Gath ponders on "Master" crafting.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Then help us round those corners off so it fits in the holes.

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Why would I, or anyone for that matter, want to do that, when the round pegs of the system we have now, work great, with the games dynamics as it is ?

What I think would be nice is:

• Allow leveling any and all classes to max level, with all recipes available to anyone. Don't lock anyone out.
• Make high-level recipes feasible, but difficult/risky without specialization.
• Add in specialization through the Jobs system, with the constraint that only a limited number of crafting classes can be promoted to Jobs for a character at any given time. (Once you've obtained, say one or two crafting Jobs, all others are locked out)
• Have Job-specific gear and abilities that gives significant crafting bonuses (or alleviates the level requirement of some recipes), effectively making crafting more efficient and more desirable for high-level recipes than the base class.
• To avoid content lock-out, allow characters to resign from a specialized Job, effectively rendering the Job-specific gear and bonuses for that job unusable, but allowing another choice of specialization. The resigned Job should be available again only after a set time has passed (say 30 Earth days) to discourage hot-swapping.

And there you go, specialization that actually has a very real purpose and doesn't permanently lock out anything from anyone. If you make a bad choice, you can fix it.

I'm OK with content lock-out regarding Starting City quests and Grand Company quests, you're basically getting something equivalent no matter which path you choose, but if you decide to specialize in Cooking and realize it sucks, you should have a means of changing your specialization, but not anytime or anyway you'd like.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Why would I, or anyone for that matter, want to do that, when the round pegs of the system we have now, work great, with the games dynamics as it is ?

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Because it doesn't. If anybody can gather all the mats they need, then turn around and craft them without having to worry about anybody else it makes it so more and more people don't need to shop in the wards. If not a lot of armor, mats, or weapons are going into the wards because the people just say "screw the middleman" and go off and do it all themselves. Last Gath checked, MMOs are meant to help one another, is Gath wrong? No! Yes, SE ORIGINALLY stated that you can do anything and everything, but remember, when people voted, they said they accept dramatic changes to the game and it's client.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Because it doesn't. If anybody can gather all the mats they need, then turn around and craft them without having to worry about anybody else it makes it so more and more people don't need to shop in the wards. If not a lot of armor, mats, or weapons are going into the wards because the people just say "screw the middleman" and go off and do it all themselves. Last Gath checked, MMOs are meant to help one another, is Gath wrong? No! Yes, SE ORIGINALLY stated that you can do anything and everything, but remember, when people voted, they said they accept dramatic changes to the game and it's client.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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So itl be ok if you can only ever learn 1 job, and you are restricted on leveling combat classes too

if its ok to do it to crafting, its ok to do it to combat too



as i said, this post is 100% hate vs crafters by people who do not craft, it has no actual merit to improving the game itself

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

restricting crafting like in xi is just an se money grab so people have to make crafting mules
it has nothing to do with enhancing the gameplay

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THIS.

How can anyone not see this??

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Originally Posted by Inzoum

THIS.

How can anyone not see this??

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except that SE isnt doing, players who hate crafting are demanding it to mess up crafters who do it all

Gath, I don't ever bother reading your posts because you talk about yourself in the third person. What are you, 5?

What's wrong with a little self-sufficiency? I mean it's not like crafting classes level as fast as battle. If I put all that time in, I should be fairly rewarded. As someone earlier stated, the only reason you see people running around with all crafts at 50 is because there's little else to do at this point, especially considering battle classes level so quickly. Once 2.0 hits and we have all this content and all these new players, I doubt you'll see as many people with all crafts at 50.

Also as others have suggested, all issues brought forth by people for the restriction of crafting classes could be dealt with in other ways.

As I stated, if everyone can be max crafter, it will be OP. You wouldn't need to rely on anyone else at all. I for one don't wanna see the market controlled by one person who does do this.....

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Originally Posted by Rokien

As I stated, if everyone can be max crafter, it will be OP. You wouldn't need to rely on anyone else at all. I for one don't wanna see the market controlled by one person who does do this.....

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Yeah because the market will be controlled by one person if we can potentially have all crafts at 50. You act like this is a common thing and that everyone in the game has all crafts at 50. Not having to rely on other people isn't a bad thing necessarily, it removes one person from the market if they don't feel like being lazy. The bigger issue is that people are doing this because they have literally nothing else to do.

Yeah, worst case scenario if every last person on all servers had every craft at 50, it probably wouldn't be good for the economy. Doubt it'll ever happen on that scale.

Horrible idea.. and Synyster Blitz ponders on why Gath can never rebuttle anything anyone says and only comes back with the same old saying " Law of Gaythematics and Gath is just so awesome" which is soooo funny cause you are the biggest troll in these forums and noone but yourself thinks your awesome...

Dont you see how many Likes people get who dislike you... EVERYONE DISLIKES YOU GATH...

and thus would bring down your value... so all in all your 1 gil is worth shit all compared to anyone elses.. deflation from that huge ass troll ego you carry around..

Quite honestly now is not the right time for this discussion. 6-8 months after the public release od Ver 2.0 would be more appropriate for several reasons.

