More Options for Character Growth

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Originally Posted by Falcus

Guild Wars failed?

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It failed as an MMO, yes.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yet there's still people begging to turn this game into WoW. What's your point, honestly? There's more "No FFXI!" than there is "No WoW!" with this community lol. It's like the american civil war, 2 MMOs by the same company yet XIV hates hate and want nothing to do with XI.

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Game is turning into WoW without people asking for it.

It seem pretty clear to me what Yoshi-p wants from this game.

You just make that rubbish up about people hating FF11, you seem to think I hate it when I don't, I just prefer a more streamlined experience, something which FF11 is not.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You just make that rubbish up about people hating FF11, you seem to think I hate it when I don't, I just prefer a more streamlined experience, something which FF11 is not.

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Kind of like you stated I don't play WoW?

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Originally Posted by Falcus

Guild Wars failed? Well I never. (the game had hundreds of thousands if not millions of potential skill setups and stat assignment further increased how much customisation you had)

I haven't played any other game with more battle customisation though so I dunno if there are other ones with even more ridiculously over the top battle customisation (the game had 1,319 skills for crying out loud! And you could only equip 8 at a time)

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To every FFXI hardcore fan out there like Elexia, every MMO besides XI has failed. This includes WOW and it's 10M players that make Blizzard laugh at the competition while they roll themselves in cash and build themselves coin pools to dive in a la uncle scrooge. But don't let numbers and popularity fool you, they mean nothing apparently.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Kind of like you stated I don't play WoW?

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Well for all I know you still don't, but I will take your word for it and stand corrected. /happynow?

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

To every FFXI hardcore fan out there like Elexia, every MMO besides XI has failed. This includes WOW and it's 10M players that make Blizzard laugh at the competition while they roll themselves in cash and build themselves coin pools to dive in a la uncle scrooge. But don't let numbers and popularity fool you, they mean nothing apparently.

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Lol. Onidemon, I was trying to be nice but you truly are a moron. Guildwars is well known to not be a typical MMORPG, so of course it did fail as an MMORPG. It was a nice instanced online game though.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Lol. Onidemon, I was trying to be nice but you truly are a moron. Guildwars is well known to not be a typical MMORPG, so of course it did fail as an MMORPG. It was a nice instanced online game though.

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They both attract very similar if not the same crowd of gamers though.

GW2 is a complete MMO, because GW1 players asked for it not to be instanced, lets see how popular that will be, because as it stands it looks to be the best offering so far as modern MMO's go.

It really doesn't make a blind bit of difference at this point how many subscriptions this game has because its all changing in 2.0, I am truly excited for this game in 2.0 because Yoshi-p is taking it in a more modern direction.

I would like to see them bring certain aspect of 11 over like LFP icon, level sync etc though.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

The both attract very similar if not the same crowd of gamers though.

GW2 is a complete MMO, because GW1 players asked for it, lets see how popular that will be, because as it stands it looks to be the best offering so far as modern MMO's go.

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Indeed. Since so far there hasn't really been much for new MMOs that didn't ride on one particular thing but every thing else was lacking, i.e Tera and SWTOR.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Well my point was that in WOW your DK can be a tank yes but can also be a DPS without being any good at tanking. It's your choice. It doesnt make your DK do anything out of the ordinary or changes him into something that is not even a DK anymore. Yes if you want to tank with a DK then you need a specific tree setup to do it the right way. But if you dont want to tank then you can also do that and concentrate on DPS. In XIV your PLD will always be a tank no matter what you do. If you want good DPS then you are forced to go with a different class/job. In WOW PLD can be just as good at tanking than DPS.

True that at the beggining of XIV the armory system was too open and ended up making classes that heal or tank who shouldnt be able to. So yes we do need restriction but customization, in a controlled way is very good. Cookie cutter gets old fast.

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What you're saying its only a name problem, you want to be a paladin even if you are a healear, in Final Fantsy we have names for everything, by the way this are only the first jobs later in 2.0 we were promised to have a few more and every expansion we get several jobs... for example a red mage wears a shield and sword but cast buff and debuffs and heals too, does good damage and can sustain certain amount of damage better than mage classes, so get just to get a name for every role not something like healer paladin, more like white mage, red mage so at the moment u see the job/class name you know for what are they for....

