Baldesion Arsenal Feedback

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Originally Posted by Myon88

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Don't get me wrong Myon, it was really fun but as much as I'd like seeing more of it, more than once of this per expantion would be too much for players. So I'd be completly fine if we don't get anything like it again in the future.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

I do not play games to devote time to linkshell politics and whether I'm going to stay in someone's good graces and keep my spot. When content leans more on logistics and socialization than actual difficulty to function, you need only look at things like hunt communities to see the kind of petty drama it creates. It also exacerbates communication issues on datacenters where multiple languages are spoken.

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This mostly... It would be so sweet to just hop into it and try. I was in a Treasure map LS a while ago, the lead was... complicated and all the time he asked at like 14:00 for maps, to do them at like 20:00, while gettin salty if no one is up to it... in the end he disbanded it after new content was out and ppl were bussy with Orbonne etc >_>

There's certainly interest among players to attempt BA, but there are a lot of hurdles in the way.

From my experience, parts of the EU playerbase are trying to organise groups of people that are prepared in terms of gear and knowledge that are willing and interested in clearing the arsenal. But they can't play together because the various groups can't:

1. Join the same Eureka instance, since we can't pick instance to join (e.g. GW2 PvP server selection)
2. Effectively coordinate in-game since alliances are disallowed in Eureka
3. Join the BA as a group, as portals are personal

I get that random players would like to be able to go into Eureka and give BA a try, but why isn't there a way for pre-made groups to challenge BA that doesn't put them in conflict with random/solo players?

Could not really give a try to the content so far.
Most of the time, not enough players enter the instance and it is impossible to clear the first two bosses. The other few times, the instance is invaded by a 56 players premade team and you are verbally threaten if you dare claim your right to enter a portal...

I don't know how the content will evolve once the majority of players hit 60 and get their relic, but right now BA is either almost empty or totally full.

If Yoshida meant this content to be done with random players in Eureka, he should remove the no-rez rule. I believe it would bring more players to BA.
(Yoshida still can lock the mount behind a no-death condition to keep some challenge)

Also the fact that players have to speed run against each other to get a portal is source of evil. Would be better if it was random.

It's bizarre that they implemented instance-choosing when zones were split at expansion release (with MSQ being primarily solo content beyond gathering up for hunts you didn't help spawn), yet in content where there's actual reason for multiple groups to join at once, there's nothing of the sort. I guess it's a limitation between the "run into the zone" vs the "queue via DF" method, but it still seems like a huge oversight.

In a way it seems like SE's expectation was that people would be pugging it and slowly getting more elemental gear and learning the fights, but in practice, why would they? That's like expecting everybody to pug through savage, then being shocked that people make statics. It would be moderately more reasonable if the whole instance was personal responsibility mechanics where hard enrages didn't exist (this is most of the spear bosses + raiden), but the last two bosses both have hard enrages and mechanics where someone not knowing what to do can easily kill a third of the raid, which is especially punishing considering the rez rules.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

Premades are allowed to ask that no one takes a portal but that’s as far as it goes. You are not being kind to others when you berate them for “stealing” something that never even belonged to you. People entering BA even with a group telling them “not to steal portals” are well within their right and aren’t breaking any rules.

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...540bb5eb1b.png

Womp womp.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

In a way it seems like SE's expectation was that people would be pugging it and slowly getting more elemental gear and learning the fights, but in practice, why would they?

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Yes imagine content not beaten on day one, or fearmed to death within 2 weeks... awful.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

Womp womp.

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this says to me those that actively try to disrupt groups are reportable those just going in with no ill intent aren't

I just hope the content survives long enough that I'm able to do it when my level is high enough. I'm praying.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...540bb5eb1b.png

Womp womp.

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Well there is a difference between snipping a portal to prevent players to enter and using a portal to take part in BA.
The first one is reportable, the second one is not. Moonfish is right...

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...540bb5eb1b.png

Womp womp.

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How, exactly, does this prove that entering BA to take part in the content against the rules? If you see people entering and leaving then feel free to report them. People joining to actually play are within their rights to, same as any group formed before entering Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Yes imagine content not beaten on day one, or fearmed to death within 2 weeks... awful.

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The world first clear happened two days after patch release, which is longer than world-first savage content, it's a pretty good clear time difficulty.

