The Frontlines Premade issue has not been fixed.

EDIT Chris4 beat me to it.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

I mean, sync solo queuing is planned and prepared before hand, hence the "pre" suffix. You can argue semantics all you want, but you understand exactly what we mean and the understand how it is abusing thee queue system. And like I said in the freest post, this is all contingent on if this was what SE was trying to do by breaking down 8 man parties and enforcing freelancer on "real" premades in the first place. If not, this entire topic can be ignored.

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Read through your thread, there are more than a few people that weren't clear on what you were talking about due to you using the term premade for something other than what it is commonly accepted to denote. People obviously didn't understand exactly what you meant, and if you are going to bother posting and expect people to understand your point immediately you might want to pay more attention to semantics.

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Originally Posted by JustNaes

Premade vs Premade is a horrible idea with the current iteration of Frontlines right now.

You're right, it would be fair and a true match of skill, but it would literally be a dead queue. You won't realistically see three leaders rallying 24 players to play at the same time, the logistics of that is just too much work.

Maybe if it was 8v8v8 and they brought back 24 man FL then a Premade-only mode would work.

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At least you get the point. As much as I hate "hate" stupid players. Not bad because skill is not everything people have, but just plain stupid is not something that is easy to excuse. Their aren't enough PvPers to fill the ques, specially since they removed 8vs8vs8 for some reason. Yet multiple comments about not wanting to play with them.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

I mean, sync solo queuing is planned and prepared before hand, hence the "pre" suffix. You can argue semantics all you want, but you understand exactly what we mean and the understand how it is abusing thee queue system. And like I said in the freest post, this is all contingent on if this was what SE was trying to do by breaking down 8 man parties and enforcing freelancer on "real" premades in the first place. If not, this entire topic can be ignored.

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So basically you want FL to devolve into a game of luck rather with your suggestion of implementing permanent Freelancer and the breakdown of 8-mans. With the changes you propose, you're basically rolling the dice to see if you have either:

1.) Prominent FL players, people who listen well, and skilled healers
2.) Bots, AFK farmers, and Griefers who troll shot calls.

The game literally becomes just pure luck where you either roll mostly decent teammates or just horrible players. This is just to make it fair?

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Originally Posted by chris4

I am going to reply to your obvious bait post (when I really shouldn't) and just leave you with this. https://i.gyazo.com/337eb85f08f5a918...5123c83dd4.png being from the rank 1 pvp team in ranked team feast on primal last season, this is my experience with a premade vs premade pvp mode in FFXIV. Over 5 hours in queue during primetime during a season (date/time of screenshot is 6/26/19 at 10:49pm) and yeah you guessed it, people dodged rather than grind against each other to get better. They would rather the effortless win or maybe even just a chance of winning against other teams instead of grinding away vs the top premade to get better. Unfortunately for me, this supports Brian's point about people just wanting a 90% wr and easy games, but I never argued against that, there will always be people like that, there will always be people afking in frontlines for the tomes, there will always be people afking in alliance raids, main story roulettes, and other duties because they want things effortlessly handed too them, this isnt a pvp problem, this is a FFXIV player problem. I would rather they don't just add another dead mode because people refuse to grind against people better than them to get better, which again, is a problem that extends further than just FFXIV pvp.

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I think you missed my point, I was not talking about feast, but a premade only queue for FL.

Also don't really see why would anyone queue in ranked feast solo or pre during off-season.

I was just pointing out that people who ask for 8 man premades to be allowed again (well the overwhelming majority at least since there are obviously exceptions) don't want just to be able to queue as premade, they want to queue in mode that no matter what includes PuGs, completely ignoring the suggestions for pre vs pre modes mode that would allow them to play with their friends and that no-one would be against.

Let's face it the majority of people who want 8 man's to be back just want their spoon for easy wins back and nothing more.

Sorry if I missed any points or for any grammars posting from phone, well review my post and discussion asap I'm back home.

