Play poll: No Open world vs Instanced world?

plain and simple BOTH have a purpose and should be used. neither should be put off to the side.

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Originally Posted by indira

plain and simple BOTH have a purpose and should be used. neither should be put off to the side.

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Of course. That's the case now, that was the case in FFXI, that's the case in WOW, and almost every other MMO. Rokien just likes to exaggerate and come up with scenarios where everything is 100% instanced and you just hang out in a single hub city and then never see another player.

You folks do realize that there are other MMOs out there besides GW, WoW, and FFXI right? There are other MMOs that have had slight differences in the way they did some of there raid content that may be more accurate to what some of you want.


Like it or not, we need open world HNMs, open world dungeons, and open world raids. We need them because there are just as many players that want them as there are who want instanced raids and dungeans. It would be foolish to exclude one group or the other by limiting content. We need all of the above, hands down, no questions asked. Argueing as if we should exclude one or the other is counter productive.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

You folks do realize that there are other MMOs out there besides GW, WoW, and FFXI right? There are other MMOs that have had slight differences in the way they did some of there raid content that may be more accurate to what some of you want.

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I'm giving examples of MMOs that everyone has played or is at least passively familiar with. I could just as easily do some RuneScape, Neopets, RIFT, Wakfu, or whatever.

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Like it or not, we need open world HNMs, open world dungeons, and open world raids. We need them because there are just as many players that want them as there are who want instanced raids and dungeans.

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No there aren't. The open world people are just loud as all hell and have been making topics non-stop since the f**king beta forums. The vast majority of MMO players these days prefer instanced content over open world because they don't like not being able to do something because someone with more free time on their hands beat them to it.

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It would be foolish to exclude one group or the other by limiting content.

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Nobody's limiting your content, they're trying to get you to be able to do it more often at a pace that you decide. That's the entire point of instances. Whatever fight that you want to see in the open world can be recreated in an instanced fashion so that everyone can do it whenever.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

No there aren't. The open world people are just loud as all hell and have been making topics non-stop since the f**king beta forums. The vast majority of MMO players these days prefer instanced content over open world because they don't like not being able to do something because someone with more free time on their hands beat them to it.

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You are so direly confussed by having said this, I am feeling charitable enough to mail you a dollar so you can step out of the house and buy yourself a clue.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

You are so direly confussed by having said this, I am feeling charitable enough to mail you a dollar so you can step out of the house and buy yourself a clue.

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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

See question #10.

Q.E.D.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

See question #10.

Q.E.D.

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lol /thread.

look at the one above it, that didn't happen.

Question 10 ask about the target claiming system and offers a very specific hypothetical limitation.

While your out buying yourself that clue, drop by and pick up "Reading Comprehension for Dummies"

Not too mention the link you posted is
Letter from the Producer, V (03/03/2011)

Last I checked this is 2012.

people cry about ffxi open world low drops, what about all the darkmatter in instance chest you still gain nothing.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Question 10 ask about the target claiming system and offers a very specific hypothetical limitation.

While your out buying yourself that clue, drop by and pick up "Reading Comprehension for Dummies"

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Oh my, you're serious. I suggest you take a look at the backfire effect.

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/...ckfire-effect/

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Originally Posted by indira

people cry about ffxi open world low drops, what about all the darkmatter in instance chest you still gain nothing.

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at least you get to fight instead of watching people fight.

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at least you get to fight instead of watching people fight.

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going after gear and getting nothing is still the same open world or instanced and you can still fight in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

OK, this is seriously one of my biggest issues with the game, and it is a big issue. I don't want them to take out the best thing in the game and make it instanced(this)
I think before they go all out on these instances, they should ask the people!

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if i see another instance. I'm done with this game. Dzmael was a fail. So is cutter's cry and the other one. Public dungeon or shut game down.

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Originally Posted by TypeZ

if i see another instance. I'm done with this game. Dzmael was a fail. So is cutter's cry and the other one. Public dungeon or shut game down.

