Gamerant lists MMORPG's with best stories, FFXIV #6, WoW #1, uhh

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Originally Posted by EmmetOtter

I don't think wow should be #1, it's latest xpac writing was just awful overall, but WoW does a great job in giving players choices in how they interact with the main story and give characters meaningful ways of being part of the story.

FFXIV has good story writing but without a doubt the worst mechanism of incorporating the player into the story. Its rigidly linear. There are no alternatives or choices involved. The story is essentially told to you with minimal importance given to your character. 99% of the MSQ steps are going somewhere and talking to someone. You're not the "Warrior of Light" but a "Messager of light". You're not entrusted to get Alphy his coffee, you're only entrusted to pass the message along to the guy who actually makes it. Occasionally you fight or do something but really you're not important.

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I feel like you have WoW and FFXIV mixed up in terms of incorporating the player character into the story, though I'd be interested in further explanation of your reasoning.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

To be fair, I think most people's opinions on the subject are complete and utter crap, as evidenced by things like failing to distinguish between story and storytelling. FFXIV's storytelling is actually kind of lame. It's just a movie interspersed between mostly meaningless periods of gameplay. WoW used to have vastly superior storytelling, where sure there was quest text, but a lot of it was left for the player to discover and infer as they explored the world in the form of mobs, spontaneous events, random items, and the environment in general. It treated the player like an even remotely intelligent and active participant in receiving the story, rather than a passive consumer who needed everything spelled out and spoonfed to them while they shut their brains off. That's perfect since we're playing a game, not watching a movie.

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WOW's story was a direct rip off of an older game, the environmental lore was purely based on Warhammer Fantasy with a tiny bit switched around to avoid litigation. The best ideas they had were gameplay and art direction, it was never the story. And starting with the end of Wrath they pushed all their story content into books written by terrible writers.

Want a great story in an MMO that told it through the environment, that was called The Secret World before they rebooted the game anyway. That's the problem, people think success means well crafted, WOW was never well crafted, it was just good enough at the right time and the right place. I paid for 15 years of it because it became a habit, not because it was good.

WoW simply benefits from jumping on the mmo train in 2004 vs FFXIV in 2013. They got way bigger fanbase and diehard fans that think Blizzard has Stephen King level writing skills.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

WOW's story was a direct rip off of an older game, the environmental lore was purely based on Warhammer Fantasy with a tiny bit switched around to avoid litigation. The best ideas they had were gameplay and art direction, it was never the story. And starting with the end of Wrath they pushed all their story content into books written by terrible writers.

Want a great story in an MMO that told it through the environment, that was called The Secret World before they rebooted the game anyway. That's the problem, people think success means well crafted, WOW was never well crafted, it was just good enough at the right time and the right place. I paid for 15 years of it because it became a habit, not because it was good.

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I love when people line up to prove me right.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Because the game world is still a deliberate arrangement and presentation of information to convey a certain set of knowledge, events, and perspectives to the player. If you can't figure that out for yourself, then you've failed to grasp something very fundamental about some combination of stories, storytelling, and games. The fact that the game doesn't spell out every single thing for the player in fact puts it in excellent company with our culture's most cherished works of literature and cinema. That you may fail to be told some stories if you choose not to engage with certain content is little different than how you will not be told a short story in an anthology you've purchased unless you choose to read it. Certainly, this sort of storytelling is a little more deconstructed than what we're accustomed to from other mediums, but it's plainly storytelling nonetheless if you have any genuine grasp of what storytelling is.

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hahahha, if only World of Warcraft had that kind of storytelling. This is like inferring a Big Mac as a well crafted Food Dish because it has Pickles. Sorry no, WOW has a ton of lore, and most of it is straight rip from Warhammer, what it doesn't rip from Warhammer is a reference to LoTR, D&D, Star Trek, and simple "lols" placed as easter eggs. The few epic moments of storytelling are 100% skippable or even removed from the game outright. Best moment of storytelling Wrathgate, it's gone, been gone for years. But don't worry, we now have a story told in books driving what is going on in-game with only the barest hint of what the book did. Oh but don't worry they will spend an expansion trying to bring the factions together to end the war, only to write a book add time travel and everyone forgets why the faction war was bad, but then next expansion they have a book telling a gritty plot of why the factions are at war, while at the same time bringing them together to face a space invasion by Warhammer 40k Demons in space ships, but then they end it with a book that explains badly why the Horde commits genocide.