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Originally Posted by JustNaes

So basically you want FL to devolve into a game of luck rather with your suggestion of implementing permanent Freelancer and the breakdown of 8-mans. With the changes you propose, you're basically rolling the dice to see if you have either:

1.) Prominent FL players, people who listen well, and skilled healers
2.) Bots, AFK farmers, and Griefers who troll shot calls.

The game literally becomes just pure luck where you either roll mostly decent teammates or just horrible players. This is just to make it fair?

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You would still be able to go in with up to a team of 4, you just wouldn't have the same padded win ratio's, which let's be honest, is what you people want.

You don't want to break into 4 man teams and queue up to potentially play against each other because it affects your win ratio's. You also don't want any less than 8 because you have determined that's the right amount to roll over other teams who aren't necessarily less skilled but might not have the macro's and voice comm's that you're using. It's why you don't see the Aether premades playing unless they have at least 8 to sync queue (typically it's 8-14). SE recognized this was a problem and they took steps to counter it but they didn't go far enough.

There's a few small teams of 2 or 4 that I see quite often in FL games that consist of skilled players. Sometimes they use macro's to help lead and the matches are relatively fun and mostly closer in score (many that result in wins) as opposed to the rolf stomp Adder goon squad, so your melodramatic spiel about it being luck/unplayable with less than 8 is nonsense.

#EnforceFreelancer

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Also don't really see why would anyone queue in ranked feast solo or pre during off-season.

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Im fairly sure they said they took that picture during the "Feast Team Season" we had at the end of Stormblood

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Let's face it the majority of people who want 8 man's to be back just want their spoon for easy wins back and nothing more.

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You really think that's why most people want 8 man premades back? Do you not have friends you play with in this game? Most everyone i know don't care about "easy wins" as you put it. We have friends, we want to play with those friends. And when there's more then 4 people who want to play together, people get left out and that's no fun at all. It has nothing to do with winning easily, it has to do with playing with people we enjoy playing the game with. Last i checked this was a social game meant to be played with friends. So they need to stop taking that away.

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Originally Posted by Rumari

You really think that's why most people want 8 man premades back? Do you not have friends you play with in this game? Most everyone i know don't care about "easy wins" as you put it. We have friends, we want to play with those friends. And when there's more then 4 people who want to play together, people get left out and that's no fun at all. It has nothing to do with winning easily, it has to do with playing with people we enjoy playing the game with. Last i checked this was a social game meant to be played with friends. So they need to stop taking that away.

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You can still have fun playing with your friends, chatting over voice comm's etc. while splitting into multiple teams of 4. It's equally as fun to play against your friends as it is to play with them on the same team.

If SE was "taking away" the social aspect then they wouldn't have left the 4 man party as an option.

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Originally Posted by Rumari

You really think that's why most people want 8 man premades back? Do you not have friends you play with in this game? Most everyone i know don't care about "easy wins" as you put it. We have friends, we want to play with those friends. And when there's more then 4 people who want to play together, people get left out and that's no fun at all. It has nothing to do with winning easily, it has to do with playing with people we enjoy playing the game with. Last i checked this was a social game meant to be played with friends. So they need to stop taking that away.

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You seen MSQ since 5.0?



I think a compromise could be reached. But basically it would have to be huge bonus for solo or punishment for group que. It should be like MSQ roulette a gigantic carrot to force the two groups to coexist. Or putting them in separate ques and let the two sides sink or swim.



What isn't know in these arguments is the win ratio of solo ques per groups and what size. If SE was looking at actual numbers and not just reacting. You would think over five plus players disproportionately influence the match and win rates. Why pick four why not two? Why allow it at all if it is an issue?



Also your not chasing "easy win" thing doesn't fly that well when others supporting your side have complained about how bad it is to play with casuals. Look a few posts above you how they don't like the idea of random matching. Others have said in the past they only que during 24man pops so they don't have to play with 16 other randoms.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Im fairly sure they said they took that picture during the "Feast Team Season" we had at the end of Stormblood

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My bad and thank you for pointing it out.
So if I understand correctly this time, people avoid playing vs other premades.

