Patch 5.3 will allow Flying Mounts in ARR areas!!!!

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Man I still don't think this change was necessary but the arguments I'm seeing against it really are the exact same arguments I saw over and over in WoW against having flight at all, and it's just bringing back that heavy feeling of *tired* I got in every thread on the topic. To this day restricting flight the way they did is imo one of the most frustrating and disappointing decisions that Blizzard ever made.

I'm just curious to see how SE is changing the zones to enable this, if any further, and why they wanted to do it. It'll be nicest in places like East Shroud, which is a map I've pretty much always strongly disliked navigating, and Coerthas which is just. Big and empty anyway, with only one Aetheryte and a lot of things that send you back to it over time :p

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Hence instant teleport by clicking on the map is even better in WoW and here. Nobody enjoys time flying, and if they do, they can still fly, but let the rest of the playerbase just get where they want to be instantly.

I just fail to see the point spending time adding flying to ARR when you have virtually no reason to visit any of those zones unless you're leveling alt characters.

It's interesting to me because while I welcome the ability to fly in the old zones I just don't see much reason to actually go to them. I guess my hope is that all of the work and effort to make the old zones flyable is accompanied, now or later, by content that actually makes use of the ability. I would hate the developers to have spent the time on a labour of love that pretty much no one takes advantage of.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I just fail to see the point spending time adding flying to ARR when you have virtually no reason to visit any of those zones unless you're leveling alt characters.

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Well, we have hunts, sightseeing logs, beast tribe quests and fishing windows as well as possibly new places to take screenshots. And who knows, we might be running back and forth to the Crystal Tower over and over for the foreseeable MSQ patches, especially since completing it will be mandatory as well.

If they just slightly hover over the ground that's going to be hilarious. If they actually fly as high as in any Heavensward zone then I don't mind this change. The saddest thing is how small these individual zones will feel with flying, you'll get from point A to point B in like 5 seconds in a lot of ARR zones.

It would've been a lot better if they tried to merge some zones into bigger zones. Like Lower La noscea + Eastern La noscea into 1 zone.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

If they just slightly hover over the ground that's going to be hilarious. If they actually fly as high as in any Heavensward zone then I don't mind this change. The saddest thing is how small these individual zones will feel with flying, you'll get from point A to point B in like 5 seconds in a lot of ARR zones.

It would've been a lot better if they tried to merge some zones into bigger zones. Like Lower La noscea + Eastern La noscea into 1 zone.

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And then flesh them out with new details like an actually detailed muntay cellars with workers and a storage room with files occupied by a Duskwight researcher and winding paths and some Gelmorran architecture

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

SE has screwed up majorly in the 5.x patches this expansion by drastically reducing gameplay time.
I mean, they basically removed Ruby Weapon within the SAME patch cycle by giving out free 385 weapons!

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How have they screwed up majorly in the 5.x patches? Sure we lost the deep dungeon and a dungeon here and there.

Lets look at what we have been getting. We still get a dungeon every patch, we still have the twenty four man raids. We still have beast tribes. We still have the relic weapons. We still have the 8 man normal raids and the 8 man savage raids. We still had Ultimate raid. We still get the EX trials. We are getting a new ex trial content with the unreal Trials. We are getting a new field instance for the relic upgrade steps. We got Ishgard restoration. We got a much needed rework on gathering and crafting side of classes. We have the ocean fishing. We got crafting and gathering relics finally with this expansion. We got a good big of QoL changes as well. We are getting a rework of the ARR MSQ which was very much needed (and yes they figured while we are here we might as well finally work on flying in ARR which I do believe they said they did in their FREE time, not during their normal development work.) So yeah I guess they majorly screwed up because they didn't focus 100% to combat with every patch..

As far the Ruby weapons, ex weapons get replaced pretty quickly with tome weapons and the savage weapon as well in most expansions. Sure the first step of the relic was pretty easy but it wasn't a surprise since they told use well in advance in one of the LL and in interview leading up to 5.2 that the first step was going to be easy and mainly for story while the upgrade steps that will follow will be a grind.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Hence instant teleport by clicking on the map is even better in WoW and here. Nobody enjoys time flying, and if they do, they can still fly, but let the rest of the playerbase just get where they want to be instantly.

