Mordion Gaol is a bad system

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I have to disagree completely with this.

My SO is active in the art community for this game, and has been the target of absolutely RELENTLESS 'cancel' attempts and harassment, even though she's one of the sweetest, most harmless people (specifically when compared to me haha). They harass her because, even though she's never interacted with any of these people and keeps to herself, they don't like the specific artstyle she uses to depict a certain character.

Canceling is more often than not unhealthy, righteous bullying. Most people who participate in it aren't even the supposedly aggrieved parties; It's just a bunch of sociopaths moving from one bullying target to the next because they just enjoy hurting other people.


And the mordion gaol system is garbage. There are frequent posts of people that have been imprisoned for 3-5 hours who were later told they were put there entirely by mistake.

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Seeing more replies like this is a sigh of relief. If you ever see me on Balmung I will always be willing to listen if you need anyone to vent about this. I am a musician irl and I have often felt the pressures of similar things. Hang in there.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

Well, if it is about that, why are you still posting? I thought you'd made your stance on the matter clear in the first few posts. Hm...

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Dang, you got me. Better delete my whole forum account.

Sometimes a topic can be slightly derailed and still stay within relevancy, but this one has gone too far off the track, so I added that in after posting to point out we should still stay on topic. Anything else to add?

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Weak attempt, try again.



Yeah I'm gonna need more info than that, buddy. No one cares about the chest of a "legal-aged, non-lalafell character" under normal circumstances. Give the whole story.



Someone doing wrong things doesn't mean they can't call out others, so that's a weak defence.



Save the buzzwords.

EDIT: Why are we even talking about this? This thread is about some guy pretending he doesn't know why he got put in a gaol and it's SE's fault he said bad words. I think we should stick to that instead of whining about "cancel culture".

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Going to make it clear once more, I am not trolling, pretending, or trying to do anything negative intentionally. I swear on my life I have no idea what led to the incident of logging into the Mordion Gaol. If in any way I can coming off that way, I am sorry. I am only trying to create a conversation about the current state of the moderation system. I had hoped that by speaking up people would come forward, and that just maybe the higher ups would hear us. I seek not to destroy the system in place, but to encourage the devs to consider reformation of the system that exists.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Anything else to add?

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Only that you're being more than a bit rude and condescending to people, as you have been from this thread's inception, but I'm sure you don't need me pointing this out to you.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Going to make it clear once more, I am not trolling, pretending, or do anything negative intentionally. I swear on my life I have no idea what led to the incident of logging into the Mordion Gaol.

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Then in the future you may want to be more mindful of how you interact with other people. Take this as a learning experience instead of just focusing on how you feel it's unfair. Clearly you made a mistake somewhere along the way, and if they won't tell you what it was, you need to take matters into your own hands and try to prevent it from happening in the future. Be a grown up.

EDIT: It would appear I've reached my post limit for the day despite it being in the early morning, so I'll have to put my next reply here. Sorry for any confusion.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Your statement is hard to disagree with, but I want to add one point to being a grown up. It's called honesty, and communication. It's the key to mutual understanding and successful endeavors. If we were all just a little bit more gracooisz and honest, then maybe things wouldn't turn afowl.

If you look around in life, a great number of problems always stem from lack of transparency be it in business, government, the family, within relationships, friendships, or even with your own self.. a lack of it can cause many problems.

Now that's not to say that we should all be 100% honest. Sometimes it really isn't for the best. I could care less whom it was that may of reported me for whatever they thought I did. They had the right to, and they have the right to privacy. I would want the same after all.

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And part of maintaining relationships like in business, family, etc. is giving people a certain amount of respect. That means not saying offensive things to or around them, even if your friends think it's okay. I say plenty of stuff with my friends that others may find issue with, so I refrain from speaking that way around people I don't know. I think some people in this thread mentioned how they've been conditioned to not swear around their parents, and I'm the same way. It's a switch you have to learn to flip because you don't always know who your audience is.

Unfortunately SE is not required to inform people of what they specifically did to get put in the gaol. All they have to do is tell you you've been warned/suspended/etc. and to not break that rule again. So, because you know you were put there for offensive content/language, in the future you need to think before you hit Enter. There really isn't much more to it than that.

