I appear to have already missed the boat on bozja

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Yes it does a bit.. but I do feel the sense of progression is there. I guess it just comes with being more experienced with the zone but I definetly felt more secure at 15 than at 5.

Lost actions still don’t really mean that much to me, I have an aoe heal which is nice, and I took Death actually, it’s quite fun. As to the other stuff I barely use it.

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Same. Lost actions are only useful if you intend to do more Bozja. They're not an interesting thing to collect on their own because they're useless everywhere else.

I had a choice between Bozja or the Feast PvP rewards and the latter is limited time, so I chose that fully accepting I'd probably never get to do Bozja lol. Luckily the resistance weapons are pretty pants.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Same. Lost actions are only useful if you intend to do more Bozja. They're not an interesting thing to collect on their own because they're useless everywhere else.

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And we are going to be doing more Bozja in a new raid (5.4) and a new area (5.5). In any case, lost actions make all the difference (even basic ones) and are the main point of the zone. Even Yoshida requested players to use them during a live letter.

I'm guessing that something similar will happen to the new normal mode raid if its difficulty turn out to be the same as Castrum (having DPS checks). Once the players that care are done failed runs will be the norm.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

And we are going to be doing more Bozja in a new raid (5.4) and a new area (5.5). In any case, lost actions make all the difference (even basic ones) and are the main point of the zone. Even Yoshida requested players to use them during a live letter.

I'm guessing that something similar will happen to the new normal mode raid if its difficulty turn out to be the same as Castrum (having DPS checks). Once the players that care are done failed runs will be the norm.

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I have a lot of stock and I’m not adverse to using them or even needing them. But right now you can get away without them. They are useful though! Having an aoe heal on MCH is amazing in the CEs, I barely ever die. And death has a decent success rates on fates.

I should really use the pots more they are good stats but yes the content right now doesn’t need it.

Basically lost actions are actually cool and you’re not living your best life if you refuse to use them entirely, but they’re wholly unnecessary at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

And we are going to be doing more Bozja in a new raid (5.4) and a new area (5.5). In any case, lost actions make all the difference (even basic ones) and are the main point of the zone. Even Yoshida requested players to use them during a live letter.

I'm guessing that something similar will happen to the new normal mode raid if its difficulty turn out to be the same as Castrum (having DPS checks). Once the players that care are done failed runs will be the norm.

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Oh and I’m REALLLLY looking forward to the new zone.

Something a lot of comments seem to miss is that Bozja is actually really cool when you immerse yourself in it, from a lore/story point of view. I’m hoping we get some final battles with these characters from the FATES. Clarricie and her pets etc...

Think the big problem with Bazja is that there isn't enough content in the zone to keep it running as well. I mean each zone does have a certain life span to them, but Bazja was really short compared to Eureka Anemos going into Pagos. I think they had to split resources to do the Ishgard restoration and with COVID causing them to have to slow down on production, the whole system they had rolling for a while just sort of imploded here. I don't really blame them for any of the issues we are seeing and it is totally fine to just zone out of the game for a while.

I'm just a little grumbly because I got into savage raiding to help fill that time I'd normally be doing this kind of content, and boy once you do savage and see how quickly you can get geared compared to doing the tomestones... it is like tomestone gear doesn't even matter anymore outside of a few pieces and maybe the weapon. I'm pretty slow at getting through due to an issue with getting a fresh group for E10S.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Think the big problem with Bazja is that there isn't enough content in the zone to keep it running as well. I mean each zone does have a certain life span to them, but Bazja was really short compared to Eureka Anemos going into Pagos. I think they had to split resources to do the Ishgard restoration and with COVID causing them to have to slow down on production, the whole system they had rolling for a while just sort of imploded here. I don't really blame them for any of the issues we are seeing and it is totally fine to just zone out of the game for a while.

I'm just a little grumbly because I got into savage raiding to help fill that time I'd normally be doing this kind of content, and boy once you do savage and see how quickly you can get geared compared to doing the tomestones... it is like tomestone gear doesn't even matter anymore outside of a few pieces and maybe the weapon. I'm pretty slow at getting through due to an issue with getting a fresh group for E10S.

