Sad to hear that blizzard is done for since i was still hoping for cross platform playing for wow (there were some rumors).
As a console player i never got the chance to give it a try.
Think we are about to see another wave.
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07-23-2021, 11:14 AMHausti
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07-23-2021, 11:30 AMSwordswornFox
After reading Act/Bliz's statement and some of the complaint...DFEH has the goods and since the investigation showed a pattern and practice of ignoring the matters in question decided to go full lawsuit.
Maybe Activision will part with some servers to SE to help get the liquidity to cover this mess. -
07-23-2021, 11:45 AMWavaryen
After reading what Blizzard stated. My wife has forbid me to going back to WOW. And as much as I love wow. I love my wife more. I'm so pissed right now. Like, i'm addicted to MMORPGS. and wow was part of my rotation. Now if I log into the game, I will always think about the victims and the woman who took her life because stupid men can't handle being around women. I'm really pissed about it. I did not need playing a mmorpg on my conscious.
Whats worse, I alpha tested wow, and my team help tested the very first dungeons with some developers. I was one of the voices that was irked that stormwind took months to make while orgrimmar was out in two weeks. So I took some pride into being part of the history of that game, and help it grow to be the hit that it was. For these morons to ruin it. -
07-23-2021, 11:53 AMTeraRamisThere will be other games. WoW was on a downward trend before any of this happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavaryen
It's possible your wife will turn around if they terminate a large portion of the staff. Either way, I would not expect quality content in WoW for a solid 2 years moving forward. This kind of public disruption can only mean complete chaos behind the scenes. Once heads start rolling, it will get even worse. -
07-23-2021, 11:54 AMSniperCTWow already lost me for other reasons, but... I met my wife in that game. It was a huge part of my young adulthood. Overwatch was super important to me in helping me figure out my identity and in general loving the hopefulness of that world. I cut my teeth on Starcraft and Warcraft II in middle and high school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavaryen
I know people who've gotten tattoos, people who came out because of these games, whole communities and long time friendships that were built. I've written over 200,000 words of fanfic for some of these games. Just look at any blizzcon and how excited people are just being there. Again, I MET MY WIFE IN WOW. These games aren't just games, they were worlds that we grew up on and with.
It's devastating and I don't blame anyone for feeling conflicted. Wasn't as personal with HP but felt the same way for those who were when Rowling turned out to be a horrendous person. -
07-23-2021, 11:57 AMWavaryenQuote:
Originally Posted by SniperCT
Ya I think it bothers me even more because I was part of the friends and family program, so watching something I invested and helped test turn out like this. This is hitting me hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraRamis
Ya, but it always had a place in my heart no matter how bad it was. I invested so much time and passion. So no matter how bad it was. I still enjoyed a month or two once and awhile. and with that public statement they just gave. I can't defend them even if they do what is right now. I mean doing it after they get caught? And that statement they made irked me.
Like using the victims family in your statement? -
07-23-2021, 12:11 PMThaciscokiddHaha. You sound like my wife. WoW is where we met and how we stay connected when I am stationed overseas. When we talked about this and our joint gaming going forward, I tried to convince her to come back here. I honestly thought she would act similar to Wavaryen's post but i was surprised it was the exact opposite. While she is disgusted with the top and how a certain well referenced character seem to get off scott free and left quietly she was more worried about the innocent people who are about to be out of a job over this than anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraRamis
Blizz on your resume is about to close a lot of doors for a lot of people. -
07-23-2021, 12:25 PMWavaryenQuote:
Originally Posted by Thaciscokidd
Ya I think I will start feeling like that soon. Right now I'm going through the first stage. Rage. -
07-23-2021, 12:41 PMTeraRamis
Actiblizzion isn't going anywhere. If you guys are truly infuriated, I applaud you for standing by your morals and quitting. But there will be a lot of people who don't do that... and the company will definitely recoup some of their losses this fall when the Diablo 2 remake launches (folks have a way of compartmentalizing outrage; there will be people who stone-cold quit WoW and then casually buy D2 like nothing happened). I think the best we can hope for is that a) the individual who is named in California's suit is eventually criminally prosecuted. There's a good chance he is in pretty dire legal jeopardy, especially if he was the direct supervisor of the woman who took her own life. Also, b) there will be a lot of turnover. I'm personally praying that one of the heads that rolls is Ion's, but I wouldn't be chuffed if they totally cleaned house. Either way, it's going to take a rather long while for all this to play out... and, in the meantime, you have Endwalker. So... it's not too bleak.
