Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Did they change their names?

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Nope. They adopted Source-friendly aliases while they were in Eorzea, though it's now apparent that some had to adapt a little more than others.

Source friendly meaning they had to pick names that don't sound alien? Or to hide their identities? Because some look like they're pronounced the same, but with different spelling.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Source friendly meaning they had to pick names that don't sound alien? Or to hide their identities? Because some look like they're pronounced the same, but with different spelling.

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I think the former is the most likely option, that and people might want to know where they came from if their names were out of the ordinary.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

In the category of "lines Koji changed because they were too obvious":

When Thancred is holding off Ran'jit in Amh Areng, he declares, "I won't let you get in the way of my kid sister or my daughter!" (Referring to the upcoming meeting of the Minfilias.) In the Japanese voice track, at least. It's the first time he's ever put his relationships with either of them in words, so I couldn't help but be a little disappointed at how much of his emotional honesty was cut out of the English script. It seems weird (to me, anyway) that such a clear, definitive moment in his arc would be rewritten into something less so, but I'm not the Localization Director.

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Guess they....

Did this ebcause they didn't want Thancred's relationship with Ryne to become a Brother and Sister relationship and more of a Father and Daughter relationship.

We can only assume the many reasons why but for me I am guess it is because Thancred is actually old enough to be more of a Father than Brother figure due to being in his 30s now.

On another topic...

This has only come to mind that the upcoming Warriors of Light we fight maybe the remaining 6 Fragments of WoL's soul (or should i say original Soul). We know that WoL's soul was split into 13 shards when the world Split due to the Lore and each Calamity would fuse the Shard Souls into the Source Soul.

However, being 13 beings created fromt the same Soul but have completely different appearances and gender, this may be also a Lore reason why our character can look so different from the other Warriors of Light from the other Shards which are basically the WoL/WoD's Doppelgangers.

Heck, our character may not even look like what they are now before the Sundering of the Source into 13 shards.

I suspect the upcoming battles against the Warriors of Light maybe a battle to determine which will become the Dominant Personality in control of the body once all remaining 6 Souls fuse together.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Guess they....

Did this ebcause they didn't want Thancred's relationship with Ryne to become a Brother and Sister relationship and more of a Father and Daughter relationship.

We can only assume the many reasons why but for me I am guess it is because Thancred is actually old enough to be more of a Father than Brother figure due to being in his 30s now.

On another topic...

This has only come to mind that the upcoming Warriors of Light we fight maybe the remaining 6 Fragments of WoL's soul (or should i say original Soul). We know that WoL's soul was split into 13 shards when the world Split due to the Lore and each Calamity would fuse the Shard Souls into the Source Soul.

However, being 13 beings created fromt the same Soul but have completely different appearances and gender, this may be also a Lore reason why our character can look so different from the other Warriors of Light from the other Shards which are basically the WoL/WoD's Doppelgangers.

Heck, our character may not even look like what they are now before the Sundering of the Source into 13 shards.

I suspect the upcoming battles against the Warriors of Light maybe a battle to determine which will become the Dominant Personality in control of the body once all remaining 6 Souls fuse together.

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In regards to your first conjecture

I can only assume you meant our Minfillia, because that was meant to be the brother-sister relationship.

In regards to the second

it would be 5 warriors. Before the Frst calamity souls on the source were 1/14. After it they were 2/14. So after the 7th calamity and the beginning of ARR we would be 8/14 of the originals. Ardbert joins his soul unto ours to bring us upto 9/14. That leaves 5 fragments.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

In regards to your first conjecture

I can only assume you meant our Minfillia, because that was meant to be the brother-sister relationship.

In regards to the second

it would be 5 warriors. Before the Frst calamity souls on the source were 1/14. After it they were 2/14. So after the 7th calamity and the beginning of ARR we would be 8/14 of the originals. Ardbert joins his soul unto ours to bring us upto 9/14. That leaves 5 fragments.

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About that...

We already know one of those souls i believe. Maybe that was the reason Elidibus saved Unukalhai from the Flood of Darkness since he was described as being "like us". If the more meta plot really is moving towards us becoming "whole" again that could have some ...fun implications.

But i wonder WHY a servant of Zodiark would choose to spare/recomplete the person who was probably responsible for the summoning of Hydaelyn. So they can face justice? Mayhaps there's a lot more sentimentality involved as Emet-Selch would suggest.

So how about that...

Young G'raha Tia in the Source will awaken in 5.1 MSQ since Old G'raha Tia cannot retrun to the Source and must remain in the First for the rest of his life. Thus Young G'raha Tia must awaken early to take up his role in the Source version of the Crystal Tower.

I hope to see a reunion between G'raha Tia and the rest of NOAH in 5.1 MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Guiballad

About that...

We already know one of those souls i believe. Maybe that was the reason Elidibus saved Unukalhai from the Flood of Darkness since he was described as being "like us". If the more meta plot really is moving towards us becoming "whole" again that could have some ...fun implications.

