Congratulations Square Enix! FF4 surpasses WoW this year. (Source inside)

FFXIV is in a much better place than Retail WoW. I am not surprised to see more active players in XIV than Retail. Overall subs for WoW may be higher across Classic and Retail, but FFXIV is hands down the better game. As long as it keeps trending upward I don't doubt it will take the top spot overall... eventually.

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Originally Posted by Blackwing_Soul

FFXIV is in a much better place than Retail WoW. I am not surprised to see more active players in XIV than Retail. Overall subs for WoW may be higher across Classic and Retail, but FFXIV is hands down the better game. As long as it keeps trending upward I don't doubt it will take the top spot overall... eventually.

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Popularity doesn't make a game good, what matters is the gameplay, the contents it has, the endgame, the story and then anything else (in that order).

-Gameplay? I'd say that point goes straight to WoW, if WoW did anything good, it is the way it plays, the way classes work and the way they interact with each other and the enviroment. FFXIV? it is as basic as it can get.
-Content? to be honest, i can't compare the two games on this because i don't know every berry WoW has to offer.
-Endgame? On the PvP side of things, WoW has definitely the upper hand because of the gameplay aspect mentioned above.
-Story? Lich King aside, i'd say FFXIV scores this one, without a doubt.

That's at least, my two cents on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Not disagreeing -- but I find it completely weird that WoW players would jump ship as the expansion ends to embrace a six month content drought in a different game to the point where a website surpassed LuckyBancho's census at the peak of ShB in 5.3.

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For those "jumping ship" who are seeking a different experience and have yet to dive into FF XIV, there isn't a 6 month (5 months-ish now and growing shorter by the day) content drought. It's all new to them. I don't think you understand that.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

There's a lot about WoW that I like better, but not enough for me to continue playing it. The main things I miss are some of the playable races such as the Blood Elves who I adored both in terms of their character models and the lore surrounding them. I also miss some of the classes - Death Knight, Warlock, Druid and Demon Hunter in particular. Reaper is coming with Endwalker and looks promising, though hopefully it is written to truly be a 'darker job'.

All in all, I think there's a lot of elements that both MMO's could take from each other moving forward.

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Agreed, but unfortunately I don't see either changing. FFXIV has sat quite comfortably in it's niche, and seems to be trying to cater even more to a casual playerbase, while WoW is there to cater to the more hardcore. I don't really see this as a good thing, I'd rather see SE branch out more in terms of content in FFXIV, and start giving us more in general as well.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

For those "jumping ship" who are seeking a different experience and have yet to dive into FF XIV, there isn't a 6 month (5 months-ish now and growing shorter by the day) content drought. It's all new to them. I don't think you understand that.

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Content drought? We will have new content and events coming out every month until EW, except maybe October. There's a TON of stuff to do, new content or otherwise!

This is sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

For those "jumping ship" who are seeking a different experience and have yet to dive into FF XIV, there isn't a 6 month (5 months-ish now and growing shorter by the day) content drought. It's all new to them. I don't think you understand that.

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I think it really all depends on what the mindset is.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Content drought? We will have new content and events coming out every month until EW, except maybe October. There's a TON of stuff to do, new content or otherwise!

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Like what?

Make it Rain? If its anywhere close to what it was in 2020 -- it going to not be much of anything.

5.57 and 5.58 will most likely be similar to how the .57 and .58 patches were previous. -- system adjustments towards battle end as the expansion closes. Not really a lot of content that will be added between those two.

The FFXV event? Not exactly new content -- but Ill consider that; but its a short questline for goodies.

Outside of that -- you mainly have six months of not much different since 5.55 launch.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Content drought? We will have new content and events coming out every month until EW, except maybe October. There's a TON of stuff to do, new content or otherwise!

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We won't be getting much new stuff though outside of some holiday events. Personally, I still have a ton of things I want to do, and there's definitely content there for the next however many months until Endwalker. But there's not going to be any meaty content drops until the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

I think it really all depends on what the mindset is.

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Not really, no. There's a lot to do for new players. A fair amount for us as well if we seek it out.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Not really, no. There's a lot to do for new players. A fair amount for us as well if we seek it out.

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Really depends what they want for the game -- as much as there is to do: player have to have the drive to do it. Its why I dont necessarily buy into "theres a lot to do and people will seek it out".

Housing is already limiting as it is. Do we expect new players to dive head first into Eureka/Bozja? Do we expect them to pick up Blue Mage? Do we expect them to do Golden Saucer things?

