5.0 leaks (that I don't believe)

The text stating "Only Vit" is likely because a previous iteration had Strength and Vit contribute.

You could literally just do 80% of Vitality and it'd work out to basically be the same as right now, except Tanks wouldn't !@#%@ about their fending accessories.

On VIT, I believe SE just wants to be able to manipulate the damage and HP formulas completely independent of each other, and be able to adjust how much "HP" a piece of gear gives each patch without unintentionally modifying how much "damage" it confers as well.

Just a hunch, though.

I smell a troll. Not the OP, but wherever the source material was copied from

Impressive troll thread. OP hasn't replied once, and the pictured post doesn't even insist it's a "leak", it's literally just someone's wishlist, kinda like 90% of this forums class discussion.
Yet it's enough to cause 9 pages of fighting.

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Originally Posted by Pallero

Impressive troll thread. OP hasn't replied once, and the pictured post doesn't even insist it's a "leak", it's literally just someone's wishlist, kinda like 90% of this forums class discussion.
Yet it's enough to cause 9 pages of fighting.

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Hmmm, because I have nothing to say else, lol.
I posted it because the forum was invaded by some persistent threads and because it's interesting to see how people can react to this kind of (false) leaks.
It give some good reading and subjects to debate.

Yea, considering the other leaks turned out to be pretty spot on.. I'll refrain from calling BS.

No good solution to the tank stance debacle? Removed from game.
Tanks melding Str, DPS/Healers melding Vit? Don't worry they no longer exist.
SCH has a crapload of button bloat already? Aetherflow mechs removed from SCH.
Unfairly wasting hundreds of thousands of gil on overmelds? Overmelding removed from game
Healers required to DPS? It's just one button you can do that easily now
DRG required for optimal physical ranged DPS? Piercing debuff removed from game
That one time you had 10 deaths and still managed to kill Middy Savage before enrage? Ability to recover from potential wipes removed from game
It's interesting they mention PLD MP skills but not DRK? Either way, it's about what we figured would happen with consolidation to one MP/TP resource (AP?)
And, I thought a previous leak said something different about monk stances, but maybe this was the previous leak I saw since it's nearly a month old and I just don't recall correctly.

They are all pretty plausible IMO. Certainly they're all topics that have been discussed in-depth here on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Just like I mentioned right at the beginning of the thread, before people decided to drag out this discussion continuously, because it was apparently an affront to them that the idea that "ARC > SCH" makes more sense than "ARC > SMN". To the point where people keep asking if I had a bias against SMN because despite literally all the things I've pointed out that favour "ARC > SCH" and thus my opinion, they still can't comprehend that someone might have a different opinion to their own.

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I missed the boat on this argument, but it makes a bit more sense to me to have ACN>SMN, and then make SCH as a lv30 healer job that unlocks exactly like lv30 AST/DRK/MCH with it's own kit.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I missed the boat on this argument, but it makes a bit more sense to me to have ACN>SMN, and then make SCH as a lv30 healer job that unlocks exactly like lv30 AST/DRK/MCH with it's own kit.

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I think the other way around. Arcanist base kit is a healing kit. It's low impact DPS, a basic heal, a raise. It makes more sense transitioning into Scholar.

Summoner is steadily leaving more and more of its Arcanist kit behind by delving into layered trance systems. It makes much more sense to have Summoner be the standalone.

Aetherflow as a mechanic also makes more sense as a tactical response kit via Scholar than it does as "Fester unless two targets" Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I think the other way around. Arcanist base kit is a healing kit. It's low impact DPS, a basic heal, a raise. It makes more sense transitioning into Scholar.

Summoner is steadily leaving more and more of its Arcanist kit behind by delving into layered trance systems. It makes much more sense to have Summoner be the standalone.

Aetherflow as a mechanic also makes more sense as a tactical response kit via Scholar than it does as "Fester unless two targets" Summoner.

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Come again? Arcanist has 5 dps abilities compared to 1 heal and 1 support ability prior to lv30. That is, quite objectively, NOT a healing kit. These 5 base DPS abilities eventually translate into 50% of SMN's DPS at lv70. You could say it's "leaving the base kit behind" but really it's transforming into a more powerful kit just the same as BLM evolves to fire/blizzard/thunder 1/2/3/4.

Aetherflow begins as an ACN ability, so if they are in fact separating SCH from ACN then it might follow they would lose Aetherflow. Additionally, SCH would benefit the most by streamlining their dps into less buttons, (IE, removing bio, miasma, ruin/broil), and forming a new base kit for dps abilities.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Come again? Arcanist has 5 dps abilities compared to 1 heal and 1 support ability prior to lv30.

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By this logic neither is Conjuror.

It has two heals and a raise. That's it.