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I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing or what here genuinely O.o is that sarcasm??

Ah I see from your other posts... Hyperbolic sarcasm then. Because allowing flight, which every new expansion zone already has, in the zones that don't have it, is absolutely equivalent to deleting all need for travel entirely. Definitely. Mhm.

Yeah, I'm done, I'm putting the worm can back down. Have a nice day folks.

As someone who is new to the game I have been grinding Allied Seals just for increased mount speed for each zone. I do hope they do not make this obsolete and especially worthless for players who have already invested their time in unlocking higher speed in each ARR zone. I think flying should be allowed only for those with 2 star mount speed in ARR areas. And I don't have most of them unlocked, so not am biased at all, just thought I'd share the opinion :)

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Originally Posted by Truen

I no longer think Square Enix is capable of producing unique and enjoyable jobs. I believe those that originally designed the jobs have left the company and those currently in charge believe homogenization copies of each other varying only with different flashy graphical effects are the way to go.

It's absolutely heartbreaking and disgusting to admit.

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very much agreed, that's one of the strongest reasons why FFXIV is pushing me away and making everything very simplistic and casual ( just look at the relic quests)

at least FFXI is making me get my fix for adventure and using status effects in battle like sleep, paralyzed, shell II, Protects, buffs, debuffing,Haste II ect. feels like a proper Final fantasy game with the jobs and now they function there. sad I'm having a great time with an older games than this modern WoW game that purely DPS

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I just fail to see the point spending time adding flying to ARR when you have virtually no reason to visit any of those zones unless you're leveling alt characters.

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Its most likely for newer players rather than us. Since they unlock flying after beating the MSQ, 100% sure its to reduce the amount of time of the newer players having to go back and forth between places since ground speed mounts are slow as heck unless you unlock the speed.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I just fail to see the point spending time adding flying to ARR when you have virtually no reason to visit any of those zones unless you're leveling alt characters.

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People like me still visit ARR, HW, and SB areas. You don't need to have an objective to revisit old areas and take in the scenery. I can't understand people who limit themselves to the ShB areas or only keep themselves in the Eulmore plaza (because people are afraid to go downstairs, apparently).

Been playing for nearly 5 years I have explored every inch of AAR zones. There are no surprises left nothing to find and stand in awe at for me. Once in blue blood covered moon I will see a high level player pass through a place like the central shroud or Thanalan. Its also pretty typical of just about every MMO out there that outside major cities you wont see a lot of high level players in low level area's. When you do come across a high level player in a place like lower noscea, they are either doing fates, looking for marks, crafting/gathering or leveling another role. Me personally when I go to low level area I am either passing through or gathering not much else..

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Been playing for nearly 5 years I have explored every inch of AAR zones. There are no surprises left nothing to find and stand in awe at for me. Once in blue blood covered moon I will see a high level player pass through a place like the central shroud or Thanalan. Its also pretty typical of just about every MMO out there that outside major cities you wont see a lot of high level players in low level area's. When you do come across a high level player in a place like lower noscea, they are either doing fates, looking for marks, crafting/gathering or leveling another role. Me personally when I go to low level area I am either passing through or gathering not much else..

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Sounds sad for you, in all honesty. I very much enjoy revisiting old areas and I've played this game consistently since 1.0. Flying will only further the exploration of these areas and I'm really looking forward to it. Many of my friends and FC mates are as well.

Here's hoping that the floating city of Nym will be explorable outside of that gold saucer event.

Let the hunt complaining begin. Otherwise it will probably just shave a minute off here or there going to grab or help someone in a zone you never go to.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Let the hunt complaining begin. Otherwise it will probably just shave a minute off here or there going to grab or help someone in a zone you never go to.

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I think it's liable to reduce the complaining simply because people were prone to not getting to ARR hunts in time due to not knowing to how navigate zones efficiently.