The issue has nothing to do with the actual time it takes to prog to a clear though, it's that there's absolutely no reason to make the instance many times harder for yourself by not pre-forming. It's the exact same thing as progressing through savage via PF instead of a static, except in this case the downside is amplified with 7x the amount of people to possibly make mistakes, with over 15x the time wasted each time someone wipes the group late in the raid. Is it possible? Maybe. But how many people do savage via PF prog if they can find a static that works with their times? Not many people, because the extra time wasted is just so much less worth it even if your static's only mediocre.

Even if it was pug-only, with the game somehow managing to 100% prevent premades and forcing total pugs, all that would happen is that this anger people have towards the pre-organized groups now would instead be focused towards new players 1-2 months later when pugs have been progging BA for months, getting more gear, and still not getting clears because they keep being wiped because a new guy drags a ball through the group on AV or blows everyone up with an acceleration bomb during ozma.

The difficulty range from the first boss to the last is absolutely massive, it makes no sense for there to not be a way to differentiate "I want to try up to the second boss" groups from "I want to try to clear" groups, which there wouldn't be if it was just pug only. Organization just makes things better for new players and experienced ones, everyone can get what they're looking for.

The duty does seem pretty badly designed, they should have made it a separate raid in DF that unlocks when you get max lvl in eureka.
You get instances where you can't get anyone into BA at all. If there's no premades you can't go in. Not enough people, and people are far too scared to even try it, if it's not a premade.
If there are premades, and you're not part of one, and go in, you'll get cussed out and reported.
If you don't go in, and someone is trying to clear, and most people have never seen the NM outside before, so the people outside didn't beat it, more cussing and reports.

The first time I saw the NM, nobody had dispel or feint on their bars, because we didn't know what it was. When the fate was already at 50%, someone inside was cussing and shouting "Dispel!!". But wouldn't tell anyone what to dispel and everyone outside was already at the fate, dying with no dispel on their bars, without much time to run back and get it. He told everyone afterwards that if you were at the fate, you trolled, and it was all your fault and you cost them a clear. Most of us there weren't even level 60 yet, let alone knew what to do :V

It was a huge mess, and it feels like BA was made not to be done.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...540bb5eb1b.png

Womp womp.

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There's a big difference.
1 is someone going in and either just afking in a corner or leaving so that they can successfully suck up a spot and screw someone over.
You would have to be able to prove that they did this.

Someone disregarding people asking them to not click on something they earned access to is different. No one has the right to tell them not to take a spot, the did the fate and meet the requirements. The game gives you the option to have a sure spot, people just don't take it.

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Originally Posted by Moshimoshikami

Well there is a difference between snipping a portal to prevent players to enter and using a portal to take part in BA.
The first one is reportable, the second one is not. Moonfish is right...

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And how do you take part in BA if you go in alone when 47 other players are in premades and will simply leave in that case ?

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

The duty does seem pretty badly designed, they should have made it a separate raid in DF that unlocks when you get max lvl in eureka.
You get instances where you can't get anyone into BA at all. If there's no premades you can't go in. Not enough people, and people are far too scared to even try it, if it's not a premade.
If there are premades, and you're not part of one, and go in, you'll get cussed out and reported.
If you don't go in, and someone is trying to clear, and most people have never seen the NM outside before, so the people outside didn't beat it, more cussing and reports.

The first time I saw the NM, nobody had dispel or feint on their bars, because we didn't know what it was. When the fate was already at 50%, someone inside was cussing and shouting "Dispel!!". But wouldn't tell anyone what to dispel and everyone outside was already at the fate, dying with no dispel on their bars, without much time to run back and get it. He told everyone afterwards that if you were at the fate, you trolled, and it was all your fault and you cost them a clear. Most of us there weren't even level 60 yet, let alone knew what to do :V

It was a huge mess, and it feels like BA was made not to be done.

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It's honestly a lost opportunity it's a damned if you do damned if you don't and there's no way to organize or invite people into a group I don't get why we can't invite people in Eureka, we couldn't do it in Diadem either to create Alliances but we could at least invite people. That's really unfortunate though that people are blaming and shaming other people and with the report that Bristol linked you can't report someone unless they're actively doing it but how would you know?

It's a mess honestly my friends have been telling me all week about how bad the groups are and how toxic it is for people to be actively yelled at when it's their first time and even on instance where one of my friends got blacklisted because she "supposedly" took the other persons friends spot.

The problem is, right now I'm seeing specific discords on some data centers celebrate this GM screenshot as proof that "They've got these randoms down" now. There are already names going around of randoms who will just join a portal without being in a group that called dibs on it. Some discord groups are threatening to ban/remove people who are seen as "snipers", even if they legitimately want to do the content and want nothing to do with Discord servers.

