Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

Roleplay and other such ads dont belong in party finder, simple as that. I'm glad they are enforcing the rules here. Annoying seeing nsfw rp ads in party finder and other such things. The GM has said other avenues you can take, if anything you should be campaigning for improvements to the fellowships because they suck as is atm.

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Originally Posted by RickmanUK

I was meaning that all the Social Aspects of the Game that are on PF should be treated the same and reported/moved to a seperate thing so everyone is on the same page. That way the PF can remain for the pure "Do content as soon as group is ready", and adverts for FCs, Statics Selling, Crafting etc are under a seperate thing... Since then they can act on a definitive ruleset for PF and SF (Social Finder) and this type of thing shouldn't come up again.... It probably will depending on WHY it happened (Could be some bad faith actors against RP, could be a GM acting upon their own preferences etc).

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Right, the source of the incident is still unknown, and for people playing the blame game... it's not going to achieve anything. However, we DO need clarification from SE and a fair and amenable resolution does need to be found as it has apparently *points to the previous 8 pages* caused some kind of discourse and rift in the game community as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Borril

That's what's making me curious, I was doing some minor investigating into this because...tired and its too early to do much. None of the players posted as being reported are of the sane FC so a big mass of PF adds all advertising the same group is unlikely. The connecting factor is one GM.

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I don't think the FC bit is much of a tell, there are a large number of events (roleplay and otherwise) run by a cross FC group. On crystal cross-FC RP Events are more the norm than FC centric.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...58/unknown.png

From I believe a year ago. Why is it only this GM in all these new reports? Is someone going rogue here?

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Roleplay and other such ads dont belong in party finder, simple as that. I'm glad they are enforcing the rules here. Annoying seeing nsfw rp ads in party finder and other such things. The GM has said other avenues you can take, if anything you should be campaigning for improvements to the fellowships because they suck as is atm.

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And while I do agree about Fellowships... the other alternatives were already defeated as non-amenable resources for several reasons. The argument shouldn't be what does and doesn't belong (cause then it literally becomes a game of politics) but rather how can SE design this better to accommodate for different aspects of the gaming community.

Can we get a moderator to advise the official Square Enix stance:

Is using the Party Finder "Other" tab acceptable for roleplay events and venues?

But where will I get my HQ feet pics now? :P

Was a real advert I saw in PF.

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Originally Posted by Nakarumi

And while I do agree about Fellowships... the other alternatives were already defeated as non-amenable resources for several reasons. The argument shouldn't be what does and doesn't belong (cause then it literally becomes a game of politics) but rather how can SE design this better to accommodate for different aspects of the gaming community.

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I'm inclined to agree with everything, I just find the enabling factor of PF is too great. Far too great.

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Originally Posted by Teppie

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...58/unknown.png

From I believe a year ago. Why is it only this GM in all these new reports? Is someone going rogue here?

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Arguably...

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

To ERP in private is 1 thing. To publicly announce such activities, one could argue violates both 3.3, and 3.6

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Originally Posted by Awha

But where will I get my HQ feet pics now? :P

Was a real advert I saw in PF.

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Run Kefka savage, during the God Kefka phase transition you get a nice close up of his feet like it's a Tarantino movie; now he's a man who loves feet.

Don't see any changes in the pf ads for clubs and 18+ content on Crystal. Tons of it in the evenings and very popular for many who frequent those establishments.

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Originally Posted by Awha

But where will I get my HQ feet pics now? :P

Was a real advert I saw in PF.

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Seen Similar before.. also advertising for a "Big Mammary Goth GF, Preferably Roegaedyn" from a Lala... and other strangeness. Can say they don't belong if you want... but neither do "Selling E12S Runs, pm for Details" belong either. atleast not in the "Party Finder". Like I said.. make that for the "Need a group for this ASAP" and add a "Social Finder" one for Adverts, Sales, FC's, RP etc.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Roleplay and other such ads dont belong in party finder, simple as that. I'm glad they are enforcing the rules here. Annoying seeing nsfw rp ads in party finder and other such things. The GM has said other avenues you can take, if anything you should be campaigning for improvements to the fellowships because they suck as is atm.