But i wonder WHY a servant of Zodiark would choose to spare/recomplete the person who was probably responsible for the summoning of Hydaelyn. So they can face justice? Mayhaps there's a lot more sentimentality involved as Emet-Selch would suggest.

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I expect the thought process is a bit like...

There's some sentimentality involved, but also they probably want the soul to remember what happened, just so they can go 'you idiot, you moron, look at what you've done!'. I mean, when you live for millennia, simple grudges can go a really long way.

The other part is maybe hoping that once the WoL is fully rejoined, they might realize the full scale of what happened and side with them in helping to undo everything that happened. The Rejoining can't be fully completed with the 13th shard as is, and the Ascians lack a means of restoring it to a state where it can be rejoined - but the WoL might be capable of doing that (and possibly already had the potential to do it if Emet-Selch didn't decide to be a prideful idiot and take our light over there, instead of forcing us to kill him with it). Elidibus probably went full murder mode in the meantime because he figured this current incarnation is now too brainwashed to listen.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Also the Elvaan mage, I guess she died and was replaced?

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This was addressed way back when it was revealed that the Magus of Darkness was male instead of female, like the one on the source. Basically, Koji said that each "party" is different. Which given newly gained info about the fragmented souls, it makes sense that they could be different genders.

Also did anyone else notice that the 3 dungeon lightwardens are all named after a form of love and correlate to an event prior to that dungeon

So when the Exarch was explaining how calamities work, he shows 13 shards and shows them one by one glowing with an elemental aura and then a stream of that element overloading on the Source, causing the respective shard to be rejoined. We see Fire, Water, Wind, Ice, Lightning, Earth, and finally a blackish/redish aura corresponding to the 7th Umbral Calamity. Problem is, the 7th UC wasn't caused by aether overloading the Source resulting in a Firestorm/Flood/Hurricane/Ice Age/Thunder Storm/Earthquake etc. It was caused by mankind dropping Dalamud onto Eorzea. Events that were independent of aetheric balance being tipped. We know Bahamut was aspected to Astral (Darkness) and he can draw on the power of the Sun as the Dawn Wyrm (makes sense given his luminescent and brilliant "flare" attacks. So can someone elaborate more?

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

So during the Role Quest, we see the names of the WoD's party as the following:

Lamitt
Renda-Rae
Nyelbert
Branden

But during 3.2 Soul Surrender, those same individuals are named:

Lamimi
J'rhoomale
Naillbert
Brynden

Did they change their names? Also the Elvaan mage, I guess she died and was replaced?

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Ardbert mentions that they took on fake names while on the source.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

So when the Exarch was explaining how calamities work, he shows 13 shards and shows them one by one glowing with an elemental aura and then a stream of that element overloading on the Source, causing the respective shard to be rejoined. We see Fire, Water, Wind, Ice, Lightning, Earth, and finally a blackish/redish aura corresponding to the 7th Umbral Calamity. Problem is, the 7th UC wasn't caused by aether overloading the Source resulting in a Firestorm/Flood/Hurricane/Ice Age/Thunder Storm/Earthquake etc. It was caused by mankind dropping Dalamud onto Eorzea. Events that were independent of aetheric balance being tipped. We know Bahamut was aspected to Astral (Darkness) and he can draw on the power of the Sun as the Dawn Wyrm (makes sense given his luminescent and brilliant "flare" attacks. So can someone elaborate more?

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Bahamut is neutral, like his attack, no element was added with the 7th calamity, simply neutral Aether.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

So during the Role Quest, we see the names of the WoD's party as the following:

Lamitt
Renda-Rae
Nyelbert
Branden

But during 3.2 Soul Surrender, those same individuals are named:

Lamimi
J'rhoomale
Naillbert
Brynden

Did they change their names? Also the Elvaan mage, I guess she died and was replaced?

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Well in universe, I bet it was Urianger that was responsible for the names used by the four (3 of the above with Ardbert) on the Source. Also Brandon never came to the Source, that was Urianger the entire time, using a Urianger'ed version of the name.

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Originally Posted by Nightsword

Well in universe, I bet it was Urianger that was responsible for the names used by the four (3 of the above with Ardbert) on the Source. Also Brandon never came to the Source, that was Urianger the entire time, using a Urianger'ed version of the name.

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Branden/Brynden was the Roe Paladin. He did appear during the WoD storyline.

Just finished MSQ and it was really fast paced and intense like never before.

I was hoping to somehow meet Arbert on the first so I was really happy to have him as companion and liked his development. The fate of the other 4 WoDs was really tragic and so far having done only healer role quests I wish to hurry up and complete the rest, so that I can save them (alhough canonically it seems we saved them already).

I too got the impression that WoL was 14th council member which retired, got fragmented and then rejoined 7 times. I think WoL rejoined with Arbert who was also a fragment of WoL, although not entirely sure of this due to how the weapon dissipated and also him rejoining with his party.