You seem to acknowledge that you feel bad after reacting a certain way sometimes, so if you find yourself lashing out at someone in-game, I would recommend apologizing immediately after. They'd be less likely to report you, and if they did the GM who sees it may have mercy on you because you acknowledged your wrongdoing before you were punished. Something to think about.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Then in the future you may want to be more mindful of how you interact with other people. Take this as a learning experience instead of just focusing on how you feel it's unfair. Clearly you made a mistake somewhere along the way, and if they won't tell you what it was, you need to take matters into your own hands and try to prevent it from happening in the future. Be a grown up.

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Your statement is hard to disagree with, but I want to add one point to being a grown up. It's called honesty, and communication. It's the key to mutual understanding and successful endeavors. If we were all just a little bit more honest, and gracious, then maybe things wouldn't turn afoul.

If you look around in life, a great number of problems stem from lack of transparency. be it in business, government, the family, within relationships, friendships, or even with your own self.. a lack of it can cause problems.

Now that's not to say that we should all be 100% honest. Sometimes it really isn't for the best. I could care less whom it was that may of reported me for whatever they thought I did. They had the right to, and they have the right to privacy. I would want the same after all. I can understand not being told the identity of that person, but it really doesn't hurt to tell me what I did.

If by some off chance I was able to guess who it was, and I harassed them in game, wouldn't that be punishable itself? This is where I think this policy falls flat. That would just lead to more actions taken against me, which would be completely fair.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

EDIT: It would appear I've reached my post limit for the day despite it being in the early morning, so I'll have to put my next reply here. Sorry for any confusion.

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...your what?

There are post limits?

Is this a thing for people who get banned one too many times, or am I just not around on the forums enough to have ever hit this cap?

EDIT: this isn't me being a dick I swear, this is legit the first time I've heard of this forum having post limits

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

...your what?

There are post limits?

Is this a thing for people who get banned one too many times, or am I just not around on the forums enough to have ever hit this cap?

EDIT: this isn't me being a dick I swear, this is legit the first time I've heard of this forum having post limits

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Everyone can only post a certain number of times a day, including replies. It resets at exactly midnight pst.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Don’t break the rules and you don’t go there. Never been there in all the years I played.

I agree it’s a bad system though. I would have just banned you.

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Bad language warrants a ban? Really?

Man final fantasy xiv players are sensitive.

Reminds me of that screenshot where someone won the Byakko mount, typed "F*** Yeah!" and was reported and banned.

Offensive content/language bans are the most ridiculous of bans, one of my one friends got banned for saying *bullshit* once, all it takes is one snowflake to ruin your week, the language filter will not protect you either.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

...your what?

There are post limits?

Is this a thing for people who get banned one too many times, or am I just not around on the forums enough to have ever hit this cap?

EDIT: this isn't me being a dick I swear, this is legit the first time I've heard of this forum having post limits

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I think everyone gets about 15? 20? or so posts they can make per day.
It's not about if you've been banned before or what, it's to help control traffic on the site as well as prevent any individuals from dominating conversations so everyone had a chance to talk.
I semi-regularly hit it with how active some of these threads get.

Yes it is a broken system. I've had a friend get put in there and he had to wait for 2 hours for a GM to tell him " hey we are banning you for a week" when he asked why they refused to tell him anything. They then banned him for another week for closing the game after since closing the game was disrespectful to the GM who made him wait for 2 hours only to give him no info. Just send a damn email and don't waste peoples time

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

appreciate it, but I was arguing a strawman to the wrong person lmao

I got baited by some of the most notorious personalities on the forums and then decided to extrapolate their bad behaviour onto others. Not quite ace detective work on my end, I'm afraid.

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Yes because everyone who disagrees with you is a troll or a notorious personality :). You just have some bad opinions is all.

Yeah I got annoyed at a gang of trolling furries and used some foul language. Long story short they mass reported me and I got banned. But my ban was artificially lengthened by nearly 2 days because they have to do the whole mordion gaol rigmarole and they took forever to get in touch with me after they stuck me in there.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Yes because everyone who disagrees with you is a troll or a notorious personality :). You just have some bad opinions is all.

