please God just call it port

and there you'd think they learned to have someone ready to slap Koji on his fingers with a ruler after the whole "Papalymo's final witness" debacle...

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

That AOE marker feels like trolling to me. I have no problems having to react to scripted boss mechanics (like Construct 7 in the Lighthouse) but please don't place markers when you have no chance of reacting to them. That's just evil.

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You can see the attack name in the casting bar before the ground marker is visible. That’s what you’re supposed to respond to. By the time the marker appears, it’s really just to show what ground it covers, so you can learn where to stand. (Particularly important since it does extend beyond the centre line. And for learning to associate the terms with left and right in the first place.)

I rearranged my UI by splitting up the Target Info bar and putting the cast bar at maximum size in the middle of my screen. It’s helped me to notice attacks a lot more.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

I really don't know why you're being so pedantic over this. They are reading it, not hearing it, and if you read it the kanji for it "left" and "right" are present, this is not the case for English, that's 100% the only thing that matters here, not how sagen or ugen are pronounced.

Additionally this is a localization, not translation, things don't need to change in JP for them to change in EN, they change entire lines of text all the time.

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Very simply, it's a feature of kanji that gives you hints about words all the time. If a word is made up of multiple kanji, you can get extra information. But, the actual word to be translated is the nautical term. The same issue would happen in the Temple of the Fist too. I'm betting that there's other times where the kanji helped.

Sure, they changed entire lines of text, but they generally keep the same intent. The intent is for the attack name to to use nautical terms, so they did that in every language.

The exact same issue happens with French and German in that they're using the nautical terms.

The localization consideration is really which term to use larboard or port. I've heard people who say that larboard is easier because the l makes it easier to remember that it's left whereas I (and others) would prefer port.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Can't wait for 5.0 when we all get introduced to stern and bow.

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We had Fore/Aft in Temple of the Fist.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You can see the attack name in the casting bar before the ground marker is visible. That’s what you’re supposed to respond to. By the time the marker appears, it’s really just to show what ground it covers, so you can learn where to stand. (Particularly important since it does extend beyond the center line. And for learning to associate the terms with left and right in the first place.)

I rearranged my UI by splitting up the Target Info bar and putting the cast bar at maximum size in the middle of my screen. It’s helped me to notice attacks a lot more.

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You arent wrong, but the cast bar doesn't help everyone. If a healer isn't targeting Omega, they wont see the bar. Yes, there is focus target, but it has a separate cast bar that is a lot smaller than the focus bar; so it would be difficult to see, unless you max out the size and place it in direct view.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

You arent wrong, but the cast bar doesn't help everyone. If a healer isn't targeting Omega, they wont see the bar. Yes, there is focus target, but it has a separate cast bar that is a lot smaller than the focus bar; so it would be difficult to see, unless you max out the size and place it in direct view.

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That is entirely the purpose of focus target and has been for 5 years. Why is it this one mechanic that people suddenly have a problem with reading and associating skills? We have been doing it for years.

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Originally Posted by Vrahjin

No, it's almost like different people have difficulties with different things. Oh wait..

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Thats got nothing to do with the problem. This is nowhere near the first time that a mechanic requires memorisation of the ability name (despite the name itself not explaining the skill), in fact most complex mechanics "suffer" from this. I'm just trying to work out why having Nautical terms (which explain better than most mechanics) suddenly is unacceptable when Tsukyomis Dark Blade and Bright Blade/Full Moon and New Moon didn't cause any kind of controversy (despite literally being the same mechanic)

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

That AOE marker feels like trolling to me. I have no problems having to react to scripted boss mechanics (like Construct 7 in the Lighthouse) but please don't place markers when you have no chance of reacting to them. That's just evil.

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The AoE marker is ONLY present in Normal not in Savage. The point of the marker is to teach you what the hitbox is, it's not meant for you to be able to react. The reaction must come from reading the name of the attack and pre-positioning yourself before the attack fires off. If it weren't for the AoE marker, you would just die and not know where the safe spot is, especially with animations turned off.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

That is entirely the purpose of focus target and has been for 5 years. Why is it this one mechanic that people suddenly have a problem with reading and associating skills? We have been doing it for years.