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Originally Posted by Rumari

You really think that's why most people want 8 man premades back? Do you not have friends you play with in this game? Most everyone i know don't care about "easy wins" as you put it. We have friends, we want to play with those friends. And when there's more then 4 people who want to play together, people get left out and that's no fun at all. It has nothing to do with winning easily, it has to do with playing with people we enjoy playing the game with. Last i checked this was a social game meant to be played with friends. So they need to stop taking that away.

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I don't see what stopping people from making 2 4-man parties and hanging together in discord.

Also I played/play vs my friends/guild in a lot of games including FFXIV and really had just as much fun, since we don't complete for ranking or anything.

So yeah, I really think and most of the posts so far prove me right that its all about the winrate rather than playing with friends.

What actually happened after post 5.1:

1. It is now possible to end up with full alliance made up by 6 x 4 men premade parties and they usually will end on either Flames or Adders. Maelstrom got their end of stick because it is highly unlikely for this GC to get premade parties due to false belief of Maelstrom always win. This also annoy the people that want to play with friends and they becomes more brutal on the Frontline.

A slap on the face to the people that crying about premade.

2. It is now impossible for any GC to coming back from a losing battle because of current gauge system. Once a good player reach 50% gauge and he will becomes unstoppable. Any GC with more than half of their players reach 50% will also becomes unstoppable. It is common to see one GC totally dominates other 2 GCs; especially at Seal Rock. It is much easier to counter battle high and battle fever prior 5.1 where they are not only visible on the map; they also can be reset by focus fire BH and BF targets. Right now, once a good player reach 100% he becomes a God of War and can 3 GCDs a full HP Tank with defense CD (55% damage reduction). The healing from Item Potion will jump between 4k to 5k per use with a 15s CD. Good luck kill him.

This is another slap on the face on people that crying about battle high and battle fever.

My conclusion? Stop complaining when you are new to Frontline and clueless about how to play with system properly. You are only making the situation worst for yourself. This patch the good players will eat lesser skill one like candies. Prior to 5.1, if you cant win a battle, at least you can win by play strategically. Right now? If you don't fight and build up your gauge, "YOU WILL LOSE". No one can coming back from gauge difference.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

You would still be able to go in with up to a team of 4, you just wouldn't have the same padded win ratio's, which let's be honest, is what you people want.

You don't want to break into 4 man teams and queue up to potentially play against each other because it affects your win ratio's. You also don't want any less than 8 because you have determined that's the right amount to roll over other teams who aren't necessarily less skilled but might not have the macro's and voice comm's that you're using. It's why you don't see the Aether premades playing unless they have at least 8 to sync queue (typically it's 8-14). SE recognized this was a problem and they took steps to counter it but they didn't go far enough.

There's a few small teams of 2 or 4 that I see quite often in FL games that consist of skilled players. Sometimes they use macro's to help lead and the matches are relatively fun and mostly closer in score (many that result in wins) as opposed to the rolf stomp Adder goon squad, so your melodramatic spiel about it being luck/unplayable with less than 8 is nonsense.

#EnforceFreelancer

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I personally want to wins for achievements. I careless about win ratios, I just want the fastest way to accumulate wins in the fastest way possible

I know those players, they are good mechanically and half the time don't really care about the objectives and just want to kill. What you propose kills the ability to win via macros/leadership/strategy and instead relies on individual mechanical ability which needs to be relatively high to carry a team of 20 other meh players.

Basically what you're proposing is that PUGs want to be in the mercy of RNG, rolling into the same team as those skilled players to have a blast. The only difference I see here is that you're okay with luck throwing you into the same team as them instead of making sure you're always on the same team as them.

If you enjoy that thrill of inconsistency and randomness that's fine, but I prefer winning my matches over anything else.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

You would still be able to go in with up to a team of 4, you just wouldn't have the same padded win ratio's, which let's be honest, is what you people want.

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You are clueless, most people doing premades have had everything from win achievements for quite some time, and don't really care about winning every game they play. Most people don't care what their win ratio is, or even pay attention to it.