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Lol. Onidemon, I was trying to be nice but you truly are a moron. Guildwars is well known to not be a typical MMORPG, so of course it did fail as an MMORPG. It was a nice instanced online game though.

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So because a game is not a TYPICAL mmo then it fails? Got it. Is that why they are doing a 2nd one and that already a million people signed up for the beta? How many people signed up to XIV beta which is the sequel to the super successful FFXI? right...

http://www.vg247.com/2012/02/25/one-...d-wars-2-beta/

Btw, you and Jennestia would get along very well.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

To every FFXI hardcore fan out there like Elexia, every MMO besides XI has failed. This includes WOW and it's 10M players that make Blizzard laugh at the competition while they roll themselves in cash and build themselves coin pools to dive in a la uncle scrooge. But don't let numbers and popularity fool you, they mean nothing apparently.

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I hope they don't try diving into a pool of gold. That stuff's not liquid and will kill them if they try to dive in Q_Q

On topic. Yes, Guild Wars wasn't exactly a typical open MMO but it was still considered one. (though I always though of it as an online RPG)
The fact of the matter though. It had a ridiculous amount of skills, was online and didn't fail.
Plus it was the best example of a ridiculous amount of combat customisation in a game that didn't fail that I could think of.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

So because a game is not a TYPICAL mmo then it fails? Got it. Is that why they are doing a 2nd one and that already a million people signed up for the beta? How many people signed up to XIV beta which is the sequel to the super successful FFXI? right...

http://www.vg247.com/2012/02/25/one-...d-wars-2-beta/

Btw, you and Jennestia would get along very well.

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We do, I'm in her LS in XIV lol, known her since her noob days on Kujata. It failed as an MMO but not as an online game. So being marketed as an MMO was very misleading, hence why it would be seen as a failure in the light of MMORPGs, but it wasn't a bad game at all, you just can't really put it in the "MMORPG" genre back when it was released, now there's so many sub genres to the MMORPG world it doesn't even matter the classification.

I always enjoy customization. But to be honest, there will always be the "best" set of gear, or choice of skills. And there will be elitists that only see that. They're not wrong, it's how they play. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

And WoW was really a terrible example. Before I quit playing last year they had streamlined new player areas, chopped up the talent tree, and removed skills that weren't used in the 'end game'. It's really bland and only getting worse.

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Originally Posted by Zelkelion

And WoW was really a terrible example. Before I quit playing last year they had streamlined new player areas, chopped up the talent tree, and removed skills that weren't used in the 'end game'. It's really bland and only getting worse.

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Yep. This is why I say just let them do their thing with the job system. We've only seen one part of it and stlll don't even have the Job+Job combinations yet. Anyone that played any of the job based FF games would know there's a lot of potential to be had and why a talent tree really won't do much for a game like this.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yep. This is why I say just let them do their thing with the job system. We've only seen one part of it and stlll don't even have the Job+Job combinations yet. Anyone that played any of the job based FF games would know there's a lot of potential to be had and why a talent tree really won't do much for a game like this.

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Oh, completely agree with this btw. Not a fan of the talent tree however.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

We do, I'm in her LS in XIV lol, known her since her noob days on Kujata. It failed as an MMO but not as an online game. So being marketed as an MMO was very misleading, hence why it would be seen as a failure in the light of MMORPGs, but it wasn't a bad game at all, you just can't really put it in the "MMORPG" genre back when it was released, now there's so many sub genres to the MMORPG world it doesn't even matter the classification.

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"Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world."

Didn't know you were given the task of changing and deciding what the definition of a MMO is. Good to know.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

"Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world." Didn't know you were given the task of changing and deciding what the definition of a MMO is. Good to know.

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Dear god, it's well accepted that GW wasn't a typical style MMO at the time and couldn't be classified as one. Usually MMORPGs, AT THE TIME (read this) was more about open world settings and everything happening in an overworld type design, GW wasn't exactly like that, hence why GW2 they're making it a typical MMORPG style.