Its all dependent on what the player wants to do. If a player just wants to quest and do instances -- it could get tiring after some time.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

We won't be getting much new stuff though outside of some holiday events. Personally, I still have a ton of things I want to do, and there's definitely content there for the next however many months until Endwalker. But there's not going to be any meaty content drops until the expansion.



Not really, no. There's a lot to do for new players. A fair amount for us as well if we seek it out.

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Final Fantasy XIV has this pretty well known paradox going on. For while it has literally barrel loads of content. It also has no content at all.

This is especially true for newer players thanks in part to the unsynced system which allows players to consume a boat load of content in no time at all.. you wanna do the coil story for example. Can have the whole thing done in 90 minutes. Less if you don't bother reading the dialogue.

Alexander raids same thing. Eden again... extreme primal you can pretty much get clears for an entire expansions worth in 30 minutes... you can quite honestly consume years of content in a single evening.

One of the other arguements is that major patches in XIV really don't offer much new content either. You can quite literally have it all done in a couple of hours and then be back to the same old stuff you've been doing since you began playing.

Got a running joke with a couple of my friends in that everytime they drop round my house and catch me playing I am always doing the same pieces of content. Which comes up with comments like dam dont they ever add new content to this game your still doing the same things...

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Final Fantasy XIV has this pretty well known paradox going on. For while it has literally barrel loads of content. It also has no content at all.

This is especially true for newer players thanks in part to the unsynced system which allows players to consume a boat load of content in no time at all.. you wanna do the coil story for example. Can have the whole thing done in 90 minutes. Less if you don't bother reading the dialogue.

Alexander raids same thing. Eden again... extreme primal you can pretty much get clears for an entire expansions worth in 30 minutes... you can quite honestly consume years of content in a single evening.

One of the other arguements is that major patches in XIV really don't offer much new content either. You can quite literally have it all done in a couple of hours and then be back to the same old stuff you've been doing since you began playing.

Got a running joke with a couple of my friends in that everytime they drop round my house and catch me playing I am always doing the same pieces of content. Which comes up with comments like dam dont they ever add new content to this game your still doing the same things...

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And then you have the people saying it’s your problem if you rush through content and it’s like...i’m not TRYING to rush through content. There just isn’t much depth to it. Am i supposed to just purposely like, play bad so content takes longer? I don’t get it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Agreed, but unfortunately I don't see either changing. FFXIV has sat quite comfortably in it's niche, and seems to be trying to cater even more to a casual playerbase, while WoW is there to cater to the more hardcore. I don't really see this as a good thing, I'd rather see SE branch out more in terms of content in FFXIV, and start giving us more in general as well.

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WoW requires a certain amount of basic competence when it comes to certain endgame content, which is only fair on the long run. Catering to casual players too much, especially in endgame content brings more trouble than it solves solutions. Why? Because the moment you hit the True Endgame of FFXIV, what do you got left to keep youself occupied for all those months until the next big update hits?
-PvP is a no-go because it is one of the last things Squeenix cares or even understands about.
-Raiding? Once you got what you wanted, even that chapter is behind you in no-time, all you can do is just helping other people reach the same void you reached already.
-Hunts? Lol.
-BLU? See Raiding.
-Triple Triad & Mahjong? I guess you do have some sort of endgame with those, especially the latter. But i play FFXIV not for the Minigames it has.
All that is truly left out of this, is archievement/mount hunting and i am confident to say that most casual players will burn out on this way before they reach the 50% mark.

If content is being created to be more difficult and complex, it slows down the progress of reaching what i would call the "mastery of the game", where you can proudly say that you did everything and experienced every fruit this game has to offer. And once you reach that point, you will most likely sooner or later, quit the game for at least a few years (if not forever), just so that you can be occupied for a few more weeks before going into hybernation again.

blizzard shill tears are the most sweet and nourishing

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

blizzard shill tears are the most sweet and nourishing

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I'm rather quick to bash Blizzard, though I'm not as harsh about it as I used to be. Comes with the territory though. I've gotten over it for the most part, though I will always be a little salty because of what happened to WoW. Life's too short to be so stressed about something, which is part of what fueled me to quit WoW to begin with. All of that said, the very premise of this thread is incorrect. FF XIV has not surpassed WoW. Not yet, anyway. If Blizzard keeps to their current course though...it probably will in a few short years. Not THIS year, but most likely a few down the road. I don't want either game to fail, so I'd like to see Blizzard realize the error of their ways, but I doubt they will at this point.

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Originally Posted by Acece

I mean I subbed to wow for like 3 months. I completed my Ksm, Aotc and got the achievement mount from the raid. There was no daily grinds, at most I needed to get gear. I would say ffxiv has more "dirty tricks" currently with the housing that kept me subbed 3 months where I didn't play (which i did let it fall and lost my house).

