Quit Ruining The General Discussions

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Are you really shock at why this thread is coming up?
It is just matter of time until forum can no longer take this type of daily dramatic, hyperbole, and illogical ranting.

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And yet this thread is contributing to the problems that you listed.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I blame SE for not communicating tbh, if they responded more, people would not feel complied to be heard by making their own thread. There are threads here that even did the "mega thread" route and they get ignored too.

What did you hope to achieve by this? surely you saw your self this could been seen as "another negative" thread? You could spun this differently to try get people to do more "mega thread" type mentality to overall achieve the same point, doing it that way wouldn't sound so "people bashing"

but even with that we saw the "mega thread" thing not work so now what?

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Alright, I'll bite. Let's see where this goes.

You yourself have attacked a lot of posters - if the point of your complaints was to highlight a lot of the things that the devs are doing wrong, why feel the need to attack other posters who have disagreed with you? Even in the beginning of some of your threads, when things began civil, you started telling folks that either 'they don't understand', or 'they are white knighting', or 'they just don't want to see that they are wrong'. If you are so convinced that we should have better communication (which I do happen to agree with, we share the same point on that matter), why sabotage all the complaints you've been making by...insulting those who disagree with you? Even when I addressed you in another thread, even when I stated that while I disagreed with you, you had some valid points; everything that you insisted boiled down to 'my way or the highway'. As just an example, you want better communication, but why would the devs want to communicate if every complaint thread is chock full of insults back and forth? You had good intentions, I'll give you that - but it does no good if personal insults are what you resort to just to get your point across. It does no good if you attack folks who disagree even slightly with one point and agree with another - the way you've been carrying on, it's as if those who have split opinions on you are essentially in 100% disagreement with you, which sometimes is not the case at all.

Again, it's fine to complain. But complaints lose their value once you start insulting others, and then reminding them that you are unsubbed or unsubbing. Now, my response here was specific to you. The start of the thread was not. Keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I'm getting tired of people fixating on one word in my post and not reading them.

My point was that we would end up with "approved" negative topics. People would be just as negative about things like "how bad players suck in savage pugs" or in duty finder in general, because it's a topic that apparently people can be negative in one way and its ok, because we all know how bad baddies are. A good example in the past were topics on royal menagerie; if you even suggested it might be hard for a story fight, watch the wagons circle around and watch people get jumped on no matter how civil they were.

So if we are telling people to stop being negative and bringing the forums down, i want it all across the board. I don't want to hear your grumbling about the playerbase or how hard savage is because of all the pugs. Get rid of the "tales from duty finder thread," that's as negative as anything out there because it constantly fosters the idea this playerbase sucks and can't even do simple things.

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You are tired of people fixating on 'one word', but that's exactly what you did with your last couple responses. And you missed the point. Yes, I have complained before...but I didn't go around reposting it or variations of it multiple times in a short timeframe (which in this case is mere days). At the worst, I waited a good few weeks before starting either on another subject or a related subject. I didn't flood the front page with comments about related things - I barely left my own thread to engage others in discussions. You fixated on a few points and missed the rest of what I have been saying. But, I'm glad you brought up the Tales from the Duty Finder. See, the thing about the duty finder thread is...it's a vent thread that is consolidated. You don't see vent after vent after vent within a few days of how badly people did in an instance. The few times people do post outside of that thread, they are usually new to these forums. Do I expect or want that to happen with everything else? No...that's not what I'm suggesting. People are rightfully angry - it's the repeated threads popping up one after another in such a short succession that I feel that it's become overwhelmingly negative in GD. As far as savage pugs, the player base, and all that other stuff is concerned, that's something for another time, likely by somebody else.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

<Forum Goodness>

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*/hug* @ Kaiva
Love your new sig picture. :)

So much black-and-white on these forums (and all forums on the internet, I'm aware. I've seen flame wars you wouldn't believe on knitting forums.) On both sides. If you say anything good about SE, you're a "white knight". If you suggest ways for people to improve themselves (and no, I'm not talking about 'git gud', I've seen very thorough and helpful discussions on here) you're an "elitist". If you ask for people to put some thought into their complaints and present them in an organized manner, you're "telling them not to post". If you try to point out unfair or bad aspects of a topic, event, item, or element, you're "nothing but a naysayer". Are there white knights here? Yes. Are there elitists on here? Yes. Are there folks who want to censor discussions they don't like? Yes. Are there constant naysayers on here? Yes. Their existence, however, does not then necessitate that every person who posts falls into one of those categories.