There will always be trolls or people who otherwise aren't interested in sharing the hunts, and adding flight benefits them just as much as the more altruistic hunters.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Yes, flying is more important. This is the last time they can get it set up before Spaghetti Code reaches a point to where it may be near impossible. I for one welcome this, it'll help speed up the horrors of ARR and allow more people to experience the joys of HW, SB, and ShB. Besides, this IS a good excuse as to why the other things were put on hold, it means they don't need to do this for any other areas in the game and can now concentrate on newer content. Better now then later.

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This is some of the most acrobatic mental gymnastics I've seen tossed around. Before, my comment was based solely on learning about this change. I emphasize on that word because this is not an addition. But after reading Yoshi's body language, and hearing his thoughts on the matter; it is actually a bit scary to know that he basically caved when he knows this eats up invaluable resources and time for something that provides VERY little benefit - if any at all. He's not happy about this, and neither are a lot of players who know exactly what this means down the road.

I can't fathom at all how this was green-lighted, but what's done is done, and there is no point crying over spilled milk. My thoughts on the matter, like my mounts when I am in ARR, will remain grounded. And that thought is that this was an utterly stupid decision from the dev team, especially when they have not been able to remain consistent with content like deep dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This is some of the most acrobatic mental gymnastics I've seen tossed around. Before, my comment was based solely on learning about this change. I emphasize on that word because this is not an addition. But after reading Yoshi's body language, and hearing his thoughts on the matter; it is actually a bit scary to know that he basically caved when he knows this eats up invaluable resources and time for something that provides VERY little benefit - if any at all. He's not happy about this, and neither are a lot of players who know exactly what this means down the road.

I can't fathom at all how this was green-lighted, but what's done is done, and there is no point crying over spilled milk. My thoughts on the matter, like my mounts when I am in ARR, will remain grounded. And that thought is that this was an utterly stupid decision from the dev team, especially when they have not been able to remain consistent with content like deep dungeon.

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Points you missed.

1. Yoshi did not green light it

2. Dev's did it in their free time so no resources or valuable time was wasted.

3. Yoshi was not aware of it and this not the first time the devs have used their free time for project yoshi was not aware of.

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2. Dev's did it in their free time so no resources or valuable time was wasted.

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Okay, so the question then becomes, where is all this supposed "free time" coming from, particularly when taking into account the fact that we're still getting further and further reductions in developed content per patch, per expansion?

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Okay, so the question then becomes, where is all this supposed "free time" coming from, particularly when taking into account the fact that we're still getting further and further reductions in developed content per patch, per expansion?

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Team 1 has X task to complete.

Team 2 has Y task to complete after Team 1.

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Team 2 has to wait on Team 1 to complete their task before it gets handed to them and they can work on it. In the meantime, Team 2 (has another task to complete) or (has no current tasks). If (has no current tasks), Team 2 works on (Z Task) while waiting.

Team 1 completes their task, where it gets moved on to Team 2. Team A either (has new task) or (has no current tasks) to complete. If (has no current tasks), Team A works on (Z Task) while Team 2 completes their task.

And that was a minor example I just thought up. There could always be a group of them just not working on something right that moment. The entire crew isn't 100% busy 100% of the time.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Points you missed.

1. Yoshi did not green light it

2. Dev's did it in their free time so no resources or valuable time was wasted.

3. Yoshi was not aware of it and this not the first time the devs have used their free time for project yoshi was not aware of.

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Some points you missed.

1. I never said Yoshi green-lighted it

2. Moot. The only way this argument works is if content does not suffer as result.

We're not getting a deep dungeon. Dungeons reduced to one per patch. Viera and Hrothgar are still incomplete, housing is still a major issue, etc. That "free" time could have been spent towards these things instead of using gods knows how much time and resources towards giving us filler that has very little impact on what most of the playerbase is doing NOW.

3. I am aware that he was not aware.

Maybe. I actually speculate that he was aware, disapproved, and someone who sits behind a bigger desk than him told him to make it happen anyway. Yoshi isn't really one to play the same hand twice, which is why I am not buying the "free time" excuse. This is a very significant change to all the ARR zones. Do you really think the amount of time and resources it took to make that happen all transpired with Yoshi never being aware of it? I would LOVE to know exactly how much "free time" the devs feel they have. Especially in a patch that has been directly affected by Covid-19.