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Housing is optional (I just have an apartment for example). Housing is not a dirty trick. You should not prevent someone who is actually playing from having a house while you aren't even playing. That's a reasonable perspective for Square Enix to hold that all the people still trying to get a house appreciate so that they can actually get one.

You have the option to only have an apartment or FC room instead if you don't want to commit to the game that much, but it is a form of commitment to the game.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Housing is optional (I just have an apartment for example). Housing is not a dirty trick. You should not prevent someone who is actually playing from having a house while you aren't even playing. That's a reasonable perspective for Square Enix to hold that all the people still trying to get a house appreciate so that they can actually get one.

You have the option to only have an apartment or FC room instead if you don't want to commit to the game that much, but it is a form of commitment to the game.

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Ehhh it’s pretty dirty. Especially when Yoshi p himself is like,”oh you guys should take a break from the game.” Yet people who have a house, really can’t. It wouldn’t be as big of an issue if the housing system wasn’t utter crap. Clicking on a placard for hours on end isn’t healthy and it’s something SE seriously needs to address because it’s been like this for 6 years now. We could just have instanced housing which would fix many many many issues with housing but because Yoshi P doesn’t like it, it’s not happening.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Ehhh it’s pretty dirty. Especially when Yoshi p himself is like,”oh you guys should take a break from the game.” Yet people who have a house, really can’t. It wouldn’t be as big of an issue if the housing system wasn’t utter crap. Clicking on a placard for hours on end isn’t healthy and it’s something SE seriously needs to address because it’s been like this for 6 years now. We could just have instanced housing which would fix many many many issues with housing but because Yoshi P doesn’t like it, it’s not happening.

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Add to that the infamous quote about housing specifically NOT being tied to a subscription..

Now I do get that yeah remove hosues from people that haven't logged in for a very long time as there's a good chance many of those players mightnever come back.. but the system should allow you to take breaks especially with the frequency at which yoshi-p keeps saying its cool for players to take breaks..

i dunno 3-6 months (1 content tier) doesnt sound to unreasonable

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Add to that the infamous quote about housing specifically NOT being tied to a subscription..

Now I do get that yeah remove hosues from people that haven't logged in for a very long time as there's a good chance many of those players mightnever come back.. but the system should allow you to take breaks especially with the frequency at which yoshi-p keeps saying its cool for players to take breaks..

i dunno 3-6 months (1 content tier) doesnt sound to unreasonable

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It’s especially bad when you realize there’s literally players that own entire wards...and they’re doing nothing about that. I agree though that’s a good amount of time. Personally i have a house and i was going to unsub until a month before 6.0, but because of the system i’m going to have to sub every other month just so i can keep it lol.

And... It was a short fad.

running out of original material I see

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

running out of original material I see

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Gravedigger scared him off and the morgue upped security I guess.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Congratulations Square Enix! FF4 surpasses WoW this year.

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I'd correct this, but after Endwalker, this game really just is FF4. This man was out here predicting the future.

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Originally Posted by Minifie

Gravedigger scared him off and the morgue upped security I guess.

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SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY!

GRRRRAVVVVVEEEEEDIIIIGGGGGEEEERRRR!

https://i.ibb.co/XYG6fTB/giphy-11.gif

So the article is quoting MMO-Population.com, and barring questions about HOW they get their data, the FF14 data seems misrepresented.

Here's what the top 10 list shows:

https://i.imgur.com/gjtpSJd.png

It shows WoW at 1.21 M active players and FF14 at 1.27 yeah?

If we click WoW it also shows 1.21 M on that page:

https://i.imgur.com/sXK0c5m.png

But when we check FF14s page it says 846k

https://i.imgur.com/FitcQ3B.png

So the numbers the article is quoting are wrong, one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

So the article is quoting MMO-Population.com, and barring questions about HOW they get their data, the FF14 data seems misrepresented.

Here's what the top 10 list shows:

https://i.imgur.com/gjtpSJd.png

It shows WoW at 1.21 M active players and FF14 at 1.27 yeah?

If we click WoW it also shows 1.21 M on that page:

https://i.imgur.com/sXK0c5m.png

But when we check FF14s page it says 846k

https://i.imgur.com/FitcQ3B.png

So the numbers the article is quoting are wrong, one way or another.

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If it’s legit in any capacity wooooo if it ain’t well that’s still a high number… I’m also concerned after the handling of season 1 of Diablo 4 how anyone trusts blizzard for that game. I know we talk about 15 patches with content or balance but god damn blizzard they took the cake with season 1s patch notes lol.