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Yeah, it's purpose wasn't in question; but nice try though. And, I don't recall saying I had a hard time with the mechanic.

I think my reply was just stating that the proposed solution doesn't help healers as much as the other jobs, but there is Focus Target. However, the castbar on Focus Target is a lot smaller. So to make it as noticable, as someone mentioned, it would need to be significantly larger.

Oh and the issue people are having is with the delay of the AoE. A delay that is independant of lag. The move counts your placement a few milliseconds before the AoE disappears.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Yeah, it's purpose wasn't in question; but nice try though. And, I don't recall saying I had a hard time with the mechanic.

I think my reply was just stating that the proposed solution doesn't help healers as much as the other jobs, but there is Focus Target. However, the castbar on Focus Target is a lot smaller. So to make it as noticable, as someone mentioned, it would need to be significantly larger.

Oh and the issue people are having is with the delay of the AoE. A delay that is independant of lag. The move counts your placement a few milliseconds before the AoE disappears.

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So latency is the issue? I live in Europe and play on the NA servers, and still have plenty of time to move for the mechanic. I think what is happening is that people aren't anticipating the mechanic when they should be. Its a mechanic that does require thought, and you need to work out which way he is facing ahead of time. If it was a static left/right then nobody would have an issue, but the fact that he might turn catches people off guard. That has nothing to do with the name of the skill, and would still catch people out regardless of whether it is literally called left/right, in fact it would probably be worse that way because people would instinctively move left when in fact they need to move right because it is Omegas left, not the players.

All of that is just an observation though, there is ultimately no issue with the mechanic, and it is just one the players need to practice and get their heads around. Changing the moves name won't change anything, and nerfing the mechanic (which thankfully nobody has mentioned) would be a huge disservice to the encounter. All people can do is pay attention, and commit the mechanic to muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Khyra

左舷 is "sagen" / port
右舷 is "ugen" / starboard
左 is "hidari" / left
右 is "migi" / right

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I just had a thought regarding this, and the arguments that "it's easier to read in Japanese" and "larboard/starboard look too similar"...

Ignore the meaning of the words, and look at what is visually written.

左舷
右舷

The only visual difference in the Japanese words is the small "square" or "sideways H" element of the first symbol.

In terms of having to quickly identify which word is written, I think it's actually more fair (and possibly even a deliberate choice) to use English terms that have a similar proportion of identical letters.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

[...]
In terms of having to quickly identify which word is written, I think it's actually more fair (and possibly even a deliberate choice) to use English terms that have a similar proportion of identical letters.

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That argument only works for the English localization, though.
German and French just use the standard nautical terms that are in use nowadays, as far as I can tell. The odd one out is English using an antiquated word instead of port.

I prefer Larboard to be honest. L = left, not L = right.

Port and Starboard would mess me up.

From what I've seen and experienced, left or right wouldn't have done much to make it more avoidable with how fast it goes off and how confusing it can be to determine left/right from the target's perspective rather than your own. Keeping your camera on its butt did more to make it easier

I have never been on a ship in my life an airplain manytimes. I have no clue nautical term.

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

I assumed localization team chose Larboard because it rhymes better with Starboard.
As for other languages, as far I know in Japanese they used nautical terms for these attacks too (左舷 and　右舷), though it's much easier to tell because they included characters meaning 'left' and 'right' in the words.

That being said, I do find it funny when they said the reason they did not go with traditional Final Fantasy spell naming convention was because it'd be too confusing for some players, yet they keep using specific technical terms in fights which require you to learn on the spot, or sometime outright non-nonsensical localization eg. Argath's "Stop" or "Keep moving" moves in Rabanastre.