You seem to have a lot of trouble wrapping your mind around the concept that not everyone has fun solo queuing and getting stuck in a party with people they don't know and can't work with.
It's not fun being in a party with 3 healers within range and getting taken down as they spam dps abilities for no good reason.
It's not fun waiting at your teams only node when you are down by 300 points and the GC in the lead has 2, but can't do anything by yourself and can't convince anyone else to go on the offensive because "objectives > kills", and "defend!"
It's not fun letting people know beforehand spawn times and telling them to watch their maps, linking objective locations when they spawn and still finding yourself nearly alone there because most people didn't want to pay attention and are still chasing the last place GC around.
It's not fun suggesting we pinch and being told "let them fight" because we have a very small lead only to later get destroyed by a GC full of battle highs that has been feeding on the third team all round.

Circumstances like those or many others can be avoided or at least be less of a problem when you have a full party. It's just more of an enjoyable experience having a full party of friends, sometimes you can carry an alliance sometimes you can't, but if all the people who were doing full party premades cared about was meaningless win ratios we would have just gone the route of trying to stack a GC with way more then 8 people by queue syncing. As it was even when there were 8 we usually had people waiting for someone to drop so they could join so we could have easily done that.

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Originally Posted by JustNaes

I personally want to wins for achievements. I careless about win ratios, I just want the fastest way to accumulate wins in the fastest way possible.

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I get it. Here's the thing though, what's happening right now with the discord premades (currently Adder goon squad on Aether), isn't healthy for FL overall. What happens when more casual/new players stop playing? Or dodging the 14 man premades because they don't want to get consistently flattened? What about when those that do remain decide they also want easy wins and switch to the GC with freelancer off to get in on the action? I'll tell you what happens, you end up with a dead PVP mode with high queue times.

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Originally Posted by JustNaes

What you propose kills the ability to win via macros/leadership/strategy

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No it doesn't. Like I said, I've seen smaller 2 or 4 man teams in matches that successfully use their macro's to guide their teams to wins. The game scores are just much closer and the participants have to actually work/work harder for their win instead of LOL ROLLING the other teams.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

You would still be able to go in with up to a team of 4, you just wouldn't have the same padded win ratio's, which let's be honest, is what you people want.

#EnforceFreelancer

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You are really clueless about the situation. You are assuming people in premades plays for achievement and ratio. There are few, yes, but not all of them. I can understand why you believed this way after checking your PvPassia history. This sub character played x 3 frontlines than your main character; not to mention my main character already played more than 10,000 matches. Trust me, I don't care about winning ratio or achievement when I have all of the achievements. There are "a lot" of people likes me plays frontline for the fun. They just want to play with their friends.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

This sub character played x 3 frontlines than your main character; not to mention my main character already played more than 10,000 matches.

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Good for you, would you like a cookie? LOL

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

There are "a lot" of people likes me plays frontline for the fun. They just want to play with their friends.

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You still have the ability to play with your friends. You just do it in teams of 4 instead of 8.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

#EnforceFreelancer

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You're telling me I can't RP as a grand general in Adders or Mael or Flames to lead the team to victory? There are players like us that are grand company loyal. I refuse to be in a grand company that my character is not in. That is not fair.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

I get it. Here's the thing though, what's happening right now with the discord premades (currently Adder goon squad on Aether), isn't healthy for FL overall. What happens when more casual/new players stop playing? Or dodging the 14 man premades because they don't want to get consistently flattened? What about when those that do remain decide they also want easy wins and switch to the GC with freelancer off to get in on the action? I'll tell you what happens, you end up with a dead PVP mode with high queue times.




No it doesn't. Like I said, I've seen smaller 2 or 4 man teams in matches that successfully use their macro's to guide their teams to wins. The game scores are just much closer and the participants have to actually work/work harder for their win instead of LOL ROLLING the other teams.

