Skipping cutscenes in MSQ Roulette

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I can tell you every single time I do MSQ roulette, which is daily for the Genesis tomes,.

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The 50 Genesis tomes would be gotten a LOT faster by just running a Burn or St. Moch's (Hard)

Gotta be honest they'd need to triple the genesis tome reward for me to bother at level 70.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Gotta be honest they'd need to triple the genesis tome reward for me to bother at level 70.

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You wouldn't have any real reason to run it at level 70 anyway. Also Genesis can be gained much quicker from Expert duties as mentioned....

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The 50 Genesis tomes would be gotten a LOT faster by just running a Burn or St. Moch's (Hard)

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Originally Posted by Kurando

You wouldn't have any real reason to run it at level 70 anyway. Also Genesis can be gained much quicker from Expert duties as mentioned....

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Hence why I said they'd need to triple the genesis reward to 150 for me to even consider it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The 50 Genesis tomes would be gotten a LOT faster by just running a Burn or St. Moch's (Hard)

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Or an alliance roulette.

Or heck, just spam Alphascape if you're eating time. You'll get a similar rate on genesis/HR AND gear any alt you'd ever want to play

Was leveling RDM this morning, did MSQ roullete and got the one with the extra cutscenese (the one with Ultima fight), some ppl were able to bypass the cutscenes by "exiting the game and logging back in". Ultima in his 1st and 2nd form and that Hyur guy, they were all dead by the time the cutscenes finished lol.

I used to do the roulette at a tank. I just don't do it anymore. Seemed like the solution that made the most sense and I am a much happier player.

I'm sure that the players who complained about it go back daily to spend an hour rewatching them and improving the queue times for everyone else who needs it. SE made sure that it was a win win for everyone.

Really what they should have done was retuned it to be soloable and taken it out of the roulette altogether. The good news is they learned their lesson about dumping their wanna-be movies into the middle of a raid.

This is doubly horrible due to the timing of the CS, always in the middle of a fight... I hate having to watch them over and over but, if they would wait till you are no longer engaged by mobs, and then pop. I feel this would reduce the hate for the CS's, but as they are it feels like the CS's are what you are actually fighting.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

Was leveling RDM this morning, did MSQ roullete and got the one with the extra cutscenese (the one with Ultima fight), some ppl were able to bypass the cutscenes by "exiting the game and logging back in". Ultima in his 1st and 2nd form and that Hyur guy, they were all dead by the time the cutscenes finished lol.

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Report people if they do that. It's a known exploit and against the TOS.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Report people if they do that. It's a known exploit and against the TOS.

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Fascinating that even after all these months later, people still hate those cutscenes so much they'll still use exploits to skip them. Even if it's something that can get them actioned.

Makes you think, hmm.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Fascinating that even after all these months later, people still hate those cutscenes so much they'll still use exploits to skip them. Even if it's something that can get them actioned.

Makes you think, hmm.

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Makes me think people shouldn't run the content if they don't wanna wait through cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Makes me think people shouldn't run the content if they don't wanna wait through cutscenes.

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And yet, even the threat of a ban won't stop them from doing what they want to do when content is this abysmal. Square's design is the problem here, players gonna play.

Raise the incentives further, and you'll see more people just flouting the rules.

Do I personally use this exploit? Not at all; I have better ways to get what I want. I simply understand the core of human nature that would metaphorically cause a player to give this dungeon the middle finger, yet run it anyway.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

And yet, even the threat of a ban won't stop them from doing what they want to do when content is this abysmal. Square's design is the problem here, players gonna play.

Raise the incentives further, and you'll see more people just flouting the rules.

Do I personally use this exploit? Not at all; I have better ways to get what I want. I simply understand the core of human nature that would metaphorically cause a player to give this dungeon the middle finger, yet run it anyway.

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so.. because people break laws anyway why do we even have them? ... sound logic there.

I usually chat during the cutscenes, making jokes, poking fun at the red ranger with the pointy head, Evil Thancred who is suffering from a gas problem, the gold Christmas tree boss guy with the hornaments and shiny ball in the middle of his head. It's also a good way to find out how other servers are doing, and making new friends. Those that want to participate can, and those who want to watch the cutscenes can. By the way SE, we still need a class that can swing them giant hammers. Loving the thought of that one.