Need I go on about the terrible storytelling, because I can list the books, the comic books, and the effect they have on the game, while the dev team fails to add in anything but the most minor references.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

hahahha, if only World of Warcraft had that kind of storytelling. This is like inferring a Big Mac as a well crafted Food Dish because it has Pickles. Sorry no, WOW has a ton of lore, and most of it is straight rip from Warhammer, what it doesn't rip from Warhammer is a reference to LoTR, D&D, Star Trek, and simple "lols" placed as easter eggs. The few epic moments of storytelling are 100% skippable or even removed from the game outright. Best moment of storytelling Wrathgate, it's gone, been gone for years. But don't worry, we now have a story told in books driving what is going on in-game with only the barest hint of what the book did. Oh but don't worry they will spend an expansion trying to bring the factions together to end the war, only to write a book add time travel and everyone forgets why the faction war was bad, but then next expansion they have a book telling a gritty plot of why the factions are at war, while at the same time bringing them together to face a space invasion by Warhammer 40k Demons in space ships, but then they end it with a book that explains badly why the Horde commits genocide.

Need I go on about the terrible storytelling, because I can list the books, the comic books, and the effect they have on the game, while the dev team fails to add in anything but the most minor references.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

To be fair, I think most people's opinions on the subject are complete and utter crap, as evidenced by things like failing to distinguish between story and storytelling.

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10charsssss

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

10charsssss

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It's not like you've shown any merit to your own opinion on the subject matter. You just have your own preference, but that's all it is.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

To be fair, I think most people's opinions on the subject are complete and utter crap, ...

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Anyone who thinks WOW has a good story is the top of that list, but I think you are just a troll, so I'm going to block you now.

I played wow up until cata and have played FF14 for the last 5 years or so. I wont make a list as I have never really played any other mmo but from what I know of wow's story. I would not be putting it in the number 1 spot, I think FF14 tells a better story but I wont place even it at number one. I think its kind of amusing how the writer of the article underline that MILLIONS OF PLAYERS keep coming back. I smell some heavy bias coming from that writer :D Tons of lore also does not make a good story, you can still end writing completely garbage depending on how you approach it.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I feel like you have WoW and FFXIV mixed up in terms of incorporating the player character into the story, though I'd be interested in further explanation of your reasoning.

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In FFXIV I am the "messenger boy of light", weapons and armor not required. Almost every single FFXIV msq quest step involves talking to someone and rarely you're given a task to actually do that consumes any significant amount of time. Comparing talk steps to task steps I would describe it as 90%+ talk steps and <10% task-driven steps. What's even worse is that even when given an action/task/mission it takes longer to get through the dialogue than to complete the mission. Ultimately, you are told what the story is. Its very non-interactive. Even when you're sent into a raid to complete a quest, ultimately its the cutscenes that do the story telling.

In Wow its more like 60% talk/40% task in terms of actual quest steps but time spent is more like 25% talk vs 75% action. Talk to someone and they give you a mission to kill people, spy on people, steal/find something, or do some other meaningful activity that's significant to the story. You better be wearing your armor and weapons because you're going to need it! Your actions show you the story and is done primarily in the open world instead of through an instance.

Wow is on the short end of most of my comparisons with FFXIV and I even think FFXIV has better story writing but damn the philosophy/approach taken by SE into translating it's stories into the game is awful whereas Blizzard is just on point.

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Originally Posted by EmmetOtter

In FFXIV I am the "messenger boy of light", weapons and armor not required. Almost every single FFXIV msq quest step involves talking to someone and rarely you're given a task to actually do that consumes any significant amount of time. Comparing talk steps to task steps I would describe it as 90%+ talk steps and <10% task-driven steps. What's even worse is that even when given an action/task/mission it takes longer to get through the dialogue than to complete the mission. Ultimately, you are told what the story is. Its very non-interactive. Even when you're sent into a raid to complete a quest, ultimately its the cutscenes that do the story telling.

In Wow its more like 60% talk/40% task in terms of actual quest steps but time spent is more like 25% talk vs 75% action. Talk to someone and they give you a mission to kill people, spy on people, steal/find something, or do some other meaningful activity that's significant to the story. You better be wearing your armor and weapons because you're going to need it! Your actions show you the story and is done primarily in the open world instead of through an instance.