While I may not agree with some of the more extreme verbiage in some of the posts on here, I think the biggest point that I agree with - and that most people agreeing with this thread have stated - is not that they want complainers to "shut up" or any topics to be taboo. We just want moderation and consideration. Insulting people who disagree with you isn't professional or mature. Using terms like "white knight" and "elitist" with every other word sounds a lot like you're just attempting to shut up people you don't agree with. Flooding the forums with the same complaint isn't productive - it's already been noted that length of thread is what gets noticed, not volume of threads. By all means, express your discontent. I've expressed mine more than once. But if people are expressing it to actually see changes made, then why are they so against doing it in a way that has a better chance of being acknowledged?

You want proof, look at the last few months of forum posts. The three I can think of offhand that got moderator posts are: 1) Ungarmax, 2) Glamour dresser retrieval, 3) Eureka. 1) was addressed because it was what the devs considered a game-breaking bug, and they wanted to stem the rumours before they got too bad. Damage control. 2) was addressed because it was a request for factual information. 3) was addressed because the thread jumped up to almost a hundred pages in just a day or two. It was overwhelming. And on the same vein, even though I don't think it was recent, the "Guys' cool glamour" thread got a response when it was super-long, too. They're not going to jump in on complaint threads because the questions asked are usually rhetorical, or if they are actual requests for information, they're answers that even the devs wouldn't have (what's the long-term goal for the game, are we going to go free-to-play, how dare you do this thing?) And if they're not actually reading each thread, then seeing them pop up, go for 5-15 pages, then die seems more like they're not really that important.

I don't want people to stop complaining. I don't want this forum to be an echo chamber. I want this forum to be a place where people can discuss topics, and where concerns can actually be filtered and addressed. But it's hard to have discussions when people are spamming the same thing over and over again (where do you take the discussion? Which of the 30 different threads?) or angrily typing insults and refusing to actually engage in a discussion. ("O.o You must be insane for thinking such a thing." isn't really good for continuing conversations, you know?)

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

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At least I make an effort to understand those last two points. If I don't respond, I generally agree or don't contest the rest of them because of space issues.

and ok, let's just have megathreads. Let's limit comments. The next thing you will do, and I guarantee, is complain at how dead the general forum is becoming. Yes, people are negative, but this is because the game really isnt giving us anything to be positive about at the moment, and usually positive things limit or drive out negative. If we are getting these threads, a lot of it has to do with how unsatisfying things like Eureka has been, or that the only news is what's new on the cash shop or that we are getting a new sub-optional app. You can't just say "let's not be negative" or limit it, because then we end up like the pvp forum, silent.

Personally, posting multiple threads on different angles of the same topic always comes across as a kid throwing a tantrum. "One thread didn't get their attention, so I'll make more!" Honestly it just kills the credibility of the individual for me.

You can point your finger at how "horrible" things are and how much that upsets you, how no one listened to that first thread, how "darn it!" *fist into palm* something must be done!", but that doesn't somehow absolve the harm you do to your own credibility when you spam threads on a single topic. If no one cared the first time, yelling louder isn't going to change that the next time.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

So, 8 pages about complaining about others complaining?

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This topic is waaaaaaaaaaay too long. Couldn't we have kept a TL;DR version down to less than a page? sigh, reading through the forums takes time, and now I'm bored. Can we just make the forums an EMOJI or MEME ONLY template? That would be much more entertaining than the OP's (and other's whining and complaining about EVERYTHING) topics. Honestly, at the end of the day, people will think what they want to think, write what they want to write, and complain about whatever else they want. Like the game, the forum is OPTIONAL. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WRITE OR READ ANYTHING! The fix? Write a POSITIVE thread. :)

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Originally Posted by aesteval

We are on the forum for a game. Users have a right to provide feedback to devs. End. Of. Discussion. The forums ARE the most direct way to leave feedback.