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Originally Posted by TheNight

And... It was a short fad.

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I very much hope that your predisposition toward digging up old threads will be too.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

So the article is quoting MMO-Population.com, and barring questions about HOW they get their data, the FF14 data seems misrepresented.

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How they get their data is pretty important.

I suspect the data is misrepresented for all the games there. Baldur's Gate III just officially released last week even if start up supporters have had access for a few years.

I don't understand how Diablo 4 has any players left at all. That game is a way bigger dumpster fire than FFXIV and WoW, but somehow it keeps chugging along. Granted, like four of its six cylinders aren't functional anymore, but it's trying dammit. WoW's still got four functional cylinders, and FFXIV is running on like three and one more that only fires on every third stroke.

wow still living rent free in soooo many minds :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I don't understand how Diablo 4 has any players left at all. That game is a way bigger dumpster fire than FFXIV and WoW, but somehow it keeps chugging along. Granted, like four of its six cylinders aren't functional anymore, but it's trying dammit. WoW's still got four functional cylinders, and FFXIV is running on like three and one more that only fires on every third stroke.

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I don't get that either. I uninstalled wow and cod When activision made changes that really annoyed me. I don't know why people sticks around. Probably similar to how people somehow can't end and abusive relationship

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Congratulations Square Enix for having developers that treat players with respect.

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And now we just need the playerbase to treat the developers with respect and stop modding everything to the point where they end up playing IMVU XIV.

Not surprised - Final Fantasy IV is a pretty good game, and was relatively recently (re)released as a pixel remaster.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

So the article is quoting MMO-Population.com, and barring questions about HOW they get their data, the FF14 data seems misrepresented.

Here's what the top 10 list shows:

https://i.imgur.com/gjtpSJd.png

It shows WoW at 1.21 M active players and FF14 at 1.27 yeah?

If we click WoW it also shows 1.21 M on that page:

https://i.imgur.com/sXK0c5m.png

But when we check FF14s page it says 846k

https://i.imgur.com/FitcQ3B.png

So the numbers the article is quoting are wrong, one way or another.

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I think that site is inaccurate because it also said ff11 had a million active players and hundreds of thousands of daily logins or something according to someone linking that site on a ff11 stream. The numbers they provide seem way off for all the games they calculate.

WoW just keeps going downhill. Their forums are a cesspool as well, with a such an incompetent and lazy moderation team whom only act based off reports. Ignoring the fact that each player character is counted as "unique" on the forums, so players can make level 10 alts and use them on the forum to mass report users to get them banned.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

WoW just keeps going downhill. Their forums are a cesspool as well, with a such an incompetent and lazy moderation team whom only act based off reports. Ignoring the fact that each player character is counted as "unique" on the forums, so players can make level 10 alts and use them on the forum to mass report users to get them banned.

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I don't think you can judge how a game is based on its forums. I wouldn't want people judging what FF14 is based on the mess that is our forums either haha Dragonflight has actually been a really fun time, probably the best the game has been since Legion.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

You don't have to white knight Blizzard you know? Boby won't pay you for this. It's almost like any post which remotely mentions WoW would get you up in arms and ready to nuke.

The context by no means implied FFXIV is better.

Ahhh, can't believe calling people white knight could feel THIS good.

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https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...qMGv/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

You don't have to white knight Blizzard you know? Boby won't pay you for this. It's almost like any post which remotely mentions WoW would get you up in arms and ready to nuke.

The context by no means implied FFXIV is better.

Ahhh, can't believe calling people white knight could feel THIS good.

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Every mmo/online multiplayer game has a lack of moderation i dont know how pointing that out makes them a wow white knight.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Every mmo/online multiplayer game has a lack of moderation i dont know how pointing that out makes them a wow white knight.

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You should check out ESO's forums. They tend to moderate a lot. Even minor jokes at times.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

You should check out ESO's forums. They tend to moderate a lot. Even minor jokes at times.

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ESO is probably one of the few that does moderate. Most others i visit hardly get any moderation if any. There is occasional moderation here but it happens rarely.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

I don't think you can judge how a game is based on its forums. I wouldn't want people judging what FF14 is based on the mess that is our forums either haha Dragonflight has actually been a really fun time, probably the best the game has been since Legion.

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Sadly that doesn't say much about Dragonflight. WoW hasn't been good since The Frozen Throne.

You really can’t. Game forums are mostly filled with nolifers, RMT shills, and trolls.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

Sadly that doesn't say much about Dragonflight. WoW hasn't been good since The Frozen Throne.

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The Frozen Throne wasn't WoW, it was Warcraft III. Did you mean Wrath of the Lich King?