Ishgardian Restoration world visit.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Donate is a stretch and you are thinking of it the wrong way. They couldn't get it done on their server so they are getting it done on yours. It isn't about helping you at all, just like when all those people who come to full server. They aren't their for help they are their to get carried. Shitty behavior both ways.

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That's what I mean when I said I doubted it. They aren't donating with items they are coming for 500 scrips, the level for their crafter, and the gil. Are you following me on here bc I suggested people partake on other servers so they can get the benefits when they get locked out? I'm honestly not for it, I was merely suggesting people do what is screwing them over until the devs decide to wake up and FIX the problem. I do not think wanderers should be on my server clogging up my fate and locking us out. If you look at my posts they are passionately against having wanderers on my server. I am quite literally on the same side as the people who are pissed. I am just jaded and played this game long enough to believe that the devs will take their sweet time. And their reply honestly suggests this.

So many problems with the response from SE.

1. Players aren't going server to server to help craft & items, they're only doing it to get into fates, then leaving to go to a fate on another server.
2. The claim is that this content is to introduce newer players to crafting... then why allow for the server hopping? New crafters are being turned off by the fact that they can't get into their own firmament, meanwhile long-time crafters are taking advantage of the system. Surely it would be better to server-lock the firmament and let new crafters pick up the slack on less populated servers.
3. Additionally, would it not have been a better solution to simply balance the requirements based on the server, like how fates are automatically difficulty balanced... rather than allow people to jump server to server and congest the zones?

I understand that your intentions were somewhat decent here, but the implementation is beyond terrible.

Also, what's the point of having something that's server wide progression when people from other servers can contribute?
You design a system that allows a server to come together and accomplish something as a group, and then you completely ruin that design choice by allowing people from other servers to not only come in and do half the work, but also lock out people from that server. You set up something to be invested in, then designed the systems around that to make that investment completely meaningless. Now it's just another grindy scrip system... because we didn't have one of those already...

Just missed participating. Not because I couldn't get in, but because there were so many people around that the interactive items for the event never loaded. So I basically just waited two hours for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Kalinas

I really, really enjoyed watching Mor Dhona evolve and grow. Same with Idyllshire and being able to progress a zone on my own like the Doman Enclave was really nice. Taking screenshots and finding the little changes is the best part of these developments in my opinion.

That's why the thing that bothers me the most about this new content is the fact that I'll never get to see the initial look of the zone for myself now. It's done and gone forever. No screenshots to add to my collection. No little discoveries.

It would be one thing if the first of the changes took a few days to complete, at least giving interested parties a chance to experience things. On the day of the patch though to go to work and excitedly come back, ready to build...only to find out I had missed some of the development already was disheartening.

Between the huge number of people clogging the zone making it impossible to even get in and the short time between growth events what chance does a large number of the player-base even have to experience this content? It's frustrating and extremely disappointing.

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Exactly this. I loved watching these areas grow as well and I’ve been a huge fan of Ishgard since Heavensward, so my excitement on being able to help rebuild it has been at an all time high. I came home from work yesterday, eager to get started, only to find out that I missed the initial progression and won’t ever be able to see it. Honestly, if things stay the way that they are, most of us won’t even be able to participate until progression is finished for the most part which is extremely disappointing. I want to trust the devs here when they say they’ll resolve the issue, but all I foresee is another situation like they implemented with housing, whereas unless you have 8-12 hours a day to stand in one spot and wait, you’re going to miss out. It’s really frustrating to pay a monthly sub for a game and not even be able to do the content.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Just missed participating. Not because I couldn't get in, but because there were so many people around that the interactive items for the event never loaded. So I basically just waited two hours for nothing.

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Is it possible that it's an issue because of people's settings? Because if an old Standard PS4 can load that just fine, a Gaming PC should as well, yet friends had same issue. All I and my PS4 did different from them was disable names from PCs.

He isnt wrong about low pop servers.

The problem is NA and EU dont have them except the two new ones, and those are already roughly the size of the smallest 5 JP servers.

JP has a handful of 37-40k pop servers, because they have a smaller population and 8 more servers to have them on.

The smallest non-new NA/EU server is DOUBLE the size of the smaller JP servers.

It's the same reason why housing is wonky here. It's the same reason why EVERYTHING designed to work with the size of JP servers ends up feeling terrible elsewhere.