You know what else classifies as an MMO? Cityville and Farmville, which if I recall correctly, you said can't be compared to WoW and FFXIV, so try your definition game elsewhere. :)

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Dear god, it's well accepted that GW wasn't a typical style MMO at the time and couldn't be classified as one. Usually MMORPGs, AT THE TIME (read this) was more about open world settings and everything happening in an overworld type design, GW wasn't exactly like that, hence why GW2 they're making it a typical MMORPG style.

You know what else classifies as an MMO? Cityville and Farmville, which if I recall correctly, you said can't be compared to WoW and FFXIV, so try your definition game elsewhere. :)

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We are not talking MMO here, which does include games like farmville and even some FPS. we are talking about MMORPG. Which is what Guild wars and XIV or WOW are. Typical is YOUR definition and not what a MMORPG HAS to be. They are making it open world because fans asked for it not because they wanted to fit Ms. Elexia's personal definition of the genre.

Seriously aren't you ashamed of always being wrong? stop talking.

I have always considered both GW2 and PSO/U/2 to be MORPGs, there isn't much difference really IMO.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I have always considered both GW2 and PSO/U/2 to be MORPGs, there isn't much difference really IMO.

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That's because they all are MMORPGs. :)

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Bringing good ideas that work well is great and i don't care where it is from. I'm against pple wanting ideas from other games just for the sake of making XIV feel like that other game. Like gear swap... there's a bunch of threads about it, 99% are against it, S-E says they will not do it. Yet some hardcore XI fans keep begging for it.

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Yeah this is a little OT but that gear swap response we got was actually trash too. Gave us the typical "well XIV is based on an armoury system so switching weapons would switch jobs" mess.. How about we can jus swap armor? Or maybe only swapping JSE? Nope, they jus railroaded the whole thing (which I'm sure pleased all those against it..) with a "oh that won't work here..". Actually, creating your gear swap builds correctly would add more customization and specialization too! Ok, now back OT..

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Seriously aren't you ashamed of always being wrong? stop talking.

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Wasn't it you who said that someone needs to grow up? lol.

By the way:

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Originally Posted by Elexia

now there's so many sub genres to the MMORPG world it doesn't even matter the classification.

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Yeah it does suck always being wrong, eh Oni?

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Originally Posted by Exni

Yeah this is a little OT but that gear swap response we got was actually trash too. Gave us the typical "well XIV is based on an armoury system so switching weapons would switch jobs" mess.. How about we can jus swap armor? Or maybe only swapping JSE? Nope, they jus railroaded the whole thing (which I'm sure pleased all those against it..) with a "oh that won't work here..". Actually, creating your gear swap builds correctly would add more customization and specialization too! Ok, now back OT..

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I find there were a lot more people saying that it is just a bad concept and that they wouldn't want to be forced to carry extra gear to be considered good players. S-E anyways said they wouldn't do it and that they wouldnt change their minds either so i dont see the point in asking for it again or making a petition.

Just like this thread here. There used to be a lot of similar threads in the beggining but now pple seems to be satisfied with the current system so im not gonna start the same subject again next week.

*Looks at last few pages*

Boy, this thread hasn't derailed completely or anything...

I wouldn't mind some type of merit system etc. Allowing players to spend points to enhance certain skills. Heck, you could bring back AP, and award it for crafting/killing mobs. It would be a low number, 1 or 2, but you could get gear that increased this rate.

Then, you could spend it on leveling up skills. Reducing cast time, increasing damage, etc. There are a lot of possibilities. Sure it's something else to "level" and this might not be the solution. But it would add to the cap. The question is would AP be class exclusive, or could you use it across all classes, thus allowing you to merit other classes while playing your main, or vise versa.

The other question I would have for this idea is, would it start at 50, or start at a lower level. Really I don't know. But if SE is to do something, I'm excited to see what that is. They have such a rich history of different ideas. :)

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Originally Posted by Phobos

*Looks at last few pages*

Boy, this thread hasn't derailed completely or anything...

