SCH needs help

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

WHM Asylum has more healing over it's duration (800 potency vs 500 potency) with a plus healing modifier.

Throw in Temerance as well and you get the damage reduction with even more healing modifier.

---

Assylum 90 sec CD vs Soil 30 sec CD.
If you keep soil up you will have a total of 1500 potency heal in 90 sec.
So Soil is very strong compared to both Assylum and CU

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

WHM Asylum has more healing over it's duration (800 potency vs 500 potency) with a plus healing modifier.

Throw in Temerance as well and you get the damage reduction with even more healing modifier.

---

Assylum 90 sec CD vs Soil 30 sec CD.
If you keep soil up you will have a total of 1500 potency heal in 90 sec.
So Soil is very strong compared to both Assylum and CU

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

WHM Asylum has more healing over it's duration (800 potency vs 500 potency) with a plus healing modifier.

Throw in Temerance as well and you get the damage reduction with even more healing modifier.

---

You can use Sacred Soil three times for every Asylum and four times for every Temperance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobsmiaw

Assylum 90 sec CD vs Soil 30 sec CD.
If you keep soil up you will have a total of 1500 potency heal in 90 sec.
So Soil is very strong compared to both Assylum and CU

---

Yep. Soil is the best healing oGCD in the game, and they come up with rebuttals that don't make any sense.

Math is just hard for some I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by technole

Yep. Soil is the best healing oGCD in the game, and they come up with rebuttals that don't make any sense.

Math is just hard for some I guess.

---

If by 'best' you mean the one that can dish out the highest theoretical HPS over the whole fight, then yes.
By many other metrics (like efficiency) it is not.

And damn, you're right, math is hard. Hard to believe people think CU (0p DPS opportunity cost) could ever be better than SS (150p DPS opportunity cost).
After all, 0p > 150p.

...wait /s

Asylum is strongest but least frequent
CU is weakest but costs nothing
Soil is most frequent, but costs the most

Best is situational.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volkaj

If by 'best' you mean the one that can dish out the highest theoretical HPS over the whole fight, then yes.
By many other metrics (like efficiency) it is not.

And damn, you're right, math is hard. Hard to believe people think CU (0p DPS opportunity cost) could ever be better than SS (150p DPS opportunity cost).
After all, 0p > 150p.

...wait /s

---

Do you have any idea to solve this?

If you want SCH ogcd heal to cost less or 0 DPS:
1. Change ED to 0 damage and making it only for mp recovery tools. Then adjust SCH damage via Broil and Biolysis
Or
2. Change SCH ogcd heal into a regular healing CD (0 AF, maybe longer CD) like WHM and AST have

I believe both option will be rejected by majority of player.

Every healer has it plus and minus side:
WHM
+ Almost infinite MP, strong gcd, strong ogcd
- Long ogcd CD, no party dmg buff
SCH
+ Short ogcd CD, fairy free heal
- Weaker gcd, dmg loss whean using ogcd heal
AST
+ Free ogcd, party buff
- Lack of mp recovery, low pdps

Despite still (somehow) being a Scholar main, I’ll still admit that it really needs help play-style wise.

What I dislike most about Scholar is that so many of our abilities are useless most of the time.

Sacred Soil? Nope, better using Indomitability
Succor? Nope, better using Indomitability
Seraph? You guessed it, better using Indomitability.

I mean, it’s pretty telling that everyone kept asking for a ‘guaranteed crit shield’ ability, but then when we do get one we use it for literally anything but shields lol (aka Indomitability)

It’s like, why have spells/abilities like Physick, Adloquium, Succor, Sacred Soil, if they’re just going to make it so we’re losing out when we use them? Why not replace them with damage spells or w/e if they’re not going to make us heal with them lol.

Idk it’s like, I feel like if the devs just randomly decided to delete all of Scholar’s abilities except Lustrate, Indomitability, Excogitation and Seraph it’d play with the exact same efficiency as it does now and would still breeze through the majority of content.

I always liked the idea of Scholar having lots of equally weighted abilities whose strengths come out when use tactically rather than reactively. I’m not sure I like the idea of Scholar having one ‘super’ ability that always outdoes the rest.

Naturally, for single target healing it’s the exact same except you’re removing Physick/Adloquium from your hotbar in exchange for Lustrate/Excogitation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volkaj

If by 'best' you mean the one that can dish out the highest theoretical HPS over the whole fight, then yes.
By many other metrics (like efficiency) it is not.

And damn, you're right, math is hard. Hard to believe people think CU (0p DPS opportunity cost) could ever be better than SS (150p DPS opportunity cost).
After all, 0p > 150p.

...wait /s

---

There is no opportunity cost if there is no Astrologian in the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by technole

There is no opportunity cost if there is no Astrologian in the party.