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Tomestone gear is mostly for people who don’t raid and for filling gaps during progression. Your BIS will be mostly savage gear, with a few tomestone pieces. And your best weapon will be the finished relic.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Yea, I honestly don't get why MMO's do this. If you're going to create content like this you NEED failsafes in place for when participation declines. Create incentives to keep running this forever like with MSQ; make it scale down to the number of participants; add AI to fill the gaps when you can't get enough people together; something...

Instead they seem to have done the opposite. Not only is there no incentive to keep running it; you're actually punished for doing it by way of losing mettle.

I really hope the relic isn't tied to completion of this poorly thought out content.

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Not to mention a benefit of previous relics was to infuse interest in older content. And they were designed in such a way that you can still do ARR or HW relics today.

This will be two expansions now where they tied the relic to a zone with a limited shelf life where you have to take on a semi-raider mentality to take part for a weapon that is supposed to be the alternative to raiding.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Not to mention a benefit of previous relics was to infuse interest in older content. And they were designed in such a way that you can still do ARR or HW relics today.

This will be two expansions now where they tied the relic to a zone with a limited shelf life where you have to take on a semi-raider mentality to take part for a weapon that is supposed to be the alternative to raiding.

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Shadowbringers' relic isn't tied to Bozja outside of a few introduction quests in Gangos, which are story related. Gotta clear the Ivalice raids though, but that's not much of an issue. It can be done in Bozja, but is largely designed to be completed outside of it so far.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Shadowbringers' relic isn't tied to Bozja outside of a few introduction quests in Gangos, which are story related. Gotta clear the Ivalice raids though, but that's not much of an issue. It can be done in Bozja, but is largely designed to be completed outside of it so far.

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Other comments have indicated a live letter said the continuing relic steps may be tied to completing the story in Bozja.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Other comments have indicated a live letter said the continuing relic steps may be tied to completing the story in Bozja.

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There’s something about you having to complete the new raid in 5.45 I’m pretty sure. We don’t know this is tied to story but it’s safe to assume it is.

I think it’s most likely you’ll need to ‘complete’ the bozja story and unlock the instances, but they’re keeping it so you don’t need to ‘grind’ bozja beyond getting minimal rank to do instances.

They never said people didn’t have to do Bozja for any of it, they were just talking about one step when they said that.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

There’s something about you having to complete the new raid in 5.45 I’m pretty sure. We don’t know this is tied to story but it’s safe to assume it is.

I think it’s most likely you’ll need to ‘complete’ the bozja story and unlock the instances, but they’re keeping it so you don’t need to ‘grind’ bozja beyond getting minimal rank to do instances.

They never said people didn’t have to do Bozja for any of it, they were just talking about one step when they said that.

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One of the biggest complaints about Eureka was that it was the only way to get the "relicweapon" which before that always was done by grinding old content. If I remember it correctly they did point out that this would be different with Bozja. So are people wrong to assume that it means that you can do it completely without Bozja? If they hint at there being more than one path to get there it just does not fit that suddenly the next steps still needs Bozja...

Also lets not say that its only completing the story...doing that is a huge part of bozja alone..which means quite some hours of grind in it. Thats far from giving us a choice...the other path only is truly there if you want to do more than one relic or if you still need some more items after you completed one bozja region. I doubt that most people would do more than one relic after all its the casual version of a great weapon. So for those that truly only want one they are still forced to do the content that was said to be optional...

It would be like saying: The stormblood weapon has more than one path BUT you still need to do all eureka maps, its story and BA to keep doing the other paths..

As someone that did not like all of the grind that the ARR and HW relics provided I still would have chosen them over these two...but since they suddenly want to tell deeper stories even in those questlines it kinda has to connect to each other thus people are forced to do it one after the other...which is a shame because content like that often has a limited time where a lot of people do it...if BA and now castrum did not exist it might be more doable because you could slowly grind towards your weapon solo but with those two instances you are always forced to get help from others...

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Originally Posted by Vickii

There’s something about you having to complete the new raid in 5.45 I’m pretty sure. We don’t know this is tied to story but it’s safe to assume it is.