1. Demographics - the current population is comprised almost exclusively of people who have been playing the game for over a year. hat fact will not change between now and January/2013. The vast majority of these players have numerous jobs capped. When Ver 2.0 is released and if it is successful then that will change. Let's wait til we see how the new players approach the game before me make adustments of this nature.

2. Game Play - Ver 1.21 is going to be the last truely radical change to the game in its current configuration. Granted we will still be getting Hamlet Defense, a Primal fight and the Garlean story line but they should not have an effect on Game Play in regards to crafting. Many of the things that we are doing now will not carry over to Ver 2.0. We need to wait til we see what is in store for us after the change over. It could dramatically alter the nature of Crafting as well as everything else in the game. We do not know. If it does not then we can revisit this discussion

As others have said on this thread: leveling curve is going to dissuade crafters from getting everything to max.

If you just add an even harder challenge to that such as: You need a rare item (similar to an abjuration from FFXI), from a hard to kill mob, that has a super low drop rate to unlock the secrets of your craft. Then you will see very few with all crafts to max and unlocked.

And maybe you could take it even further by requiring 1 million experience points be traded with the rare item, and a set of quests that unlocks legendary recipes requiring more rare materials or items.

It would add depth to the crafting classes and a challenge to those who wish to unlock them all. Oh and maybe a relic crafting tools too XD!

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Originally Posted by Valhol

As others have said on this thread: leveling curve is going to dissuade crafters from getting everything to max.

If you just add an even harder challenge to that such as: You need a rare item (similar to an abjuration from FFXI), from a hard to kill mob, that has a super low drop rate to unlock the secrets of your craft. Then you will see very few with all crafts to max and unlocked.

And maybe you could take it even further by requiring 1 million experience points be traded with the rare item, and a set of quests that unlocks legendary recipes requiring more rare materials or items.

It would add depth to the crafting classes and a challenge to those who wish to unlock them all. Oh and maybe a relic crafting tools too XD!

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your first sentence is the major thing the people wanting these limits to continue to overlook.

1. alot people have crafted because they are done with everything else the game has to offer atm. they do not care about taking the crafts any higher because they only done it to have something to do instead of being bored.

2. once we start seeing massive amounts of content coming into the game there will be less people that are willing to put time into crafting because they would be having fun completing the content.

3. once the cap raises and the sp to gain a level increases you will see less and less people taking every class higher. they will specialize in a few classes in battle and probably 1 or 2 crafts. once the following increase goes into game less will take more crafts up. by the time you hit 99 maybe 1 of 100 that has every craft at 50 will have more than 2 at 99 anyways.

last time i looked there was only a few hundred(around 400) total that has every class to cap across all servers combined. of the 28 on my server only 3 of those are active atm and still playing because the rest are either taking extended breaks or have already quit the game. of the 28 on my server there may be 12(high end estimate) that will take every class to 60 once the cap is raised. once we get to 70 as the cap maybe only 3-4 will take them all there. my point is that once the amount of time and effort required to level each and every class raises you will see less and people doing so.

4. the natural loss of players as the game gets older. yes, i know people that already have every class capped and have already left the game. this game will always fluctuate with characters. as new people join the game there will be people that have been playing for a long time that will be leaving. i go back to those 28 with all classes capped on my server again. we've been playing for over a year and we've probably had @10 of those 28 have quit.

i guess what i am saying is if there's people that are actually playing this game for nothing more than crafting then why should we limit that very small minority from being able to enjoy the game. i'm not against having a specialty inside of each craft that they are better at than another aspect of it, but i'm against stopping people from leveling it at all. a blacksmith may be able to specialize in either making tools, weapons, or parts and it makes them complete those easier. that is ok, but to say because i know how to make a sword i can't make a hammer is kinda crazy. i may not be able to make the hammer as easily as someone that specializes in hammers, but i could still make one.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

So itl be ok if you can only ever learn 1 job, and you are restricted on leveling combat classes too

if its ok to do it to crafting, its ok to do it to combat too



as i said, this post is 100% hate vs crafters by people who do not craft, it has no actual merit to improving the game itself

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This was not posted against crafters, you're just being ignorant in the future of what will happen after there is a large amount at 50 like there is now. Gath has been working on his crafts as of late but Gath would not be butthurt if they decided on a master craft. Gath agrees, crafting is boring but Gath also agrees that everybody should have a need for other services that they cannot initially do. Would just make things better.

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

Horrible idea.. and Synyster Blitz ponders on why Gath can never rebuttle anything anyone says and only comes back with the same old saying " Law of Gaythematics and Gath is just so awesome" which is soooo funny cause you are the biggest troll in these forums and noone but yourself thinks your awesome...

Dont you see how many Likes people get who dislike you... EVERYONE DISLIKES YOU GATH...

and thus would bring down your value... so all in all your 1 gil is worth shit all compared to anyone elses.. deflation from that huge ass troll ego you carry around..

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Bro, you just jelly of Gath, after all the hate you give Gath it just points at that one thing.

Have fun trying to follow in Gath's footsteps! ^^v

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

your first sentence is the major thing the people wanting these limits to continue to overlook.