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i concur with that.

lol give a break to devs they having a great deal try to turning game sistem into something usefull and interesting and some people
just giving a hard time asking: i want this, why we dont have this, and but they have this lol this is soo lame
think on something totaly new. and posted and im sure they will like the idea.. but telling they to (select FFXI folder) copy ...... paste and overright (FFXIV folder) this is not what this forums are for bros lets take it easy.


yoshi-p pls keep goin the way you goin we belive on we can make it true

pls focus on whats coming ahead new map new grefics disg we goin to lol@ wow we playing the first game 3d and full HD MMO on the market just give then the time they asked for make the change into 2.0 and if they fail.

we just leave and back to ffxi. guys i played ffxi for 8years and i think here we have potential. first

NO job tree.....
this goin to destroid the fundamentals of the game.
dev quoted ( ff games alow players to try all ingame connten and options jobs skills and abilitys to let you decide what fits you.....
look game progress into a tree sistem will goin totaly in opoccion to this.... well forgetme my broken english. but i dont like use google traslate to post i just explain thing the best way i can.

we have to many changes incoming and too much things to do lets work together for make something REALLY EPIC.....

True constructive arguments are hard to come by on here.

You have too many immature souls who are just out to prove their own personal opinion, and are not open to criticism from others.

If we want more customization, I'd offer an XIV-version of Aion's own stigma system (best ever, IMO).

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It failed as an MMO, yes.

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I didn't even know it qualified as an MMO, I remember the devs just calling it an online RPG.

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Originally Posted by nasomi

Know what's neat about ffxiv? It's not wow.

Your character is not a clone of the next 50blm, unless you're a clone of the person controlling that other 50blm. This is where the importance of a neat little concept called "player skill" comes in. Look at life, the best racecar drivers don't win because one drives backwards, another drives sideways, and two do barrel rolls. They win because everyone drives forward, around a track, but someone does it a little better. Even among the best the difference in skill is minimal, because of the practice. Then there's the idiot bringing up the tail end of the pack because he has no idea what he's doing, probably because he went out and had all his jobs PL'd to 50. He's not THAT much worse than the other drivers, but there is an undeniable difference between how fast they switch from nukes to enfeebling, and don't randomly cast the wrong spell or mis-negotiate a turn.

And then there's the "but it's a game, it's not THAT hard". No, and neither is starcraft, yet your ass gets zerg rushed everything so you ragequit. Experience(irl) makes a difference.

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ffxiv requires skill. right.

After reading the OP my first thought was some kind of job master or class mastery merit system.

Personally I am always partial to the systems that after you reach cap allow you to gain points with XP. Starting with a very low cost, and scaling in cost for each point. The poinst then used to by specific stat upgrades, Job master abilities that can be achieved only with JM abilities, or purchases that allow for expansions to already existong abilities.

Just an idea from some previous MMOs with decent systems I liked.

Ok so my initial reaction to this post was kind of *facepalm* "For real?"

But I suppose I'll try and contribute in this discussion rather than get irriatated because this post seems a bit ridiculous to me.

First off, the job/class structure in this game is very different from WoW. In WoW you create your character, you choose a class and then you have the option to invest into a specific Skill Tree that defines your role. If you wake up tomorrow, log on and decide hey, I don't want to be a healer anymore, I want to be a tank! You're likely going to have to roll a new character because you don't have the option of changing classes altogether, and your options in the Skill Tree may not provide the changes you need to be a viable tank.

Well FFXIV and XI are not designed this way at all. Your "character" is not defined by which ever class you happen to be at that moment, you are free to change your class/job as often as you like to suit whatever play style you are looking for.

I know its easy to say that more customization would be nice and to suggest something like a Skill Tree, but the idea behind a Skill Tree is to provide a job/class with different options in terms of what role you would like to play. This system only really works with a system like WoW or SWTOR where you cannot change your job/class and doesn't really fit in with the Armory System.

I'll use SWTOR as an example as I have not played WoW. I played a Jedi Consular in SWTOR, and had the option (via Skill Trees) of being a Healer, DPS or Balanced. But that was it. If I decided I wanted to be a Trooper all of a sudden, I could not. I was limited to that class and the options in my Skill Tree. From this perspective, to me XIV seems to have way more options, I can be anything I want at anytime. And I'm sure there are ways they could mess with the current Armory system and Job systems to try and implement something similar to SWTOT/WoW, but I personally don't see how it could work with how this system is currently set up.