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Well, no, not everyone. I wouldn't dare claim that; I even said I accidentally extrapolated your behaviour onto other people.

Don't worry, I wouldn't give the special place you hold in my heart up for anyone.

EDIT: Also,

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I think everyone gets about 15? 20? or so posts they can make per day.
It's not about if you've been banned before or what, it's to help control traffic on the site as well as prevent any individuals from dominating conversations so everyone had a chance to talk.
I semi-regularly hit it with how active some of these threads get.

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Whoa. That's a pretty low cap, all things considered.

I'm shocked I haven't hit that yet myself.

Dumb system for a super soft community to abuse. That’s what it is and if you defend that then you’re part of the reason the remake of the rules happened a few years back making it nearly impossible to know what will and won’t get you jailed.
Long story short, don’t talk in game...just use discord.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'll admit my first reaction was the usual "don't say offensive things if you don't want to be banned" (which is true, be a nice person and you're far less likely to get in trouble) but the system is flawed. Witch hunts should be immediate perma-bans and cracked down on. Doesn't their updated ToS even allow them to ban based on 3rd party activity in bad cases? Similar to how parsers aren't allowed incase of harassment, rather than directly dealing with that harassment if it happens with a zero-tolerance policy.

Playing safe results in this strange system that imprisons players for hours, sometimes accidentally, with no idea what they did. It's not ideal and the only reason the system is used is to be cheap on staff resources dealing with any further cases of ToS breach.



Probably what happened then, you had a rough run and snapped at someone and it didn't register as offensive because you were annoyed. I'm only saying that incase it helps you figure out what got you the ban. Any particularly rough PF runs?

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Not that I can think of. I didn't even really do content that day. I think I just sat in the world and mined all day.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Not that I can think of. I didn't even really do content that day. I think I just sat in the world and mined all day.

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Just remember it might not have been for something you did THAT DAY. Anytime in the past week, could be possible. Anything that you said that COULD HAVE been perceived as offensive, even if you don't personally perceive it as offensive, could've been reported within the week before your internment at the Gaol. Bear in mind, like others have stated, there's a huge reason they don't tell you exactly what you've done, because while you PERSONALLY may not attempt to hunt down the person who reported you and harass them, others WILL. That's not even a question, if let's say I was reported for poor language and they told me "It was because you said "eat dirt you massive butt pimple""... well now I know who reported me. Now I know who to yell at and harass. Now I know who to get my friends to harass. (this is PURELY. HYPOTHETICAL.)

Mordion Gaol works as intended, but just like every disciplinary system, people WILL fall through the cracks. Just know that what you said wasn't enough to indicate a need for a suspension, just someone letting you know "hey, watch what you say." but in person.

I dunno if its different across the pond, but EU I spend a lot of time "compelling playstyles" and generally swearing about the shop in all content and i can say i havent been gaoled once, are people just super trigger happy with reports over there lol.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I dunno if its different across the pond, but EU I spend a lot of time "compelling playstyles" and generally swearing about the shop in all content and i can say i havent been gaoled once, are people just super trigger happy with reports over there lol.

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I've been playing for 6 years and I've never gotten gaoled a single time despite swearing like a sailor. The only thing I don't do is harass people with said language. :rolleyes:

I sincerely doubt it's people being report happy, and rather people actually doing things worthy of a report.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

Well, no, not everyone. I wouldn't dare claim that; I even said I accidentally extrapolated your behaviour onto other people.

Don't worry, I wouldn't give the special place you hold in my heart up for anyone.

I'm shocked I haven't hit that yet myself.

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There you go again with the condescension and casual sexism.

Here’s the facts, you had an opinion. 5 people disagreed with you. You namedropped them all and labelled them trolls or degenerates.

Who’s really the troll in that situation? Appears to be you really, none of us mentioned you. Stop holding yourself to a higher standard, you’re just another person on a forum.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

Bad language warrants a ban? Really?

Man final fantasy xiv players are sensitive.