I think it’s most likely you’ll need to ‘complete’ the bozja story and unlock the instances, but they’re keeping it so you don’t need to ‘grind’ bozja beyond getting minimal rank to do instances.

They never said people didn’t have to do Bozja for any of it, they were just talking about one step when they said that.

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If I were them, I'd make doing the Castrums the faster method for getting the weapon upgrades. It keeps them being run and basically prevents the problem we're having now with nobody running the current Castrum.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If I were them, I'd make doing the Castrums the faster method for getting the weapon upgrades. It keeps them being run and basically prevents the problem we're having now with nobody running the current Castrum.

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Castrum's problem is linked to the level of coordination one needs to run it. Most community events like fate trains, hunt trains, map runs, and to some extent the big raids all require a very minimal amount of team coordination to accomplish. To breach the front gates of Castrum and optimize rewards, the entire group needs to actually stop and think about how they do the floors.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Castrum's problem is linked to the level of coordination one needs to run it. Most community events like fate trains, hunt trains, map runs, and to some extent the big raids all require a very minimal amount of team coordination to accomplish. To breach the front gates of Castrum and optimize rewards, the entire group needs to actually stop and think about how they do the floors.

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Castrum takes minimum coordination as well.

First boss: Check to see if there's about even amounts of people up top and bottom, then start the fight.
During "add boss": Check to see which party is going to which hallway, diagonals first. Clear your diagonal? Immediately go to the central lane of your side to clear that
Third boss: Make a party of people who have done top or who know the boss's mechanics, send them up top when the mechanic comes while everybody else just keeps fighting the main boss.

That's barely any effort. The entire place is an absolute joke to coordinate in, and I'm tired of people acting like the bare minimum of conversation is massive coordination.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

...but since they suddenly want to tell deeper stories even in those questlines...

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All the Bozja cutscenes are on YouTube. If - like myself and many others, you find the story the ONLY reason you would ever, ever, EVER consider setting foot in another Eureka - watching the story on YouTube is a much better option.

Shame that it's come to that; I haven't felt the need to do so since coil in 2.x.

Will regret not getting the Siege Liege title which requires 50 completed runs of Castrum Lacus Litore. Got perhaps half of that before the patch hit. It would be great if it carried across to the next zone whenever it is released.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Castrum takes minimum coordination as well.

First boss: Check to see if there's about even amounts of people up top and bottom, then start the fight.
During "add boss": Check to see which party is going to which hallway, diagonals first. Clear your diagonal? Immediately go to the central lane of your side to clear that
Third boss: Make a party of people who have done top or who know the boss's mechanics, send them up top when the mechanic comes while everybody else just keeps fighting the main boss.

That's barely any effort. The entire place is an absolute joke to coordinate in, and I'm tired of people acting like the bare minimum of conversation is massive coordination.

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Not true. I've been in attempts with even splits, and much of the time one side will do incredibly more damage than the other, or players will keep dying to things over and over - it's actually baffling. Anything that requires even minimum coordination is a huge barrier of entry for many players of this game, and I am not being hyperbolic.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Not true. I've been in attempts with even splits, and much of the time one side will do incredibly more damage than the other, or players will keep dying to things over and over - it's actually baffling. Anything that requires even minimum coordination is a huge barrier of entry for many players of this game, and I am not being hyperbolic.

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Pretty much my experience almost every time I enter Castrum. The first boss breaks just about every pug, even if there is an effort to split evenly on the top and bottom. Some simply don't know how mechanics works, apparently. That requires practice though. Not really much of an excuse for mechanics that have been shown time and again, however.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Not true. I've been in attempts with even splits, and much of the time one side will do incredibly more damage than the other, or players will keep dying to things over and over - it's actually baffling. Anything that requires even minimum coordination is a huge barrier of entry for many players of this game, and I am not being hyperbolic.

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It's not coordination but enrage timers. As always bothering with lost actions helps a lot but most don't care.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

It's not coordination but enrage timers. As always bothering with lost actions helps a lot but most don't care.

