Viera head gear -_-

Going to bump this thread rather than start a new one, but the Valentines event is out, and oh look, no Viera/Hrothgar to be seen in any screenshots. Want to bet 500 gil neither race will be able to wear the hat?

(An online model viewer confirms the answer is yes, no hats for them)

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Originally Posted by Xiomara

Going to bump this thread rather than start a new one, but the Valentines event is out, and oh look, no Viera/Hrothgar to be seen in any screenshots. Want to bet 500 gil neither race will be able to wear the hat?

(An online model viewer confirms the answer is yes, no hats for them)

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Viera and Hrothgar just do not get hats/ helms that cover the top of their heads

Would be better for your mental to not expect them to suddenly change that.

Can you all please stop with all negativity. There is only certain amount of space in garage to work in, they cant do everything! >.<

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Viera and Hrothgar just do not get hats/ helms that cover the top of their heads

Would be better for your mental to not expect them to suddenly change that.

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Then if they can't do it they should stop making event items a portion of there players can't use. They easily could of done side bows. glasses or anything that wasn't a hat for this set that made it so everyone could wear it.

Lets not ignore the complete lack of any updates on hair unlocks for viera where the rest of the community got 2 since 5.0. Lets not ignore that hrothgar have got to pay real money to switch there hair choices. Lets not ignore that they claim there removing gender locks but these items are gender locked.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Can you all please stop with all negativity. There is only certain amount of space in garage to work in, they cant do everything! >.<

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People are upset. There allowed to be angry that once again event items have an unfair bias against the new races. Just because it doesn't effect you means the people it does effect can't be upset and voice there opinon about it cause as mentions above is still an issue.

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Originally Posted by Kogekigami

Then if they can't do it they should stop making event items a portion of there players can't use. They easily could of done side bows. glasses or anything that wasn't a hat for this set that made it so everyone could wear it.

Lets not ignore the complete lack of any updates on hair unlocks for viera where the rest of the community got 2 since 5.0. Lets not ignore that hrothgar have got to pay real money to switch there hair choices. Lets not ignore that they claim there removing gender locks but these items are gender locked.

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So everyone should now miss out on traditional hats n helms from events and settle for bows and glasses just cause Viera and Hrothgar can't wear them and don't want to feel left out?

And lets not ignore that YP straight up told us that yes, they are working on new Viera hair and Hrothgar manes and faces BUT they would come at a slower pace than reg races (aka After other races have new hair). Not counting the SHB release hair the only new hair we've gotten has been the most recent big patch. NOW is the only real time the clock starts cause they wouldn't be coming before or at the same time as other race's hairs according to what we've been told.

Also looking at their statements in chronological order I think it's best to assume the latest statement is the current direction ... as in Viera are getting only unique hair. (So I'm not sure what you meant by "hair unlocks")

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

So everyone should now miss out on traditional hats n helms from events and settle for bows and glasses just cause Viera and Hrothgar can't wear them and don't want to feel left out?

And lets not ignore that YP straight up told us that yes, they are working on new Viera hair and Hrothgar manes and faces BUT they would come at a slower pace than reg races (aka After other races have new hair). Not counting the SHB release hair the only new hair we've gotten has been the most recent big patch. NOW is the only real time the clock starts cause they wouldn't be coming before or at the same time as other race's hairs according to what we've been told.

Also looking at their statements in chronological order I think it's best to assume the latest statement is the current direction ... as in Viera are getting only unique hair. (So I'm not sure what you meant by "hair unlocks")

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Maybe not the heavenstrum but heck why not bandannas or just let it clip. No one ever said heavenstrum had to be a helmate. They could be creative and change it up. *shrug* At the end of the day they chose to implement restrictions to the races they made they should work around them to include the races they made.

For the valentines event items there was easy work arounds. We have enough hat items. The game is lacking in cute hair accessories like side bows. I know quite a lot of people who would love more items other then hats that don't lock out races.

As for hairs. They said they would release hairs for Viera and hrothgar with hair released for the others. There's been 2 since patch. 5.0 and the firament one. Both have no excuse for not working on viera as viera have similar heads to elezen. Modders have proven it is not hard to shape hair for viera especially if it can fit Miqo'te. Also I'm sure everyone who is getting upset over the situation would be at ease if we had some communication showing it was being worked on. But we have had nothing. No word on it. Now with several hairs and items being released which lock out the two new races its rather insulting when were told to calm down.