Can't say I was very fond of Amaurot traditions as they seemed to prohibit any individuality (external, at least).

At moments I was starting to symphasise with Solus, but they were shortlived. In the end Solus remained a true Amaurotine, because he cared for nothing but Amaurot, just like the past Amaurotines cared not to stop the calamity until it started threatening their city.

Speaking about Exarch, I never doubted that he was G'raha. About halfway through expansion I accidentally found out about his minion and I was so so worried that he will die... After a while I remembered that not all minion predecesors died, so it helped a bit, but I was never sure that he will survive. Also dearest Urianger, always apologising for doing his best to save us.

I wish we could have learned more about old kingdoms, but I have not done any of normal side quests so there's still hope.

I wonder who it was that drew Zodiark story murals. I guess it was surviving Originals, since fragmented people could not remember what was before the split according to Solus? I think they were drawn after the split though.

Ah, there were so many things in such a short time, that now I struggle to remember...

how do you make em click to show boxes again?

Spoilers for one of the Expert dungeons

The Twinning was amazing, as I descended, I thought that the Allagan tech we were seeing was nothing like we've seen before. Then I spotted it, the orange logo with that little black cog. Garlond Ironworks... the work they did in the Eighth Umbral Era was insane, Cid would be proud if he knew what they achieved.

I had wondered how Emet Selch had no idea about the ability to cross shards with a physical form, surely he'd have known? The Allagan Empire was his Empire. Then the revelation that the Ironworks had used the expertise gained from both Alexander and Omega to achieve their goals... it all suddenly made complete sense

Just... well done to the whole writing team.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Source friendly meaning they had to pick names that don't sound alien? Or to hide their identities? Because some look like they're pronounced the same, but with different spelling.

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Where possible, they chose names that were close enough to their real names but fitting the racial naming conventions of the Source. None of them are actually pronounced the same; but most very close. Ironically, the one that looks like it would be pronounced most closely to his real name is pronounced quite differently. Ny-ul-burt of the First is Ny-behr on the Source.

Ok so.....

1) I am curious....

How will they progress the story about showing our WoL's Origins since 5.0 has setup the plot for that topic.

Currently we know that WoL is originally a Soul from the original world before the split into 13 shards.

When the split happened, WoL's original Soul was shattered into 13 shards as well and each Calamity would return a piece of the Soul back to the Source Soul being our current WoL.

Currently now 5 Shards of WoL's original Soul remains and there is a high chance the storyline may lead to the remaining 5 returning to WoL's Soul so that WoL will return to the original Soul and gain that PLOT important OVER 9000 power up.

in the end of 5.0 we have a glimps of WoL's original Soul as a Shade. This is obviously left that way to let the players imagine what WoL original looked liked. However, I am curious if they may allow us later to "character create" the Original WoL's Soul appearance in a later part of the storyline now because we also learn that even if a Shard WoL shares the same soul as our character, their physical appearance and gender can be completely different.

However, SE may take the lazy or less risky way out and just leave the image of WoL's Original Soul as a Shade or default the appearance to our current character appearance then slap in some lore about why we cannot actually see the WoL's original appearance.

I still will prefer the "character create" path for seeing what our WoL was like before the 13 shards for both lore and creative story reasons. Though I think chances are low for this because they may want to avoid giving players the option for that "Genderbender" plot where their WoL was original Male/Female before the Split but their current character is Female/Male in their current incarnation.

2) Now for 5.X story....

From what I can think up, I think the key to getting the Scion's soul back to the Source maybe Young G'raha Tia. We know at the end Old G'raha Tia has just awakened his younger self in the Source Crystal Tower for a reason and I suspect it is so Young G'raha Tia can begin learning the Soul summoning spell Old G'raha Tia knows so he can help bring back the Scions into the Source.

I do still hope for that tearful and happy reunion for Team NOAH because this will be a great letdown if they do not even go there.

Though it is sad the Old G'raha Tia cannot be there since he is now forever bound to the First in this new Timeline.

This also may mean the events of mastering CT's powers may advance a head of time now since Young G'raha Tia will awaken to learn how to control the CT's powers so he can bring the Scion's souls back to the Source.

There is something I want to talk about... the flashforward echo dream. I assume it is during when empire use Black Rose. Was that Cid's memory when i was holding the heavensward book?

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

There is something I want to talk about... the flashforward echo dream. I assume it is during when empire use Black Rose. Was that Cid's memory when i was holding the heavensward book?

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Gonna spoil this to be safe.

Its the Exarch holding the book, as he was trying to figure out what time period he needed to pull the WoL from.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I know plenty of people have given their thoughts on the MSQ so instead I'll focus on the tank role quest.

I'll admit I wasn't sure how much to expect out of the role quests, in paticular with Branden since he was one of the ones I was less interested in. But of course this came from us knowing little about all of the WoD, and the role quests did not dissapoint in bringing his character to a much better level.