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Not surprising since it's not difficult to meet the requirements to enter Castrum and still not have a lot of good lost actions due the combination of tedious RNgrind required to get useful ones + the fact they're expendable. Most people don't have patience for that level of micromanagement or grind. And seeing as outside Bozja the devs keep trying to streamline everything, people shouldn't expect the average player to bother. The gap between content of this caliber and the experience you get from non-savage content in the "normal" game has only gotten larger.
They really should have thought the difficulty progression more thorough to better prepare players for optional pve content.

All the basic stuff is easy to farm (essence, steel/spell, bravery, protect and shell), in particular if you are in a party (fragments drop for everyone no matter how far away) and bother to ask around for help.

I also think that optional content is the perfect place for this kind of things.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Not surprising since it's not difficult to meet the requirements to enter Castrum and still not have a lot of good lost actions due the combination of tedious RNgrind required to get useful ones + the fact they're expendable. Most people don't have patience for that level of micromanagement or grind. And seeing as outside Bozja the devs keep trying to streamline everything, people shouldn't expect the average player to bother. The gap between content of this caliber and the experience you get from non-savage content in the "normal" game has only gotten larger.
They really should have thought the difficulty progression more thorough to better prepare players for optional pve content.

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Just to offer some personal insight... I /hate/ spending actions and items that are expendable and are not trivial to restock ('very' trivial). Like some games offer you these cool one off items and I just can't bring myself to use them lol. I'd rather collect the item than make some event slightly or even quite a bit easier when I know I can do without it (naturally I wont purposefully fail anything at such a preference, but if I know I can do without expending something I will.. not expend it.. I will take the extra challenge instead).

Like in Planescape Numenera they had all this excited talk of cool powerful one off artifacts, sure sure lore whatever- the item gets into my inventory and then I'm like... " . . . my precious . . . " and will never use it to the point that it'll break (especially since you don't need to in order to do well in that game).

Even in FFXV with not too hard to get magic I was still like EEEEEWWWGUAHHA BLEH. Nooo... I also loathed the system in FFVIII.

I hope FFXIV can stop with such a concept and proceed into something else perhaps like FFVII / FFIX , etc sort of ability acquisition, or whatever else. But man I just really don't like waiving goodbye to stuff like that lol (I'll do it if I have to, but it's not bringing me joy).

Personal insight because I'm not suggesting someone has to hate doing that, each person may have a different bias of what's fun; although, I could say for certain I know I'm not alone since I've seen such thoughts echoed before - so to me that sort of system will greatly increase the chance I use none of it (unless required, I'll use fancy items over losing of course but I'd honestly had wished they were cooldowns even if they were like "4 day cooldown" lol).

So, I just went into a Castrum, 44/48, and because of people couldn't read chat, pulled early, we wiped twice, and the run failed. First boss. I don't think I've seen anything so sad when it comes to this game. I was laughing quite a bit about this. Also, someone from the forums just happened to witness this catastrophe, in the same party as me!

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Just to offer some personal insight... I /hate/ spending actions and items that are expendable and are not trivial to restock ('very' trivial). Like some games offer you these cool one off items and I just can't bring myself to use them lol. I'd rather collect the item than make some event slightly or even quite a bit easier when I know I can do without it (naturally I wont purposefully fail anything at such a preference, but if I know I can do without expending something I will.. not expend it.. I will take the extra challenge instead).

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Absolutely. If things are expendable and I either don't know where to stock up or it isn't easy (or a clear process) to get more, I will not use the item because I'm worried I'll need it later.

I tend to finish RPGs with a bag full of valuable items that would have made battles easier.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

So, I just went into a Castrum, 44/48, and because of people couldn't read chat, pulled early, we wiped twice, and the run failed. First boss. I don't think I've seen anything so sad when it comes to this game. I was laughing quite a bit about this. Also, someone from the forums just happened to witness this catastrophe, in the same party as me!

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My experience recently (probably wasn’t at launch) is that a large party is what you think you want but it’s not. Every single time I’ve been in with more than 30 someone either pulls early or there’s a huge disparity between the people upstairs and downstairs.

Mid 20’s seems to have the most success, barring organised groups.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

My experience recently (probably wasn’t at launch) is that a large party is what you think you want but it’s not. Every single time I’ve been in with more than 30 someone either pulls early or there’s a huge disparity between the people upstairs and downstairs.