For myself, I'm done. While I'm appalled at what happened, I had already unsubbed 2 months ago. It was very clear to me that Shadowlands was never going to pull out of its nosedive, and, frankly, I was just no longer having fun with Blizzard's formula of endless grinding. That's just not what I'm looking for in entertainment anymore. -
07-23-2021, 12:42 PMFloortank
Blizzard has lost record numbers of players but WOW is more profitable than ever due to microtransactions.
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07-23-2021, 01:37 PMVipesI'm sorry, what now? Mind explaining a bit? Because if that happened, that's horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus
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07-23-2021, 02:29 PMPentheaOh yes I'm sure the state of California spent a ludicrous amount of money to launch a two year investigation into one of the biggest gaming companies in the world, and are willing to spend even more in a legal battle against them just because some women are too sensitive and don't know how to take a joke. Totally not because there is a real problem with people abusing their power and money to the point of endangering lives...sure it's unheard of for that to happen, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCadogan
Man, some people...I don't mean you of course, I mean those you speak of.
Anyone who thinks it's all lies are kidding themselves. No one gets investigated for two years by the state for no reason. You have to do something really big to earn that sort of attention. A massive wealthy company doesn't gets sued by the state purely because of baseless rumours. The state of California clearly have some proof if they're taking it this far.
And lets keep something very important in mind. This issue with severe mistreatment of female staff is not only two years old. Only the investigation is two years old. The issue would have to be far older than that to warrant that sort of attention. Never mind the fact that Alex Afrasiabi was internally known as Blizzard's Bill Cosby and he joined Blizzard in around 2004. He left Blizzard last year super quietly, unusual for someone so high up the chain, and it confused many people. Mystery solved I suppose. -
07-23-2021, 03:59 PMAlxyzntlctI don't know ElciaDeiLinus' specific circumstances, but it's not an uncommon occurrence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipes
Blizzard's Customer Support operates off of a copy/paste instruction system at this point where any issue brought up gets an immediate pre-programmed response in the hopes that it'll solve a problem and make the person go away. If it doesn't and the person responds, someone might take a few minutes to try and help. Usually it takes 2-3 iterations to get someone to actually pay attention to an issue and look into the details.
What this has lead to is if someone asking for assistance is pushy in any way, the customer support team will flag a sub-clause in their support instructions that if any players get belligerent with Customer Service, then the player could be banned from the game.
And they are quick to toss that out there if they feel someone is getting frustrated in any way.
The worst is when an issue gets flagged that is already known and Blizzard has decided not to do anything about. At which point if a player responds back even once to the CS team, they'll swing back with that clause immediately. Which is what the trend has become in the last couple of years.
One of many reasons why I'm glad to be done and away from anything and everything involving Activision/Blizzard. Only game company I know of that seems to actively despise their playerbase. -
07-23-2021, 04:11 PMNeoyoshi
I really don't want to see a crap ton of people lose their jobs, but there is this part of me that would love to see Blizzard get shut down; but I do fight against that impulse; I don't wish to see hard
working people lose their livelihoods, but how on earth does one even begin to reverse the toxic nature and the culture that's plagued that company for years without putting a lot of peoples jobs at risk? -
07-23-2021, 06:43 PMrance-sama
To think that Blizzard would sink this low. The memories of their decent games (Starcraft, Diablo 1 & 2 and Warcraft 1, 2 & 3) will remain, but it is really hard to see them like this.