With the Trust system hopefully, they will just make these a solo dungeon and the issued will be resolve.

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Originally Posted by Gaiinahat

the gold Christmas tree boss guy with the hornaments

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*snerk*

I really don’t understand the design choice of those baubles. They look ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

With the Trust system hopefully, they will just make these a solo dungeon and the issued will be resolve.

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I have to wonder about that. On the one hand it would be functionally great, on the other hand my understanding is that trusts will be tied to the characters’ MSQ availability - and every NPC that could help you here is deliberately occupied elsewhere, to explain why they’re not helping you to begin with, while you specifically lead a band of adventurers into the castrum.

They could give you NPCs that look like random adventurers, I guess. Maybe the same recurring NPCs you see around Revenant’s Toll and occasionally inside the Waking Sands. Then again you specifically recruit those guys later for the Steps of Faith, so maybe not.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

With the Trust system hopefully, they will just make these a solo dungeon and the issued will be resolve.

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If they do, it will be at some point in the future. As is, trusts will only be for Shadowbringers story dungeons. They may expand it over time, but who knows when.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

Was leveling RDM this morning, did MSQ roullete and got the one with the extra cutscenese (the one with Ultima fight), some ppl were able to bypass the cutscenes by "exiting the game and logging back in". Ultima in his 1st and 2nd form and that Hyur guy, they were all dead by the time the cutscenes finished lol.

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Woah does that really work?? That's freaking genius. I might actually pick msq roulette back up if that's the case!

I actually used to run MSQ Roulette pretty consistently (and without regard to a reward), but the forced cutscene changes subsequently ended that. The time investment for the cutscenes versus the actual dungeons themselves is so horrifically out of balance to the point that outside of helping a friend clear it, I just don't have the will to queue, or even enough time some days.

If there's one thing I think we can all agree on, it's that all of these should have been converted into solo duties.

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Originally Posted by Sanctify

Woah does that really work?? That's freaking genius. I might actually pick msq roulette back up if that's the case!

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1. That's an exploit and bannable
2. The whole point of the roulette is so that people can experience the content without someone rushing through it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Makes me think people shouldn't run the content if they don't wanna wait through cutscenes.

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Or maybe they need to go back and do something about those particular duties because the way they are made has been causing problems with the player base since their original addition back in ARR. It's only 2 MSQ duties though out of the 2 Praetorium is the bigger offender as they put enough cutscenes in it to compete with end of chapter CS's that we get advisories about when turning in a step to an NPC. It's like asking people to help move a large object but then telling them they have to watch a 30 minute TV show episode then another once its through the door before moving it the rest of the way to where it needs to be.

It's not an issue about it being an 8 man non trial duty but more of the issues of putting those long cutscenes into it. If they took out the CS's it would be a good template for a new duty type with 8 members ending out at a lower scaled trials type boss but not have these chained together in a story to be a tiered raid of sorts.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Or maybe they need to go back and do something about those particular duties because the way they are made has been causing problems with the player base since their original addition back in ARR. It's only 2 MSQ duties though out of the 2 Praetorium is the bigger offender as they put enough cutscenes in it to compete with end of chapter CS's that we get advisories about when turning in a step to an NPC. It's like asking people to help move a large object but then telling them they have to watch a 30 minute TV show episode then another once its through the door before moving it the rest of the way to where it needs to be.

It's not an issue about it being an 8 man non trial duty but more of the issues of putting those long cutscenes into it. If they took out the CS's it would be a good template for a new duty type with 8 members ending out at a lower scaled trials type boss but not have these chained together in a story to be a tiered raid of sorts.

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They have already said they'll never put long cutscenes into a dungeon again. I wonder why people fight so vehemently for reworking content they can ignore?
If you did it , you did it. You're done. You never really HAVE to do it again.
If you want to do it again, you gotta watch the cutscenes. If you don't wanna watch the cutscenes, why do you want to do it again?
If you are playing an alt, that's part of the grind to level, you likely have spent more time grinding.
If you're running the roulette, you gotta watch the cutscenes, people need to get through the content and lots of them actually wanna watch the story.
If you asked someone to help you move a large object, told them they had to watch the movie but promised a cheeseburger after they were done, they get to decide if the cheeseburger is worth it or not. They DON'T get to accept , and then demand a steak instead.