I am not good at remembering names so I'm keeping this brief, but damn if Branden's story didn't bring a tear to my eye and the rp duty in it was well done. Granson as well was well done especially since it hadn't been to long since I completed the longer sidequest in Wright that connected to this quest. Being a Dark Knight alongside it I think made for the best decision not just because its Shadowbringers, but also because of the revenge theme it had going on. And being able to let go of that.

Pertaining to the eventually NieR Automata raid.

So one of the aether current quests in Amaraunt has one of the citizens say he is petitioning to create an automata force that could be their soldiers essentially, unless I'm remembering what I read wrongly. I DO know they talked about automatan though, and given what we learned of the ancient civilization I'm 99% sure our androids are going to be creations from that time before the Split. The question remains where the machines come from, whether created from fear like what the calamity was shown doing during the dungeon or alien life like both Omega is and NieR had them as.

And Eden

The devs said the WoL/D would be facing enemies made of their own imagination. Eden was probably also an pre-Split Ascian creation, and it will be the WoL having to unlock their own creation potential that will save the First. And may also give greater insight into what caused the calamity that struck so long ago.

And final edit for Hydaelyn.

Hydaelyn didn't cause the flood except in empowering those who would stand against Zodiark's tempered. At worst she only cares about keeping Zodiark in check even now, and otherwise is content to let the worlds do as they will. I do not think we will kill Hydaelyn, but I agree with Fenral: allying with the Ascians is an option that no long exists, but we no longer are also beholden to keeping Hydaelyn around if she truly does prove to be a threat since she is not truly the star itself...though the question also comes after as to whether the first Calamity has truly been stopped, or only halted by Zodiark's continued existance or by Hydaelyn taking up the role of halting it.

On the subject of the WoL old plot threads given new context...

I'm not entirely sure the 14th council member had much involvement with Hydaleyn's summoning at all. Perhaps they were sympathetic to those that did summon Hydaleyn, but weren't directly responsible for it. I find it far more likely that they were neutral.

1) If they explicitly supported the summoning of Zodiark, they would have been tempered, as Emet-Selch mentioned happened to all the Ascians. The divided WoL would be siding with the Ascians then.
2) If they explicitly supported the summoning of Hydaleyn, I find it hard to imagine that she would have divided the WoL's soul on purpose in the first place, because keeping their soul together and giving them the power to travel the shards would have gone a long way towards being able to defend them from the Ascians. Although that begs the question, who were her original summoners?
3) Although 2 assumes that Hydaelyn even divided the world on purpose, and it wasn't some freak accident of space-time. When Emet-Selch was explaining how the shards came to be, it appeared that he was operating under the assumption that Hydaelyn could do this at will. If so, what's to stop her from simply restoring the shards by dividing the Source once more?

There is also the question of exactly how Elidibus, Emet-Selch, and Lahabrea managed to escape the sundering intact, although we'll have to wait and see on this part.

Is the WoL tempered by Hydaelyn? I'm leaning towards no on this front as well. Zenos appears to suggest that 'tempering' as a concept is mostly a willpower thing. I also wonder what the exact nature of Middy's deal with Hydaelyn was, when he sealed the WoL's Blessing. There's a possibility that it served a different purpose beyond what we were quite frankly assuming. After all, why did our existence reach a point where Hydaelyn needed Middy to temporarily cut us off from her aether (assuming that was actually happening at all)?

We also need to keep an eye on the WoL from the 13th Shard. He is clearly about to come back in a big way. How much influence does Elidibus still have on him? His current base of operations is right next to where the Scions' bodies are...

Random thought about Eden.

If we're going to be facing beings born of imagination, I'm really hoping we'll get to fight a simulacrum of what kind of monstrosity we might've become had the light of wardens managed to turn us into a sin eater.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Random thought about Eden.

If we're going to be facing beings born of imagination, I'm really hoping we'll get to fight a simulacrum of what kind of monstrosity we might've become had the light of wardens managed to turn us into a sin eater.

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Gonna be honest

I know a lot of people called Vauthry being Innocence early on but I myself thought it would be born of all that corrupted Light we had been containing being released and forming the strongest Light Warden. So I'm all for us fighting a Sin Eater version of ourselves.

Might be the closest we get to fighting a "Primal" version of ourselves that some people have been wanting as well.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Random thought about Eden.

If we're going to be facing beings born of imagination, I'm really hoping we'll get to fight a simulacrum of what kind of monstrosity we might've become had the light of wardens managed to turn us into a sin eater.

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That gives me an idea:

Imagine a "what-if" simulacrum of the WoL as Titania.

Regarding the MSQ:

One of the things that's fascinating about the twist at the end is the implication that basically all native lifeforms as we know them were created by the original power of the Amaurotians at least in part as an effort to repopulate the world after their calamities. It supports that any sufficiently-advanced civilization will (initially?) seem indistinguishable from gods -- and, their ability to create a construct that rewrites the planetary laws of nature (Zodiark) is itself a sort of proof.