Wow is on the short end of most of my comparisons with FFXIV and I even think FFXIV has better story writing but damn the philosophy/approach taken by SE into translating it's stories into the game is awful whereas Blizzard is just on point.

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In wow your character is but one of many heroes,so its ok for the story to just throw you into danger like and expandable commodity. It wont matter if you get your head lobbed off and guts ripped out cause hey..there are hundreds of others to take your place. In FF14 each shard has only 1 warrior of light or in the 1st case 5 warriors of light. So dashing off head long into danger with no thought or consideration especially seeing that warriors of light are not replaced with in any reasonable time frame would be foolish. The story writing for both games takes this into account, even WoW's own devs have said your character is but one of many heores.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Since both you and Vyrerus brought it up in this context, I did go and find an article talking a bit about how Dark Souls does story and I do think it's at least somewhat similar to the sort of thing I liked in WoW. The example of the archer, at least as presented in the article, is exactly the sort of thing I like. The game assumes you're smart enough to put the pieces together and let's you do so. FFXIV would just have some throwaway messenger NPC show up to report that the legendary archer is dead, while Alphinaud is on hand to say anything that that needs to be said on the player's behalf and can't be expressed with a single emote.

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What you liked about WoW, that I've read so far, Dark Souls (and in general all the soul-like games from FromSoft, like Bloodborne, Demon Souls, Sekiro) does in massive spades and I would say not only does it more but does it better (the environment is pretty rich in detail and the characters pretty much never give themselves a huge introduction and backstory, you pick it up overtime through objects, environment, and small quips).

That isn't to say I don't think has WoW doesn't have story or whatever, there is a hilarious amount of books for the universe, there is loads of flavor text and hidden npcs and other things, WoW has a story and a very big and expansive one- I often see people who favor FFXIV kind of discount that WoW has any story or lore at all just because it's not forced on you or as obvious (I don't mind FFXIV forces it, but it's clear one game is like "HEY U DO MSQ" and the other is like "eh, pay attention or not, wahtevs- I don't care"). Personally I'm worried the longer FFXIV goes on and forces MSQ it might scare people away though, it's going to be like 300 hours to catch up lol, I spent half that time to nearly 100% Witcher 3 XD.

Although in a big critique of WoW- I think they handle retcons poorly and their general quality, I feel from watching random story / lore / game announcement videos, is that it has gone down over time, I enjoy the ideas and concepts of the new things they try and I wouldn't say anything like the team is devoid of skill or interesting concepts (and I feel often players here give it an unfair shake, especially since many of the ideas one game uses another seems to be influenced on in a back and forth), but that there appears to be lack of funds and time they need to do what they should have done well (which I feel the earlier days of Blizzard that wouldn't have happened, Blizzard used to be my favorite company for "whatever happens, it'll be done good" but I wouldn't trust anything until it's been thoroughly reviewed first (there are still a few companies out there that'll refuse to deliver anything but excellence but they seem to be fewer and fewer).

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

In wow your character is but one of many heroes,so its ok for the story to just throw you into danger like and expandable commodity. It wont matter if you get your head lobbed off and guts ripped out cause hey..there are hundreds of others to take your place. In FF14 each shard has only 1 warrior of light or in the 1st case 5 warriors of light. So dashing off head long into danger with no thought or consideration especially seeing that warriors of light are not replaced with in any reasonable time frame would be foolish. The story writing for both games takes this into account, even WoW's own devs have said your character is but one of many heores.

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Unless SE changes ffxiv to have permanent death, our plot armor will always be 1 mile thick titanium with a Chobham layer surrounded by force fields. SE can implement the story with action, explosions, death, and destruction and we would be safer than today because we won't die of boredom.

It's time for se to let loose this dog of war and truly be a Warrior of Light.

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Originally Posted by EmmetOtter

In FFXIV I am the "messenger boy of light", weapons and armor not required. Almost every single FFXIV msq quest step involves talking to someone and rarely you're given a task to actually do that consumes any significant amount of time. Comparing talk steps to task steps I would describe it as 90%+ talk steps and <10% task-driven steps. What's even worse is that even when given an action/task/mission it takes longer to get through the dialogue than to complete the mission. Ultimately, you are told what the story is. Its very non-interactive. Even when you're sent into a raid to complete a quest, ultimately its the cutscenes that do the story telling.