As for the augment that with XIV's system you are forced to play a specific way or you're considered a noob. That is every MMO. No amount of customization or options will changes the fact that MMO players will always figure out what is the most effective setup for each role and expect that people use that. There is literally no way to avoid this.

And Lastly, I personally think there is a ton of customization options. With Classes you can still cross class a lot of skills and can create a very diverse play style if you so choose. Jobs are less flexible and hold a more defined and specific role in battle, but that was intentional.

If you are truly unhappy with the game's system you might be out of luck, I don't really ever see things heading in the direction you are hoping they will. With the info they have given us, and the revisions they have made to the system, I personally feel that that system we have is great, but it seems as though you might be looking for something else entirely.

You just did a couple times, you're costing yourself points in your own system.... fail.

Well, dunno if this comentary will fit this topic but, something i hate is once someone beats a dungeon/raid or an avatar fight or X-Notorious Monster, they post their strategy on lets say youtube, and then everyone do it the exact same way, ok ok.... understandable, people want to do what everyone else has done before as if it were an attempt of a "REPLAY VIDEO" of what others already did, ok, its understandable people want to do so so they win.... but come on, most of the dungeons/raids and even the avatar fights seems to be developed to be done it that way until they became easier to do... i meant come on i want play a game where you can use multiple strategies to beat a certain "event" since the begining, i hate the idea to have watch what others did and do it exactly as they did :/, i dont meant make the fights easier, i meant make it so they can be done more than 1 way, it gets old fast that you have to bring same party setup again and again without other party setup until the fight gets easier to do after some updates later *angry* :<

My point is, make content be able to be done in multiple diferent ways with diferent party setups, like lets say, a dungeon with diferent objetives that change agree to the party setup,without lose dificulty. i do rather have more of that than more character cutomization, i want be playing a game where i did used my brains and win the fight cause my own merits, i want a game where the most important point you are diferent from other gamers is your way to play the game than how your character looks like....

As right now, things are most likely "whoever first defeats the dungeon sets the way to do it afterwards until it gets easier over time" that shouldnt be like that, i often have the issue where i get LS/party leaders to tell me "go to this web adress watch the video and lets do it that way"... i really hate that, i want play my own way! i want find a way to beat the respective event cause my own merits,i dont want to do the dungeon the same way every damn time as others did before me only cause they won first, not the way someone else did only cause they did beat it before me and everyone want win so they force us do it that way, this is really sad at certain point.

I was going to make CamAlch's post but it's not needed, I agree 100% with him, Talent trees define roles of gameplay that are defined by class or jobchange in FFXIV.
That means that actually FFXIV provides more gameplay diversity for the player from what WoW does atm.

Ill quote his post cause he is right on this aspect:

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Originally Posted by CamAlch

Ok so my initial reaction to this post was kind of *facepalm* "For real?"

But I suppose I'll try and contribute in this discussion rather than get irriatated because this post seems a bit ridiculous to me.

First off, the job/class structure in this game is very different from WoW. In WoW you create your character, you choose a class and then you have the option to invest into a specific Skill Tree that defines your role. If you wake up tomorrow, log on and decide hey, I don't want to be a healer anymore, I want to be a tank! You're likely going to have to roll a new character because you don't have the option of changing classes altogether, and your options in the Skill Tree may not provide the changes you need to be a viable tank.

Well FFXIV and XI are not designed this way at all. Your "character" is not defined by which ever class you happen to be at that moment, you are free to change your class/job as often as you like to suit whatever play style you are looking for.

I know its easy to say that more customization would be nice and to suggest something like a Skill Tree, but the idea behind a Skill Tree is to provide a job/class with different options in terms of what role you would like to play. This system only really works with a system like WoW or SWTOR where you cannot change your job/class and doesn't really fit in with the Armory System.