Although we definitely got the sense of this all along, it puts into perspective why the Ascians generally thought of all planetary life as basically insignificant ants to be toyed with. Thanks to Hydaelyn, the natural evolution of their creations was stunted by having their aether fractured. The fact that so many of their brethren sacrificed themselves for this "imperfect" result is definitely a big part of why they kept fighting so hard for the rejoining.

Aside that, it's important from a narrative point of view that this come after Heavensward, as the dragon conflict sets the stage for the perspective of the Ascians. Nidhogg's thousand year war of revenge was because time flows differently when you're all-but-immortal -- a thousand years is like a day. Now you see it from the point of view of the Ascians who have been at this for "thousands of thousands of years" and you can see why they think of all life as we know it as totally insignificant. As they allude to many times, the scale of their perspective is completely different -- how can you get attached to anything so transient after seeing eons of generations come and go, especially knowing that this "transience" is a byproduct of a forcibly-introduced imperfection that could be destroyed?

It also leads to the point that both Zodiark and Hydaelyn were solutions based on the limitations of Amaurotian knowledge because of the one domain they hadn't mastered: control of time. Why would an immortal being care to study time? With time travel, Emet-Selch alluded to a much more elegant solution to his problem: go back in time to eliminate the "hero" Amaurotian entirely -- who, as others have suggested, is probably the 14th member and the one responsible for summoning Hydaelyn to start with. Of course, had he not been tempered by Zodiark, there was an even better potential solution to his problem: going back in time to stop the original calamity from happening in the first place. But given that the Amaurotians, in all their "infinite wisdom," still don't seem to know what actually caused it in the first place, they probably wouldn't know when to go back to anyway. (I like the theory that it was their own hubris and over-manipulation of aether that caused things to fall apart until they were able to give the world a new form through Zodiark.)

As for what to do with Zodiark and Hydaelyn now, the real question is just what is the minimum required to preserve the status quo of the shards and prevent massive loss of life. Because Hydaelyn was summoned to counteract Zodiark, there's basically no way to remove the former unless you remove the latter, and perhaps the reverse is true as well. But if doing so would threaten the stability of the shards, then it may be that they need to preserve both somehow. Can they usher the two gods into eternal slumber instead?

Incidentally, one of the most fun points is that the Shadowbringers plot provides seemingly-significant evidence to suggest that the Dotharl belief in reincarnation -- that the spirits of the fallen re-inhabit the lives of the newly-born -- may actually literally be how things work. (And actually a lot of Xaela beliefs, though distorted by time and tradition, are not so very far off from the apparent truth.) The previously-immortal souls of the Amaurotians (and the other life created by them) were sundered along with the world itself, and they continually reincarnate into new life as part of the reincarnation cycle. We already basically knew in a broad sense that this is how the lifestream worked, but the idea that souls would remain distinct enough to be linked even through the millennia really supports that the Dotharl are onto something.

In any case, this expansion definitely gives an awful lot to think about, and many more major questions left to be explained.

About a sidequest unlocking currents in last area and crystals

At first I just wanted to make a remark about how regretful it was that we got a lightning crystal instead of an item to make a set of Amaurotian clothes. But then it came to me: if we see this one concept as a crystal, maybe all of the crystals are concepts? Or maybe during the split Amaurotians' creative magics condensed into crystals? After all, we can't craft anything without crystals...

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

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I have a theory that....

by the time we defeat Zodiark, we may have to defeat Hydaelyn because PLOT reason caused her to become aggressive to us. At that point events may follow that cause all remaining Shards to fuse with the Source but instead of causing a Calamity, it creates a new World that fuses all the lands in the remaining Shards and kept them intact thus the First locations will still remain and become part of this new world with the Source and the other Shard's lands as well.

However, to restore the world to its original self, without causing Calamities, may cause the events leading to meeting or discovering what caused the Calamaity that almost destroyed the world in the first place before the 13 shards.

This would also open up a large amount of new lands to future expansions as well with the Ascions, since they are defeated and Zodiark and Hydaelyn are no more, becoming replaced by a new Antagonist that worship the being that caused the Calamity in the original world. It would also cause a story reason why our character may struggle in the beginning of this new storyline because the Blessing of Light is no more with Hydaelyn gone and now we only have our own power of the Echo which should be in the complete form that the Ascions have which allows us to see into the Souls better. Don't forget we see and learn directly that the ancient beings of the original world basically had the power of the Echo with full control over it as they can see the Soul of WoL and Arbert with easy and what "color" it is.

I don't get

...
... how the Lifeduration of the people on the source isn't the least effected from having half of the shards already rejoined.
If a Rejoining should bring the people of the first closer to the Pre-Split race like Emet-Selch/Hades said, even though it could be a lie considering he wanted to just sacrifice all life on the first anyway.