World Visitors aren't turning in things for progress, they're clogging up the zone afking once they see the fate is coming up in 1-2 hrs. Even on Crystal, the smaller servers aren't terribly behind the larger ones. Its inevitable that the turnout will drop once people get their loot...but did SE really not foresee it being a hot mess for the first few weeks?

At the absolute very least this zone should have had the 3 instances so that even if you are locked out of the fate you can turn things in for your home server. After I got home from work I was locked out of Balmung's Firmament for over an hour because people were camping for the fate that early.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Is it possible that it's an issue because of people's settings? Because if an old Standard PS4 can load that just fine, a Gaming PC should as well, yet friends had same issue. All I and my PS4 did different from them was disable names from PCs.

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I'm on PS4 Pro, with names disabled.

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Originally Posted by Kalinas

I really, really enjoyed watching Mor Dhona evolve and grow. Same with Idyllshire and being able to progress a zone on my own like the Doman Enclave was really nice. Taking screenshots and finding the little changes is the best part of these developments in my opinion.

It would be one thing if the first of the changes took a few days to complete, at least giving interested parties a chance to experience things.

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I was so sure this is what they were going to do, i thought it would be stupid to do anything else. I guess I forgot to take into account that they might Square-Enix it (ie bungle it completely and release poorly thought out and developed content)

This patch really, really has destroyed my desire to play the game.

I put all of this effort into leveling my crafting jobs, desynth skills, learning the rotation, etc. In one fell swoop you change my rotations, get rid of the need to have every crafting class leveled, make leveling desynth easy, and make leveling easy. Also, the price of materia that I used to meld my gear is now going to fall enormously.

In addition you made the new content for beginners and glamour seekers, not for serious advanced crafters, which I was expecting because you called it endgame.

You hurt veteran crafters and economy fans in so many ways all at once... There's nothing new to do that adds to progression and now the prices of so many things are ruined. I had 400 Fieldcraft 2 Materia that is now worth 10% of what it was thanks to the changes made.

Ugh.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

He isnt wrong about low pop servers.

The problem is NA and EU dont have them except the two new ones, and those are already roughly the size of the smallest 5 JP servers.

JP has a handful of 37-40k pop servers, because they have a smaller population and 8 more servers to have them on.

The smallest non-new NA server is DOUBLE the size of the smaller JP servers.

It's the same reason why housing is wonky here. It's the same reason why EVERYTHING designed to work with the size of JP servers ends up feeling terrible elsewhere.

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Yeah exactly what I keep telling people. They design for the JP audience almost exclusively, despite the fact that they have more NA/EU players. Wish they would cater to their *actual* market instead of just catering to themselves.
But then again I remember that BLM, the job that Yoshi plays, has been top-DPS for 4 years straight and has never required a major balance change while all other classes are constantly being reworked. When I remember that, I lose all hope that Yoshi and his team will ever develop anything not solely for themselves.

Lol, firmament in my data center practically congested 1 hour prior FATE. In addition, all those wanderer do nothing. People who want just to craft for turn in locked.

Practically what they (SE) should do, they need to 0 FATE reward for wanderer, thus only native will compete with each other. But in order to make people from other server to help small sever, multiply the turn in reward if wanderer help them to progress. In addition, SE can put the turn in NPC outside firmament.

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Originally Posted by Kalinas

I really, really enjoyed watching Mor Dhona evolve and grow. Same with Idyllshire and being able to progress a zone on my own like the Doman Enclave was really nice. Taking screenshots and finding the little changes is the best part of these developments in my opinion.

That's why the thing that bothers me the most about this new content is the fact that I'll never get to see the initial look of the zone for myself now. It's done and gone forever. No screenshots to add to my collection. No little discoveries.

It would be one thing if the first of the changes took a few days to complete, at least giving interested parties a chance to experience things. On the day of the patch though to go to work and excitedly come back, ready to build...only to find out I had missed some of the development already was disheartening.

Between the huge number of people clogging the zone making it impossible to even get in and the short time between growth events what chance does a large number of the player-base even have to experience this content? It's frustrating and extremely disappointing.

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Yeah it sucks.
I think they underestimated how much this would have blown up.
The problem is, the things are being done in mere hours. People who were at work or whatever
missed out on the initial look right out the start.