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Instances are fine, they just can't be overwhelming open world content like they are.

The RNMs were great addition and they are still fun, need more things like that.

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Originally Posted by TypeZ

if i see another instance. I'm done with this game. Dzmael was a fail. So is cutter's cry and the other one. Public dungeon or shut game down.

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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

at least you get to fight instead of watching people fight.

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whoa, your telling me you want no competition?...so because you dont want the competition...that means i have to suffer?

Instanced content needs to be balanced with open world content.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

whoa, your telling me you want no competition?...so because you dont want the competition...that means i have to suffer?

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I didn't say that. Im not against open world, i enjoyed stronghold thoroughly. Im against people that are against instanced for particularly no valid reason.

Both can co-exist.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

whoa, your telling me you want no competition?...so because you dont want the competition...that means i have to suffer?

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You can still have your dumb PVE competitions with instanced content.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

look at the one above it, that didn't happen.

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You mean it hasn't happened..... yet

Coglin there is no reason to be a condensing prick to people, you think we will take you seriously if all you can use are sarcasm and name calling.

im fine with instancing, however im not fine with the commonly abused "how the fuck did i go from A cave to the top of a volcano" or the "How in the hell did i go from a dead end maze to a small clearing in Thornemarsh"

i want to climb up the volcano with flame aspected mobs and Amjali Warriors to potentially halt my progress before kicking ifrits ass yet again. I want to zone into the thornemarsh to see a new area to explore and maybe fight Garlean troopers and there Mechs on the way to yet another Moogle win. these can be open area's.

Open Areas with Triggers, is the only way to go. Want to fight Ifrit Trigger it by placing a lamp on a pedestal to open the gate to his lare....want to fight the moogles trigger it by using the keystones to bring down there hedge(barrier). this can be instanced.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

You can still have your dumb PVE competitions with instanced content.

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Its completely different. completely. Just because you dont want to do to do it, doesnt mean I shouldnt be allowed too.

More open, less instanced Please.

Caveat: Make instances NOT have requirements. Maybe people want a challenge, want to farm, get AF chest, w/e. Stop it with the party size requirements and fix your servers!!

There should be a mix of open and instanced content like in XI. The last thing I want Is something like Dungeon Fighter Fantasy just because people aren't sociable and can't comprehend the massive multiplayer aspect of a MMO.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

There should be a mix of open and instanced content like in XI. The last thing I want Is something like Dungeon Fighter Fantasy just because people aren't sociable and can't comprehend the massive multiplayer aspect of a MMO.

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Agreed! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Play vindicuts.......
Or gw1 ;)

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Hyperbole much?

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Originally Posted by Quesse

More open, less instanced Please.

Caveat: Make instances NOT have requirements. Maybe people want a challenge, want to farm, get AF chest, w/e. Stop it with the party size requirements and fix your servers!!

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I'd like to see timers and party size requirements removed, although I would like to see a level cap on dungeons just because Toto-rak is much better if you are forced to do it at lvl 30.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

Its completely different. completely. Just because you dont want to do to do it, doesnt mean I shouldnt be allowed too.

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And just because you want to compete with others does not mean that those others want to compete with you. Now what?

I just miss sky from XI.....i think it is the perfect example of how to build open world content, I feel that once they implement an alliance party format (possibly 2 to 3 groups of 8 teaming together) it will broaden the spectrum of open world

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

im fine with instancing, however im not fine with the commonly abused "how the fuck did i go from A cave to the top of a volcano" or the "How in the hell did i go from a dead end maze to a small clearing in Thornemarsh"

i want to climb up the volcano with flame aspected mobs and Amjali Warriors to potentially halt my progress before kicking ifrits ass yet again. I want to zone into the thornemarsh to see a new area to explore and maybe fight Garlean troopers and there Mechs on the way to yet another Moogle win. these can be open area's.