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This was an issue in HW. Queues were fine despite the GC syncs. They've been fine, since roulettes were introduced people will still go into queue and AFK for Wolf Marks, Exp, and Tomes. Bots will still queue in, you're making it seem like its the end of the world and that PvP will die :V

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Originally Posted by Saintly

There's point in getting angry with me, we are not in the same DC so i'm not part of the PuG's who stomped your 4 man pre. :3

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Thank you for resting my case. There are instances where Premades can be defeated. Forcing Freelancer isn't needed for solo queue.

I hope you have a good day and make sure to put effort when you queue PvP.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Good for you, would you like a cookie? LOL

You still have the ability to play with your friends. You just do it in teams of 4 instead of 8.

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Oh dear, you still didn't get the memo?
There is always a way to by pass the queue restriction and they are still end up on same GC.
It is only annoying hell out of people for no good reason.

On top of the non sense complaints about Battle Fever and Battle High, you are only make yourself double down on your misery. 16 men premade is able to get into same GC and running around killing non stop like a rampage bull. The gauge system makes 10s immunity like a joke where they can just sit at enemy base and spawn killing.

You really need to stop before before makes yourself down to that path

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Originally Posted by A-res

Thank you for resting my case. There are instances where Premades can be defeated. Forcing Freelancer isn't needed for solo queue.

I hope you have a good day and make sure to put effort when you queue PvP.

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I don't see why we arguing all this time since we both agree.
4 Man pre-mades can be defeated, i'm glad we finally agree on that.

8 man/4 man pre that are at least average vs PuG's is the problem.
That's why we've been suggesting to separate premade/solo queue, that way everyone will be happy.

Premade queue that allows for up to 8 man premade parties (or more if possible) to sign.
Solo queue that allows only solo players to sign.

That way, premades can play with their friends and solo's have a premade-free experience, everyone wins.
Everyone except those who want to play as premade vs PuGs that is. :)

Anyway, good day to you too sir!
Also worry not, i make sure to put lots of effort, asap i'll top the healing chart as SCH ill try to do it as PLD.

From what I'm seeing here certain people wants everyone to be thrown on a random team to prevent players from GC stacking. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

While I can somewhat get behind that I'm a bit clueless still as to why some people are insistent on leaving the premade limit to 4 with the current patch that we have.

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Originally Posted by JustNaes

So basically you want FL to devolve into a game of luck rather with your suggestion of implementing permanent Freelancer and the breakdown of 8-mans. With the changes you propose, you're basically rolling the dice to see if you have either:

1.) Prominent FL players, people who listen well, and skilled healers
2.) Bots, AFK farmers, and Griefers who troll shot calls.

The game literally becomes just pure luck where you either roll mostly decent teammates or just horrible players. This is just to make it fair?

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You gotta have more faith in the randos. Yes, those lazy people will exist, but in my games where I try and lead or get people focused, the response usually ends well and people actually try. My incident rate of lazy or afkers is pretty low during prime times. I also don't have an issue with 8 mans, it's them stacking into one GC that is my problem.

In theory, I would love a 24man premade only mode, the games would be exciting, there would be a challenge. But in practice? The queues will die much faster. 8v8v8 isn't suited for premade only, 2 teams may tunnel and let the third team win by objectives only (which I have seen plenty of times), 2 teams may queue with the intention to join forces and base camp the third, win trading would be able to happen much easier.

Premade only mode also still won't address the Maelstrom solo queue problem, without premades in the mix, Mael still gets their easy wins vs the players who AFK, bot, give up because they didn't get placed on Mael, etc. Why should the players that decide to solo queue who want to put an effort into improving and winning funnel into one GC and spend hours queuing just to get competent teammates? Statistically from the frontline standings for the past few years, Maelstrom always has the higher win rate, because it is essentially the premade without forming a premade.