Mid 20’s seems to have the most success, barring organised groups.

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Also I think the more players there are the more people are thinking it’s a done deal and they’re going to faceroll it like they do every dungeon. And that’s not really the case.

I don't know what the current state of it is, but certainly at the height of people running it, the Japanese teams were very organised with a macro and designated groups to rescue the prisoners. So it could be another one of those things where the dev team isn't seeing the messiness of the other servers.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

My experience recently (probably wasn’t at launch) is that a large party is what you think you want but it’s not. Every single time I’ve been in with more than 30 someone either pulls early or there’s a huge disparity between the people upstairs and downstairs.

Mid 20’s seems to have the most success, barring organised groups.

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If we could have got past the first boss, it probably would have been a done deal, but somebody pulled early, before we had time to organize. When I went up top after the first (long wipe), with the fellow forum member, the DPS seemed pretty equivalent - and would have been a definite clear. The early pull destroyed that run. First time I've actually ever seen that happen. 2/3 of the clears I've had were full or near full, I couldn't believe what was at display. If that run had been mid 20's, I'm sure we would have cleared it. There just was no time to properly organize at the start. We actually timed out.

From YoshiP's latest interview

Gamer Escape: With the inclusion of the Bozjan Southern Front, we got access to Castrum Lacus Litore. The Save the Queen story requires players to complete the assault on the Castrum in order to move forward with the questline, however some players have stated that they’re finding it difficult to find instances of the area where there are enough people willing to do the content. Do you have any plans to address this?


Naoki Yoshida: "Currently, with the release of Patch 5.4, many players are tackling the new content and running the Savage tiers of Eden’s Promise. I am aware that there are not as many people running Castrum Lacus Litore as players might hope for.

With Patch 5.45, we will be implementing Delubrum Reginae and its higher-difficulty Savage version, so we’re anticipating this will bring more people to the Bozjan Southern Front to address the situation.

We also plan to have system updates to this content on top of adjusting the rewards to match these changes, so we appreciate your patience in the meantime as we work to adjust things."

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Originally Posted by technole

From YoshiP's latest interview

Gamer Escape: With the inclusion of the Bozjan Southern Front, we got access to Castrum Lacus Litore. The Save the Queen story requires players to complete the assault on the Castrum in order to move forward with the questline, however some players have stated that they’re finding it difficult to find instances of the area where there are enough people willing to do the content. Do you have any plans to address this?


Naoki Yoshida: "Currently, with the release of Patch 5.4, many players are tackling the new content and running the Savage tiers of Eden’s Promise. I am aware that there are not as many people running Castrum Lacus Litore as players might hope for.

With Patch 5.45, we will be implementing Delubrum Reginae and its higher-difficulty Savage version, so we’re anticipating this will bring more people to the Bozjan Southern Front to address the situation.

We also plan to have system updates to this content on top of adjusting the rewards to match these changes, so we appreciate your patience in the meantime as we work to adjust things."

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I read this and system updates seems interesting

Perhaps auto scaling to number of players?

I got two clears yesterday one on Crystal DC and one on Aether DC. They were both with Discord. I prefer not to have to use it but have in the past with BA. I had no trouble getting groups the same day I joined. The prospect of camping the zone and hoping for a clear wasn't something I willing to do. Pretty depressing they haven't addressed the issue yet and having to wait for 4.5 to do so isn't what should have been the case.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I got two clears yesterday one on Crystal DC and one on Aether DC. They were both with Discord. I prefer not to have to use it but have in the past with BA. I had no trouble getting groups the same day I joined.

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Really don't want Discord to become the only way to get a group. For me, not including raiding and PotD/HoH which is meant for chatting, it's a failure of content if you MUST use an outside program just to get a chance to do something. It's 100% possible to pug the area, people just don't want to do it because there's no reallgood reward except MAYBE if you want the Siege Liege title.

Twitter XIV account just tweeted that we are getting both BLU and Bozja updates next Tuesday, so we'll see if that brings more people in hoping to get it done before the patch drops.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

Really don't want Discord to become the only way to get a group. For me, not including raiding and PotD/HoH which is meant for chatting, it's a failure of content if you MUST use an outside program just to get a chance to do something. It's 100% possible to pug the area, people just don't want to do it because there's no reallgood reward except MAYBE if you want the Siege Liege title.