Reminds me of that screenshot where someone won the Byakko mount, typed "F*** Yeah!" and was reported and banned.

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It’s against the terms of service though.

The game has an age rating. This is not the game for you to be dropping F bombs in, they made that clear. You can do that stuff in WoW but not here.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

It’s against the terms of service though.

The game has an age rating. This is not the game for you to be dropping F bombs in, they made that clear. You can do that stuff in WoW but not here.

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Normally disagree with you on a lot of stuff (not for the sake of disagreement, mind you, just because I think we view a lot of the world in fundamentally different ways) but I agree with this. The ToS is very, VERY clear when they need it to be, and purposely vague when they need to act with discretion.

It's a pretty good system, because I haven't seen offensive language & over-the-top toxic behavior in-game since... I honestly cannot remember when.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

It's a pretty good system, because I haven't seen offensive language & over-the-top toxic behavior in-game since... I honestly cannot remember when.

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You sweet summer child. Come to Balmung.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Here’s the facts, you had an opinion. 5 people disagreed with you. You namedropped them all and labelled them trolls or degenerates.

Who’s really the troll in that situation? Appears to be you really, none of us mentioned you. Stop holding yourself to a higher standard, you’re just another person on a forum.

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Oh man, that does sound bad when you strip out the context...

Only, hey, let's look at it from another angle, yeah?

I was arguing to Valkyrie Lenneth that there were witch hunts going on and that people weren't actually discussing the merits of the gaol system. They said "I gave the merits." and I respond with "Sure" because, yeah, they did. But also, there are other people that didn't; of which I singled out four, of which you were a part of. Once I'd done that though, I quickly realised "Wait a minute... Ammokkx, you dip, take a look at who you're quoting here" because when you've got an all-star lineup like Vickii, Doozer and Reap00 the gears start turning in my head. There's other people in the thread too, like Jijifli and MariaArvana, who I'd describe as "not agreeing with me" who nevertheless remained civil and actually approached the topic calmly and with some tact. I'd even say Valkyrie's part of that group. Which is why I, once again, corrected myself, and say that I shouldn't project how you act onto these otherwise pretty cool fellows.

Let's not pretend like you're not overly hostile to people, Vic. I still remember when you created a thread about wanting to keep Hempen cloth restrictions, said "this is a positive space only reserved for those who are in favor of the idea" and then decided to go completely ballistic on everyone who came in and disagreed anyway. It was a real masterclass in civility, and honestly, I don't think you're in much of a position to tell me you're not always causing trouble in every thread you post in.

If everyone who disagreed with me was a troll, I wouldn't have bothered to correct myself and actually single out the individuals (which are three, not five as you're claiming) who are most notorious from the pile. I don't think there's much point to arguing you on anything when you've already proven yourself to be willing to lie to win forum arguments on the internet (remember your economics degree, Vic?)

It's real easy to spin a narrative, harder is to actually prove it.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

It’s against the terms of service though.

The game has an age rating. This is not the game for you to be dropping F bombs in, they made that clear. You can do that stuff in WoW but not here.

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F*** yeah is not dropping the F bomb, unless you (not you specifically) are overly sensitive. ToS or not, such cases need to be seen in context and not in a secluded way like "Oh look, two words. One is the F word. Time to ban". I'm sure you know this, but in this context the evil, evil F word was not an insult to the other players for not getting the mount, but as an, admittedly, strong expression of exhilaration. Sure there are other ways to say it, but eh... the heat of moment and all that. No rocket science.

Titan goal is quite scary I won't lie.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I shouldn't have had to wait for five hours to get released, with no indication that the Gaol is where I am I at. Googling about the place gave me more information than Square Enix did. There was no prompt that I had been jailed, no explanation as to why, and no indication that a GM would come help me.
I am disappointed. My experience felt incredibly unethical.

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I agree that being sent there with no information about anything is not good. It wouldn't be difficult for SE to create an automated system message that informs you of the name of the location and its purpose. Or a pop-up to make it abundantly clear.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Would a cop be allowed to arrest you and not tell you why you're being arrested? Of course not, so why isn't Square Enix transparent about WHY? How can I improve my behavior and learn about what I did wrong, and how to avoid strikes against my account, if I never even have clear answers?