In Wow its more like 60% talk/40% task in terms of actual quest steps but time spent is more like 25% talk vs 75% action. Talk to someone and they give you a mission to kill people, spy on people, steal/find something, or do some other meaningful activity that's significant to the story. You better be wearing your armor and weapons because you're going to need it! Your actions show you the story and is done primarily in the open world instead of through an instance.

Wow is on the short end of most of my comparisons with FFXIV and I even think FFXIV has better story writing but damn the philosophy/approach taken by SE into translating it's stories into the game is awful whereas Blizzard is just on point.

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Ok, so I feel like you're mixing two things here: being part of the story and being part of the action. Yes, you may feel like you spend more time in the action in WoW, but that doesn't make your character any more part of the story. You may think that FFXIV spends too much time talking, but at least they're talking with and to your character, as opposed to WoW where your character may suddenly disappear all of a sudden in important scenes as if your character was never there in the first place.

I think WoW has slowly made some changes recently to make your character actually has some presence in the story, but when player characters have NPC stand ins (see Legion class hall leaders/representatives as examples), it's very obvious that the player character isn't actually incorporated into the story.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

What you liked about WoW, that I've read so far, Dark Souls (and in general all the soul-like games from FromSoft, like Bloodborne, Demon Souls, Sekiro) does in massive spades and I would say not only does it more but does it better (the environment is pretty rich in detail and the characters pretty much never give themselves a huge introduction and backstory, you pick it up overtime through objects, environment, and small quips).

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Maybe I'll go give Dark Souls another shot then. I have the trilogy for PS4, but never really got around to it properly, largely because Monster Hunter World/Iceborne ate up almost 2,000 hours of my life and virtually all of the time I spent playing console games this console generation aside from the couple of weeks I spent on Nier Automata.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Although in a big critique of WoW- I think they handle retcons poorly and their general quality, I feel from watching random story / lore / game announcement videos, is that it has gone down over time, I enjoy the ideas and concepts of the new things they try and I wouldn't say anything like the team is devoid of skill or interesting concepts (and I feel often players here give it an unfair shake, especially since many of the ideas one game uses another seems to be influenced on in a back and forth), but that there appears to be lack of funds and time they need to do what they should have done well (which I feel the earlier days of Blizzard that wouldn't have happened, Blizzard used to be my favorite company for "whatever happens, it'll be done good" but I wouldn't trust anything until it's been thoroughly reviewed first (there are still a few companies out there that'll refuse to deliver anything but excellence but they seem to be fewer and fewer).

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Absolutely. Warcraft III and early WoW had a serviceable story, though I always felt WCIII and anything related to it, such as WotLK, was generally overrated in that regard. Following MoP, however, Blizzard basically gave up on doing anything genuinely new in favor of an unending stream of returns and retcons in a cheap attempt to cash in on nostalgia regardless of the demands it placed on the universe. A lot of the retcons they introduce actually make even bigger problems than they fix, like the Legion being the same Legion in every reality. Why should any player want to care about the lore when the people making it obviously don't and change it regularly to suit their most immediate needs?

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Maybe I'll go give Dark Souls another shot then. I have the trilogy for PS4, but never really got around to it properly, largely because Monster Hunter World/Iceborne ate up almost 2,000 hours of my life and virtually all of the time I spent playing console games this console generation aside from the couple of weeks I spent on Nier Automata.

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It's pretty good I think, so long as you don't mind dying lol. Your experience with those other games you listed will help you a bit with Dark Souls. The story I think is nice, and how they tell it through the locations, music, npcs situations, and monsters is subtle- so you have to prepare your thinking cap because it's unlikely they'll just straight up tell you things. Like each time you talk to an npc in a new area they might sound a little bit more broken and then later you fight them, but the game wouldn't have made this long cutscene screaming to you about how that was them, if you noticed you noticed if you didn't you might have just thought "what a strange situation" and for some reason never see that npc again lol, and at the locations and small quips of dialog (the game doesn't go on extended rants) and through items you learn what they were trying to do and their troubles. May even be your fault, depending on your actions :D.