Open Areas with Triggers, is the only way to go. Want to fight Ifrit Trigger it by placing a lamp on a pedestal to open the gate to his lare....want to fight the moogles trigger it by using the keystones to bring down there hedge(barrier). this can be instanced.

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Hellz yes. :x Sounds awesome.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

whoa, your telling me you want no competition?...so because you dont want the competition...that means i have to suffer?

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I think rather than argue unconstructively, we all need to come together and talk of a way to make Open World - and Instanced situations coexist. Lets show SE a way to have the best of both worlds to cater to both sides of this tea party.

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

I think rather than argue unconstructively, we all need to come together and talk of a way to make Open World - and Instanced situations coexist. Lets show SE a way to have the best of both worlds to cater to both sides of this tea party.

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Make a boss spawn open world. Then make the same boss spawn in an instanced fashion ala leve mobs. Then the crybabies who want open world competitiveness can stick to killing the un-instanced boss over and over while the rest of us kill the instanced one with no hassle.

Okay, here's my suggestion on how to make everyone happy:

Open world

The problem I've most witnessed people complain about in regard to having events focused in the open world, especially endgame, is situations of monopolization.

People don't want to be handed things, the just want a fair shake at them without other players stepping on their toes. Sky was great in theory, but it quickly turned into a voke macro showdown with RMT bots included.

Bounty System

I think a good way to keep any one mob from being a claim fest would be to remove the drops from the mobs themselves.

At this point it would be a two-fold endeavor. The Grand Companies have heard that there are schematics hidden in ruins around Eorzea for ancient and powerful equipment. However, recent events have awoken powerful monsters and they are terrorizing the land. Because of this, the Companies must focus their full attention on the beasts and ignore what could be a wild chocobo chase.

Expedition Forces

At a certain rank, the Grand Company has enough trust in you to divulge the location of known ruins. If you're so inclined, you can investigate. These are seperate zones, but not instances. Their only requirement for entrance is being of a certain rank. After all, even access to Sky was contingent on story progression.

These open world areas are full of dangerous foes and pitfalls. It's up to the player to explore and discover where the schematics are located. Ultimately, they're a drop from a boss like abjurations in Sky. The schematics are U/U.

Bounty Points

So you've found some schematics. Or you just want to help fight the good fight.

Either way, the Companies' master craftsmen can't be bothered with the schematics when they're so busy churning out equipment and supplies for soldiers to take on these new beasts roaming the land.

The Grand Companies are willing to make a deal, they'll get you the attention of their master craftsmen if you aid in the battle against the roaming NMs.

Each time a player participates in a kill on an NM, they get a certain amount of "Bounty Points." These can be accumulated for the big prize or, for those not interested in the schematics, for Company Seals.

Instances

Some people just want to schedule an LS event and play on their own schedule, this should be tailored to them.

The Base Item

The story is short and sweet: Grand Companies aren't the only citizens of Eorzea aware of the schematics. It is rumored that the Beast Tribes of Eorzea have been creating weaponry based on their own versions of the same schematics.

In each of the strongholds is an entrance to an instanced raid. The Amalj'aa Armory, the Kobold Foundry and the Ixali Floating Keep.

These raids eventually lead to a battle against a boss who drops a weaker version of the open world items.

The Upgrade

Garlean Magitek can do many wonderous things, including enhance weaponry of a specific design.

Players can partake in difficult instanced raids on Garlean outposts in search of a functioning one-time-use piece of Magitek that will upgrade their specific equipment to the Open World version.

Conclusion

There's a balance in all of this. In the open world, you're not guaranteed a chance at the fight, but when you get claim and win you at least make some form of personal progress. In the instances your guaranteed a chance at the battle on your own schedule, but drop rates are low and require getting two specific drops per item.

Ideally, both would be designed to take about the same amount of time. But both are influenced by luck. In the open world, a player may never get in on a kill or could just be around for all of them. The instances could go over like Dynamis -- I know people who head RDM hats hitting the ground whereas my LS saw three drop in as many years.