What we need is an 8v8 mode, like capture the flag that is premade only. It would pop frequently only requiring 16 people, it would be fair having no third party to influence the outcome of the match.

this thread is literally the 8th umbral calamity ahaha


pesky mortals attempting to reason with each other when the experienced side holds the factual statements yet the merchants attempt to argue and vocalize their own selfish ideals which have nothing to do with the objective


confound it! .... my popcorn ran out again :(

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Originally Posted by Fang_

It's funny you say "let's not twist it" yet you'll begin this with hyperbole. I have yet to see this 24 man stack you speak of and i've been playing Frontlines since Heavensward. I started as a solo player who never once thought of giving up due to people playing together, it drove me to improve. Comparing this game to a "card game" is another funny twist, this is an mmo, one where you will encounter multiple people who you would want to play with and a lot of us have made friends through this mode and enjoy playing together. The majority of people complaining here about premades dont even know the real problems of players who will literally afk to get their xp/tomes. Those are the issues that have driven most of the players who actually enjoy this mode to seek others to play with.

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Are you really saying because you have not seen it... that mean it doesn't exist? Why else would there be talk about it because it IS happening. Read this thread carefully you will notice were talking about a specific datacenter and grand company. I already explain this tactic is mostly happening because of the backlash of not being able to premade as 8.

My card game example was only to explain that you do not have to be in a team to play with others, you can compete and have a good time. Do you understand

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Originally Posted by BrianRicardo

Are you really saying because you have not seen it... that mean it doesn't exist? Why else would there be talk about it because it IS happening.

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I refuse to believe that this is actually happening. Not because people aren't trying but because it is literally impossible to get 24 people on one GC at a time. Myself and my friends struggle with getting 8-12 in one go. A lot of time people are left out. More times than not. Solo pugs are quick to figure things out and work with it.

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Originally Posted by BrianRicardo

So, let's not twist it. We know the majority goal is to use a loophole, have 90% win rates and eat people for dinner.

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I like you Brian, but this ain't it chief. Honestly the more narrow-minded statement in this thread. While I know people like that exist, I really don't like that you lump myself, my friends, and others into this majority category. Something I can say is that most people that play with 4+ people are just trying to play with them to have fun. I play with my friends to play cooperatively with them, to support them and help them succeed. Also, everyone that has played in a premade has also gone against a premade, they know what it's like to combat that. But it's not impossible to beat a preform party. They have the exact same buttons as anyone else playing. The difference is skill, knowledge, and whether or not their teammates pay attention and have similar skill sets. When I first started playing I went against my friends, who, you guessed it, were in a premade. But instead of making a forum post complaining, I tried to learn how to beat them and mobilize my team against them, I even ASKED them how it is that I could defeat them and in turn I made relationships that lead to friendships. And that was when I really started to enjoy PvP because it became more than 'stack on maelstrom and pray'. Most people want an easy ride to victory, and I don't blame them for that, casual players exist, but don't ruin other people's experience just because you aren't willing to learn or give effort. Cus that's what all of this bullshit boils down to.

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Originally Posted by JuliusRath

I refuse to believe that this is actually happening. Not because people aren't trying but because it is literally impossible to get 24 people on one GC at a time. Myself and my friends struggle with getting 8-12 in one go. A lot of time people are left out. More times than not. Solo pugs are quick to figure things out and work with it.




I like you Brian, but this ain't it chief. Honestly the more narrow-minded statement in this thread. While I know people like that exist, I really don't like that you lump myself, my friends, and others into this majority category. Something I can say is that most people that play with 4+ people are just trying to play with them to have fun. I play with my friends to play cooperatively with them, to support them and help them succeed. Also, everyone that has played in a premade has also gone against a premade, they know what it's like to combat that. But it's not impossible to beat a preform party. They have the exact same buttons as anyone else playing. The difference is skill, knowledge, and whether or not their teammates pay attention and have similar skill sets. When I first started playing I went against my friends, who, you guessed it, were in a premade. But instead of making a forum post complaining, I tried to learn how to beat them and mobilize my team against them, I even ASKED them how it is that I could defeat them and in turn I made relationships that lead to friendships. And that was when I really started to enjoy PvP because it became more than 'stack on maelstrom and pray'. Most people want an easy ride to victory, and I don't blame them for that, casual players exist, but don't ruin other people's experience just because you aren't willing to learn or give effort. Cus that's what all of this bullshit boils down to.