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The problem is that we cannot find any such rule aside from "the GM said so." ToS 3.3, which was cited per the first page, reads as follows:

"3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly."

This could, in theory, apply to brothels or selling ERP in PF since it specifically lists "13 years or older." It has zero grounding for any other instance. This also directly conflicts with previous input from another GM from earlier on, which should take precedence barring some kind of ToS change not listed on the web page I pulled up minutes ago.

The only other possible ToS issue could come from ToS 3.2:

"3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers."

This is pretty broad by design, but it's a stretch to say that "scrolling to the very bottom of PF" is disruptive.

To quote the official Game Manual from Square Enix's website:

"The Party Finder allows players to recruit adventurers on the same World or data center who share common goals. It is also possible to recruit specific players to a party using a private party password."

That's it. That's all the official policy we can see. There is no mention of prohibiting PF from only using content. All it says is "share common goals," which RP advertisements fulfill.

It would be wonderful to get some official clarification on this, as nothing I can find makes this justified aside from heavy-handed (and poorly targeted) punishment with poor justification. If there is some rule I have missed according to the information publicly available to players, let me know. I know this change will hamstring the RP community and drive out many people to whom the RP community is their preferred content and why they keep their subscription up.

If there is no explicit rules justification for these punishments, I think disciplinary action on the GM and forgiveness of the unauthorized warnings is warranted.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I'm inclined to agree with everything, I just find the enabling factor of PF is too great. Far too great.



Arguably...

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

To ERP in private is 1 thing. To publicly announce such activities, one could argue violates both 3.3, and 3.6

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Very few of the venues that were taken down "Publicly" announced such activities. I hardly think having a message that says [E/RP 18+] is publicly ERP'ing. And that's the extent of what most venues advertise with.

This is outrageous! As someone who mostly RPs I can not tell you the number of late night I have just opened party finder, scrolled to the other tab to look for things to do. PF is the lifeblood of finding content and RPing IS content. This game has so much social life and not just RP venues, but art parties, server wide event giveaways, tournaments, open houses. Do you expect those to go down as well? If so, you are killing a huge community in this game. I get that maybe having 5 PFs for the same venue is a little much but this is a spam issue. What is the "other" tab supposed to be used for then.

Finally, is this happening on all data centers? Or is this one GM with a misunderstanding. Years of this happening and it was never a problem before, why the change?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Arguably...

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

To ERP in private is 1 thing. To publicly announce such activities, one could argue violates both 3.3, and 3.6

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And this is why we need a definitive answer from SE. This is far too open for both sides to argue on equal terms.

Can a single person claiming it's justified for the reason given by the GM give me an explanation as to what the "Other" tab is for if it it isn't for things other than running content? What form of sanctioned, structured content is there in the game currently that doesn't fall under one of the other tabs?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I'm inclined to agree with everything, I just find the enabling factor of PF is too great. Far too great.



Arguably...

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

To ERP in private is 1 thing. To publicly announce such activities, one could argue violates both 3.3, and 3.6

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I mean there's nothing illegal with erotica in the real world. Also I might be biased but I consider myself a reasonable person that never really considered the RP/ERP advertisements offensive? Most of them are pretty on the nose. "Come visit us, here is our theme!" About sums it up.

This just seems rather puritan to me, at a certain point we can say short skirts are offensive or wearing no armor in Limsa.

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Originally Posted by Aslae

Very few of the venues that were taken down "Publicly" announced such activities. I hardly think having a message that says [E/RP 18+] is publicly ERP'ing. And that's the extent of what most venues advertise with.

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It is publicly disclosing the possibility of it, which makes it open to those who are considered vulnerable/minors. So I am inclined to say that it could be interpreted as violating 3.3 (Agree to act accordingly. - I hope you don't plan on arguing against this point). Since I didn't make it clear and worded it poorly. Let's say it creates an easily accessible situation whereby a minor would have access to something they otherwise quite arguably shouldn't, which arguably violates clause 3.6. Whether or not it specifies 18+ doesn't matter. There's nothing actually enforcing it.

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Originally Posted by Teppie

I mean there's nothing illegal with erotica in the real world. Also I might be biased but I consider myself a reasonable person that never really considered the RP/ERP advertisements offensive? Most of them are pretty on the nose. "Come visit us, here is our theme!" About sums it up.