This all leaves it up to the player to chose. There's plenty in the open world to explore and even terrible beasties to bump into.

Everyone can choose their own path to the same items while still having to put in a significant amount of time.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Make a boss spawn open world. Then make the same boss spawn in an instanced fashion ala leve mobs. Then the crybabies who want open world competitiveness can stick to killing the un-instanced boss over and over while the rest of us kill the instanced one with no hassle.

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LOL yea and those same cry babies will whine up that we shouldn't have the same right to walk into an instance and be spoon fed boss encounters.

You can't win with those type of people.

It all comes down to epeen really, some people just feel superior getting the claim and being like "look at us fighting this big awesome boss"

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Originally Posted by Jinko

It all comes down to epeen really, some people just feel superior getting the claim and being like "look at us fighting this big awesome boss"

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That's all it is.

They want bragging rights because they managed to steal an opportunity away and ruin someone else's day.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

And just because you want to compete with others does not mean that those others want to compete with you. Now what?

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Then i dont know.. dont?

If you dont want to do it, then dont. But just because you dont want too. Doesnt mean people that want to.. should not able too.

Example: if you only liked pve content and didnt like pvp content. well that doesnt mean it shouldnt be implemented for the people that do.

Thats like forcing me to do something just because you dont want to.

But me saying this will likely get flamed to hell by you and jinko. oh well.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Okay, here's my suggestion on how to make everyone happy:

Open world

The problem I've most witnessed people complain about in regard to having events focused in the open world, especially endgame, is situations of monopolization.

People don't want to be handed things, the just want a fair shake at them without other players stepping on their toes. Sky was great in theory, but it quickly turned into a voke macro showdown with RMT bots included.

Bounty System

I think a good way to keep any one mob from being a claim fest would be to remove the drops from the mobs themselves.

At this point it would be a two-fold endeavor. The Grand Companies have heard that there are schematics hidden in ruins around Eorzea for ancient and powerful equipment. However, recent events have awoken powerful monsters and they are terrorizing the land. Because of this, the Companies must focus their full attention on the beasts and ignore what could be a wild chocobo chase.

Expedition Forces

At a certain rank, the Grand Company has enough trust in you to divulge the location of known ruins. If you're so inclined, you can investigate. These are seperate zones, but not instances. Their only requirement for entrance is being of a certain rank. After all, even access to Sky was contingent on story progression.

These open world areas are full of dangerous foes and pitfalls. It's up to the player to explore and discover where the schematics are located. Ultimately, they're a drop from a boss like abjurations in Sky. The schematics are U/U.

Bounty Points

So you've found some schematics. Or you just want to help fight the good fight.

Either way, the Companies' master craftsmen can't be bothered with the schematics when they're so busy churning out equipment and supplies for soldiers to take on these new beasts roaming the land.

The Grand Companies are willing to make a deal, they'll get you the attention of their master craftsmen if you aid in the battle against the roaming NMs.

Each time a player participates in a kill on an NM, they get a certain amount of "Bounty Points." These can be accumulated for the big prize or, for those not interested in the schematics, for Company Seals.

Instances

Some people just want to schedule an LS event and play on their own schedule, this should be tailored to them.

The Base Item

The story is short and sweet: Grand Companies aren't the only citizens of Eorzea aware of the schematics. It is rumored that the Beast Tribes of Eorzea have been creating weaponry based on their own versions of the same schematics.

In each of the strongholds is an entrance to an instanced raid. The Amalj'aa Armory, the Kobold Foundry and the Ixali Floating Keep.

These raids eventually lead to a battle against a boss who drops a weaker version of the open world items.

The Upgrade

Garlean Magitek can do many wonderous things, including enhance weaponry of a specific design.

Players can partake in difficult instanced raids on Garlean outposts in search of a functioning one-time-use piece of Magitek that will upgrade their specific equipment to the Open World version.