they should at least make them skippable if everyone in the party has already completed those dungeons

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

They have already said they'll never put long cutscenes into a dungeon again. I wonder why people fight so vehemently for reworking content they can ignore?
If you did it , you did it. You're done. You never really HAVE to do it again.
If you want to do it again, you gotta watch the cutscenes. If you don't wanna watch the cutscenes, why do you want to do it again?
If you are playing an alt, that's part of the grind to level, you likely have spent more time grinding.
If you're running the roulette, you gotta watch the cutscenes, people need to get through the content and lots of them actually wanna watch the story.
If you asked someone to help you move a large object, told them they had to watch the movie but promised a cheeseburger after they were done, they get to decide if the cheeseburger is worth it or not. They DON'T get to accept , and then demand a steak instead.

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Hey now, logic does not belong in any discussion regarding the two MSQ dungeons that are completely optional after the very first time you do them.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

they should at least make them skippable if everyone in the party has already completed those dungeons

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which would probably lead to people booting new players until they got an appropriate match

Are the CS skippable if theres no new players in the instance? Can I make a "msq roulette no bonus" pf and do it in a timely manner that way or no?

I'm still a bit stunned that people are complaining about getting so much EXP for watching 27 minutes of cutscenes. Or, more likely watching something else.

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Originally Posted by Sanctify

Are the CS skippable if theres no new players in the instance? Can I make a "msq roulette no bonus" pf and do it in a timely manner that way or no?

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No. It is legit reportable if you're caught skipping and advertising it on the PF is a sure-fire way to get people to do it en-mass. This is all regardless of whether or not there is a newbie in the party or not.

I just watch videos on youtube when i run MSQ

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

1. That's an exploit and bannable
2. The whole point of the roulette is so that people can experience the content without someone rushing through it.

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1) It's not an exploit and I've yet to hear anyone being banned for that
2) The MSQ was to get people through but SE was too damn lazy to actually FIX the thing properly specifically the CS heavy Praetorium by either splitting it into 2 parts or instance the first half and turn the Ultima part into a trial.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

1) It's not an exploit and I've yet to hear anyone being banned for that
2) The MSQ was to get people through but SE was too damn lazy to actually FIX the thing properly specifically the CS heavy Praetorium by either splitting it into 2 parts or instance the first half and turn the Ultima part into a trial.

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Deliberatelly bypassing a cutscene that has been specifically designed to be non skippable looks a lot like an exploit.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

1) It's not an exploit and I've yet to hear anyone being banned for that
2) The MSQ was to get people through but SE was too damn lazy to actually FIX the thing properly specifically the CS heavy Praetorium by either splitting it into 2 parts or instance the first half and turn the Ultima part into a trial.

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Dealt with people who do this, I always warn them that it might be bannable - even if I have never heard them of getting banned by doing it.
Seems like an exploit, so it probably falls under just that.
Not that I mind, they are making my fights easier, and it's usually pretty funny to see.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

The MSQ was to get people through but SE was too damn lazy to actually FIX the thing properly specifically the CS heavy Praetorium by either splitting it into 2 parts or instance the first half and turn the Ultima part into a trial.

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I’d rather have dev resources put into making new content tbh rather than wasting it on fixing old content that we deem tedious

Funny thing is, there's a lot of people, like myself, and almost every member of my FC, that started to run this roulette MORE after the change. All the salt and drama of speed-runners vs. CS watchers was stripped out in one fell swoop, and it's now a braindead easy source of exp and level 50/60 tomes for gearing alt jobs and characters. If the rewards once all jobs are at 70 is lackluster, then just skip it, it's not like there's 6+ other, FASTER roulettes to run for tomes-OH WAIT.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

1) It's not an exploit and I've yet to hear anyone being banned for that
2) The MSQ was to get people through but SE was too damn lazy to actually FIX the thing properly specifically the CS heavy Praetorium by either splitting it into 2 parts or instance the first half and turn the Ultima part into a trial.