Twitter XIV account just tweeted that we are getting both BLU and Bozja updates next Tuesday, so we'll see if that brings more people in hoping to get it done before the patch drops.

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I think LATELY people have been trying to get in there and get some clears. I saw one last night, and I saw 4 attempts. Prior to this I hadn't even seen attempts for awhile. So something has spurred people, at least this weekend, to really try and get a clear.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think LATELY people have been trying to get in there and get some clears. I saw one last night, and I saw 4 attempts. Prior to this I hadn't even seen attempts for awhile. So something has spurred people, at least this weekend, to really try and get a clear.

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We will probably see an increase this week now that the patch date is set, both in Bozja area and Castrum. Hopefully people can get it done that want to.

Oh

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Originally Posted by Infindox

Really don't want Discord to become the only way to get a group. For me, not including raiding and PotD/HoH which is meant for chatting, it's a failure of content if you MUST use an outside program just to get a chance to do something. It's 100% possible to pug the area, people just don't want to do it because there's no real good reward except MAYBE if you want the Siege Liege title.

Twitter XIV account just tweeted that we are getting both BLU and Bozja updates next Tuesday, so we'll see if that brings more people in hoping to get it done before the patch drops.

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oh i'm not happy about having to use Discord for this content but seriously since the dev team seems to be inclined to not fix it.

Lets hope those the patch addresses the issue then. That would be good news for the content. I'd also like to see them address the memory drop issue given one can get to R15 and be lucky to have enough memories for a weapon unless one does cluster farming but I'm not sure that is something people should have to do to get a weapon.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

R15 and be lucky to have enough memories for a weapon unless one does cluster farming but I'm not sure that is something people should have to do to get a weapon.

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I mean, why not? They can either farm mobs in Bozja or they can grind FATEs (at this point more than likely solo) in HW. Without trains running, farming mobs in Bozja is actually the most efficient way, in my opinion. Especially when it comes to Bitter Memories, unless people like doing antitower or whatever SIX times for ONE weapon. Cluster farming in particular, will give people access to certain desirable items, and or items to sell on the marketboard. It's a win, win. People can also farm fragments.

This is my current (Rookie) number of memories, this is all from inside bozja too (I already spent the ones I grinded FATEs for early on):

https://i.imgur.com/PYbNh4h.png

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I mean, why not? They can either farm mobs in Bozja or they can grind FATEs (at this point more than likely solo) in HW. Without trains running farming mobs in Bozja is actually the most efficient way, in my opinion. Especially when it comes to Bitter Memories, unless people like doing antitower or whatever SIX times for ONE weapon. Cluster farming in particular, will give people access to certain desirable items, and or items to sell on the marketboard. It's a win, win. People can also farm fragments, and prep for the next zone.

This is my current (Rookie) number of memories, this is all from inside bozja too (I already spent the ones I grinded FATEs for early on):

https://i.imgur.com/PYbNh4h.png

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I've run tons of cluster farms on my toons but my point is that there is no leveling associated with running those and the memory drops from fates and CE's is seriously terrible. One shouldn't have to leave the zone to get memories in my view they should be made readily available inside the content. Yeah cluster farms are efficient but that's not my point the drop rate for the other content inside the zone sucks and I'd like to see the drop rate adjusted.

And that is a pretty impressive number i might add.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I've run tons of cluster farms on my toons but my point is that there is no leveling associated with running those and the memory drops from fates and CE's is seriously terrible. One shouldn't have to leave the zone to get memories in my view they should be made readily available inside the content. Yeah cluster farms are efficient but that's not my point the drop rate for the other content inside the zone sucks and I'd like to see the drop rate adjusted.

And that is a pretty impressive number i might add.

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That's intentional and not something that should be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

That's intentional and not something that should be fixed.

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That's debatable. I can remember Anemos when one hit R20 you had enough crystals for 3 weapons . Here you can hit R15 and not be lucky to have enough for one. Sure you can say run clusters and I have but that's not in my view how the content should work and I have multiple toons are R15.