Conclusion

There's a balance in all of this. In the open world, you're not guaranteed a chance at the fight, but when you get claim and win you at least make some form of personal progress. In the instances your guaranteed a chance at the battle on your own schedule, but drop rates are low and require getting two specific drops per item.

Ideally, both would be designed to take about the same amount of time. But both are influenced by luck. In the open world, a player may never get in on a kill or could just be around for all of them. The instances could go over like Dynamis -- I know people who head RDM hats hitting the ground whereas my LS saw three drop in as many years.

This all leaves it up to the player to chose. There's plenty in the open world to explore and even terrible beasties to bump into.

Everyone can choose their own path to the same items while still having to put in a significant amount of time.

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Interesting but I sort of see a problem with this. Why do the raids to get the weak gear to then have to do more raids to make them as good as the open world stuff when you can get a bunch of people together and just zerg-fest easy kill the open world and get the best gear? Of course it goes the other way as well... why do the open world stuff if the best of the best gear comes from raids.

Really there is almost no way to make both parties of this happy and in the end more then likely neither side will give way to the other or try to see eye to eye. You could make it to where raids drop the best of the best gear and that open world drops stuff equal to it but must be made by a crafter so the open world people have to kill x NMs to get the drops needed to make the items... Who know as I said you humans will fight each other about such things till the end of time.

I would love for you all to prove me wrong but I am sure you can't can you? oooo a challenge!

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

Interesting but I sort of see a problem with this. Why do the raids to get the weak gear to then have to do more raids to make them as good as the open world stuff when you can get a bunch of people together and just zerg-fest easy kill the open world and get the best gear? Of course it goes the other way as well... why do the open world stuff if the best of the best gear comes from raids.

Really there is almost no way to make both parties of this happy and in the end more then likely neither side will give way to the other or try to see eye to eye. You could make it to where raids drop the best of the best gear and that open world drops stuff equal to it but must be made by a crafter so the open world people have to kill x NMs to get the drops needed to make the items... Who know as I said you humans will fight each other about such things till the end of time.

I would love for you all to prove me wrong but I am sure you can't can you? oooo a challenge!

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Mainly I was just trying to come up with a way to make instances take as long as open world stuff without too low of a drop rate.

Plus, the caveat is in the open world everyone is making progress whereas in instances fewer people of your group will have items but you'll be "playing the game" on your own schedule.

At the end of the day, Yoshida said the game will focus on instances. And that's why I'm still here. I had my fill of open world claim fests. If that's what I wanted, I'd go find a game with that instead of trying to force it elsewhere. It'd be like going to the Skyrim forums and pOsting "Why no guns, lulz?"

I know my idea wasn't perfect. But it was an attempt at common ground. And both paths have balanced positives and negatives while remaining unique experiences.

Of course the simplest dilution is to make a raid version of each open world dungeon and make two versions of the same reward that are identical accept for their name so that open world people can gloat that they have the "non-instance version."

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Mainly I was just trying to come up with a way to make instances take as long as open world stuff without too low of a drop rate.

Plus, the caveat is in the open world everyone is making progress whereas in instances fewer people of your group will have items but you'll be "playing the game" on your own schedule.

At the end of the day, Yoshida said the game will focus on instances. And that's why I'm still here. I had my fill of open world claim fests. If that's what I wanted, I'd go find a game with that instead of trying to force it elsewhere. It'd be like going to the Skyrim forums and pOsting "Why no guns, lulz?"

I know my idea wasn't perfect. But it was an attempt at common ground. And both paths have balanced positives and negatives while remaining unique experiences.

Of course the simplest dilution is to make a raid version of each open world dungeon and make two versions of the same reward that are identical accept for their name so that open world people can gloat that they have the "non-instance version."

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Oh I liked the idea and I thought it was very good and also you may be right that they will need to make 2 versions of the same instance to make both sides of this happy... It is just interesting how many of the people on both sides will not stop and try to think of something like you did to make a good system for both parties to get the gear and be happy and have lots of content...

The cat is bemused =-.-=