I'll use SWTOR as an example as I have not played WoW. I played a Jedi Consular in SWTOR, and had the option (via Skill Trees) of being a Healer, DPS or Balanced. But that was it. If I decided I wanted to be a Trooper all of a sudden, I could not. I was limited to that class and the options in my Skill Tree. From this perspective, to me XIV seems to have way more options, I can be anything I want at anytime. And I'm sure there are ways they could mess with the current Armory system and Job systems to try and implement something similar to SWTOT/WoW, but I personally don't see how it could work with how this system is currently set up.

As for the augment that with XIV's system you are forced to play a specific way or you're considered a noob. That is every MMO. No amount of customization or options will changes the fact that MMO players will always figure out what is the most effective setup for each role and expect that people use that. There is literally no way to avoid this.

And Lastly, I personally think there is a ton of customization options. With Classes you can still cross class a lot of skills and can create a very diverse play style if you so choose. Jobs are less flexible and hold a more defined and specific role in battle, but that was intentional.

If you are truly unhappy with the game's system you might be out of luck, I don't really ever see things heading in the direction you are hoping they will. With the info they have given us, and the revisions they have made to the system, I personally feel that that system we have is great, but it seems as though you might be looking for something else entirely.

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Originally Posted by CamAlch

Ok so my initial reaction to this post was kind of *facepalm* "For real?"

But I suppose I'll try and contribute in this discussion rather than get irriatated because this post seems a bit ridiculous to me.

First off, the job/class structure in this game is very different from WoW. In WoW you create your character, you choose a class and then you have the option to invest into a specific Skill Tree that defines your role. If you wake up tomorrow, log on and decide hey, I don't want to be a healer anymore, I want to be a tank! You're likely going to have to roll a new character because you don't have the option of changing classes altogether, and your options in the Skill Tree may not provide the changes you need to be a viable tank.

Well FFXIV and XI are not designed this way at all. Your "character" is not defined by which ever class you happen to be at that moment, you are free to change your class/job as often as you like to suit whatever play style you are looking for.

I know its easy to say that more customization would be nice and to suggest something like a Skill Tree, but the idea behind a Skill Tree is to provide a job/class with different options in terms of what role you would like to play. This system only really works with a system like WoW or SWTOR where you cannot change your job/class and doesn't really fit in with the Armory System.

I'll use SWTOR as an example as I have not played WoW. I played a Jedi Consular in SWTOR, and had the option (via Skill Trees) of being a Healer, DPS or Balanced. But that was it. If I decided I wanted to be a Trooper all of a sudden, I could not. I was limited to that class and the options in my Skill Tree. From this perspective, to me XIV seems to have way more options, I can be anything I want at anytime. And I'm sure there are ways they could mess with the current Armory system and Job systems to try and implement something similar to SWTOT/WoW, but I personally don't see how it could work with how this system is currently set up.

As for the augment that with XIV's system you are forced to play a specific way or you're considered a noob. That is every MMO. No amount of customization or options will changes the fact that MMO players will always figure out what is the most effective setup for each role and expect that people use that. There is literally no way to avoid this.

And Lastly, I personally think there is a ton of customization options. With Classes you can still cross class a lot of skills and can create a very diverse play style if you so choose. Jobs are less flexible and hold a more defined and specific role in battle, but that was intentional.

If you are truly unhappy with the game's system you might be out of luck, I don't really ever see things heading in the direction you are hoping they will. With the info they have given us, and the revisions they have made to the system, I personally feel that that system we have is great, but it seems as though you might be looking for something else entirely.

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The ways I kind of sees FFXIV is that you can switch to your ALT character with minimal hassle. You have access to any of the ALTs you invested in such as the tank, the attacker, the healer, or the buffer without having to leave the party, re-travel to the location, or progress through the dungeon as a different character.

And then going back to someone earlier that was speaking of skill separating the players apart being the level of customization. I think of individual player skill and team synergy outside of character customization.

Using Street Fighter as an example. Ryu and Ken used to play exactly identical. You chose your character model (Ryu or Ken) and only skill separated you. As additional Shotokan fighters arrived, you had variations within the fighting style. With Ryu, Ken, Evil Ryu, Akuma, and well... maybe even Sean, Sakura, and Dan (ha!). You have an extra layer of customization in a sense of how you wanted to use the Shotokan style. And skill level still represents how well you can utilize and enforce your tools to any given situation.