It's going to be tough to convince myself and others of the same mind that this wasn't a complete and total waste of dev "free time".

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Some points you missed.

1. I never said Yoshi green-lighted it

2. Moot. The only way this argument works is if content does not suffer as result.

We're not getting a deep dungeon. Dungeons reduced to one per patch. Viera and Hrothgar are still incomplete, housing is still a major issue, etc. That "free" time could have been spent towards these things instead of using gods knows how much time and resources towards giving us filler that has very little impact on what most of the playerbase is doing NOW.

3. I am aware that he was not aware.

Maybe. I actually speculate that he was aware, disapproved, and someone who sits behind a bigger desk than him told him to make it happen anyway. Yoshi isn't really one to play the same hand twice, which is why I am not buying the "free time" excuse. This is a very significant change to all the ARR zones. Do you really think the amount of time and resources it took to make that happen all transpired with Yoshi never being aware of it? I would LOVE to know exactly how much "free time" the devs feel they have. Especially in a patch that has been directly affected by Covid-19.

It's going to be tough to convince myself and others of the same mind that this wasn't a complete and total waste of dev "free time".

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How hard do you think it is for the dev's to move the invisible barriers? Moving Barriers is simple repositioning them all just takes time and cannot be done in one go. But it can be done by one department unlike making a 4 man dungeon which requires more then one department being involved. There is a big difference between them having time to make totally new content and having the time to go back an make changes to existing content. There is also the fact the various departments that make up the dev team dont all have free same at the exact same moment. Moving the barriers is also one change that even Yoshi would most likely not notice.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

One of the main strengths of FF is the ability they have mastered to make even the oldest content and areas have meaning. Even going back for a small quest keeps the community engaged.

Nothing kills a game for a newer player than empty early zones. The fact that we are seeing so many sprouts lately in these areas gives vitality to these areas and keeps the game alive.

That will be lost with thos and it may take a while, but it will affect the game in the long run.

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Ehehehe Ahahaha. I've been leveling a newbie alt for the past couple months, albeit very slowly due to ARR's horrible fetch-quest ridden questline, I rarely see anyone out running around. Adding flight won't change what's already rare to see to begin with.

Nothing kills a game faster than a boring and slow burning early game, and that is exactly what ARR is, slow and boring. It takes an incredibly long time to get to the meaningful parts of ARR's story. And walking, running, sprinting and spamming your mount doesn't help reduce the trashiness of the nausea-inducing fetchquests. Flight, however, will expedite the boring fetchquests to allow a new player to get to the quests that hold actual meaning.

And adding flight doesn't change much of anything. People can just use auto-run to ignore the sights and sounds of the environment. (Which is what I do. I don't care for the environment, get me out of there asap so I can get back to doing other more entertaining things rather than slowly walking through shrubs or rocks that I have seen a thousand times.)

However, I agree with the revisiting old zones thing. A zone will only keep a hold of it's "newness" for so long before it's reduced to normalcy or even feel like a chore to navigate. An example is traveling from an aetheryte to a beast-tribe every day, every other day, or every few days, you'll quickly start seeing the zone as nothing but a bunch of grass and rocks. It takes a while for a zone that's been burnt out to recover its "wow factor", and adding new things to really old zones does allow people to re-experience that "wow factor". But flight may actually increase that feeling because you'll be able to see more of the zone at once rather than very small sections.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

How hard do you think it is for the dev's to move the invisible barriers? Moving Barriers is simple repositioning them all just takes time and cannot be done in one go. But it can be done by one department unlike making a 4 man dungeon which requires more then one department being involved. There is a big difference between them having time to make totally new content and having the time to go back an make changes to existing content. There is also the fact the various departments that make up the dev team dont all have free same at the exact same moment. Moving the barriers is also one change that even Yoshi would most likely not notice.