There are a number of youtube channels dedicated to piecing it all together after you finish the game, which can be fun.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Absolutely. Warcraft III and early WoW had a serviceable story, though I always felt WCIII and anything related to it, such as WotLK, was generally overrated in that regard. Following MoP, however, Blizzard basically gave up on doing anything genuinely new in favor of an unending stream of returns and retcons in a cheap attempt to cash in on nostalgia regardless of the demands it placed on the universe. A lot of the retcons they introduce actually make even bigger problems than they fix, like the Legion being the same Legion in every reality. Why should any player want to care about the lore when the people making it obviously don't and change it regularly to suit their most immediate needs?

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I never understood why they made so many changes, I don't think gently massaging things to fit your gameplay needs is a problem but there were a number of moments where someone was telling me some change they made and I'm just like "...but y tho?". What did they achieve that they couldn't have achieved by doing something else that wasn't against the story.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

WoW's lore isn't even that deep, because they are constantly retconning and trashing the old lore to make room for whatever the current raid designer feels like doing. This isn't even a new problem, it goes all the way back to Burning Legion and the "lorelol" jokes of how they basically rewrote the Draenei on the fly and then had the Blood Elves stealing spaceships because "reasons".

At this point it's a soup of stuff that is barely held together by any kind of common narrative, as shown by how the game lets you just skip almost all of it to get to whatever is new and current.

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It really goes all the way back to Warcraft 2 and 3, where the orcs were entirely rewritten from "generic evil army" to "noble savages corrupted by demons".

And even that lore, including 90% of the backstory for Thrall, essentially the game's main character, largely depends upon Lord of the Clans, a game that was never even finished.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

They also credit Illidan as "among the greatest video game villains of all time" despite part of Legion being devoted to how Illidan wasn't actually a villain at all, so that article's credibility is near zero.

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He's an interesting character for sure but for me he's not remotely the best villain I have come across at all. Not even among just the characters in WoW.

It's interesting how Star Trek Online is on the list. WoW requires you to know about events that happened before the mmo to truly appreciate the game's lore, but Star Trek...jeez you need to watch several seasons worth of the tv series and at least one movie to properly understand the significance of STO's story. Star Trek's lore is actually gigantic. Sure the game does say enough so you can follow the story but it's absolutely not enough to be able to really appreciate what happens there.

I like FFXIV's story for many reasons, but one of them is you are not required to have prior knowledge of anything in order to be able to fully appreciate it. Yes there are references to other FF games but that's all they are at most. Being aware of them is not necessary to strongly appreciate the story, and not being aware of them won't make you miss out on the importance of anything. This is not the case at all for WoW or STO, especially for STO.

The writer mentions that STO takes place three decades after the movie Nemesis...but even watching that on its own isn't enough. You'd be lost if you watched that without enough Star Trek knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Star Trek's lore is actually gigantic. Sure the game does say enough so you can follow the story but it's absolutely not enough to be able to really appreciate what happens there.

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This is why I don't put much emphasis on lore. To me, lore is the setting/background story whereas the plot is the main/foreground story. As long as enough of the lore is presented to understand the plot of the story, the rest of the lore is not necessary, though no less welcomed. Where an established lore is important is primarily to guide the development of the story, but of course, plans can change, hence retcon exists.

For example, in FFXIV, I wouldn't have minded had new characters in ARR had the same intro and extras as 1.0 characters because 1.0's story is just part of the lore that you don't necessarily have to know to appreciate the story post Calamity.

And as for STO, while I am a Star Trek fan (in as much as I've seen every TV series and movies up to the first few episodes of the first season of Discovery), I think not having that knowledge would still make me appreciate STO's story. It's just too bad I don't really have time to play it any more after FFXIV, WoW, and SWTOR even though I started with it.

Blade and Soul not even on the list makes it questionable.

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Originally Posted by linayar

And as for STO, while I am a Star Trek fan (in as much as I've seen every TV series and movies up to the first few episodes of the first season of Discovery), I think not having that knowledge would still make me appreciate STO's story. It's just too bad I don't really have time to play it any more after FFXIV, WoW, and SWTOR even though I started with it.

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I can't speak on how I would be because I went into STO already being a huge Star Trek fan since early childhood, but I did play it with a buddy who knew almost nothing about the franchise. And I had to explain so much to him. He didn't understand what was happening. Maybe the new player experience is different now? Maybe things are introduced better now? When I played with that person it was around nine years ago, I think. A long time ago anyway.