This just seems rather puritan to me, at a certain point we can say short skirts are offensive or wearing no armor in Limsa.

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Sure there's nothing against erotica in the real world, or online if you completely ignore the factor of potentially doing it with a minor. There's a reason I emboldened the Ages 13 and up section.

I don't consider them offensive, personally. But there are situations where making it openly and easily accessible is dangerous.

Indeed

/10char

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Originally Posted by TheRedChameleon

Can a single person claiming it's justified for the reason given by the GM give me an explanation as to what the "Other" tab is for if it it isn't for things other than running content? What form of sanctioned, structured content is there in the game currently that doesn't fall under one of the other tabs?

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I'm trying to figure this out too frankly. All other content is covered in the other tabs as far as I can tell.

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Originally Posted by TheRedChameleon

Can a single person claiming it's justified for the reason given by the GM give me an explanation as to what the "Other" tab is for if it it isn't for things other than running content? What form of sanctioned, structured content is there in the game currently that doesn't fall under one of the other tabs?

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Only thing I can think of is Blue Mage Dungeon/Raid Parties that are just after "Any/all" Dungeon skills.. so not specifically advertising exact dungeons. But those kinda faded away as the patches go by... that is about the only thing I can think of as being on there that's not an Advert for a Static/FC or RP that would be "Content"

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It is publicly disclosing the possibility of it, which makes it open to those who are considered vulnerable/minors. So I am inclined to say that it could be interpreted as violating 3.3 (Agree to act accordingly. - I hope you don't plan on arguing against this point). Since I didn't make it clear and worded it poorly. Let's say it creates an easily accessible situation whereby a minor would have access to something they otherwise quite arguably shouldn't, which arguably violates clause 3.6. Whether or not it specifies 18+ doesn't matter. There's nothing actually enforcing it.

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This is a valid point and would be acceptable if this was the way it was presented to me by the GM, but this isn't the reasoning he gave me, and the violating of 3.3 to me seems like an arbitrary choice given a lack of available, more relevant options to cite me with. No where in my conversation with the GM last night did he mention any of this. I do understand your point, though.

Since someone did say the warnings were on multiple DCs, I'd like to know if it was the same mod. A sudden change in policy, without an official announcement beforehand, seems unlikely, especially with how widely used the PF is by RPers.

Now, I can't comment on DCs other than my own, and I'm on Elemental, but the venue ads still comply with the rules as stated by the GM. Generally, someone who runs an rp venue will have it closed when they're offline/don't want to rp, and when they do, they may list it in the pf, indicating they are looking for people to rp (content, rp is content even if it's not an official "duty") with right now. This is different from the Fellowship Finder, which is not a specific "let's do this immediately at this place" but more of a "I like this thing, who else likes this thing, maybe we'll talk sometime."

Of course, I don't know what PF listings got hit, but the way I understand venue listings, this all just seems very odd to me.

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Originally Posted by Aslae

This is a valid point and would be acceptable if this was the way it was presented to me by the GM, but this isn't the reasoning he gave me, and the violating of 3.3 to me seems like an arbitrary choice given a lack of available, more relevant options to cite me with. No where in my conversation with the GM last night did he mention any of this. I do understand your point, though.

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Of course, my only argument is there's a lack of interpretation of the guidelines and service agreement. With a lot of it being taken as literal face value. I don't blame them as such for the understanding seeing as it comes with understanding possible real-world implications that can occur.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It is publicly disclosing the possibility of it, which makes it open to those who are considered vulnerable/minors. So I am inclined to say that it could be interpreted as violating 3.3 (Agree to act accordingly. - I hope you don't plan on arguing against this point). Since I didn't make it clear and worded it poorly. Let's say it creates an easily accessible situation whereby a minor would have access to something they otherwise quite arguably shouldn't, which arguably violates clause 3.6. Whether or not it specifies 18+ doesn't matter. There's nothing actually enforcing it.



Sure there's nothing against erotica in the real world, or online if you completely ignore the factor of potentially doing it with a minor. There's a reason I emboldened the Ages 13 and up section.

I don't consider them offensive, personally. But there are situations where making it openly and easily accessible is dangerous.