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Do you think making flying available in the ARR zones just entails moving invisible barriers? Do you really think it is that easy? HW, SB, and ShB had their zones designed with the intention that mounts can fly there. That is not the case with ARR. They now have to go back to zones that already exist, and modify them. You might also want to take note that invisible barriers are not removed. They will still be in place, just differently to accommodate the changes.

The rest of your statement is why I brought up how allocation works in a previous post (you can't take five eggs from a basket that has only four). This metaphor is to express that no matter how many, or how few resources are allocated, that is the exact number that is not working on relevant content. No matter how much or how little time was spent on its development is the exact amount of time not spent on relevant content.

I am not sure I can make it any more clear than that. Questionable decisions like this one are very concerning.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

How hard do you think it is for the dev's to move the invisible barriers? Moving Barriers is simple repositioning them all just takes time and cannot be done in one go. But it can be done by one department unlike making a 4 man dungeon which requires more then one department being involved. There is a big difference between them having time to make totally new content and having the time to go back an make changes to existing content. There is also the fact the various departments that make up the dev team dont all have free same at the exact same moment. Moving the barriers is also one change that even Yoshi would most likely not notice.

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I highly highly doubt they will just move invisible barriers around and call it a day.

Go to Xephatol's entrance in Coerthus Central Highlands, get your camera to look past the gate and take a good hard look at those glorious 2D trees, trees mind you that would be completely see able naturally with flying, I doubt the Dev team would just leave those trees as they currently are.

There are loads of stuff like that in not meant to be seen areas that will easily be seen with flying, looking at you mess in North Shroud XD. If they leave them as they are then wouldn't be too much time and could be possible to hide from Yoshi but if they did any model reworks and such yea no because it would've been passed to a lot of different developers and Yoshi is hands on as evidenced by Lakshmi being changed to her current look (she was originally meant to be older looking heck the devs had to fight to keep the more mature sounding vocalist in the song), would be very hard to slip newish models around especially for 17 zones seriously that would've taken a good amount of 'free time' props if true but I highly doubt it was.

Personally I would've wanted their 'free time' spent on giving female Viera and male Hrothgar more headgear and hairstyles would've been way better received as would've shown they are working on them but apparently adding flight in ARR is more deserving of their time and resources than trying to lessen the limits on the newest races that desperately need some love since basically been abandoned since launch barring the usual 'we're working on it' it is at a point where they need to start showing results to this.

Thank god. I really hate it when I have to go back to some arr place and just, can't fly! So much love to the devs for this!

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Do you think making flying available in the ARR zones just entails moving invisible barriers? Do you really think it is that easy? HW, SB, and ShB had their zones designed with the intention that mounts can fly there. That is not the case with ARR. They now have to go back to zones that already exist, and modify them. You might also want to take note that invisible barriers are not removed. They will still be in place, just differently to accommodate the changes.

The rest of your statement is why I brought up how allocation works in a previous post (you can't take five eggs from a basket that has only four). This metaphor is to express that no matter how many, or how few resources are allocated, that is the exact number that is not working on relevant content. No matter how much or how little time was spent on its development is the exact amount of time not spent on relevant content.

I am not sure I can make it any more clear than that. Questionable decisions like this one are very concerning.

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As it even occcured to you that when they have free time its cause they have nothing relevant to work on? Can't work on relevant content if its in the hands of the team that comes before yours now can you? I know its hard to believe but yes even game developers have periods of time where there is no work cause they are waiting on their fellow dev's to finish their end.

People seem to think that things like this are worked on and completed overnight. These bouts of free time that a dev has could easily amount to something over a longer period of time. Small bits of free time, yet several years to slowly build it behind the scenes. It's doubtful that this flying in ARR zones was thought of just this expansion. If you had a small group of devs working together on this in their free time over the course of a few years, this could be accomplished. I doubt any resources were taken from anything just to complete this. Y'all love getting upset over QoL changes that don't directly affect you.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

People seem to think that things like this are worked on and completed overnight. These bouts of free time that a dev has could easily amount to something over a longer period of time. Small bits of free time, yet several years to slowly build it behind the scenes. It's doubtful that this flying in ARR zones was thought of just this expansion. If you had a small group of devs working together on this in their free time over the course of a few years, this could be accomplished. I doubt any resources were taken from anything just to complete this. Y'all love getting upset over QoL changes that don't directly affect you.