It gets a DoT, a strike spammer that evolves more often than an Arcanists, and prior to the potency being removed, Fluid Aura was an OGCD attack.

Oh, and as a bonus, any sort of retooling to Arcanist to make it a healer would see Carbuncle likely getting the aoe heal, so lookie there, Arcanist would have two heals too.

To be honest, I already have a personal policy that a person has 3 deaths before I stop rezzing them in a fight because it's a waste of my MP at that point, so I'm fine with them being out of the fight if it's just them and especially if they remove rez weakness. xD

I have no idea on the validity of leaks, nor do I usually pay attention to them. I happen to like that particular idea, but it does paint a target on the people who do die that much in the sense that the party could kick them then for incompetence. Basically get good or be shamed. That goes against SE's constant need to make everything new person friendly though and is a pipe dream because of that, just like a personal DPS meter is sadly such a pipe dream in this game. :/

Three things screamed to me that this is fake:
1. Separating arcanist's jobs into 2 separate classes.
- This is a ton of work for ZERO pay off. ARR is done. It was hard to get 2 jobs to mesh with a single class but that is in the past.
- This would be creating a world of problems (making a new 1-30 class, major changes to 2 jobs) for no good reason
2. removing drg piercing debuff
- This is a wish list of bards only (technically mch? but no where near the top of their list lol). Its basically nerfing drg and buffing bards for no reason.
- DRG gain a little bit of damage to compensate, but a tiny gain would still make them the lowest damage dps. Plus they lose some group desirability. They lose a serious debuff that bards/mechs need
- This is the ONLY change that takes apart some of the class meta - specifically helping a single very popular class which needs no help in the meta.
3. The rez limit. This screamed elitism. No game would do this - it simply punishes players new to the content. We've all seen alliance/24man raids where more than 10 people die, yet victory is still achieved.
- creates problems and solves nothing

I think the reason for the sch / sum split is because SE wanted to rework the healers and they probably couldn't do that effectively without the changes to sch effecting sum as well.

Removing the piercing debuf from dragoons it probably not the first debuf that is going away, I have a feeling that the slashing and blunt ones will go too. I wonder if bard / mch will get buffs as well as the dragoon?

The rez limit and no rez sickness sound like a good idea, it makes things more punishing for continuing to make mistakes.

Yay tank stance is going away too, it was a useless ability that only punishes tanks for using it, but the loss of strength on tank gear I'm not sure about

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Originally Posted by Hexi

I think the reason for the sch / sum split is because SE wanted to rework the healers and they probably couldn't do that effectively without the changes to sch effecting sum as well.

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Nowadays, they can trait things away if there is an issue; so I doubt this is an issue anymore.

Honestly these leaks tells us nothing and can't be verified because there is such little context. Stuff like removing tank stance seems possible but there will need to be a whole host of changes surrounding that which are not listed here. There is a legitimate way to remove tank stance but none of that is leaked so who the hell knows? Same with the healer dps thing. If everything else about healing stayed the same except all dps are ogcds then these leaks are fake, but we have no idea how the healing kits will change with the dps change so who's to know? Ultimately all of these supposed changes seem possible under certain circumstances. We'll know soon, but personally I doubt they will change stuff up this much. Such changes will require major reworks of jobs, and SE hasn't indicated that jobs will see such revolutionary changes.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

By this logic neither is Conjuror.

It has two heals and a raise. That's it.

It gets a DoT, a strike spammer that evolves more often than an Arcanists, and prior to the potency being removed, Fluid Aura was an OGCD attack.

Oh, and as a bonus, any sort of retooling to Arcanist to make it a healer would see Carbuncle likely getting the aoe heal, so lookie there, Arcanist would have two heals too.

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Sorry, I had to wait a couple days to regain forums access since I don't log in much now >.<

"By this logic neither is conjurer" might be a reasonable line of argument if Conjurer had a red DPS icon... But they don't. ACN is a DPS base class. They've hinted at wanting to re-work the job/class system anyways, and we know that SCH was pretty much tacked on towards the end of ARR development.. Everything seems to point to ACN>SMN.

Furthermore, it's been discussed in some depth that SMN utility encroaches on RDM utility. SMN deals more damage and is virtually equal in party support. If they take away the raise from SMN (in order to further compartmentalize SMN/SCH split) it would cement RDM as the support magic DPS and allow SMN/BLM to compete on a more level playing field for that heavy damage caster spot. It's an abstract and speculative thought but seems plausible enough IMO.

It makes very little sense to rework ACN into a base healer class, especially when they have moved away from using base classes at all. It's double the work considering they'd then have to re-work SMN to fit as well. In fact, it makes way more sense to just get rid of ACN class altogether and have SMN/SCH as independent jobs, since that would be the option that best aligns with their current design philosophy of jobs > classes.