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Oh wow, I never put those 2 together before, what is with the double standard with that? I would LOVE to hear them explain that one. As I posted in a different thread it causes issues with people with dyslexia, they really need to stop with making mechanics like this. it is not "hard" by any means, all it is frustrating to those with issues like that.

Let's face facts here, they used Larboard specifically to trip players up. Not the first time you had to pay close attention to an attack name to know what to do, it won't be the last.

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The AoE marker is ONLY present in Normal not in Savage. The point of the marker is to teach you what the hitbox is, it's not meant for you to be able to react.

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Meh. I've noticed these kinds of "warning" markers becoming more and more proliferent ever since Stormblood hit and I'm not a fan of it at all. All it makes most players think is "how the hell was I supposed to react to that?!" Either show the marker, or don't.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I prefer Larboard to be honest. L = left, not L = right.

Port and Starboard would mess me up.

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This is how I feel. XD Had it been Port I'd have been tripping all over myself. L means avoid his left side and that is all I need to know.

I still get confused cause of the Fore and Aft and Port and Star in Temple of the fist.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Let's face facts here, they used Larboard specifically to trip players up. Not the first time you had to pay close attention to an attack name to know what to do, it won't be the last.


Meh. I've noticed these kinds of "warning" markers becoming more and more proliferent ever since Stormblood hit and I'm not a fan of it at all. All it makes most players think is "how the hell was I supposed to react to that?!" Either show the marker, or don't.

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But isn't the point supposed to be that? People should be wondering how to react to that. And after you get murdered by it, you're looking more closely at the cast bars.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

i'm not angry about it - I feel like I've learned something today. But these aren't just 'old-terms' they are literal dead phrases. I have never seen or come across it any literature, let alone spoken word.

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The term is still used often in fiction. Robert Jordan's, E. Feist, and Brandon Sanderson, iirc, all use the symmetry of larboard/starboard over starboard and... port.

It still seems the more prevalent choice in most of my world literature anthologies from back in university (I was an English major), even 1800s to modern.

At this point, I'd rather that they would have put yellow lightning flashing on one of its sides rather than the wording. Visual queues are much easier to interpret in 1.5 seconds vs text. I see the text, I go ok is starboard... that means right is bad... I need to move... <BANG>.

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But isn't the point supposed to be that?

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There isn't really any point in showing a marker that disappears too quickly to react to, other than making the player feel like the game is being unfair or that they are lagging.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

There isn't really any point in showing a marker that disappears too quickly to react to, other than making the player feel like the game is being unfair or that they are lagging.

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The marker appears so that you are aware of its exact size in future uses despite an animation that does not lend itself well to visibly distinct borders, not to make you react in time, and I appreciate even that much information far more than I feel cheated by escaping the lit zone in time only to still be hit -- XIV damage zones have never been consistent in their snapshotting. The majority follow suit, but there are many that do not as there are 'irregular' verbs in Spanish or whatnot: far too large a portion to consider mere outliers, they instead each become the part and parcel in the learning process.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

At this point, I'd rather that they would have put yellow lightning flashing on one of its sides rather than the wording. Visual queues are much easier to interpret in 1.5 seconds vs text. I see the text, I go ok is starboard... that means right is bad... I need to move... <BANG>.

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That's the point of this mechanic.
Same deal with Tsukuyomi Extreme.

I'm just gonna straight up call out English localization team since they are responsible. This translation is the cause of player confusion and frustration. This previous offender is in fact Tsukuyumi Ex's Dark and Bright blade. In Japaneses it's simply left slash and right slash. Simple and easy to tell. For English users we are forced to memorize it, but luckily, Bright has "right" in it and so confusion wasn't bad. This time, starboard and larboard are leaving people clueless. The fact that two words look so similar isn't helping me to memorize at all. This translation gets a big F from me.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

That's the point of this mechanic.
Same deal with Tsukuyomi Extreme.

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It's basically the same mechanic as Dark/Light Blade in that fight. The difference being that you actually can run out of the telegraphed attack on Normal there.