Then again, Karma is a cruel mistress. -
07-23-2021, 08:59 PMShinxwildflowerThere's, to be frank, more then likely other parts of the story being left out. Why do I say this? Because I help on the CS forum of wow. When folks come to there, saying they was threatened, it's more often then not because they kept opening tickets on matters because folks were unable to take 'No' for an answer. Yes, there had been folks whom damned to get X, Y and Z and think if they kept nagging them, they'd give in. So much so, there was a thread where the OP was basically spamming tickets basically insulting and wanting something from them in the same breath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipes
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07-23-2021, 09:35 PMCaitlyn
I like to see how people stand up against sexual harassment and (Activition) Blizzard as a whole. If you got forced in such a working field, the product is cursed to get worse.
But unfortuneately, nothing will change.
Players are still too addicted to WoW, Overwatch and Diablo. After all these fails (Warcraft 3 Reforged, You dont have phones, China, WoW Shadowlands, mass layoffs, etc), there are still players who defend Blizzard. They may boycott it for a week and then return to it as nothing ever happend. Just wait for Diablo 4 or Overwatch 2 and everything is forgotten.
Even when Blizzard is guilty, they had to pay an amount where their CEOs will laugh about it. More employees got fired. WoW got F2P. And thats it.
The same thing did happen with Riot 2-3 years ago. Its just sad, that big companies will never face consequences.
I deeply hope, SE will never be like Blizzard. -
07-23-2021, 11:48 PMWavaryenQuote:
Originally Posted by Caitlyn
This is true, If my wife did not forbid me from going back. I would just sigh get mad about it, and move on. Social media taught me pretty well how to get over things quickly to the next problem.
I mean I still got some wow friends who msg me telling me that, No wonder the game is so bad right now. All the women working on it. So yaaaaaa, some people just don't care. -
07-24-2021, 08:32 AMTeraRamis
J. Allen Brack issued a response to the ongoing issues:
https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzar...lawsuit-323531
Holy crap is that Gloria Steinem name drop cringe.
*Edit* Also, this video kind of expands on what a scumbag this guy is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoRp1f0mpO0 -
07-24-2021, 09:38 AMRae88
Uninstalled Battlenet yesterday. Won't ever be going back to WoW or any Acti-Blizz games. That company is utterly disgusting.
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07-24-2021, 11:25 AMGeminiReedBeing hyper-focused on short-term profits is not a viable business strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floortank
Here's the thing, the psychology behind those purchases are to show them off, specifically to show them off to the have-nots. The problem is the non-whale audience is bleeding out hard. It's not all that fun showing off to another whale so the whales eventually get bored and quit. While things look rosy now the cash shop revenue over the next few quarters is going to tank hard as the whales abandon ship. -
07-24-2021, 01:00 PMLunalepsySit tight and enjoy the ride!Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
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07-24-2021, 03:49 PMBunnyChain
This "frat boy" culture was there all the time. Yes, very shocking, I know.
Blizzcon 2010 player question on female characterssexistprovocative clothing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi5dQzZp3f0&t=263s -
07-24-2021, 04:13 PMTeraRamisI was actually talking with my wife about that clip earlier. We concluded that an honest response would have been something along these lines:Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyChain
"The simple fact here is twofold. First, this is what the fantasy genre looks like - women are skimpily dressed. This crosses all segments of the industry, from superheroines in leotards to water nymphs in gauze dresses and mermaids wearing seashell bras. In this regard, we're neither more nor less guilty than anyone else in this industry - our women are scantily clad, but they aren't more scantily clad than women in the majority of other media.
Second - and this is in no way intended to reduce you as an individual - we know that our audience is mostly male, and we have a lot of metrics that show what they respond to. As a business, please understand that we have to design content that is catered to our largest demographics. So while that may - at face - seem sexist, it's kind of the brutal reality of competing for dollars in a world where attention spans are short, and sex sells.
Neither of those things are ideal answers (few honest answers in this world are) - they're just the hard reality of where the rubber meets the road. We know that you're not the only person who takes issue with this, and we're not trying to casually dismiss your views. But the kind of changes you're asking for need to occur on a bigger level than we can, even as a large company, control."