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Thats what I have been trying to point out. Ya its time a consuming task to do but one that uses very little resources and can be done over a long period. Adding flying to ARR is not what has cost us a dungeon the devs focusing on new content did. Developement was not slowed by adding Flying to ARR covid 19 and the changes SE is making to accomidate it have slowed things down.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

People seem to think that things like this are worked on and completed overnight. These bouts of free time that a dev has could easily amount to something over a longer period of time. Small bits of free time, yet several years to slowly build it behind the scenes. It's doubtful that this flying in ARR zones was thought of just this expansion. If you had a small group of devs working together on this in their free time over the course of a few years, this could be accomplished. I doubt any resources were taken from anything just to complete this. Y'all love getting upset over QoL changes that don't directly affect you.

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OK i'mma put it this way.

They decided to make female Viera and male Hrothgar from around 4.1, with me so far, so during their 'free time' from then to now they decided their 'free time' was better spent adding flying to ARR zones with whatever they decided to do with it (whether just moving Barriers to replacing models to suit a flying view) than work on getting as much headgear working for female Viera and male Hrothgar.

And you wonder why people might think this was a bad decision to do?

It's their 'free time' can do whatever they want to do with it but when glaring issues that could've been allieviated with said 'free time' are continously put aside for minor QoL people are going to question said decision.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I highly highly doubt they will just move invisible barriers around and call it a day.

Go to Xephatol's entrance in Coerthus Central Highlands, get your camera to look past the gate and take a good hard look at those glorious 2D trees, trees mind you that would be completely see able naturally with flying, I doubt the Dev team would just leave those trees as they currently are.

There are loads of stuff like that in not meant to be seen areas that will easily be seen with flying, looking at you mess in North Shroud XD. If they leave them as they are then wouldn't be too much time and could be possible to hide from Yoshi but if they did any model reworks and such yea no because it would've been passed to a lot of different developers and Yoshi is hands on as evidenced by Lakshmi being changed to her current look (she was originally meant to be older looking heck the devs had to fight to keep the more mature sounding vocalist in the song), would be very hard to slip newish models around especially for 17 zones seriously that would've taken a good amount of 'free time' props if true but I highly doubt it was.

Personally I would've wanted their 'free time' spent on giving female Viera and male Hrothgar more headgear and hairstyles would've been way better received as would've shown they are working on them but apparently adding flight in ARR is more deserving of their time and resources than trying to lessen the limits on the newest races that desperately need some love since basically been abandoned since launch barring the usual 'we're working on it' it is at a point where they need to start showing results to this.

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The trees are easily dealt with as they are part of the thousands of place able objects in the game. We would all like to see them doing something else with their free time but its their time to use not ours. The devs that did this likely dont work on player/npc models and free time varies from one department to another. You want more Veira head pieces then the devs you want are the ones that work on Player and npc models not the ones handling world design/builders

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

It's their 'free time' can do whatever they want to do with it but when glaring issues that could've been allieviated with said 'free time' are continously put aside for minor QoL people are going to question said decision.

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The teams that deal with flying and zone design are not the same teams that design character models and clothing. The term 'developer' does not imply generalization of skill sets. The art department does not design or code dungeon battles, and those few people who graced us with the upcoming abilities do not design gear sets. Got it?

You can say you don't like it, but you can't demand people spend their free time (whatever that implies in the Real World) on your own pet projects.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

The teams that deal with flying and zone design are not the same teams that design character models and clothing. The term 'developer' does not imply generalization of skill sets. The art department does not design or code dungeon battles, and those few people who graced us with the upcoming abilities do not design gear sets. Got it?

You can say you don't like it, but you can't demand people spend their free time (whatever that implies in the Real World) on your own pet projects.

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This is why I just need to give up explaing things someone comes along who does it better. But nope I just keep opening my mouth lol Thank you though.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

OK i'mma put it this way.

