Wedging healers into a pure healing role may have some advantages.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

What you want is not a healer. It's some hybrid. I've wanted a healer since 2.0 and I'm finally getting one. Most of the posts on this subforum are just pointless snark from people who want dps classes with healing spells and NO amount of changes from SE are ever going to make you happy in the new system. Just go play a dps and leave pure healers the hell alone.

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If you bothered to read that "pointless snark," you would quickly discover very few healers advocate for DPS above all else. Even those at a higher echelon. What we want is engagement. Standing around doing precisely nothing until damage happens is neither engaging nor interesting. You literally aren't playing the game at that point. Incidentally, despite your rant, nothing seems to be changing on this front. You aren't getting a "pure healer" in Shadowbringers. You're getting the same healers except with diluted DPS abilities. Barring a massive change in outgoing damage, you will still be expected to deal damage and be told you're a bad healer should you refuse. Why? Because people dislike one role having a built in excuse to ignore half their kit.

And since you're so quick to tell other players they should quit playing their preferred role because you dislike their opinions. I'll do the same and advise you find a different MMO entirely. FFXIV is unlikely to ever "fix" healers the way you prefer.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Why don't SE take their gloriously unique job system and actually encourage players to make use of it? What's wrong with expecting me to be an AST for one fight, and then WHM to perform best for the next?

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I'll say it right here, right now, as plainly as possible. This is the absolute worst idea you could come up with. This is forcing people to level a second Job and forcing party compositions to be extremely static. Some people do play one Job or one Job for that role because they aren't interested in the others. Telling them that in order to play, they have to level and learn all the healers or they can't progress is an absolutely awful idea.

Right now, Bard, Dragoon, and Ninja are forced into raids, and you know what? People hate it. People are mad that Trick Attack didn't leave or change. Why? Because the way the game worked forced people to take these Jobs and forced people to play these Jobs. Advocating for SE to actually design content around this idea is the worst possible thing.

Just wanted to comment on one thing said a little back, about devs being allergic to fun:

Take the encounter as the ENTIRE thing. I think the ENTIRE encounter is enjoyable and fun to figure out. I can still go into a God Kefka party and have fun. And yes, healers were telling me how punishing it was of an encounter. One healer that I know STILL considers it to be a fun challenge when it was current... that healer has over 20 UwU clears and nearly 15 Ucob clears. I trust their judgement on all things healer related.

So while healing might be clunky, not fun, not intuitive, not great, let's not bash the encounters as not being fun. A lot of raiders find them to be fun and challenging. Just sayin.

Proceed :D

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I like how everyone for the healer changes are either extremely bad healers or don't play healers at all, and the ones against it actually play healers and are good at their job.

Really puts things into perspective. It's fine if you either don't care about healer changes or are not effected about healer changes because you never learned what optimizing on a job is, but at least let the healers who knows what they're talking about get their feedback and opinions out to SE without a "shut up everything is fine" remark every other post.

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I've cleared UcoB & UwU and i don't have a problem with the healer changes o:
AST had all the time only 2 dmg spells & 1 for AoE, so it's not a big deal for me, that the other 2 get them as well :shrug: it's just easier to balance tbh
sure, SCH will be more "boring" but how many players can play this job rly good?
WHM was always the easiest healer, and will still be it -> no big change here

tbh many players understood the "pure healing role" wrong from the LLs, and nearly all of them are bad players like you said^^

but i know many good healers, who don't rly care about the changes, 'cause they are just not that big

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Originally Posted by Campi

but i know many good healers, who don't rly care about the changes, 'cause they are just not that big

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I think the AST changes are big.
They basically change the whole card system to a balance only party and take away all skills that let you extend buffs.
For me personally these two things were the reason I mained AST. I liked to have different kind of buffs and I loved playing around with the effects of Celestial Opposition and Time Dilation.
Meaning at least for me these changes are so grave that I won't main this job anymore. And I'm sure there are other people who share my opinion.

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Originally Posted by supaiku

I think the AST changes are big.
They basically change the whole card system to a balance only party and take away all skills that let you extend buffs.
For me personally these two things were the reason I mained AST. I liked to have different kind of buffs and I loved playing around with the effects of Celestial Opposition and Time Dilation.
Meaning at least for me these changes are so grave that I won't main this job anymore. And I'm sure there are other people who share my opinion.

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Yeah sure, there are many other ppl who share your opinion.

For me, the AST changes make the cards less annoying and less rng (which i like)
Celestial Opposition and Time Dilation were rly nice for extending the HoTs, but AST will get other Tools for it.
The extended collective was a bit OP tbh ^^


I don't rly care about the changes, i'll just take them as they are. And many others do the same^^

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Originally Posted by Campi

I've cleared UcoB & UwU and i don't have a problem with the healer changes o:
AST had all the time only 2 dmg spells & 1 for AoE, so it's not a big deal for me, that the other 2 get them as well :shrug: it's just easier to balance tbh
sure, SCH will be more "boring" but how many players can play this job rly good?
WHM was always the easiest healer, and will still be it -> no big change here

tbh many players understood the "pure healing role" wrong from the LLs, and nearly all of them are bad players like you said^^

but i know many good healers, who don't rly care about the changes, 'cause they are just not that big

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Fully agree. It's just that angry people are likely to be more noisy online that people that either agree, don't care or don't feel anything about it before actually experiencing it.