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Some have said that SE are intentionally vague so that you can't hunt down the player who probably reported you. While I understand the merits of this, I think it's more important that it's clear what the offence was so that the player knows exactly what sort of behaviour they must avoid.

Language barriers are a thing. So many times I encountered people, online and offline, who didn't realise that what they had said in english was offensive. It would really suck if you got reported for unintentional misuse of your second language and you don't have much hope of figuring out on your own where you went wrong. We don't have dedicated language servers so this sort of friction is far more likely to happen than in some other games that have specific language servers.

Cultural differences can also cause issues. What may be a mild offense at most to you could be an enormous insult for someone else. Again without specific language servers the chances of encountering a culture clash is higher than in games with specific language servers.

I know many say "but most people can figure out when they crossed the line so they don't need to be told" but if that's the case then what's the point in keeping the details vague if players can already figure out on their own who reported them?

I don't really care what OP did or said, because that's not the point. The point is that it's not always clear to the offender that what they did was wrong, and it's hard to correct your behaviour if you have to guess.

I haven't seen this brought up.... and I know I'm stereotyping here but since you're on Balmung I have to say that "language" doesn't just mean you were using swears or something like that. If you were engaged in ERP in a location or using a type of chat, "say" chat for example, where others could read it who didn't consent to being a part of your role play scenario, they could report you for vulgar language.

I would also just in general say when it comes to language used and topics discussed, that there's a bit of a monkey house effect. If you've been in that environment for long enough, you don't even notice it, but if you're stepping in for the first time, you can DEFINITELY smell those monkeys. So even if you're unaware that you've said something that would be considered inappropriate, there's aways a chance you've been so immersed in that environment that what seems normal doesn't come across as having crossed the line to the casual observer.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I haven't seen this brought up.... and I know I'm stereotyping here but since you're on Balmung I have to say that "language" doesn't just mean you were using swears or something like that. If you were engaged in ERP in a location or using a type of chat, "say" chat for example, where others could read it who didn't consent to being a part of your role play scenario, they could report you for vulgar language.

I would also just in general say when it comes to language used and topics discussed, that there's a bit of a monkey house effect. If you've been in that environment for long enough, you don't even notice it, but if you're stepping in for the first time, you can DEFINITELY smell those monkeys. So even if you're unaware that you've said something that would be considered inappropriate, there's aways a chance you've been so immersed in that environment that what seems normal doesn't come across as having crossed the line to the casual observer.

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That's honestly one of my thoughts. While I do not believe in ERPing in public, and believe that it should always be in private where it is consensual.

There is still a chance that I said something I'd otherwise be unaware of crossing the line on. Uldah on Balmung is where I often hang out, and it's very easy to get too used to the naughty Norm that it is in shout chat. That's another reason why I wish they told me. I have absolutely no idea what I may of done that someone was offended by. I feel really bad that I may have made someone upset.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

That's honestly one of my thoughts. While I do not believe in ERPing in public, and believe that it should always be in private where it is consensual.

There is still a chance that I said something I'd otherwise be unaware of crossing the line on. Uldah on Balmung is where I often hang out, and it's very easy to get too used to the naughty Norm that it is in shout chat. That's another reason why I wish they told me. I have absolutely no idea what I may of done that someone was offended by. I feel really bad that I may have made someone upset.

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I'm wanting to give you a big old hug. Try to not get so in your head about this; from other things you've said here, it sounds like you've got more important things to concern yourself with. If indeed you did do something, perhaps the upset person has read this and forgives you. I know I would. Keep your chin up. What happened sucks, yes, but it's had its time, you did the time! Just bear in mind that thing Shibi said earlier in the thread (good advice for anyone who wants it) - if you're talking in a public space, act like it's your grandma you're talking to - covers swears and ERP, innuendo, etc. So long as your gran subscribes to Victorian era etiquette codes and she's not Catherine Tate's "Nan" character, that is. :)

With respect to improving the gaol system, I don't know there's much SE can or will do. I would simply ask them to take on board the negative effect the experience may have on the prisoner and ask them to be as mindful of that as much as I would ask the prisoner to mindful of their own behaviour in future. I would remind all parties you're still dealing with real live humans here, even if they're represented as pixels, and not to lose sight of that.