Let's not pretend people are coming to help the smaller causes.
They are just fate hopping server to server.
Some folks can't even load in just by the sheer mass.
The idea and concept is great, but implemented poorly. :/
This isn't even server wide cause anymore, it's literally the entire DC now lol.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

We understand that being unable to participate in the Ishgardian Restoration on your own World can be very stressful. But please rest assured that we are preparing emergency measures that we can put into action should the situation deteriorate, at which time an announcement will be made

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How much worse than being locked out of events on your own world does it need to get? It should not need to deteriorate, the status quo is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Patriclis

Yeah exactly what I keep telling people. They design for the JP audience almost exclusively, despite the fact that they have more NA/EU players. Wish they would cater to their *actual* market instead of just catering to themselves.
But then again I remember that BLM, the job that Yoshi plays, has been top-DPS for 4 years straight and has never required a major balance change while all other classes are constantly being reworked. When I remember that, I lose all hope that Yoshi and his team will ever develop anything not solely for themselves.

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I'm just gonna say that this is not just a Yoshi-P problem but Square Enix problem as a whole. They have a long history of catering to their Japanese market and not internationally. It has gotten better over the years and Yoshi-P is certainly one of the more progressive- if not the most progressive of the Square Enix board of directors. But I feel your frustrations. It's not like they had all of Stormblood to realize that really desireable instances or fates will create server congestion and therefor lockouts. They did a great job preventing Raubahn Extreme or the Ixion fate debacles with the launch of Shb. But how could they just drop the ball this hard? They know that Ishgard is near and dear to the majority of the player base. So much so that they even pulled the Haurchefant sad moment in one of the first cutscenes in Shb. Which leads me to how could they not predict that we would flood Ishgard Firmament? Why did they not prepare like Shb launch and at least give us instances!!!

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Originally Posted by Diceyy

How much worse than being locked out of events on your own world does it need to get? It should not need to deteriorate, the status quo is unacceptable.

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This! People can't participate in the event and if they are in the zone the required entities they need to interact with may not even spawn! So if you're locked out, you have no chance to do it. If you're IN the zone you may still not even have a chance to do it. How much further south can it go from here?

I understand Yoshi's reasoning. But could we at least kick the players that decide to AFK in The Firmament? So at least a few more had a chance to do the fate?

Thank you for clarifying, Yoshi P!

Tbh, that system need to change ASAP. Because after craft almost 40k scripts, you cant access to Firmament. Just because some wanderers from other server want free Fate scripts. Great idea

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Originally Posted by Patriclis

[...]
But then again I remember that BLM, the job that Yoshi plays, has been top-DPS for 4 years straight and has never required a major balance change while all other classes are constantly being reworked.[...]

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While I like your healthy scepticism and ability to see trough the cozy fluff of a game developer's sweet talk and explanations (which should be a bare mininum towards his paying customers) you also must remember that Black Mage was always the "We blow up the whole screen and everything dies" profession since decades, and I am glad Square Enix sticks roughly to their design ideas like these. I don't think it has anything to do with the current problems. I am more afraid of the current changes to make everything the same..

Problem ain't that world visit is allowed.
Problem is that they didn't make it an event for high lvl crafters only, cause god forbid they make non-pve content that not everyone and his mother can participate in.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Couldn't you just have it so Concerted Works function the same as any other FATE? Where the difficulty/amount required to finish it dynamically changes based on the number of people in the zone? Then there's no risk of a server being unable to finish it based on low population with a World Visit lockout on the content. That way a dead server with 5 crafters can finish it the same as a busted server with 5,000 crafters.

The only difference would then be the rate they finish the stockpile phase at, which honestly I think is fine. More than fine, actually, if you're on a smaller server then sure it would take longer, but I think individually you'd feel you had a bigger impact, no? More of a sense of pride in your server when you do finish it? Where as with how it is now, it doesn't really feel like a world event anymore. It feels like me and my server spent time working on it, then an influx of Wanderer's came in to steal credit at the last minute. Saw plenty of Wanderer's acting like they were Gods gift to Twintania last night, wasn't particularly a welcome sight. I'd rather have finished stockpiling much slower than tired my eyes out rolling all night at those kinds of comments.

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It would work the same way with the gathering/work progress. Needs a bit of fine-tuning but it sould've worked.

Anyways, thx for the answer and explanation @Yoshi-P :)
Its good to know, that its designed so everyone should be alble to enjoy the content.