I healed on AST and WHM is SAvage and extreme trials, I know how healing works in the game and I don't have much of an opinion on the healer DPS changes before I play the content. And as you say, AST has no change on that regard, and WHM just loses one DoT. It's a bit more understandable for SCH, but as you say I doubt that half of the people complaining here about SCH change actually manage to master the job as it currently is.

I'm pretty much let down by WHM being as bland as before, and AST card changes are a bit disappointing but I'm still interested to see how it works in a raid context. I like to think that the upcoming release and patches are a good occasion to bring this up if it actually needs fixing.
But we need to clear the forums before that, otherwise constructive feedback will get flooded in the shitposting.

Constructive feedback is already getting flooded with "wait til you play it", "wait til savage is out", "i dont have an opinion" and "we need to clear the forums", can we clear this "shitposting" aswell?

we even have people saying ‘wait for 6.0’. We shouldn’t have to endure 2 more years of brain numbing healing before they remix everything (not even guaranteeing it to be better)

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

Constructive feedback is already getting flooded with "wait til you play it", "wait til savage is out", "i dont have an opinion" and "we need to clear the forums", can we clear this "shitposting" aswell?

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Let's ignore everything said in these posts. Let's just take the opinions we disagree with, ironically call them constructive, then proceed to overly simplify them into short caricature quotes. Then call them "shitposting", which will surely bring upvotes from the sheep who think this is a legitimate way to respond.

What could go wrong? Surely no one will figure out the completely disingenuous lack of effort or consideration to the original posts.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Surely no one will figure out the completely disingenuous lack of effort or consideration to the original posts.

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You mean the original post that said

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Originally Posted by Mansion

But we need to clear the forums before that, otherwise constructive feedback will get flooded in the shitposting.

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I´m not too sad about the healer changes. Sch dps spells got removed to match the other 2 healers.

I´m more concerned, that the dps players get so much "support abilities" instead of the healers. I can count on 1 Hand, the times (outside of savage) i see dps players use things like palisade, Apocastasis, addle or even manashift ... Why not use it if its ogcd, and free and a help for the grp.

I can understand, that Tanks get some shield-abilities, because there job is basically being the shield for the party.

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

You mean the original post that said

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I mean the original post that said:

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Fully agree. It's just that angry people are likely to be more noisy online that people that either agree, don't care or don't feel anything about it before actually experiencing it.

I healed on AST and WHM is SAvage and extreme trials, I know how healing works in the game and I don't have much of an opinion on the healer DPS changes before I play the content. And as you say, AST has no change on that regard, and WHM just loses one DoT. It's a bit more understandable for SCH, but as you say I doubt that half of the people complaining here about SCH change actually manage to master the job as it currently is.

I'm pretty much let down by WHM being as bland as before, and AST card changes are a bit disappointing but I'm still interested to see how it works in a raid context. I like to think that the upcoming release and patches are a good occasion to bring this up if it actually needs fixing.
But we need to clear the forums before that, otherwise constructive feedback will get flooded in the shitposting.

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Before you stripped it to:

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Originally Posted by Mansion

But we need to clear the forums before that, otherwise constructive feedback will get flooded in the shitposting.

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So which is it? Do you not have the capacity to understand this post and the context in which it was made? Or are you simply disingenuously cutting bits and pieces of it to make it more convenient for you?

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

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SICKNESS MUST BE PURGED

I awkwardly meant that the ongoing dynamic on the healer forum is bringing nothing to no one. Constructive feedback is drowned in the flow of posts and topics that all roughly go around the same things, over and over. So once the expansion is out, we need to make sure that feedback is easy to find, relevant and easy to understand.

From what I understand now, the devs position is "wait until you try it", as per the latest Yoshi-P interview where the question about WHM's lack of raid buff was asked to him. So I guess they'll only consider feedback that comes after the launch. So it needs to be clearly exposed, like 3 consolidated 5.0 feedback on each healer, with the top post quoting all relevant feedback from other players, for instance?

I'm not saying nothing intelligent has been said up until today concerning the 5.0 healer changes, we have all read quite interesting posts from people with relevant experience on the topic. I'm saying that it has been horribly painful to read it because it is scattered here and there, and it's floating around hundreds of empty posts. :)

There's a button http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...post-right.png which you can click and read entire post, no reason to quote it completely, especially if you only replying to the part of it, since doing it really floods up the forum with duplicate information. Why am i explaining obvious stuff? I do not know. But forums are even more flooded now!

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Originally Posted by Mansion

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Ah, well consolidation feedback for SE is fine, but people are gonna discuss (complain) changes now, there isn't much else to do anyway

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Originally Posted by supaiku

I think the AST changes are big.
They basically change the whole card system to a balance only party and take away all skills that let you extend buffs.
For me personally these two things were the reason I mained AST. I liked to have different kind of buffs and I loved playing around with the effects of Celestial Opposition and Time Dilation.
Meaning at least for me these changes are so grave that I won't main this job anymore. And I'm sure there are other people who share my opinion.

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In general what I feel caused the AST changes is that prior to the change and ASTs speaking up about how they like to use Arrow on this and Ewer here, most talked about just Balance + AOE fishing no matter what and that the other cards just didn't matter. They were discarded until Minor Arcana was unlocked. It was basically self inflicted tbh.