Instead, they chortled, made jokes about 'magazines,' and visibly diminished her with a series of blow-off replies. THAT'S what makes it sexist... not that the content is in the game (because it is in almost all games), but that, when confronted about it, they couldn't treat her like a human being asking a legitimate question in front of a crowd that, in all likelihood, was hostile towards her interests (deep down, I doubt too many of those guys present really wanted the plate bikinis to vanish). She was brave, and they handled it like cowardly imbeciles. -
07-24-2021, 06:37 PMksuyen
Sounds like a very woke culture company, which is actually pretty common. Gender abuse, mistreatment, sexual harassment, even rape, happen within a co-operate and nobody ever found out because everyone keeping their lips shut.
Edit: I just watched The Morning Show. Same story. Great acting though both Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon. -
07-24-2021, 06:51 PMPirana1
This game recently lowered its pricing again, something like $25.00 for the complete game, which ends sometime in August if I remember right. With everything happening with Activision/Blizz, this was a smart business decision, kick them while they're down, so to speak. The influx of players should continue to increase.
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07-24-2021, 10:11 PMPuremallaceAs an FF14 player in a game that has playboy bunny's holding up this example is not exactly a good idea. Personally I am fine with the stuff I see in the game since it is a fantasy world and should have its own culture/world. There are also a lot of moments where they handle female empowerment in a very good way.Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyChain
There seems to be a little confirmation here going by Twitch viewership in the WoW category that has completely tanked and is consistently lower then FF14. -
07-24-2021, 10:37 PMShinxwildflowerTo be fair, FF14 isn't all that different - all those fancy looking clothing, weird mounts you can't get anyway else in game (like the 8 person mount), with the random emotes in the store. Like really, why is a snap emote like $2? Why nit just give it for folks in game from doing a quest?Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminiReed
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07-24-2021, 11:44 PMDerio
Watching the Blizzcon vid was hard. Then finding out a female coworker commited suicide on a company trip due to harrasment is just not acceptable. I couldnt play WoW after that.
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07-24-2021, 11:55 PMGeminiReedOr the seasonal event FOMO items. Yes I find XIV's cash shop particularly irksome especially since this is a sub-required game. I won't claim to be innocent either as I've bought stuff (Cloud cycle and Whale bus) and the only reason I haven't thrown down for more is because Square doesn't offer account-wide items.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinxwildflower
But there was context to my reply. An MMO consists of multiple populations which are heavily inter-dependent. Neglect or abuse a niche to the point that people start leaving can have an affect other niches especially if the related activities depend on high population. Claiming that WoW has nothing to worry about because they're currently reporting great numbers is naive. The shrinking PCU/MAU is far more telling how things will shake out over the next several months.
While I'm happy people have discovered FF:XIV I expected it to be temporary. However the various stories about how shocked people were that they did not get abused over silly mistakes has me revising that opinion. Blizzard made a fundamental error by adopting Wildstar's failed "Gold or Bust" style of dungeon running. IMO they have chased off their casual component and it's going to take a major overhaul in thinking to bring them back.
And now... now there's a lawsuit that they've already screwed up. The ActiBlizz of the future is going to look significantly different than today's after the suit is resolved. -
07-25-2021, 03:23 AMXathyr
You know, after thinking about it for a while, although i understand that boycotting Blizzard will mostly harm workers that have nothing to do with all of this shit, i somehow feel like, if no convincing response or actions are taken by Blizzard itself i think we should definitely try to cancel them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzdyL_T-TSk -
07-25-2021, 10:00 AMVipesI don’t know about you, but I don’t buy things to show off. I didn’t buy Cloud’s bike to rub it in F2Ps or people who don’t buy mounts. I bought Cloud’s bike because I love the mount. I didn’t buy the Red Shift power armor skin in Fallout 76 to show it off to people who don’t buy atoms. I bought it because it looks so much like a Zaku and I’m a Gundam fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminiReed
Maybe I just don’t understand this concept. -
07-25-2021, 10:53 PMY2K21
As much as I like FF14 community to grow and prosper, I think people going out of their way to advertise FF14 during this controversy where people have allegedly died and with large amounts of alleged stories of sexual harassment -- it reeks of tone-deafness and I would expect better out of a more welcoming community than grandstanding of real trauma and tragedy to dab on ABK.