In response to Yoshida's points:

your second point completely invalidates the first. You're major overhaul of crafting and gathering, to include xp gains and leveling, made it easier for everyone that wasn't doing this to start doing this. this means the entire server population will be doing crafting and gathering, thereby invalidating the numbers used for point one.

The Firmament should be completely locked down to home worlds only. What's happening is those large worlds are going other worlds for the fate that's once a day, which locks everyone else on that home world out of content they want to experience and participate in, causing a ripple effect across data centers.

You ignored the change in crafters/gathers that would be participating in this by only looking at the numbers before release of the overhaul. you didn't consider the delta on a daily or weekly basis and it's only going to attract more people. This should be patched to lock out players not on the home world.

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Problem ain't that world visit is allowed.
Problem is that they didn't make it an event for high lvl crafters only, cause god forbid they make non-pve content that not everyone and his mother can participate in.

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Why is that a problem?

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hello, everyone. This is FFXIV Producer & Director Yoshi-P.

We have received a lot of feedback regarding the Ishgardian Restoration and have been following the ongoing discussion. Thank you for your interest in this new content!


Our aim was to introduce crafting and gathering to players who have never tried it before, so we designed this opening section to appeal to as many players as possible. For that reason, concerted works were created in a way that does not demand a high degree of skill to enjoy.

Rather than beginning by narrowing down the types of player who can participate, we made this first installment in Patch 5.11 in a way that would allow players to experience the restoration as an ongoing and evolving project, since this is the start of a new series of content. For the first part, the various elements that comprise it are remarkably simple, and it currently does not include any of the end-game content that the development team is considering. In particular, the concerted works were created to allow as many players as possible to participate.

As for the upcoming installments, we plan to provide a substantial crafting and gathering experience, as well as introduce aspects designed as end-game content. You will begin to see these updates from Patch 5.2 onwards.

We apologize to those crafters and gatherers─including fishers─who were expecting new ways to play, but we will be adding high-difficulty recipes, a ranking system, and scratch-off tickets (name TBD) in future updates, which we are sure will be worth the wait.

More details will follow in an upcoming Producer’s Letter Live, so please keep an eye out for that.
[/INDENT]And as always, we are grateful to all of you─the players─for your feedback and support!

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Thank you for addressing people's concerns :) I appreciate your efforts greatly! Hopefully going forward as people get what they are after it quiets down a bit.

My DC has a relatively new server that was lagging behind a bit. The FATE-train zerged them and forced progress so that it would line up with their timers, when most of the residents hadn't even gotten home from work to unlock the zone. There were mostly complaints from them that wanderers came in and stole that from them; they were happy to go at a slower pace, but they're not allowed now.

The issue of some servers being literally unable to complete it alone is a valid concern. However, surely they should be given the chance to do so before bigger boys swoop in and take it away from them? The more logical approach would be to:

A) Lock the wanderers from joining for the first week or so (depending on how many stages there are), and once everyone has had the chance to do it on their own worlds, only then unlock it so stragglers can be helped.

B) Allow wanderers but remove the FATE rewards from them. They can still come help if they genuinely are just trying to help out, but they are not so grossly over-incentivised to do so that it becomes a fight between wanderers and residents.



Personally, I now have to stay logged in in the Firmament at all times just to be sure I can participate. Our latest progress has stalled because many others are doing exactly this, knowing that if we go out to farm materials to do hand-ins, another server will swoop in to hog the spot for the CE. Yesterday it was a sea of activity, today it's a gaggle of AFKers. If that's what you want, fine, but that's not going to change as long as abusive wanderers are allowed and incentivised to steal from others servers.

The real root of the problem is that it's way faster to earn scrip by server hopping for the FATEs, as opposed to crafting collectibles. If you raised the amount awarded from the turn-ins, then people would be less motivated to camp other server FATEs. It would also help to boost participation in the event from the home server, cause right now a lot of people see a 16 scrip reward, then look at the vendor and see the top item costs 8400 scrips, and quit right there from the thought that they'll never be able to earn that much.

I personally don't see why anything needs to be made more "difficult" for people. Not everything needs suffering to have rewards, and aside from the congestion, this has been a great way to get a lot of my newcomer FC members into crafting. Anyone who thinks locking things behind impossible-to-achieve activities is just doing it to lord it over others, and that's the kind of attitude that breeds a negative environment.