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Please by all means post your video of you doing this and see how well the GMs take it.
It was originally meant to get it done, sure. But with the new changes to the system it's obviously made to allow people to view the story unpressured. I think the amount of impact and the desired effect were achieved and this old content requires at very most a way to run it in a premade party and being allowed to skip the cutscenes.. but as it is, don't like it? don't do it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Please by all means post your video of you doing this and see how well the GMs take it.
It was originally meant to get it done, sure. But with the new changes to the system it's obviously made to allow people to view the story unpressured. I think the amount of impact and the desired effect were achieved and this old content requires at very most a way to run it in a premade party and being allowed to skip the cutscenes.. but as it is, don't like it? don't do it.

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What video are you talking about exactly? I don't post video's lol!

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Originally Posted by Umsche

Deliberatelly bypassing a cutscene that has been specifically designed to be non skippable looks a lot like an exploit.

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Exploit's are usually bugs in the code that result in significant unfair advantage like Ungarmax, this one doesn't as it's hard to justify calling something an exploit when its something that literally involves turning your internet off and on again.

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Originally Posted by Taramin

Funny thing is, there's a lot of people, like myself, and almost every member of my FC, that started to run this roulette MORE after the change. All the salt and drama of speed-runners vs. CS watchers was stripped out in one fell swoop, and it's now a braindead easy source of exp and level 50/60 tomes for gearing alt jobs and characters. If the rewards once all jobs are at 70 is lackluster, then just skip it, it's not like there's 6+ other, FASTER roulettes to run for tomes-OH WAIT.

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I have a multimonitor PC so I can just play another game on the other monitor but generally I only do the prae to lazymode level my Aura alt these days, that being said the 2.0 MSQ was badly designed and really in the medium to long term at least they should have broken up Praetorium into 2 parts at least as that one you spend more time afk than actually doing anything! XD

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Originally Posted by Raiya

What video are you talking about exactly? I don't post video's lol!

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Let me be more plain in my language:
If you were to show proof of you closing the game to skip the cutscenes to a GM you would be punished. It is very much circumventing a restriction they put into place.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

Exploit's are usually bugs in the code that result in significant unfair advantage like Ungarmax, this one doesn't as it's hard to justify calling something an exploit when its something that literally involves turning your internet off and on again.

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There is no exact definition of a game Exploit. However generally it's agreed upon that it's causing the game to act in a way the creators did not intend, usually for the players benefit. Just because you say it's not a big enough advantage doesn't negate the fact you are causing the game to react in a way they didn't intend.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

Exploit's are usually bugs in the code that result in significant unfair advantage like Ungarmax, this one doesn't as it's hard to justify calling something an exploit when its something that literally involves turning your internet off and on again.

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It's an exploit because it takes advantage of the way the game works, allowing you to break out of a cutscene that is clearly intended to lock you in place for its entire duration.

Within the game itself, there is no way to get out early. The cutscene has been made unskippable for the exact purpose of locking everyone down for the same period of time.

In normal gameplay you arrive at the trigger point, which tells the game to start playing the cutscene. It ticks off that progress flag. You have been shown the cutscene.

By disconnecting your Internet or closing the program, you've gone outside of the game in a way that the devs cannot control or prevent. When you log back in, you are exploiting the fact that the game does not recognise that you should still be watching the cutscene at a fixed pace, and thus is not able to hold you in place - because the "watching cutscene" status is itself the method of holding you.

You can get technical about whether you're exploiting a bug within the game itself or the way it interacts with other programs/network connections, but you are undoubtably taking advantage of a flaw somewhere to do something that the creators of the game did not intend to be possible.

And my dictionary, which I didn't look at until just now, defines 'exploit' as to "take advantage of for one's own purposes".

Argue the definition of a computer exploit if you like, but it's certainly exploiting the programming in a broader sense.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

In normal gameplay you arrive at the trigger point, which tells the game to start playing the cutscene. It ticks off that progress flag. You have been shown the cutscene.

By disconnecting your Internet or closing the program, you've gone outside of the game in a way that the devs cannot control or prevent. When you log back in, you are "exploiting" the fact that the game does not recognise that you should still be watching the cutscene at a fixed pace, and thus is not able to hold you in place - because the "watching cutscene" status is itself the method of holding you.

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Could Square Enix therefore change cutscenes to be "ticked off" after completion (at the longest level language cutscene per cutscene), rather than before. That way if you disconnect, it restarts the cutscene automatically? And if a new cutscene is tripped, the old one ends automatically and you're pushed to the new one? Could that potentially fix it?