---

When an option is chosen from alternatives, the opportunity cost is the "cost" incurred by not enjoying the benefit associated with the best alternative choice. The New Oxford American Dictionary defines it as "the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

If you use one AF on Sacred Soil, you lose on using Energy Drain (150p). Having an AST around doesn't change this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volkaj

If you use one AF on Sacred Soil, you lose on using Energy Drain (150p).

---

Ok sorry but, genuinely curious again. If the 150 potency loss is that significant, wouldn't it be better to just not use it and let your co-healer use their mitigation tool instead? Genuinely don't understand why this is an issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilseph

Ok sorry but, genuinely curious again. If the 150 potency loss is that significant, wouldn't it be better to just not use it and let your co-healer use their mitigation tool instead? Genuinely don't understand why this is an issue.

---

Assuming your cohealer's mitigation tool is available, does not need to be held for a later mechanic and more efficient, then yes you're better off not using SS, and let your cohealer use theirs.
Use the most efficient skills first.

This is essentially an optimization issue; you want to use the most effective healing/mitigation skill given the situation to maximize your party contribution.
But I was mainly replying to those saying that SS is the "best" healing/mitigation tool available. It is very good, but not without its costs.

In my opinion the best healing tool in the game is AST's Earthly Star (low-ish cooldown, huge heal, DPS gain without overshadowing the heal), and the best mitigation tool is Reprisal (low-ish cooldown, costs nothing to use, solid 10%).

As the presumptive shield healer with a guaranteed meta spot, I'm not sure why this thread exists. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Side-Eye

As the presumptive shield healer with a guaranteed meta spot, I'm not sure why this thread exists. :)

---

Scholar is not "meta".
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...lercombineddps
We have more variety at any type of level right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KDSilver

Scholar is not "meta".
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...lercombineddps
We have more variety at any type of level right now.

---

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/33#class=Healers

I can't find old statistics, but I think it's actually less variety than used to be in Stormblood, even White Mage didn't have such a trailing adoption rate relative to Astrologian now. The point of balance isn't to make classes mathematically equal, it's to make sure they're all viable and desired enough so that players don't get locked out. It's ironic that they've made the classes more mathematically balanced than ever but created such a desire imbalance at the same time that the results aren't really any better than they've ever been.

Scholar is a very well represented class which is currently in a close 2nd for representation with third place being distant.

I do not think that Astrologian should be buffed to bring up its numbers, either. The low representation is pretty clearly coming from gameplay dislikes, not from a lack of power.

Scholar is a class that's being used frequently and with good result. Players in this thread looking for Scholar buffs arguing with numbers are asking to be placed solidly at the top again and lock out other healers at this point rather than asking because they feel a need to stop getting kicked from party finder groups for playing a bad class. This is counter to the reasoning they made all of these changes to begin with.

I don't really care if SCH is top dog or bottom bitch, tbh. I just want SCH to be fun to play and to feel good to use again. I want my DPS abilities back and I want my fairy to both feel impactful and to feel like it's more than just a glorified oGCD that doesn't work half the damn time. (I also want my 2 separate fairies to do 2 different things. If SMN got to keep Titan, and he was reworked to be a bit more useful, while still kind of niche,I don't see why they couldn't do the same for Selene instead of just making her EOS) numbers are whatever. If broil had a potency of 700 and SCH was laughably OP I still wouldn't enjoy the class, because it wouldn't change things like using broil over 100 times in a Savage fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Billythepancake

I don't really care if SCH is top dog or bottom bitch, tbh. I just want SCH to be fun to play and to feel good to use again. I want my DPS abilities back and I want my fairy to both feel impactful and to feel like it's more than just a glorified oGCD that doesn't work half the damn time. (I also want my 2 separate fairies to do 2 different things. If SMN got to keep Titan, and he was reworked to be a bit more useful, while still kind of niche,I don't see why they couldn't do the same for Selene instead of just making her EOS) numbers are whatever. If broil had a potency of 700 and SCH was laughably OP I still wouldn't enjoy the class, because it wouldn't change things like using broil over 100 times in a Savage fight.

---

I agree completely.. Scholar used to be the sort of healer that was fun enough to play that when I started playing, I finished Stormblood completely without even trying Summoner and didn't seriously try a DPS for the entire expansion. It was fun to play just about anywhere. The DPS skills were enough to feel varied but not overwhelming to distract you from your primary role, it was really good design.. Having to place your fairy, choose which one to use and also getting immediate response off of skills made the central class mechanic also much more engaging to use than it is now.

Now we have two healers that have lost a lot of joy in Shadowbringers, participation numbers are just as skewed as ever, and people are still fighting on the forums over nuances between skills.

I'd really like to "hope" dev would somehow "remake" scholar as something close to what is used to be in HW-SB.
But his old gameplay looks to be dead forever.
Sadly