I recently switched to Au Ra from Viera and I am like omg, these cute hats (I never wear headgear but I am starting to like the little caps and things). My only issue is Au Ra females have these big "dead eyes" that kinda stare blankly where I find the Viera eyes to have more life behind them so I prolly will switch back.

It is hard to ignore that Viera and Hrothgar can't access the items and hair. I understand why they won't go back and redo all the old hairstyles for Viera/Hrothgar but they could at least make the new ones they are making accessible.

I joined FFXIV for the Viera. Changed to Au Ra to check out the head gear and other wearables. I am surprised how upsetting it is, for me, not to be able to wear some hats on the Viera. My feeling really surprised me. I'd like to go back to Viera but am having a difficult time switching back because of no hats. Not having 5.2 be wearable by Viera is kinda grrrrr. Anyroads, I came for Viera, staying for Au ra. For now. Still, Viera is calling, calling callin....

It's not clear to me what the stance is on head gear and I'll leave that for SE to decide and the forums to debate.

I finished the 5.0 trial yesterday and my eyes were kinda leaky. I was moved.

This game is fantastic. Kudos to everyone that made this game happen. Just truly awesome.

Edit: I changed to Viera.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Can you all please stop with all negativity. There is only certain amount of space in garage to work in, they cant do everything! >.<

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I hope this is sarcasm.

It is not unreasonable to expect all races to have access to the same amount of cosmetics. It's actually unreasonable that they do not.

It's not a restriction, it's a feature! It's what make the new limited races unique! /sarcasm.

For whatever reason it seems more and more likely that a lot of headgear just isn't going to be available for Hrothgar and Viera. Even if it could be designed to work for one, I doubt they'd push it through without it being available to both. My guess is that the way that each race was designed has led to it being really tough to fit headgear on the models through the usual method and since they'd have to design them from the ground up for both Viera and Hrothgar in addition to the version that'd fit every other playable race it has pretty much doubled their workload for each piece of headgear.

Which, unfortunately, is why my hope for seeing the missing genders added is starting to waver...

I've accepted my fate with hats. I usually had them off 90% of the time when I was miqo'te, so despite still wishing I could use hats that 10% of the time I do want it, it's tolerable. What fries my bacon to no end is the hairstyles. I thought long and hard about going back to miqo'te just to regain back access to my hairstyle catalogue. So far I've resisted as I like the Viera aesthetic and style more, but my goodness they really need access to the different hairstyles at least. I don't know how much longer I can hold out waiting for those hairstyles.

small indie company, please understand.

Do not worry people, modders will do the work that small indie company can't handle.
Also, they're working on it, I'm sure, we sacrificed whole dungeon, so that means we were getting races finished, right? Right guys?

Please explain to me how most head gear would actually look on a viera with those ears? Without being a clipping nightmare, 40% of the top would be ear holes. Every single item would look completely different than what every other race has, if its even reasonable to create. And don't most people show show helmet off anyways?

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Please explain to me how most head gear would actually look on a viera with those ears?

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http://pm1.narvii.com/7163/8671b8e79...-960v2_uhq.jpg

Oh

I didn't imagine people would be happy with simply turning off the ears. Doesn't that take away the point of playing a Viera? If every head piece removes your ears?

There isn't really a single perfect solution, but is it any worse than the weird ear-sleeves used for Elezen and Miqo'te ears?

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Oh

I didn't imagine people would be happy with simply turning off the ears. Doesn't that take away the point of playing a Viera? If every head piece removes your ears?

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I was joking a bit, in all seriousness it would depend on the hat. In the case of tall pointy wizard hats that could conceivably cover the ears, then I don't mind.

At the end of the day, the option to wear them would be better than no choice at all. Obviously on flatter hats or helmets or whatever, I'd want ear holes.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Oh

I didn't imagine people would be happy with simply turning off the ears. Doesn't that take away the point of playing a Viera? If every head piece removes your ears?

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Some people would def take turning off the ears cause they just want to play dress up and don't care about the race, just like how some people post threads wanting to be able to turn off tails. The DEVS would never want to turn off the defining feature of a race just cause someone's triggered by it clipping though, so the only time tails are turned off it's with gear that has a tail built into it, like the wolf gear. And they're not going to remodel and alter every top to make a tail hole so they see it as acceptable clipping. I've played every tail race and it's not that noticeable most of the time, even for myself (Someone who gets triggered by bad clipping).