Yesterday evening it was impossible to find any instance not monopolized by +50 player discord groups. In fact, whenever a new instance spawned, it was because these large parties kept spamming to queue, and they would appropriate it.

I run some groups, but I've heard experiences from other players and even friends that the groups they were in was a very bad experience; a lot of yelling and people being downright rude.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

And how do you take part in BA if you go in alone when 47 other players are in premades and will simply leave in that case ?

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Looks like 47 people snipping portals...

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Originally Posted by Fiorinol

Yesterday evening it was impossible to find any instance not monopolized by +50 player discord groups. In fact, whenever a new instance spawned, it was because these large parties kept spamming to queue, and they would appropriate it.

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I think it's selfish to lay claim to portals, tbh. But at the same time I can understand why people want to form their own groups and make sure it goes as well as possible. SE should have made recruitment better and easier. To me, the fault mostly lies with the devs for not thinking this through. Eureka as a whole is a poorly designed mess imo. BA is pretty much the culmination of every bad decision they've made regarding this content. We've got a lack of a recruitment system in game (a proper one) and multiple layers of RNG while locking most of the good stuff behind it all because most people wouldn't touch it otherwise and SE knows it. And to top it all off there is a potential for exp loss if you fail.

Regardless of peoples opinion of portal sniping, all it comes down to is the design is bad. The portals were a terrible idea. This is an MMO. Players will want to create parties to run together, whether for prog or to run with their friends, and overlooking this or thinking the basic culture of party finding will change is terrible design.

But before you even get to the portals you spend the first hour with 6 groups spam entering and exiting instances until you all end up in the same one.

Problem is, not everyone has the same objective/skill/knowledge. People want to go into the same instance with people having the same objectives, and SE's system to too chaotic. Can you imagine one group looking to clear Ozma with 5 others there for the first time? Players are asking the community to organize itself so people with like-minded objective are all in the same instance. That's all. BA in general is a nice touch to Eureka, but it needs more refinement still.

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Originally Posted by Fiorinol

Yesterday evening it was impossible to find any instance not monopolized by +50 player discord groups. In fact, whenever a new instance spawned, it was because these large parties kept spamming to queue, and they would appropriate it.

I run some groups, but I've heard experiences from other players and even friends that the groups they were in was a very bad experience; a lot of yelling and people being downright rude.

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The problem is that players with different mindsets and motivations are forced together by SqE's poor implementation. Those that want to be super serious about BA cannot choose to be in their own instance and have things strict and orderly without some curious solo player interrupting. Those that want to be chill and just check it out between fates and chains cannot choose to be in a laid back instance and just take a look at the arsenal without bumping into a pre-made. Both groups are forced together at random with little to no player control.

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Originally Posted by Eisenhower

Those that want to be super serious about BA cannot choose to be in their own instance and have things strict and orderly without some curious solo player interrupting.

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They can if they make use of a stabilizer.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

They can if they make use of a stabilizer.

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And so could any player not part of a pre-made that happens to be there.

Perhaps an analogy would help:

There's a couple of football fields, and there are two teams that would like to play a match. There are also some other individual footballers that would like to kick some ball. But at the gate for the football fields, the players can't just go into an empty field of their choosing - or even a field that has space for them. They have to roll a dice and see which field they end up in. But hey, they can roll the dice as much as they want. No penalties or costs when you roll the dice!

The teams struggle to find each other in the same field and the other footballers are bothered by the teams trying to find a space to play. Everyone's troubled by the situation.

Are the teams at fault for trying to end up in the same field so they can play?
Are the field managers at fault for enforcing this method of entry?

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...540bb5eb1b.png

Womp womp.

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The reddit topic about that doesn't end here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...PL&sh=d0bcf69b

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...9-y1ai7wc2.png

It's like they put group content in the game and didn't think people would want to create groups for it

armory is awful. If you are courteous someone snipes your portal. If you say **** it and go in you get discord blacklisted. What great content for a great community (/s)

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

The reddit topic about that doesn't end here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...PL&sh=d0bcf69b

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...9-y1ai7wc2.png

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Yeah, I figured we were missing something here. I couldn't imagine SE punishing people for simply going in of their own volition. Now if they're doing so with the intentions stated then yeah I could see that. THAT makes much more sense.

I'm just throwing this out there NOW: BA is gonna HAVE to be broken off from Hydatos. People who are trying to organize runs are constantly running into the problem of simply not enough instances for the number of people trying to run it. What's gonna happen when nearly EVERYONE is 60 and this is all the majority of people will want to do?