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07-25-2021, 11:25 PMShinxwildflowerTo jump off this, FF posters in other places are...come off as bit of jerk in places. Basically soap boxing the game upon whatever event is going on, all while giving back-handed compliments in regards to whatever platform they're on. So much so, it kind of making this place look a bit stuck up from the outsider point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K21
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07-26-2021, 05:25 AMKitKatnip
This is just a big mess all around. I feel bad for players who really enjoy playing Blizzard games and have for years. I also feel bad for Blizzard employees that had nothing to do with this. It must feel horrible to work for them right about now.
I'm glad to see FFXIV growing but I just wish it was for a different reason.
Maybe the afk timer will help with the server congestion. We'll know it's bad if they sell out of digital copies again. -
07-26-2021, 05:28 AMElissar
An annoying fact: FFXIV had many issues during his launch in Europe and North America in 2013. It's 2021 and we will face the same issue...
Some links
https://gotgame.com/2013/09/04/ffxiv...-buy-the-game/
https://www.finalfantasyunion.com/ne...sates-players/
http://ffxivrealm.com/threads/server-problems.2258/ -
07-26-2021, 05:45 AMDPZ2
To be clear, "frat boy culture" is not a term I expect to find in the legal documents presented to the court, any more than I expect condemnation of the entire 9500+ employee workforce.
I expect a ruling with a fine and a general hand-waving from authorities, and a 'change' in corporate policies once that is done.
Twitter, on the other hand, looks like it might just want to 'kill the company' to prove it can do so, despite the havoc that might ensue. Then again, the age of Electronic Warriors (for ill or for good) is moving along just fine without my help. -
07-26-2021, 05:50 AMKolsykol
I honestly don't think this will have much of an effect.
The truth is that most people either don't care or won't even hear about it ( the second is the most common ).
Okay so to say that people don't care is a bit unfair, but they don't care enough to quit playing for some kind of a moral reason.
This is what makes it even more disappointing to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrThinker
I can't remember a time when I didn't play Blizzard games, I grew up with them.
So to think of how much money I spent on them and supported them with... And what high regard I held them in.
It's disappointing on a whole other level.
Well this is another thing too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPZ2
People love to be mad on Twitter, there are some things that I think people are only now bringing up because they can circlejerk about it and be mad about it.
Like that clip from the 2010 QnA, I do agree that they handled the question poorly but lets be real here people are severely overexaggerating their anger about it and are being captain hindsight about it.
One of the devs that were on the panel and now works at Riot but didn't say anything kinda explained it from his pov too.
They couldn't even see the people from that distance so he couldn't see how she was reacting to it and if he had then he probably would've said something, and I think JAB would've too tbh.
And Blizzard do expect people at QnA's to do '' gotcha '' questions so that's how they actually approached it and not as genuine.
That's also why you got things like '' don't you guys have phones? '', and most people ask questions like '' so when will you buff my class? '' etc.
Especially when you take into consideration HOW she asked her question, the actual context and everything put together makes it not this horrifying event imo.
Again they handled the question poorly, but at the same time I think that the extent to which people are getting mad about it now is because it's another thing to be mad about.
And that's also why people are bringing it up and getting mad about it now too.
Overall point being, Twitter is mad but long-term it doesn't matter.
And we have so many other cases to point to.
I am not saying that it's right and that it shouldn't matter, because these allegations are really messed up and I feel truly disgusted by them.
But at the same time people need to understand that the people who exist online on forums and on Twitter etc are an extremely tiny minority. -
07-26-2021, 06:56 AMSirCadogan
Wow developers have posted that development for WOW is halted until further notice. I predicted this on the wow forums and got ridiculed badly for it. I feel vindicated but sad too. Despite the company issues the game was good.
That said, I’d expect this fall to see huge numbers of players looking for a game to play, and with EW coming out the hold outs will probably make their way to FF. -
07-26-2021, 07:20 AMItMeReally?Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCadogan
I haven't heard about this and I can't google anything up about it.
Can you provide a link please?