They decided to make female Viera and male Hrothgar from around 4.1, with me so far, so during their 'free time' from then to now they decided their 'free time' was better spent adding flying to ARR zones with whatever they decided to do with it (whether just moving Barriers to replacing models to suit a flying view) than work on getting as much headgear working for female Viera and male Hrothgar.

And you wonder why people might think this was a bad decision to do?

It's their 'free time' can do whatever they want to do with it but when glaring issues that could've been allieviated with said 'free time' are continously put aside for minor QoL people are going to question said decision.

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Vanity items are not "glaring issues". If I /facepalm any harder I'm going to collapse my skull.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

The teams that deal with flying and zone design are not the same teams that design character models and clothing. The term 'developer' does not imply generalization of skill sets. The art department does not design or code dungeon battles, and those few people who graced us with the upcoming abilities do not design gear sets. Got it?

You can say you don't like it, but you can't demand people spend their free time (whatever that implies in the Real World) on your own pet projects.

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Map design deals with 3D modeling, they would be able to sort out headpieces on characters in their 'free time', it just wouldn't be their primary role, just like someone who is a character designer could do work on monster designing or field designing, they have an expertise in a specific field but can definitely apply it to others, a map designer can do model design, which is why I have only compared it to doing headgear for the new races not battle content or anything else because that is very much outta their field of expertise with the most they could do is design how a dungeon looks etc.

If you read that part correctly I say it is their 'free time' I'm not demanding anything it is more along the lines of if I was a teacher at a college and i know someone in my class was just playing cards in their free time I would make the SUGGESTION that their time would be better spent on their work but I can't force them to do it, if they wanna spend that time playing cards that's on them, but I can question if that is a good decision. Same principle here the devs spent their 'free time' I am questioning if that time was well spent and am making a suggestion that I would've prefered it spent elsewhere. Wasn't meant to be a demand for that I apologise for poor choice of words on previous post.

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

Vanity items are not "glaring issues". If I /facepalm any harder I'm going to collapse my skull.

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Feel free to collapse i've seen way more people complain about lack of headgear/hairstyles on the new races with this expansion alone than I have seen people complain about no flight in ARR since HW, the community very much cares a lot about vanity items just look at 2B's butt fiasco, bringing the two new races to be on par with every other race is a glaring issue that they say 'we're working on it' but have done absolutely no showing the fact stuff that gets released this expansion is a would I or would I not be able to wear new X gear is a problem.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Do you think making flying available in the ARR zones just entails moving invisible barriers? Do you really think it is that easy? HW, SB, and ShB had their zones designed with the intention that mounts can fly there. That is not the case with ARR. They now have to go back to zones that already exist, and modify them. You might also want to take note that invisible barriers are not removed. They will still be in place, just differently to accommodate the changes.

The rest of your statement is why I brought up how allocation works in a previous post (you can't take five eggs from a basket that has only four). This metaphor is to express that no matter how many, or how few resources are allocated, that is the exact number that is not working on relevant content. No matter how much or how little time was spent on its development is the exact amount of time not spent on relevant content.

I am not sure I can make it any more clear than that. Questionable decisions like this one are very concerning.

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The facts seem to point to them doing this in order to improve new player retention.

Possibly we have lost content like Deep Dungeon this expansion because of it, but that doesn't make it pointless or questionable. Retaining new players is important, and obviously someone, somewhere in the chain of command, has decided it's more important than a new Deep Dungeon at this juncture.

I'm currently choosing to assume they know what they're doing; if the future proves otherwise, fair enough, but complaining because improving the new player experience (most people leave during 2.1 so being able to fly - alongside the quest trimming etc - should significantly help) means less content for you is rather selfish and not what I'd expect from you, given your usual thoughtful posts

This thread... I can't even.

Are people actually sitting in their chairs and judging what the devs do with their free time? Because it's not what they want them to do? Who are you to dictate what a human being does on their free time? Do you want your boss to turn out at your doorstep on you day off to tell you how to spend your time?

Imagine if that was someone's boss doing that. Oh boy that's not a good outlook on that boss now is it. if bosses can get away with behaving like that they will work you to death for the sake of profit. It's totally unacceptable for a boss to do that but now it's fine for a customer to do that? Because that's literally what some of you are doing right now. Look at yourselves. Listen at what you're saying. Think at what you are implying with your words.