1. alot people have crafted because they are done with everything else the game has to offer atm. they do not care about taking the crafts any higher because they only done it to have something to do instead of being bored.

2. once we start seeing massive amounts of content coming into the game there will be less people that are willing to put time into crafting because they would be having fun completing the content.

3. once the cap raises and the sp to gain a level increases you will see less and less people taking every class higher. they will specialize in a few classes in battle and probably 1 or 2 crafts. once the following increase goes into game less will take more crafts up. by the time you hit 99 maybe 1 of 100 that has every craft at 50 will have more than 2 at 99 anyways.

last time i looked there was only a few hundred(around 400) total that has every class to cap across all servers combined. of the 28 on my server only 3 of those are active atm and still playing because the rest are either taking extended breaks or have already quit the game. of the 28 on my server there may be 12(high end estimate) that will take every class to 60 once the cap is raised. once we get to 70 as the cap maybe only 3-4 will take them all there. my point is that once the amount of time and effort required to level each and every class raises you will see less and people doing so.

4. the natural loss of players as the game gets older. yes, i know people that already have every class capped and have already left the game. this game will always fluctuate with characters. as new people join the game there will be people that have been playing for a long time that will be leaving. i go back to those 28 with all classes capped on my server again. we've been playing for over a year and we've probably had @10 of those 28 have quit.

i guess what i am saying is if there's people that are actually playing this game for nothing more than crafting then why should we limit that very small minority from being able to enjoy the game. i'm not against having a specialty inside of each craft that they are better at than another aspect of it, but i'm against stopping people from leveling it at all. a blacksmith may be able to specialize in either making tools, weapons, or parts and it makes them complete those easier. that is ok, but to say because i know how to make a sword i can't make a hammer is kinda crazy. i may not be able to make the hammer as easily as someone that specializes in hammers, but i could still make one.

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Agreed on all points, quoted because I feel it needs to be said again.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

As I stated, if everyone can be max crafter, it will be OP. You wouldn't need to rely on anyone else at all. I for one don't wanna see the market controlled by one person who does do this.....

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With 2.0 we need to earn our recipes (leves, quests and level up) instead of looking at fan pages.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post566596
SE could make very rare recipes which not everyone would have.
And 50 is only max level pre 2.0. I'm sure there is a new level cap post 2.0

Elreed still thinks that Gath needs a girlfriend/boyfriend....

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Originally Posted by Gath

Bro, you just jelly of Gath, after all the hate you give Gath it just points at that one thing.

Have fun trying to follow in Gath's footsteps! ^^v

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Go troll your own forums lol... oh wait no ones there...

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

So itl be ok if you can only ever learn 1 job, and you are restricted on leveling combat classes too

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Here I will point back to FF XI. Yes you could level all combat jobs to 75, but once you got there the merit system imposed certain limits that forced you to make choices. The system was quite flexible when you consider how diverse the jobs were, but in the end you really had to pick a main in order to use merits to make your character 'Impossible to Guage.'

You could switch from say main black mage to main pld, but doing so made you throw away hundreds of thousands of experience points and earn them all over again. Not a big deal once summoner burns and abyssea were introduced, but in the glory days of XI changing mains was not for the faint of heart.

In consideration of everything that has been said in this thread so far I don't advocate not letting people level everything, but I do advocate some sort of specialization system when you get your jobs to a certain level.

very good new about them adding recipes so u don't' have to go and look up recipes every time. i just came back from away and i can't tell u how much i hated going back to crafting cause i didn't want to look up recipes to put in my syth box. it's so tedious, and worst when u move all the good recipes off u'r saves from stupid things like lumber or ingots and have to go to loadstone or gremlins to find recipe again. horrible. but very glad they fixing this.

but lets still hope they change there minds and never do a master craft. i hate this idea, i also hate the idea that i did all 50's and won't be able to keep going. it will be ok maybe if 50 is the cap and anything more needs them as subs but really i still hate this idea, it just means eventually i won't have to craft anymore. let me keep progressing in crafts if i have the time. it's not really hurting anyone.

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Originally Posted by weeble

very good new about them adding recipes so u don't' have to go and look up recipes every time. i just came back from away and i can't tell u how much i hated going back to crafting cause i didn't want to look up recipes to put in my syth box. it's so tedious, and worst when u move all the good recipes off u'r saves from stupid things like lumber or ingots and have to go to loadstone or gremlins to find recipe again. horrible. but very glad they fixing this.

but lets still hope they change there minds and never do a master craft. i hate this idea, i also hate the idea that i did all 50's and won't be able to keep going. it will be ok maybe if 50 is the cap and anything more needs them as subs but really i still hate this idea, it just means eventually i won't have to craft anymore. let me keep progressing in crafts if i have the time. it's not really hurting anyone.

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the only real issue i have with the recipe's only is the fact that if you want to synth something you will have to look through hundreds of recipes to find the one you are looking for. could be quite a pain for controllers to take 30 minutes looking for a recipe for lumber when i could grab the item and do the synth 10 times before i even find the recipe to start.