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Just wanted to get this straight. You admit to abusing the system.That the system is not working as intended to limit groups to four. That you can get at least three times the accepted preorganized (lets not use preformed that upsets people).
Not you specifically, but man does this game have some of the worst GM and community service in any game I have ever seen. It is better when the game has none. Or just wait you guys will have it really fixed since SE doesn't want to police PvP. You will end up with freelancer on everyone.


Here is why you get lumped into a giant group of wonderful people. Maybe you can contain yourselves and do PvP and also the objectives of the match. A polling of people who have seen premades and have been in premades, MO is farm kills. Don't kill drones, don't secure nodes, don't shatter ice just farm players till the game is over. They don't actually seem to care if they win or lose just get as many kills as possible. It actually isn't so bad on Crystal not sure what its like on others. They are the first to complain that other things give points besides kills and first to blame the losing team for not being blood thirsty enough. As if random match ups are fair, we didn't have bad healers today we had multiple games with 3,2 and a couple with 1 today.



The more comments I see the stronger I feel about splitting frontlines. It is clear your side wants nothing to do with the casuals and wants to blame them. Yes your post is accusatory people didn't group up like you so they get what they deserve. You think you have enough people to support your ques you should be in separate ques.

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Originally Posted by BrianRicardo

Are you really saying because you have not seen it... that mean it doesn't exist? Why else would there be talk about it because it IS happening. Read this thread carefully you will notice were talking about a specific datacenter and grand company. I already explain this tactic is mostly happening because of the backlash of not being able to premade as 8.

My card game example was only to explain that you do not have to be in a team to play with others, you can compete and have a good time. Do you understand

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Unfortunately it's you who still fails to understand, brian. Throughout my time playing FL i have made several friends who, like me, enjoy playing this game mode together. This is not like your poorly given example of a game of cards, we're not all in the same room and able to talk/laugh together. Some people don't have mics or third party programs so how do we go about laughing together? We do it through the chat box system in the game, this cannot be achieved on separate teams. Do you understand.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Just wanted to get this straight. You admit to abusing the system.

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It's not abuse, it's utilizing the system to play with friends. Abusing would be the use of a bug, this however, has been in the game all along. Before the limitation to a 4 man group, my friends would play in an 8 man, and if someone else wanted to play too, they would have to wait their turn. SE took that away from us, so we are optimizing what they have left us with. There is no problem with that.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

but man does this game have some of the worst GM and community service in any game I have ever seen.

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I guess you've never played WoW or Tera or any many other MMOs...

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

They don't actually seem to care if they win or lose just get as many kills as possible.

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Is that wrong...? My team always seeks victory. But we're free to reach that point however we choose. By 'hitting ice', 'securing nodes' and 'killing drones' you're basically wanting people to play the PvE objective... in a PvP mode. There's nothing wrong with wanting to win by kills because the goal is still the same, you're just upset people want to get there by different means.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

The more comments I see the stronger I feel about splitting frontlines. It is clear your side wants nothing to do with the casuals and wants to blame them.

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Dude, I am the filthiest Bronze casual you will ever see. I don't blame casual players for being casual, I am one. I blame them for bitching about not winning when there are people that are better than them. SE still give you your 'participation trophy' in the form of wolf marks even if you lose. If you want to win; practice, coordinate and learn from people that have more experience.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Yes your post is accusatory people didn't group up like you so they get what they deserve.

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Yes, that's exactly it. They aren't grouping up and coordinating, so yes, they should lose. You're literally justifying my statement. idk why everyone thinks that coming in together means that SE hands them the game on a golden plate, it's EARNED. And we've lost before, more times than I can even recall. Preformed parties aren't invincible, you just have to read your opponent. You know, like what you should do anyway in PvP.

Trust me, if there was a Premade only queue, I'd be over the fucking moon. But there isn't, and NO ONE would queue for it. Many other premades already avoid us in Frontline, PvP simply doesn't have the player base.