As for showing us the marker to learn the attack: the standard visual cue during the last fights for that was lighting up the floor dark blue during the attack so you can learn from that. Showing an AOE marker you can't react to feels like a raised middle finger to me, even if it's meant that way.

Larboard and Left both start with L, so an easy way to remember is that you essentially have Left (Larboard) and Not Left (Starboard), it's the same as Tsukuyomi's Bright Blade.

As non native English speaker this was a struggle. Friends pointed what the words meant cause I thought it was some giant cleave I was meant to go behind the boss ....needless to say by the time my brain could read and associate these words with, which one was left or right and which direction is the boss is facing, and I'd get hit and then another one right after lol it was just too fast. The flashing AoE you can't dodge is such a troll move. :c
I guess I need practice but can we just leave left/right in the name of such attacks in the future?

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

As non native English speaker this was a struggle.

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even if you are a native one, its a struggle. The mechanic happens so fast that if you are distracted in any way, you'll get nailed. You won't have time to process the correct direction and be moving. And you have to process two of them in a row, with the second one inverted. I'm generally good at the other mechanics in casual content, but this one just nails me unless the fight goes perfectly; no one dies, no one is out of place, i dont get targeted by the tether, etc.

Fun fact: it's a really, REALLY old term for the left side of a ship that they discontinued...for being confusing.

You can differientiate them on their first letter, I think that's fine. Starts with L, starts not with L, easy.

It's not a mess like the former german names for Niddhogs attack patterns, where the difference is in the middle of a really long name.

Flirrender Flügelschlag
Flirrender Schweifschlag
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Schweifschlag

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The marker appears so that you are aware of its exact size in future uses despite an animation that does not lend itself well to visibly distinct borders, not to make you react in time,

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And I'm saying it's gotten tiresome and it goes against what AoE markers were used for for the majority of the rest of the game. Again, I feel they should either properly show the indicator for the entirety of the charge-up period, or just not show it at all.

The term larboard is a sailing term which fell out of use 200 years ago or more.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

And I'm saying it's gotten tiresome and it goes against what AoE markers were used for for the majority of the rest of the game. Again, I feel they should either properly show the indicator for the entirety of the charge-up period, or just not show it at all.

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It's not at all unique in that regard, though. A good twentyith of raid mechanic AoE work in that manner.

I'll agree, though, that it would be less disconcerting if it just pulsed a single wave of the AoE indicator across the space, to make the area clear without appearing as a zone indicator. Of course, I'd also recommend the same for all AoEs that similarly snapshot before the zones' appearance.

Easiest way I've found to avoid either one is to stand right underneath Omega, this usually gives plenty of time to dodge it when the marker finally flashes up. There's a notch in the marker toward his center.

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It's not at all unique in that regard, though. A good twentyith of raid mechanic AoE work in that manner.

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Yeah, ever since Stormblood hit, which was my point if you'd been keeping up. It's definitely a rising trend.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Yeah, ever since Stormblood hit, which was my point if you'd been keeping up. It's definitely a rising trend.

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Coil 2 is my favorite Stormblood fight!

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

Easiest way I've found to avoid either one is to stand right underneath Omega, this usually gives plenty of time to dodge it when the marker finally flashes up. There's a notch in the marker toward his center.

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I wouldn't suggest standing underneath the boss the entire fight though, there is a mustard bomb tether that will be hard to see for the OT that is trying to pick it up and it might hit the raid.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

I wouldn't suggest standing underneath the boss the entire fight though, there is a mustard bomb tether that will be hard to see for the OT that is trying to pick it up and it might hit the raid.

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Only for Starboard/Larboard

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Coil 2 is my favorite Stormblood fight!

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I said it's becoming especially proliferent in Stormblood (to the point where it's particularly noticeable), not that it never ever happened prior to that.

Wisecracks only make you look clever if you're actually keeping up.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind it so much if his front and back ends didn't look so similar.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Honestly, I wouldn't mind it so much if his front and back ends didn't look so similar.

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This... this sooo much!