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Originally Posted by EmmetOtter

Unless SE changes ffxiv to have permanent death, our plot armor will always be 1 mile thick titanium with a Chobham layer surrounded by force fields. SE can implement the story with action, explosions, death, and destruction and we would be safer than today because we won't die of boredom.

It's time for se to let loose this dog of war and truly be a Warrior of Light.

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But that's just video games in general. Because the death of your character means the end of the game. Doubly if the character is created by the player themselves.

What you say makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I can't speak on how I would be because I went into STO already being a huge Star Trek fan since early childhood, but I did play it with a buddy who knew almost nothing about the franchise. And I had to explain so much to him. He didn't understand what was happening. Maybe the new player experience is different now? Maybe things are introduced better now? When I played with that person it was around nine years ago, I think. A long time ago anyway.

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I played it 3 years ago, and I think, without previous Star Trek knowledge, you could take it as a generic sci-fi/captain-of-the-ship type story at the beginning. I didn't really get far since I started playing FFXIV about a few weeks later and got engrossed with that and never really looked back, but it had your standard combat/missions type of gameplay with ship combat and scifi jargons, so I didn't think the story was hard to follow regardless of previous knowledge, but it may differ with other people's experience.

You know, considering it's free to play (I think), I may just start playing it again from time to time, though I've deleted my account so would have to start from scratch, which is probably a good thing. I just can't stand the character creator, though, it's an example of sliders going too far.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Ok, so I feel like you're mixing two things here: being part of the story and being part of the action. Yes, you may feel like you spend more time in the action in WoW, but that doesn't make your character any more part of the story. You may think that FFXIV spends too much time talking, but at least they're talking with and to your character, as opposed to WoW where your character may suddenly disappear all of a sudden in important scenes as if your character was never there in the first place.

I think WoW has slowly made some changes recently to make your character actually has some presence in the story, but when player characters have NPC stand ins (see Legion class hall leaders/representatives as examples), it's very obvious that the player character isn't actually incorporated into the story.

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I mean let's be honest here. Yes XIV incorporates your character into the story in the sense that we're the "Protagonist" but most of the time that means being the idiot that gets sent in to kill things or retrieve things, we do not come up with any plans, strategies, etc, we're just the one-man army with the magical power to beat up people better than anyone else. I don't see too much of a difference between that and being "random goon nr. 347" who gets sent in because they're better at beating someone up than most people. Granted WoW doesn't do that any better but it doesn't exactly help that we're a silent protagonist who doesn't just lack voice acting but literally doesn't say anything most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I mean let's be honest here. Yes XIV incorporates your character into the story in the sense that we're the "Protagonist" but most of the time that means being the idiot that gets sent in to kill things or retrieve things, we do not come up with any plans, strategies, etc, we're just the one-man army with the magical power to beat up people better than anyone else. I don't see too much of a difference between that and being "random goon nr. 347" who gets sent in because they're better at beating someone up than most people. Granted WoW doesn't do that any better but it doesn't exactly help that we're a silent protagonist who doesn't just lack voice acting but literally doesn't say anything most of the time.

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So, being the hero means being an idiot now? Because, yes, our character (even at the start of the game as a brand new adventurer) is about helping people, even when we joke about it from time to time. The difference between our character and "random goon nr. 347" is that "random goon nr. 347" can't do what we do (see primal tempering).

But saying "Yes XIV incorporates your character into the story" and "Granted WoW doesn't do that any better" is quite the opposite from what you said before, so I guess we're on the same book, at least, even if not on the same page.

And yes, being a silent protagonist does have its limitation in terms of characterization, but WoW's player character is silent most of the time too, so not really relevant.

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Originally Posted by Razard

But that's just video games in general. Because the death of your character means the end of the game. Doubly if the character is created by the player themselves.

What you say makes no sense.

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I am a master of not making sense but thats another topic :D

uhh yeah wow has not been story since ehh around warlords of draenor. Chris metzen their story guy left blizzard around then i think somewhere and the rest of the clowns left after activison started firing people or laying them off. That is probably a bait article at best or troll at worst so just ignore it. ff14 has already achieved what wow could not and that's over 13 million players.

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Originally Posted by Grimr

ff14 has already achieved what wow could not and that's over 13 million players.

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WoW was claiming numbers of 20+ million players at some point in its lifetime, though ultimately, it's just marketing fluff in both cases as it's referring to the number of accounts that were created overall; the vast majority of which are mass-produced RMT bots.