Seems Viera ears get the same treatment as tails, Wolf ears replace them when worn just like they replace everyone else's ears and the wolf tail replaces tails.
Thing is, these ears look absolutely ugly when clipping.

"Make ear sleeves, like the cat heads" That only works cause they're cute lil nubs attached on to say "I'm a kit with a bit of room for my cat ears". Viera ears can legit be 1/8 of their total height, something that big would look goofy af with cloth/ leather condoms wrapped around them. Heck, their ears alone could require more "cloth" than many of the hats they would be wearing from a design pov and they have 4 different ear shapes.

"Make holes" they would have to remodel and redesign the base shape of all hats/ helms for that to work (none of which was designed with that thought in mind). We already know what Viera head armor/ hat holes would have to look like for it to make sense with the Fren hair.

"Let it just clip" looks TERRIBLE when they do.
I don't think there's a way to make this work without massive redesigns and remodeling of hats/ helms. Just getting these races in seems like it was a minor miracle on their part, would explain why I never see any Viere Hat mods and the 1 hair mod I've seen to bring an existing hair to them looks baaad.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Oh

I didn't imagine people would be happy with simply turning off the ears. Doesn't that take away the point of playing a Viera? If every head piece removes your ears?

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I like Viera body shape and animations, and I like that you can make them look more mature and womanly than either of the other races I actually like the look of at all (cat and au ra). I like the ears, but I like having the basic customization options available to literally every other race in the game except Hrothgar more.

The lack of hats is extremely bad. It feels far, far worse than I ever expected before trying Viera.

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Originally Posted by Gofr

I've accepted my fate with hats. I usually had them off 90% of the time when I was miqo'te, so despite still wishing I could use hats that 10% of the time I do want it, it's tolerable. What fries my bacon to no end is the hairstyles. I thought long and hard about going back to miqo'te just to regain back access to my hairstyle catalogue. So far I've resisted as I like the Viera aesthetic and style more, but my goodness they really need access to the different hairstyles at least. I don't know how much longer I can hold out waiting for those hairstyles.

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People shouldn't be complaining about the lack of hats for viera and hrothgar. They should be complaining about the severe lack of head styling options compared to all the other races.

Viera and hrothgar cannot wear most hats AND they have access to an extremely small amount of hairstyles. To top it off hrothgar need to use a fantasia to change their hair. When you look at it this way you realise just how awful this situation really is. It's a bloody disgrace.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Viera and hrothgar cannot wear most hats AND they have access to an extremely small amount of hairstyles. To top it off hrothgar need to use a fantasia to change their hair. When you look at it this way you realise just how awful this situation really is. It's a bloody disgrace.

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I'm sad when I think the Valentione's hats probably won't work on them

If the promo pics don't show a Viera or Hrothgar wearing it, it's safe to assume they can't.

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Originally Posted by Sheli54

I'm sad when I think the Valentione's hats probably won't work on them

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Not 'probably', they for sure won't work. We have several small slightly-to-the-side hats like the new Valentione hat in the game already and none of them show. I don't see why the male bowler hat wouldn't work on Hrothgar but I guess parity between the new races.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I don't see why the male bowler hat wouldn't work on Hrothgar but I guess parity between the new races.

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Part of the hairstyle needs to be turned off when a hat is equipped, and I don't think they can do that with Hrothgar because of how they're set up with the mane built into the head model.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Part of the hairstyle needs to be turned off when a hat is equipped, and I don't think they can do that with Hrothgar because of how they're set up with the mane built into the head model.

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I understand, but why even design the races like that? Hrothgar could feasibly use most hats and Viera most hairstyles if they hadn't. I know you can't answer that so mostly shouting into the void at this point :D

It feels like getting outdoor furnishings from events when you don't have a house.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I understand, but why even design the races like that?

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If they were designing the game from scratch with these races included, they probably wouldn't do it that way.

But my understanding (entirely from observation of what is in the game) is that the character creation is quite rigid, having been set up to allow for the options they needed only for the original five races back in ARR, if not 1.0. Since then they can repurpose settings, but they can't add any more.

Au Ra have the unique choice of eye 'limbal rings', but it comes at the cost of unique racial tattoos like most other races have - but both use the same data, two on/off switches and a choice of colour.

In designing Hrothgar, it looks like they've had to make the decision between giving them normal equippable hair, and repurposing the hairstyle selection setting (pick a design from the list, then select an associated base and highlight colour) to give them customisable fur patterns and colours, with the stripes/spots being built in as hair highlights.