I likes what Delmonty and Coglin have mentioned in regards to the merit system. Some extra layer of alternate advancement that goes on top. Should materia branch out to cover traits that we can add on (i.e. reduced cooldown of ability X, increase in ability effectiveness, reduced cost of ability, added effect to ability, etc.) then that would also be the goods.

OP need to read YoshiP Post ^^
2 or more job for each class coming in 2.0

anyway u can already do... WAR tank? Rampage. WAR DPS? Berserk
Monk? Kite - dps - off-tank
White? Buffer (with equip VIT) - Healer (with equip MND)
Black? DPS or CC
Dragoon? maybe the only pure dd
brd? dps sub-healer/buffer
pld? tank

enough?
please learn your class as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CamAlch

Ok so my initial reaction to this post was kind of *facepalm* "For real?"

But I suppose I'll try and contribute in this discussion rather than get irriatated because this post seems a bit ridiculous to me.

First off, the job/class structure in this game is very different from WoW. In WoW you create your character, you choose a class and then you have the option to invest into a specific Skill Tree that defines your role. If you wake up tomorrow, log on and decide hey, I don't want to be a healer anymore, I want to be a tank! You're likely going to have to roll a new character because you don't have the option of changing classes altogether, and your options in the Skill Tree may not provide the changes you need to be a viable tank.

Well FFXIV and XI are not designed this way at all. Your "character" is not defined by which ever class you happen to be at that moment, you are free to change your class/job as often as you like to suit whatever play style you are looking for.

I know its easy to say that more customization would be nice and to suggest something like a Skill Tree, but the idea behind a Skill Tree is to provide a job/class with different options in terms of what role you would like to play. This system only really works with a system like WoW or SWTOR where you cannot change your job/class and doesn't really fit in with the Armory System.

I'll use SWTOR as an example as I have not played WoW. I played a Jedi Consular in SWTOR, and had the option (via Skill Trees) of being a Healer, DPS or Balanced. But that was it. If I decided I wanted to be a Trooper all of a sudden, I could not. I was limited to that class and the options in my Skill Tree. From this perspective, to me XIV seems to have way more options, I can be anything I want at anytime. And I'm sure there are ways they could mess with the current Armory system and Job systems to try and implement something similar to SWTOT/WoW, but I personally don't see how it could work with how this system is currently set up.

As for the augment that with XIV's system you are forced to play a specific way or you're considered a noob. That is every MMO. No amount of customization or options will changes the fact that MMO players will always figure out what is the most effective setup for each role and expect that people use that. There is literally no way to avoid this.

And Lastly, I personally think there is a ton of customization options. With Classes you can still cross class a lot of skills and can create a very diverse play style if you so choose. Jobs are less flexible and hold a more defined and specific role in battle, but that was intentional.

If you are truly unhappy with the game's system you might be out of luck, I don't really ever see things heading in the direction you are hoping they will. With the info they have given us, and the revisions they have made to the system, I personally feel that that system we have is great, but it seems as though you might be looking for something else entirely.

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I only mentioned WOW as an example as everyone is familiar with it but by no means i was suggesting we use the same system. I would much rather S-E make a system unique to FFXIV. Also i'd like to correct you on something. In WOW you got something called Dual spec. You can make 2 different trees and then switch between them to change your role. You can also go see your trainer and unlearn all your points and reallocate them. So no, you don't need to change classes or re-roll a character. That's the beauty of it, you can play the class you like and have the option of multiple roles to chose from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Momita

OP need to read YoshiP Post ^^
2 or more job for each class coming in 2.0

anyway u can already do... WAR tank? Rampage. WAR DPS? Berserk
Monk? Kite - dps - off-tank
White? Buffer (with equip VIT) - Healer (with equip MND)
Black? DPS or CC
Dragoon? maybe the only pure dd
brd? dps sub-healer/buffer
pld? tank

enough?
please learn your class as well

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I fail to see how boosting stats changes a class's role..... Unless stats open up new abilities then i don't see how it can make you do anything different.