don't know, sounds like an adult thing to do. You need to reconsider your perspective here. Maybe it's not them, maybe it's you.


What a great person you are. Responding to someone "being rude" with being rude, but keep in mind that you're not only being rude to your "offender" but to others who were not involved too. I think it's not me but you who is delusional here. You're not a king there, you're just a party member like other group members. What's wrong with someone else pulling for you anyway? Be faster.

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Low level content is way more difficult than 80 dungeons because of crappy kits, and it's more likely to have new players in it, so it's probably the biggest deal when it comes to this discussion. 80 dungeons, oddly enough, are where this topic is kind of irrelevant.

And again, the assessment of people in this game is a point you brought up. If you judge them all to be adequate then good for you, but I don't agree. I get that you don't like the conclusion I've drawn, but you're the one who brought this up.

Also, I'm just saying that responding to rudeness with rudeness is fair. I honestly find it hilarious that you people all go out picking fights with tanks, and then act like the tank is the jerk for fighting back. Be considerate to people and they'll be considerate in turn. Be dismissive and rude and that's how people will respond. These are the absolute basics of interacting with people.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

So my point stands - you brought it up because it was convenient for your comment. Maybe it's time to stop hiding behind it?
Any adequate human being would understand that low level content is where people learn their jobs and that you don't even have your full kit unlocked.
But if no one is new, nothing changes. Anyone can pull, tanks should tank, DPS do damage, Healer - keep everyone alive and do damage if possible.

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If you want someone that isn't the tank to pull then don't expect the tank to lead.

Every game I've played bar Everquest, the tank pulled and everyone else was polite enough to let them. Everquest was different because your puller was usually a monk skilled at picking out single mobs from the group and feigning death if they failed or for the tank to grab it.

No DPS here have that kit. Pulling for the tank just because YOU don't like how fast it's going is just as rude as "you pull it, you tank it".

Usually if a healer can handle larger pulls, just saying so will speed the tank up. It's not hard to talk to people.