From how I understand it to work, the other way they could have approached this would be to lock specific hairstyles to specific fur patterns. You can only use style A if you want to also have tiger stripes.

It's also quite possibly to do with their head shapes, which vary between the different face designs - if hairstyles were separate and added later, maybe they wouldn't fit all the faces equally well, so they decided to make them specific and shaped to fit the individual heads. (I'll have to take a closer look next time I load up the game, but I've noticed that normal hairstyles don't quite touch the head - on exposed hairlines you can see that they float slightly above it and there's a gap if you look at them side-on. I wonder if Hrothgar have the same problem or not.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If they were designing the game from scratch with these races included, they probably wouldn't do it that way.

But my understanding (entirely from observation of what is in the game) is that the character creation is quite rigid, having been set up to allow for the options they needed only for the original five races back in ARR, if not 1.0. Since then they can repurpose settings, but they can't add any more.

Au Ra have the unique choice of eye 'limbal rings', but it comes at the cost of unique racial tattoos like most other races have - but both use the same data, two on/off switches and a choice of colour.

In designing Hrothgar, it looks like they've had to make the decision between giving them normal equippable hair, and repurposing the hairstyle selection setting (pick a design from the list, then select an associated base and highlight colour) to give them customisable fur patterns and colours, with the stripes/spots being built in as hair highlights.

From how I understand it to work, the other way they could have approached this would be to lock specific hairstyles to specific fur patterns. You can only use style A if you want to also have tiger stripes.

It's also quite possibly to do with their head shapes, which vary between the different face designs - if hairstyles were separate and added later, maybe they wouldn't fit all the faces equally well, so they decided to make them specific and shaped to fit the individual heads. (I'll have to take a closer look next time I load up the game, but I've noticed that normal hairstyles don't quite touch the head - on exposed hairlines you can see that they float slightly above it and there's a gap if you look at them side-on. I wonder if Hrothgar have the same problem or not.)

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Yes, there was an interesting response about this on the subreddit explaining which items to go which "slot" they have designed on the face and heads. Viera and Miqo's ears are placed where the hat would go, and Hrothgar hair and Au Ra horns are placed in the face slot. So since every Miqo has the same ears they just make hat+ears models when they equip a hat, but Viera have 4 different ear styles so it would be more work to do so. Also probably the reason why Au Ra horns will never be seperated from the face and why we see so little added to general character customization other than hairstyles. It's very convoluted.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Viera and Miqo's ears are placed where the hat would go, and Hrothgar hair and Au Ra horns are placed in the face slot. So since every Miqo has the same ears they just make hat+ears models when they equip a hat, but Viera have 4 different ear styles so it would be more work to do so.

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On Miqo'te specifically, this came up in another discussion: some screenshots of what the character models look like without any hairstyle added. Interestingly, the exposed skin on the inner ear is part of the base model, but the furry outer ear is part of the hairstyle. Both of those elements can move together during certain emotes. This also means that every design needs to have ears of the same size and shape so they mesh together correctly.

(On a side note, some hats and hoods hide Miqo'te ears, and the ears modelled into the hat aren't always positioned where the ears should be, so they must be programmed to deactivate that inner-ear part of the model - which is probably just equivalent to ears on other characters, come to think of it, other than being oddly-placed. Definitely at least one cloak would need to turn off Elezen ears as well.)

Viera ears must be constructed differently from the start - since they have different shapes, and the whole design can be swapped out, probably the inner and outer ear are a single piece that gets added in separately. They don't seem to be able to move like Miqo'te ears do.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Not to minimize your complaints, but didn't they say this would happen? Where they wouldn't get head gear and would have problems? I can't recall where that information is, but I'm quite sure I've read that before.

If in the event that was actually said, why are folks shocked that what they said would be an issue is an issue?

If it wasn't said, disregard this and I apologize for chiming in.

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I don't think anyone is still shocked by this, but I guess there was some expectation that newly released (event) items would be designed with Viera and Hrothgar in mind? Now you could argue these items aren't new as such and were completed long before Viera and Hrothgar were finished and you'd probably be right, but we don't know.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

On Miqo'te specifically, this came up in another discussion: some screenshots of what the character models look like without any hairstyle added. Interestingly, the exposed skin on the inner ear is part of the base model, but the furry outer ear is part of the hairstyle. Both of those elements can move together during certain emotes. This also means that every design needs to have ears of the same size and shape so they mesh together correctly.