Also how can Voidsent retain a personality and Sineaters cannot? Even among the Lightbringers it seems it is not the norm they have one considering Titania was transformed when she killed the former one and Vauthry got fused with one in the womb

For your first point :

Even us, probably the strongest (or at least one of) "human" being of the Source, with 7 shards rejoined is seen as having less magic power than a newborn baby by Amarautine. And the more or less eternal life of Amarautine is probably link to their immense magic power.

For your second point :

The Void, and by extension Void Sent exist since multiple millenea, Sin Eater one century at most, maybe it take time for being of pure energy to become sentient. And let not forget that we have not seen that much Void Sent with intelligence, maybe all those we have seen they were remarkably powerful being in the Thirteenth that became Void Sent, like Titania.

About Hydaelyn Zodiark and Varis

Its a bit ironic, when some of us pointed out that Varis was a bad person (including all the stuff he has already done in the MSQ and now including that he would have created the eight calamity) some came out and said that we should wait, that there will be nuance and that he will surely work together with us. Yet in the end thanks to his death he will stay just a bad guy that would have gone over worlds and the lives of millions of people to get to the "perfect" new world. Even though its quite certain that the Ascians would not have let him be there.

Now in this expansion we learn about more about Zodiark and Hydaelyn and that she might not have been completely truthful towards us. Yes she came afterwards and they did not exist together for some time (as far as we know) but other than that we also got the answer that Zodiark was needing huge amounts of sacrifices and who knows if he truly would have given them back the people. And there was someone that did not want this to happen, that grew tired of all this sacrifice (and I bet it was our old self) and together with others summoned Hydaelyn to give reign back to those that will be born again. And this is exactly the will Hydaelyn seems to follow. She is trying her best to help us survive, she has not done anything else badly (and maybe she does believe that this is how the story happens) and in times of peace she let people do their own thing.

Unlike Varis who has shown countless of crimes and has shown the will to use a horrible chemical weapon on the people and who was fine with worlds being destroyed as long as he reached his end goal, her only crime was telling us not the true full story. Any other action was done to protect us or the people living on this planet. Heck we even have the song "Answer" that is in some part from her point of view. And unlike Varis she also had not a single scene where she was alone and showing her true colors..

Of course that does not mean that she cant turn bad towards the ends. That she only played nice until the Ascians and Zodiark are dealt with. But until then maybe some of you should really try to stop making those of us that still believe in a good Hydaelyn out as someone that does not understand the story or that wont accept it..especially if you are someone that talks about nuance a lot and went down on us because of Varis..yet seemingly Hydaelyn is not allowed to have some nuance but still be good? No she has to be bad..even if right now she showed to be mostly good and was not even the one that started the flood. But of course the Ascians are telling their version of the story and suddenly everything is wrong that she has shown us and we 100% have to kill her now....

About the Ascians, their life and their plan

I do feel bad for the old people living on the planet and the tragedy that has befallen them. (Which kinda hints that they did this through themselves because of their actions) I also did feel a bit sad for dear Emet. (He was an interesting enemy) Finally an Ascian with more feelings, that outright told us their motives...sadly its even worse than I thought. Not only do they want to destroy the shards but also sacrifice everyone that is left on the source...just for the hope that Zodiark will even be able to bring back the people..No matter the past, this alone is enough to never truly side with them. I also wonder if its even possible to do that? I mean one world is destroyed thanks to the Ascians messing it up..can everything even be back to how it was? What will be left of the planet after so many calamities? (Also it shows that even they are not truly perfect and made mistakes)

I also wonder if we are the 14th member of the council and just like now, we wont just accept sacrifice of countless of people as a solution and fought against that. Heck we might just have been the one that summoned Hydaelyn as the last result against Zodiark, thus we are the first and only true WoL that in turn got split in 14 parts and reborn again and again over the times but never strong enough because of our split soul until now.

Its also a bit strange how Emet said that the world was perfect and completely peaceful at that time..yet he also says that they have all the emotions we have so I kinda doubt if everything was as perfect as he wants it to be..maybe we will find out more about this. Conflict at least can exist, otherwise one member would not have left the team..and Lahabrea is not exactly someone that I would count as peaceful..This all could have changed over the years but unlike him the other two remaining Ascians never seemed to have truly enjoyed the destruction they caused, they just saw it as the necessary thing that has to happen to bring back whats, in their view, the best world for everyone. Lahabrea seems to enjoy causing death on the other hand...so I wonder if they all were truly that perfect..

About the stuff I did not like

I did not like the explanation for the time difference..I know they probably did that so that the shard can rebuilt after the flood of light. But was it really necessary to make it so complicated? Why not simply say that time flew the same until the flood of Light nearly destroyed the shard thus messed up time..thus it only started 100 years ago. This could have been used as a perfect reason on why we should not worry about our world because time does not fly there so fast. (But it would have made it more difficult to explain the stuff that happens on the source while we are gone) I am not sure if we truly needed an explanation on why we are able to change between the realms..just say that we in canon are not leaving and the rest is just pure gameplay.

I am also not a fan on how stuff are named the same as on the source..and how similiar the dress code is..but I can atleast accept that as an restriction in the MMO because they would need to create too many new things.