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Then this becomes an issue of proper moderation and observation of the child whose parents/caretakers are not monitoring their children's activities. Pornhub is accessible at just a couple clicks of a mouse but it's not the website's fault for a teen that lies and sneaks onto their website.

But there would be a much more comfortable level if there was a designation for more mature content of some sorts as to help childproof it more as we have no way of age verification.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Of course, my only argument is there's a lack of interpretation of the guidelines and service agreement. With a lot of it being taken as literal face value. I don't blame them as such for the understanding seeing as it comes with understanding possible real-world implications that can occur.

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I agree with you, but the problem is this isn't what the GM expressed to me when I was jailed. Like nothing even close to that. So we're extrapolating his intentions from his, again seemingly arbitrary, choice of ToS. Basically, we like we've all been saying in this thread, we need a clear and concise reason this happened, and if it's against ToS, I'd prefer it to be more clearly stated.

This is ridiculous. They let runsellers spam their ads in the dungeon categories but ban people for using the OTHER category for purposes OTHER than existing content.

SE gives us bad in-game communication features then gets mad we use the only one that works. Some rp venues are just that, regular venues and places to hang out. Most of the pf's hit on adam all had 18+ in the mentions. I don't have 18+ put on my venue and I haven't been targeted yet. I don't know if that is the trigger or just in general they're going to try to force us into fellowships that don't even work for our purpose and that no one knows about. Some of yall can get mad all you want if you don't rp but like it or not it's a big part of the game and a big selling point for SE even more so than raiding. That's why we got 10 different umbrellas and animal crossing farming but no ult till October. >w> So rp is what a lot of us do in the downtime. Attacking venues will just force them onto discord more and underground like the modding and goose communities. Not to mention if they didn't want us posting they wouldn't allow us to put up party finders blank.

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Originally Posted by Shuhannazy

SE gives us bad in-game communication features then gets mad we use the only one that works. Some rp venues are just that, regular venues and places to hang out. Most of the pf's hit on adam all had 18+ in the mentions. I don't have 18+ put on my venue and I haven't been targeted yet. I don't know if that is the trigger or just in general they're going to try to force us into fellowships that don't even work for our purpose and that no one knows about. Some of yall can get mad all you want if you don't rp but like it or not it's a big part of the game and a big selling point for SE even more so than raiding. That's why we got 10 different umbrellas and animal crossing farming but no ult till October. >w> So rp is what a lot of us do in the downtime. Attacking venues will just force them onto discord more and underground like the modding and goose communities. Not to mention if they didn't want us posting they wouldn't allow us to put up party finders blank.

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From what I understand, all of the venues that were taken down were taken down in a certain timeframe, and it did not differentiate between venues with 18+ in them or not. I heard a pf got taken down for a guy who had it up saying "Fisherman looking for friendly company while I fish." It doesn't get more innocent than that. I'd like to see his emailed violation saying that he violated 3.3. Anyways, the point is, it seems to be any and all rp content, not just the 18+ ads.

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Originally Posted by Nakarumi

Then this becomes an issue of proper moderation and observation of the child whose parents/caretakers are not monitoring their children's activities. Pornhub is accessible at just a couple clicks of a mouse but it's not the website's fault for a teen that lies and sneaks onto their website.

But there would be a much more comfortable level if there was a designation for more mature content of some sorts as to help childproof it more as we have no way of age verification.

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Granted, I will just summarise by saying irrespective both can have significant, devastating RL implications on all who participated. So it's more about not advertising it to ensure you protect not only yourself but those whom the game was designed for on the minimum age level. That Website is a little more complex, but with ERP it's a direct conversation exchange between 2 individuals both of who are wholly responsible. . But I'd appreciate halting it here since it's quite deep. So I'd appreciate not having any further replies on this specific topic.

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Originally Posted by Aslae

I agree with you, but the problem is this isn't what the GM expressed to me when I was jailed. Like nothing even close to that. So we're extrapolating his intentions from his, again seemingly arbitrary, choice of ToS. Basically, we like we've all been saying in this thread, we need a clear and concise reason this happened, and if it's against ToS, I'd prefer it to be more clearly stated.