Viera ears must be constructed differently from the start - since they have different shapes, and the whole design can be swapped out, probably the inner and outer ear are a single piece that gets added in separately. They don't seem to be able to move like Miqo'te ears do.

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Possibly yeah, Viera ears can have 4 different shapes and has a length slider so it's probably something to do with that. But they absolutely do move, they don't flop about manically during emotes or movement but they do bounce and move when running/flying/mining etc.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I don't think anyone is still shocked by this, but I guess there was some expectation that newly released (event) items would be designed with Viera and Hrothgar in mind? Now you could argue these items aren't new as such and were completed long before Viera and Hrothgar were finished and you'd probably be right, but we don't know.

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I wouldn't expect all new gear to be compatible with Viera/Hrothgar. They've said from the start it's a design choice for hats to not work on them. Making everything compatible in future would mean no more hats for any character anywhere in the game, and I doubt they would do that.

They could probably do with some substitute items (eg. give Viera the feather decoration that goes on the hat as a separate hairpin) but then you'd be stuck coming up with an alternative for Hrothgar too when there's no simple option there, and then people say they're not getting fair treatment...

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Possibly yeah, Viera ears can have 4 different shapes and has a length slider so it's probably something to do with that. But they absolutely do move, they don't flop about manically during emotes or movement but they do bounce and move when running/flying/mining etc.

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Ah, I hadn't realised they move that much - I don't have a Viera character, and I've only seen people say that their ears don't move like Miqo'te do.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I wouldn't expect all new gear to be compatible with Viera/Hrothgar. They've said from the start it's a design choice for hats to not work on them. Making everything compatible in future would mean no more hats for any character anywhere in the game, and I doubt they would do that.

They could probably do with some substitute items (eg. give Viera the feather decoration that goes on the hat as a separate hairpin) but then you'd be stuck coming up with an alternative for Hrothgar too when there's no simple option there, and then people say they're not getting fair treatment...





Ah, I hadn't realised they move that much - I don't have a Viera character, and I've only seen people say that their ears don't move like Miqo'te do.

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Oh, I don't begrudge anyone else their hats! Especially event hats tend to be fun and expressive so I see why they keep making them. It's just a bit of a bummer :) I also thought about substitutes but not everyone's gonna want those either, or everyone would want the substitute instead and it's all just more work. Really a case of can't please everybody.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

People shouldn't be complaining about the lack of hats for viera and hrothgar. They should be complaining about the severe lack of head styling options compared to all the other races.

Viera and hrothgar cannot wear most hats AND they have access to an extremely small amount of hairstyles. To top it off hrothgar need to use a fantasia to change their hair. When you look at it this way you realise just how awful this situation really is. It's a bloody disgrace.

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This so much. It's been 7 months since Shadowbringers came out and still not even a word on new or old hair styles for viera or hrothgar. It upsets me how SE are treating these races, at least give us some updates, damn something! Right now it just feels like they prefer to pretend viera and hrothgar don't exist...

To top it all off if everyone remembers, the only reason we have any working head pieces for the new races is because some of the devs worked on making them usable on their own time behind Yoshida's back. SE would have been fine releasing these new races with no usable head gear, just think about how pathetic that is. Right now both the races are barely half finished and when you factor in they're gender locked, in my eyes that's less than quarter finished in comparison to the other races.

Found myself missing my Viera yesterday and then thought about all the styles I'd be missing out on if I switched back.

Really hope this terrible "design decision" gets changed soon.

Did they explain why they couldn't just drill 2 holes in hats/helmets/hoods for the viera?

Was that just a design choice? If that's the case, pretty dumb choice.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Found myself missing my Viera yesterday and then thought about all the styles I'd be missing out on if I switched back.

Really hope this terrible "design decision" gets changed soon.

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I think about this every time I log in.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

People shouldn't be complaining about the lack of hats for viera and hrothgar. They should be complaining about the severe lack of head styling options compared to all the other races.

Viera and hrothgar cannot wear most hats AND they have access to an extremely small amount of hairstyles. To top it off hrothgar need to use a fantasia to change their hair. When you look at it this way you realise just how awful this situation really is. It's a bloody disgrace.

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This I can get behind. I don't expect characters with enormous ears to casually put on a top hat, but the hair should have been made available for them. It especially sucks if you bought the hair [in-game or mogstation] or grinded content to get it. Hopefully they address this in 5.2