And just to be clear, I'm not suggesting SMN/SCH wasn't a neat concept (DPS and Healer branching off same class, semi-freedom to switch to either depending on mood/needs, etc). But if they want to move away from that I don't think it really hurts anything (outside of people's muscle memory), and it probably will make balancing easier for them in the long run.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

It makes very little sense to rework ACN into a base healer class, especially when they have moved away from using base classes at all. It's double the work considering they'd then have to re-work SMN to fit as well. In fact, it makes way more sense to just get rid of ACN class altogether and have SMN/SCH as independent jobs, since that would be the option that best aligns with their current design philosophy of jobs > classes.

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ACN -> Scholar is the more natural progression based on Arcanist and Scholar's stories.

Summoner separating from Scholar properly already implies one of the two is going to have to be reworked, and of the two, Summoner is the more contentious for its representation in game.

Further, Arcanist already gets rebranded as a base healing class anytime a Scholar goes into under-30 level synced content, and yet it functions just fine. The only addition Arcanist would need is for Carbuncle to have a healing spell on it. Not really a whole lot of reworking necessary.

Ya, its a logical fallacy to say "leaks in the past have been correct, so we should consider these". Like 1 or 2 "leaks" EVERY have been genuine. Its ignoring the thousands of BS ones people make up.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Summoner separating from Scholar properly already implies one of the two is going to have to be reworked, and of the two, Summoner is the more contentious for its representation in game..

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If they separate SCH from ACN the only thing that really needs a re-work are their base DPS abilities inherited from ACN, and the 3 ACN abilities they share with SMN between 30-50 (ruin 2, rouse, shadow flare). This is a stated concentration of design change (streamlining healer DPS). The bulk of SCH's actual healing kit (and higher level DPS kit) comes from SCH job abilities, not ACN, so it's mostly unaffected. Same could be said for SMN, except the base DPS kit it inherits from ACN evolves to become a more specialized SMN kit. How are you going to take away all the dots from SMN and say it's even still a SMN (at least, FFXIV's "contentious" version of SMN)? That's why I said it's double the work, instead of just streamlining SCH as an independent job, now they still have to streamline SCH and entirely rework SMN because it no longer has it's base dot-damage kit.

If someone wants them to re-work SMN then just say so. You don't have to come up with some abstraction about how SCH fits better with ACN and therefore SMN needs to be rebuilt.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Further, Arcanist already gets rebranded as a base healing class anytime a Scholar goes into under-30 level synced content, and yet it functions just fine. The only addition Arcanist would need is for Carbuncle to have a healing spell on it. Not really a whole lot of reworking necessary.

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Uhmm.. A level 18 SCH in Sastasha remains a level 18 SCH, it doesn't change to a green ACN icon. A WHM doesn't revert back to CNJ just because it's under lv30, it retains it's WHM "brand".

It's clear that you're not convinced by my reasoning, nor am I convinced by yours. So we may just have to agree to disagree for now, and see what they end up announcing next week :P

Saw a different set of "leaks" yesterday. Holy crap. Some people are really good at making them sound real (most don't). I would NOT be disappointed if this last round of leaks was real other than the fact that someone violated the NDA

So finally today we will get an idea of the real changes :D

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

Saw a different set of "leaks" yesterday. Holy crap. Some people are really good at making them sound real (most don't). I would NOT be disappointed if this last round of leaks was real other than the fact that someone violated the NDA

So finally today we will get an idea of the real changes :D

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For real some seem really consistent with a couple others that id seen recently. Still too early, but I think some of the believable overlaps may actually be true

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

Saw a different set of "leaks" yesterday. Holy crap. Some people are really good at making them sound real (most don't). I would NOT be disappointed if this last round of leaks was real other than the fact that someone violated the NDA

So finally today we will get an idea of the real changes :D

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Yea I read that one. Some of the tidbits didn't seem like anyone would just make up. But fake leakers can be a crafty bunch.

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Originally Posted by griffinborn

Yea I read that one. Some of the tidbits didn't seem like anyone would just make up. But fake leakers can be a crafty bunch.

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Which is why I'm skeptical.

But in a way if the real reveal is something different that isn't as good, I will feel a bit let down :o

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

For real some seem really consistent with a couple others that id seen recently. Still too early, but I think some of the believable overlaps may actually be true

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c o o o o n f i i i i i i i i i i i i i i r m e d


it's all truuuuuuuuuuuue

(at least a lot of it so far)

Some of it is true. dps stance is going away

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Originally Posted by Allistar

Some of it is true. dps stance is going away

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From their discussion:

• WHM lilies accrue over time, no need to cast spells for them
• Can get a black lily at high levels for special offensive action
• Video shows a wing animation

But nothing too specific.