The one part that I really disliked was the character Ranjit..I really hope that this was the last time we will get a character out of nowhere, that somehow is able to not only defeat us but the whole group of us..only to be nearly defeated later by Thancred in Solo content (who has such a low amount of skills..no wonder that they need us to do their things..) and then solo by us towards the end. I just dont like such kind of enemies and I am not sure if he was truly necessary in this expansion.

About the scions ,the WoD of the shard and our WoL

I really liked that for the first time they all finally helped. And that I truly got the feeling that they are caring for us. The twins are still the best of them and I pray that nothing will ever happen to them. I did not like all the fake death scenes..but at the same time I am also happy that we start with the expansion with all of them still alive..yet at the same time the story felt great, you could feel the tragedy and the hardship that the shard had gone through and I finally felt like we are truly part of this again. Not forced into a war that we have no real stakes in it. No this time its truly only us that can do something and we are also nearly paying it with our own life and it just made me hooked. I also liked Ryne quite a bit. Not long into the story and I already enjoyed her more than I ever did the original. The character development and the relationship between the scions was also great, even if I would still only count the twins as true friends for my character but I am still fine with the rest of them.

My heart also goes out for Ardbert and his group of friends. After HW I always felt that it was not enough and thankfully they are part of this story. I really came to like Ardbert and I hope that this was not the last time we have seen him...maybe we find out that his soul still in some way exists in us and is not completely absorbed. Would have been funny to also have a scene in the game where the WoL talks to him and the scions come in and think we are going a bit crazy.

And poor WoL, having to suffer such a huge burden again and on top of that not being told until its kinda too late..why do so many feel like not telling us stuff that is about ourself? At least we got out of this and the scions tried their best to help. Great to see us suffer a bit for that and to imagine that all we saw was white towards the end is really shocking. But of course because its our own playable character it still took some suspense out of it because we know that we cant die. But of course I still worried about my two favorite characters. Still hope that the story goes more in that direction where there is tragedy but not mass death of our known NPC friends..

so quick question was the events of the and leading up to the ending suggesting our character is a amaurotian?

So about the Lore between Gunbreaker's Gunblade and Garlean's Gunblade...

It seems lore wise they are considered two different weapons with gunbreaker's gunblade being the ORIGINAL Gunblades while Garlean's Gunblades are more of copies of the original Gunblades designs with separate combat use designs.

Gunbreaker Gunblades function as Squall's Gunblade, designed to use Magic Ammo for causing the Explosions on melee hit and focus purely to performing Melee Attacks. These Gunblades do not have a Gun Barrel as the Magic Ammo focus on empowering the Blade on the Gunblade.

Garlean Gunblades function as Lightning's Gunblade, designed to use the Magic Ammo for releasing Magical attacks from the Gun Barrel as Range Attacks with the Blade for Melee Attacks. This Gunblade does have a Gun Barrel and utilize it for their Melee Attacks as we have seen in the past battles with Garleans that fully utilize the Gun Barrel to release Magic abilities.

This can lead to some very interesting creativity if SE decides to expand more on this Lore in both Gameplay, potential new Job, and differences in combat styles.

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Originally Posted by Kusanagi7

so quick question was the events of the and leading up to the ending suggesting our character is a amaurotian?

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Answers in spoilers

Yes it seems to be hinted that we were once part of the immortal race and maybe even one of the 14 important ones. (Seeing how our Aura is special and we were a friend of Emet) Heck depending on how this goes we might even be one of those that created Hydealyn.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Answers in spoilers

Yes it seems to be hinted that we were once part of the immortal race and maybe even one of the 14 important ones. (Seeing how our Aura is special and we were a friend of Emet) Heck depending on how this goes we might even be one of those that created Hydealyn.

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Well..........

A part of me suspect we may not be a member of the people who created Hydealyn but still was someone against the creation of Zodiark and probably also against Hydealyn summon as well due to also costing countless souls to create her.

If there is one thing we learn about the Original Soul of WoL is that he or she was still driven to do Heroic deeds no matter his or her reason behind the action which lead Emet to suddenly see a image of WoL's original self since at that moment WoL was very close to the Original Soul's personality.

I suspect WoL's original self wanted to prevent the Calamity without the need to sacrifice people to create Zodiark and Hydealyn but failed to do so because he or she could not find the source of the Calamity.

Still this opens up a higher Antagonist to the storyline once the Ascions and Zodiark are finally defeated, which is soon now since we have broken them down to only one leader now.

The only question is now what will happen to the world once the Ascions and Zodiark, and probably Hydealyn as well since her nature to be the counter to Zodiark may cost her life to defeat Zodiark, are all defeated and who is or are the beings that caused the Calamity in the Original World along with what is their goal for planning to destroy all life on the Planet.

Then there is the question about what may become of the remaining shards and the Source but my theory is that near the end we may find a way or events of Zodiakr and Hydealyn's defeat may cause all shards to fuse with the Source and create a new World without causing a Calamity.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Well..........