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Originally Posted by Rangar

I'm just throwing this out there NOW: BA is gonna HAVE to be broken off from Hydatos. People who are trying to organize runs are constantly running into the problem of simply not enough instances for the number of people trying to run it. What's gonna happen when nearly EVERYONE is 60 and this is all the majority of people will want to do?

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You see, this would have required some forethought on the devs' part. We have seen none of that through Eureka and figured the trend would continue with Hydatos. Sometimes I think that they understand their player base well...then there's times like this where it's very clear that they do not. If people have to use a 3rd party program to put together a premade for this with the chance of not being able to find your groups in the same instance at all...it's bad design. Plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Rangar

I'm just throwing this out there NOW: BA is gonna HAVE to be broken off from Hydatos. People who are trying to organize runs are constantly running into the problem of simply not enough instances for the number of people trying to run it. What's gonna happen when nearly EVERYONE is 60 and this is all the majority of people will want to do?

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I imagine this won't be an issue in a few months, it will end up empty just like the emergency mission did. At that point it might actually be better though because then the discord premades will be the only people doing it lmao

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Originally Posted by cakesphere

I imagine this won't be an issue in a few months, it will end up empty just like the emergency mission did. At that point it might actually be better though because then the discord premades will be the only people doing it lmao

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In a few months, you won't be able to run this either cause EVERYONE will be doing Shadowbringer content

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Originally Posted by Rangar

In a few months, you won't be able to run this either cause EVERYONE will be doing Shadowbringer content

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That's what i meant by saying only discord groups, because the only way you might find people to do this content once shadowbringers hits is through discord

I don't think anybody that knows the EU exists would argue that it's a melting pot of different languages, but the likelihood of people being bilingual in the EU is much, MUCH higher than anywhere else in the world due to how the EU functions as a group of different countries. But I'm not talking about a LANGUAGE issue. I'm talking about a RACISM issue. Being called a Gaijin and laughed at when we're just trying to do stuff in an organised AND courteous fashion is ridiculous. And it's something you do not have to deal with, all of my EU friends have said it's hostile but it's not like THAT. But yeah, don't try and turn what I said into a thing about Language when it was about Racism.

Edit: OCE servers when SE? If you aren't enforcing your shiny new ToS policy regarding racism the least you can do is give us an out that doesn't require us playing with 300+ ping with a VPN. :)

JPN community PUG a lot but i never seen them get to ozma...
is there anymore clear other than the world fist?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

You see, this would have required some forethought on the devs' part. We have seen none of that through Eureka and figured the trend would continue with Hydatos. Sometimes I think that they understand their player base well...then there's times like this where it's very clear that they do not. If people have to use a 3rd party program to put together a premade for this with the chance of not being able to find your groups in the same instance at all...it's bad design. Plain and simple.

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yeah, i can't imagine they saw this coming. it's clear they expected the people in the instance to just magically work together and take on the Arsenal with all the randoms figuring out parties once they're inside, which is why there's a waiting room with a board and manipulator. And maybe that will be the case someday, but not anytime soon.

Haven't reached 60 but if what people are saying is true, that the final story piece is behind the Arsenal, then either Yoshi-P lied to us or he doesn't know what his developers are doing.

Yoshi said that we wouldn't have to worry about the arsenal being part of the Eureka story.

And both are equally frightening.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Haven't reached 60 but if what people are saying is true, that the final story piece is behind the Arsenal, then either Yoshi-P lied to us or he doesn't know what his developers are doing.

Yoshi said that we wouldn't have to worry about the arsenal being part of the Eureka story.

And both are equally frightening.

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edit: nvm I was misinformed!

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Originally Posted by Dasya

Eureka's story is finished with the quest at 60. BA is just extra side material that's related to the story.

It's like the Extreme or Savage unlocking. "We want you to go to X for Y reason" <Duty Unlocked> No actual quest given for it.

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While semi off-topic from original feedback thread... I do want to clear up this misconception, because this is false and there is MOST DEFIANTLY a quest that finishes up the Eureka storyline AFTER defeating Ozma, along with cut scenes. This cutscene varies based on what you originally choose during the 60 quest (husband choose different version so we ended up seeing both ending scenarios) and it truly does end the story line as at the end you actually get "Fin" where as the 60 quest DOES NOT give this in either scenario. You'll also get an additional achievement- but it gives 0 achievement points and no title so its pretty mute.

https://i.imgur.com/6bKsWy4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/H90evVi.png
https://i.imgur.com/GnGztr5.png

Welp, looks like I'll have to clear BA at some point now.

Thanks for the correction!