Look, the problem, again, isn't the premades. It's the mentality people have about PvP and preformed. By creating posts like this, casuals will see that and just point fingers and become discouraged. That's not our goal, that shouldn't be anyone's goal. So saying that premades are ruining frontline is just steering people away. You're signing them and yourself up for defeat even before you get in the ring.

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Originally Posted by JuliusRath

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You clearly have played MMOs for a bit. Just because something is in the game and players can use it doesn't mean it is not an abuse. If you need an example ask some 2.0 players about coil. WoW up to LK had way better support, interaction, and oversite then this game ever has. I hated that blue crab, but he did more and made more was looked after then years SE has. Hell 11 has better oversite.


You can win anyway you want. Doesn't change the fact frontlines is an objective based pvp mode, not a kill based pvp mode. PvP doesn't mean kill it means players not competing vs AI. That does not belittle the other PvE objective. If we are all hitting the ice it is still PvP we all get a score. One side wasn't controlled by an AI to score against you.


Earned you already have an advantage of working out a party composition. Keep patting yourself on the back. I won't even say chat is an advantage. Because I could find those old annoying macros from 3.0 and spam the hell out of them till people listen.



Last point I actually feel like you are justifying others point, by saying they would duck a premade only. Also justifying my point, not enough of your group to support a premade only que. But then complain when the suggestion is made you play the mode the same as everyone else.


Maybe someone should just ask SE to mail the rewards to premades because they earned it by queing as a group. I guess we will see maybe this will all blow over and SE will not do anything. Or maybe they will implement more scorched earth policy.

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Originally Posted by JuliusRath

Trust me, if there was a Premade only queue, I'd be over the fucking moon. But there isn't, and NO ONE would queue for it. Many other premades already avoid us in Frontline, PvP simply doesn't have the player base.

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And why's that? Exactly cause people want easy wins vs PuGs.

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Originally Posted by Saintly

And why's that? Exactly cause people want easy wins vs PuGs.

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Is this what you want to hear us say?
Yes I want to play an MMO with my friends.
Talk on discord or in party chat.
And yes! Beat on the people that made us want to group up in the first place.
If I wanted to be miserable with three other people in PvP I'd go play Rival Wings. We just want to play with our friends, who happen to be more than three people.

When my PvP friends were playing, we'd group up in a group of 8 and just have fun with the match. We lost a lot, but that's because we were doing stuff like going all nin in stealth (back in HW), and use all of our LB on one person at the same time for laughs to surprise players on the other team.
Far from meta strats. We wouldn't be able to do it now though, as they removed 24 man, and cut it down to 4 people per party queue. Our messing around for fun would just bring others down now..

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Originally Posted by Newmanxeno

Is this what you want to hear us say?
If I wanted to be miserable with three other people in PvP I'd go play Rival Wings.

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There's also Aurum Vale, you can queue that outside of peak times and if the friends aren't avaliable and you have to queue for it on your own - at least you know it'll pop.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

There's also Aurum Vale, you can queue that outside of peak times and if the friends aren't avaliable and you have to queue for it on your own - at least you know it'll pop.

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I said in PvP. I already queue a lot of Feast Training to be miserable by myself in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Newmanxeno

Is this what you want to hear us say?
Yes I want to play an MMO with my friends.
Talk on discord or in party chat.
And yes! Beat on the people that made us want to group up in the first place.
If I wanted to be miserable with three other people in PvP I'd go play Rival Wings. We just want to play with our friends, who happen to be more than three people.

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I didn't ask to hear anything.
I just pointed out the reason that premades don't want a premade only queue, even if that means that it'll allow them to play with their friends since that's what pre-supporters claim to be the issue.

how do all these people from NA and EU think ANY data center could support two seperate ques

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Originally Posted by Saintly

I didn't ask to hear anything.

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There would be no queue. All premades don't pick a time and say "Yes, this is when we will crush the pugs with our other premade buddies." At most you see two out or smaller groups. So why would we even want to agree to this arbitrary "Premade Queue?"
These aren't "easy" wins either, maybe 24 mans but those are another thing. Trying to corral the 16 other people isn't easy.
All this has done is push people into a corner and made them push back with GC queues.