"your free time is not meant to be used to relax and recover so you can tackle the task that will come next. No! it's meant to be used to continue working on stuff I want."

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

OK i'mma put it this way.

They decided to make female Viera and male Hrothgar from around 4.1, with me so far, so during their 'free time' from then to now they decided their 'free time' was better spent adding flying to ARR zones with whatever they decided to do with it (whether just moving Barriers to replacing models to suit a flying view) than work on getting as much headgear working for female Viera and male Hrothgar.

And you wonder why people might think this was a bad decision to do?

It's their 'free time' can do whatever they want to do with it but when glaring issues that could've been allieviated with said 'free time' are continously put aside for minor QoL people are going to question said decision.

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Imma put it this way as well

The community has brought up flying in ARR ever since flying was added in Heavensward. Heavensward came out in June 2015 unless my memory fails me. That means anywhere between then and now they could've started working on it.
Even vetereans admit that ARR is the weakest portion of this game. It's nothing new that people quit during ARR. A game to keep being succesful need to cater to new players, veterans, raiders, casuals, grinders alike. Yeah new players are also a group to be catered to. Especially if you don't want the game to die down. Shoker.

It's humanly impossible to cater to everyone at the same time hence patches sometimes cater to one crowd, then another. It's never perfectly balanced and sometimes some group will feel like they are being left behind. It sucks when your group doesn't get catered to. I can understand that.

Considering you think the same dev team should be able to add more hairstyles and heagears to your beloved Hrothgar let's roll with that shall we?

Updating the whole 19 maps will require work. It will take time. Imagine they started before the new races dropped. Then they realized the massive backslash because of no headgears.
That means they would've stopped updating the maps to work on adding some headgears. Also on their free time.

Did you forget that you even got anything because they also did it on their free time?

Regarding you saying that you would suggest the kid to do something else other than playing cards as a teacher... for you to even suggest you had to even know the kid was playing cards on its time off. Also it shoudn't be any of your business unless the kid is at risk of hurting himself or others (and then there's the debate that card games are actually good for socializing, improving maths and having to plan ahead. Very much like chess but chess doesn't get as much of a bad rep as card games for some reason.)

@Gemina
I'm reiterating what Elladie has said. Word by word.

In the end i guess you're right. I too question the usage of their free time. They should be relaxing instead of going the extra mile for us because what this thread is showing is that we are a bunch of entitled, whiny, judgy people and sure as Thal's balls we don't deserve it.

I think people who say it's a waste of time are missing that it likely means that the next expansion will feature some areas connected to/on top of/under/expanding/etc ARR areas, thus the need to update the ARR areas to be ready.

All over the ARR map are some cool areas you can see but can't get to, or they're a dungeon at most. The floating city was even the basis of the new Gold Saucer "Leap of Faith" course. Really there's a lot of cool ideas they could do. Gobbie underground! There are closed doors to nowhere here and there etc.

Rather than emptying out the countryside, it seems like part of the idea is that they want to make more use of it.

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Originally Posted by Waaltar

I think people who say it's a waste of time are missing that it likely means that the next expansion will feature some areas connected to/on top of/under/expanding/etc ARR areas, thus the need to update the ARR areas to be ready.

All over the ARR map are some cool areas you can see but can't get to, or they're a dungeon at most. The floating city was even the basis of the new Gold Saucer "Leap of Faith" course. Really there's a lot of cool ideas they could do. Gobbie underground! There are closed doors to nowhere here and there etc.

Rather than emptying out the countryside, it seems like part of the idea is that they want to make more use of it.

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That would be nice, but I don't see how it's "likely". Adding stuff like that would require yet another reworking of the maps, and this one was done as volunteer work. I don't recall any time they have gone back to add to maps on the clock. It would be nice to just be able to land on many of the high places in the current expansion maps.

I'm not against it, and I don't think they're waisting their time. Flying for flying sake just doesn't excite me. Adding stuff like this would.