I do agree that scrip rewards need to be increased, though. I only have enough time to play and getting 16 scrips per turn-in, on top of going to gather the mats manually, is a lot of time sink. Still doing it after organizing how to manage it, but it's something to at least consider.

I'm excited to see where things will go in the future, this has been a great way for me to level up my crafters and gatherers too since I'm an omnicrafter/gatherer myself with minimal amount of time to play. Good work, Yoshi-P!

However, people are jumping worlds only to do the fate. They don't help at raising progress, they just jump ahead of time and wait for the fate to start.

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Originally Posted by Orchidias

I personally don't see why anything needs to be made more "difficult" for people. Not everything needs suffering to have rewards, and aside from the congestion, this has been a great way to get a lot of my newcomer FC members into crafting. Anyone who thinks locking things behind impossible-to-achieve activities is just doing it to lord it over others, and that's the kind of attitude that breeds a negative environment.

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Nothing to do about lording over others and everything to do with fun. A challenging system can be fun for some people. The current system where you just craft everything with a one button macro is not. As it is, I do my crafting while watching something else on a second screen. An activity should be engaging. Crafting in its current form is not.

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Problem ain't that world visit is allowed.
Problem is that they didn't make it an event for high lvl crafters only, cause god forbid they make non-pve content that not everyone and his mother can participate in.

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Yeah, it's terrible when more people can participate, isn't it.

Just watch how soon, everyone is an omnicrafter and the entire point of this sub-community is gone when market boards are swamped with cheap product, and barely anybody except gathering bots makes much money off of it anymore. But I think the REAL problem is that crafting can fail! Its so hard, so stressful, to those poor new crafters, such a difficulty to suffer through, to get to the King Kong mount, right? Why does it have to be so HARD? Make it a tapping game like on mobile!

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

He said if they keep doing it there are going to turn on emergency features to lock them out of the zone but they want to watch what happens over the next few days first.

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In other words, we have to wait until the asshats get their mounts, glamour, minions etc before they stop behaving like entitled children and wait our turn.

I missed the fate last night on my server, locked out. I refuse to go to another server to "help them". They don't need my help, the fate is literally clicking on three things.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Just watch how soon, everyone is an omnicrafter and the entire point of this sub-community is gone when market boards are swamped with cheap product, and barely anybody except gathering bots makes much money off of it anymore. But I think the REAL problem is that crafting can fail! Its so hard, so stressful, to those poor new crafters, such a difficulty to suffer through, to get to the King Kong mount, right? Why does it have to be so HARD? Make it a tapping game like on mobile!

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What on earth are you on about?

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

In other words, we have to wait until the asshats get their mounts, glamour, minions etc before they stop behaving like entitled children and wait our turn.

I missed the fate last night on my server, locked out. I refuse to go to another server to "help them". They don't need my help, the fate is literally clicking on three things.

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In other words, chill and see what happens over the next few days.

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In other words, we have to wait until the asshats get their mounts, glamour, minions etc before they stop behaving like entitled children and wait our turn.

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Yeah, people got those day 1, likely before phase 1 finished (I had harambe and glam before we even hit our fate, for instance)

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Yeah, it's terrible when more people can participate, isn't it.

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More people participating isn’t the issue. People participating at the expense of others is the problem.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Nothing to do about lording over others and everything to do with fun. A challenging system can be fun for some people. The current system where you just craft everything with a one button macro is not. As it is, I do my crafting while watching something else on a second screen. An activity should be engaging. Crafting in its current form is not.

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To each their own, but some places don't actually need inaccessible content locked to a select few players who have more time and motivation to put everything into them. I've been trying to mentor newcomers and they're enjoying crafting in ffxiv as being a lot more rewarding than other game. Making it unnecessarily complicated doesn't make the rewards worth it, it just makes people confused and not want to do it if the risk of failure is higher than reward. We already have people being toxic in endgame battle content, after all. Let crafting and gathering not become that.

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

Agreed. This is ridiculous.

I'm 100% disappointed in the implementation of this and the complete failure to consider the reprocussions of certain scenarios from the devs.


Bad implementation.

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Who are you to say something is a failure when you're not the one seeing SE's profits or internal data for XIV? Edit: Heck, it hasn't even been 72 hours!

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

In other words, chill and see what happens over the next few days.

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Normally I would agree with this; however we are talking about people missing one-time events that they will not be able to participate in again.

This is something that needs to be addressed now, not in a few days after numerous one time events have lapsed.