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I do agree, the GMs can be quite arbitrary with their interpretation and punishment of the guidelines. So I feel they could be more.. In-line and consistent with it. Not only that but more transparency. Some people don't even know what they're getting punished for.

Yeah, so far the situation of places being hit on adam is very different. But we are starting to get hit. A few venues got hit last week but non of the run sellers or that one girl who offers to sell feet picks got picked out. The pics of the GM's talking to other venue owners I know look pretty much the same as what they're telling yall.
It seems to me they see a potential issue and just wanna make it someone else's problem so they have no liability. They're not making it safer for anyone, just harder for us to communicate.

Jesus Christ.

SE have the worst GMs in the entire MMO market. I've had a creepy stalker follow me and send defamatory /tells to everyone I know for weeks and they didn't do anything. And here they are, warning people with bans for advertising RP venues in PF.

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Originally Posted by Aslae

From what I understand, all of the venues that were taken down were taken down in a certain timeframe, and it did not differentiate between venues with 18+ in them or not. I heard a pf got taken down for a guy who had it up saying "Fisherman looking for friendly company while I fish." It doesn't get more innocent than that. I'd like to see his emailed violation saying that he violated 3.3. Anyways, the point is, it seems to be any and all rp content, not just the 18+ ads.

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i hit the wrong reply button cause I'm dumb apparently.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Granted, I will just summarise by saying irrespective both can have significant, devastating RL implications on all who participated. So it's more about not advertising it to ensure you protect not only yourself but those whom the game was designed for on the minimum age level. That Website is a little more complex, but with ERP it's a direct conversation exchange between 2 individuals both of who are wholly responsible. . But I'd appreciate halting it here since it's quite deep. So I'd appreciate not having any further replies on this specific topic.

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Certainly, although I am glad that the conversation did take place. This kind of feedback goes a long way for the game creators to be conscious of the world they build and refine to make it safer for everyone involved.

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Originally Posted by Nakarumi

Certainly, although I am glad that the conversation did take place. This kind of feedback goes a long way for the game creators to be conscious of the world they build and refine to make it safer for everyone involved.

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It's a worthwhile topic for sure, just belongs behind closed doors I think rather than a public forum. Have a good day and thanks for the discussion :p

In the case of ERP/RP venues I honestly prefer the PF method over having to see people spam more of their huge text block ads for some brothel that all have really cliche names and say the exact same thing (courtesans! Dancing! Live music by Potato Mouse and you obviously KNOW who that is!) over and over.

I don’t RP, but I’ve found a few fun things to do in there when I was bored - namely house mazes, haunted houses around halloween, stuff like that. And the Dev team seems to want to encourage RP to some degree, so if not PF, they should give RPers a functional way to communicate in game. Fellowships could be good for that if they expanded on the features. As it is now, it’s miserable to navigate and too small scale.

It’s the selling clears (and feet pics???) that I’m shocked aren’t taken down.

Personally I think they should consider a "social/rp" tab of sorts in the PF, so those uninterested can avoid it and those that enjoy doing so can use it for advertisments. I know some of you think they are all brothels, but quite a few FCs just do events and such and use the Other tab to advertise as well.

Also these are the problem but yet the run sellers and the "feet pics" person are still around?

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Originally Posted by Infindox

Personally I think they should consider a "social/rp" tab of sorts in the PF, so those uninterested can avoid it and those that enjoy doing so can use it for advertisments. I know some of you think they are all brothels, but quite a few FCs just do events and such and use the Other tab to advertise as well.

Also these are the problem but yet the run sellers and the "feet pics" person are still around?

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I think an rp tab allowing the promotion of sfw events would be a great addition.
also yeah she still at it with those damn feet pics.

The moral grandstanding in this thread is kinda gross but irrelevant. What exactly is the "Other" tab for? Why do clear selling PF's stay up eternally and the first thing you see every single time you open the PF? This is silly and suggesting the "Fellowship Finder" isn't an answer honestly. It's a good idea that needs a lot more expanding if it's going to be an actually useful tool but that's a whole other discussion.

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Originally Posted by Britha

The moral grandstanding in this thread is kinda gross but irrelevant.

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The main person doing the moral grandstanding is also suspiciously defensive towards run sellers.