Damn I just learned about this and it sounds like such a great way to deal with people who break the rules, especially toxic people since it isnt a mere ban, you are literally send to prison xD
Though I swear I ve heard of a similar system in another game, was it lineage 2 that did the same thing?

Coming from WoW this is something that is very very much needed in online communities because if you let toxic or hateful speech free you see it more and more everywhere and people know reporting does nothing so they dont even bother, see WoW's trade chat, people can say the most vile, hateful and act extremely toxic and unless there's an entire guild of people reporting them nothing happens.

I am very happy to hear that SE is taking a strong stance against toxicity unlike most western companies who allow toxic people to continue because they cant be bothered to pay people to enforce their community "policy", probably why FF14 is known for having one of the better communities in an mmo out there, it is because SE actively enforces the ToS.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

That's honestly one of my thoughts. While I do not believe in ERPing in public, and believe that it should always be in private where it is consensual.

There is still a chance that I said something I'd otherwise be unaware of crossing the line on. Uldah on Balmung is where I often hang out, and it's very easy to get too used to the naughty Norm that it is in shout chat. That's another reason why I wish they told me. I have absolutely no idea what I may of done that someone was offended by. I feel really bad that I may have made someone upset.

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LOL there isn't enough room in that jail to hold everyone for offensive ERP chat in Ul Dah on Balmung. I often go there to be entertained while waiting on a duty to pop.

They should be clear with why they are punishing someone. Cause as others have said what one finds offense another may not. We do not live in a world of black and white many of us have differing values and despite what others may like to say or feel we really do not have a normative standard of ethics or morals outside of the rules that bind us, but when the rules are subjective in nature it leads to such issues cause the standards one follows may not be the same another follows.

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Originally Posted by spf1200

Yes it is a broken system. I've had a friend get put in there and he had to wait for 2 hours for a GM to tell him " hey we are banning you for a week" when he asked why they refused to tell him anything. They then banned him for another week for closing the game after since closing the game was disrespectful to the GM who made him wait for 2 hours only to give him no info. Just send a damn email and don't waste peoples time

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No one forced you to read this topic or post here. It's not the TC's fault you "wasted your time".

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

No one forced you to read this topic or post here. It's not the TC's fault you "wasted your time".

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Did... did you even read their entire post?

I honestly wouldn't really care about how transparent the GMs are when it comes to telling offenders about what they did wrong if it wasn't also being combined with an extremely lopsided "three strikes and you're out" punishment system that ensures you'll get permabanned after three actionable offenses at most regardless of how minor/major they actually were (The only difference that actually makes is how long of a temporary ban you get).

It's essential that people know exactly what they did wrong so they can hopefully never repeat it again if their accounts are on the line.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

You're missing the point. I don't know why at all. That description is entirely subjective when we live in a world with so many different viewpoints on what constitutes being offensive.

My mother for instance constantly insists that "hell" is a swear word, even though it's mild. She's also very religious.

So again considering different sensitivity levels, how am I supposed to know if they don't specify. Literally ANYTHING can be taken as offensive these days. Cancel culture is incredibly rampant, and being vague doesn't help. I do not know what I did to get me in trouble. I have absolutely no idea, so I ask that you please stop acting like I do know.

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It's simple really. Don't say anything you "Think" would be offensive. Don't even crack jokes or anything unless you know them. People these days are a little snow-flakish.

On a side note - If you have to explain the different viewpoints on what's offensive and not depending on the person in your reply, then you do "Know" or have a clear clue on what you said or did that constitutes it being "Offensive" but you keep beating around the bush or you are just very dull.

The only way to truly look into this of course would be screen shots. Which most likely you don't have.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

No one forced you to read this topic or post here. It's not the TC's fault you "wasted your time".

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Either you are badly trolling or your reading comphrehension is lacking. The "don't waste people time" was NOT refering to this topic or the TC.