A part of me suspect we may not be a member of the people who created Hydealyn but still was someone against the creation of Zodiark and probably also against Hydealyn summon as well due to also costing countless souls to create her.

If there is one thing we learn about the Original Soul of WoL is that he or she was still driven to do Heroic deeds no matter his or her reason behind the action which lead Emet to suddenly see a image of WoL's original self since at that moment WoL was very close to the Original Soul's personality.

I suspect WoL's original self wanted to prevent the Calamity without the need to sacrifice people to create Zodiark and Hydealyn but failed to do so because he or she could not find the source of the Calamity.

Still this opens up a higher Antagonist to the storyline once the Ascions and Zodiark are finally defeated, which is soon now since we have broken them down to only one leader now.

The only question is now what will happen to the world once the Ascions and Zodiark, and probably Hydealyn as well since her nature to be the counter to Zodiark may cost her life to defeat Zodiark, are all defeated and who is or are the beings that caused the Calamity in the Original World along with what is their goal for planning to destroy all life on the Planet.

Then there is the question about what may become of the remaining shards and the Source but my theory is that near the end we may find a way or events of Zodiakr and Hydealyn's defeat may cause all shards to fuse with the Source and create a new World without causing a Calamity.

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About Hydaelyn, Zodiark and us:

Of course it can be completely possible that we had nothing to do with Hydaelyn. Or it could be that she did not need that huge amount of sacrifice and the WoL and some of her friends sacrificed themselves for her so that others can live on. This could also greatly explain why we are the WoL. But all of this is just speculation.

I am also not sure if the catastrophe was not created by the Ascians themselves. Ysthola did say that the magic or aether needed to create all of it must have been huge. Maybe they misused it too much and the planet was dying thanks to that, and all the stuff happens. While we ran through the destroyed city Emet does say that fear creates more of them so maybe the fear of going to be killed created more and more of those creatures making it even worse. So it could be that there is no higher new enemy. (And in a way the Ascians would truly not be much different then us, which Alphinaud also pointed out)

Was it stated in the story that Hydaelyn as the enemy to Zodiark is connected to him in such a way? I honestly cant remember such a scene so I am not sure why she would need to die if we kill Zodiark.

Also how would those shards be fused without massive loss of life? And do people even want it to be fused. They might be similiar but those shards still had their own history/culture/belief. Also that huge amount of people from a couple of shards suddenly being all on the source? Where should they live?

Of course all is possible but I still doubt that this game will end with the world being whole again. I do believe that the message they try to give to us is, that its worth living a not perfect life and that the worlds as they are right now are fine. As long as there is nothing cosmic that will destroy the reality or the worlds if they are not combined I see not reason to do that.

Post-credits scene

Such an amazing last few hours and then that Garlemald bit had to go and ruin my good mood. God I do not want Zenos to ruin a second expansion for me like he did SB. He better not be the final boss at the end of the patches.

Very curious about Elidibus's plans though. Maybe bring in WoLs from yet another shard?

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Post-credits scene

Such an amazing last few hours and then that Garlemald bit had to go and ruin my good mood. God I do not want Zenos to ruin a second expansion for me like he did SB. He better not be the final boss at the end of the patches.

Very curious about Elidibus's plans though. Maybe bring in WoLs from yet another shard?

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Not sure why it's complaining about char length.

My guess is that in the events of 5.1 and onwards Elidibus will be sending WoLs from the other shards after us, in an attempt to kill, or absorb(?) us, though I think it's going to end up the other way around and then we'll combine with the other fragments of our soul, and we'll eventually deal with the last Ascian, then finish it off with 1 final bout between us and Zenos, though going by his words, we are to kill Zodiark, and he is to kill Hydaelyn, something along those lines. Short of it expect Zenos to be around for a very long while, unfortunately.

This really seems like we are heading into our final addon.
I hope thats not the case...

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Originally Posted by Alleo

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I am not saying.....

that the Ascions created the Calamity but something else that was beyond their knowledge. As Y'shtola said, the people of the original world had a large amount of aether to the point no matter how much they use they will never cause any Calamity for using it.

However, the Ascions created the plan to summon Zodiark due to not being able to find the source of this Calamity and without knowing the source they could not prevent it without a higher power.

The knowledge of what create this Calamity still eludes both the Ascions and ourselves but chances are it is a being of higher power with a set of followers.

As for the Complete world, it will most likely be made a much large sized planet if it happens since the spliting of the Source into 13 shards is like the splitting of the Soul where the Soul is basically cut into smaller pieces to create the 13 fragmented Souls.

Calamities are made to destroy the Shards into Aether so they can return to the Source but if the Shards are to fuse with the Source without a Calamity it may result in the Lands of those Shards becoming a part of the Source thus the Complete world becomes much bigger than the world we know now and potentially open up new Expansion areas for Post-Zodiark/Ascion storyline