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Which you are right in that aspect and that's fine. But, did it ever occur to the people having a problem with SE that we do have a "Website Feedback & Suggestions" sub thread? Did anyone know that it existed at all? Wouldn't it make more sense to voice your complaints there where it's easier for the moderators to find it and then possibly send it off towards the director/developers instead of 10 different General Discussion topics all talking about the same thing that all get bumped in and off the front page like crazy daily sporadically? I want to also add that you've cherry picked one comment from my entire paragraph just to suit your own narrative for that stance when I elaborated much more than just that one set of lines you seemed to want to use. I never said that they couldn't complain on the forums, just that 10 different topics is a little much for any moderator to shift through.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

They didn't really state that those people couldn't complain honestly, just that the constant bandwagoning effect is getting a little old which I think we can all agree on here. If you're unhappy with a company and/or its products, then leaving and letting the company directly know why you're leaving is the best course of action that you can take, instead of sitting there and making 100 forum posts over the course of a week voicing the same complaint over and over in various different ways acting as if the reps will actually bother to look through a Sea of Threads for your feedback.

Being a moderator on any kind of public forum is more or less a voluntary position that pays nothing and rewards you with nothing and quite possibly the most mindless and numbing thing to do. No moderator is going to want to shift through 10 different threads all voicing the same complaints being spoken in several different ways and tones...nor want to compile all of that information from 10 different threads and put it together into one cohesive feedback report to the director/developers.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

"Website Feedback and Suggestions" sounds like it's asking for feedback and suggestions for the website and not the game. Additionally, feedback at times can make valuable use of back and forth discussion. If General Discussions is the most active area, seems like it would be the place to bring something up. If something is misposted, we do have moderators who, as we have seen, move topics to appropriate areas.

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Edit: I've looked in that thread, you have people suggesting things about chocobo barding, the mogstation, PvP queue and rankings, etc. It is most certainly not just for the website, but also for the game. All kinds of stuff really. And since none of those topics were moved by the moderators, clearly, they belong there.

Who on earth puts a posting limit on a forum? Seriously, SE? No other forum does this and it's so annoying when you're trying to have a discussion with people and you're cockblocked by an archaic forum design. >_<;

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Which you are right in that aspect and that's fine. But, did it ever occur to the people having a problem with SE that we do have a "Website Feedback & Suggestions" sub thread? Did anyone know that it existed at all? Wouldn't it make more sense to voice your complaints there where it's easier for the moderators to find it and then possibly send it off towards the director/developers instead of 10 different General Discussion topics all talking about the same thing that all get bumped in and off the front page like crazy daily sporadically?

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"Website Feedback and Suggestions" sounds like it's asking for feedback and suggestions for the website and not the game. Additionally, feedback at times can make valuable use of back and forth discussion. If General Discussions is the most active area, seems like it would be the place to bring something up. If something is misposted, we do have moderators who, as we have seen, move topics to appropriate areas.

Hello I would like to be considered for the title of forum god. I like long walks on in the mist, the Pa paya song on repeat, and playing hide and seek with my namazu minion. Thank you for your consideration.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Alright, I'll bite. Let's see where this goes.

You yourself have attacked a lot of posters

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I have not. I only defended my self after being attacked by someone in question. How come you do not say this at NephthysVasudan? or have you have that person confused with me? So you expect me to be insulted over and over again and not say anything? Why do you think it is ok for people to insult me and not me to say anything? or the lack of forum moderation?

This is my new favorite thread. Finally some actual adults posting.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I have not. I only defended my self after being attacked by someone in question. How come you do not say this at NephthysVasudan? or have you have that person confused with me? So you expect me to be insulted over and over again and not say anything? Why do you think it is ok for people to insult me and not me to say anything? or the lack of forum moderation?

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Because unlike you...I don't make stuff up and then make it a mountain of trouble on a string.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Because unlike you...I don't make stuff up and then make it a mountain of trouble on a string.

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And your posts are generally more pleasant to read.

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Originally Posted by Pastahnak

Hello I would like to be considered for the title of forum god. I like long walks on in the mist, the Pa paya song on repeat, and playing hide and seek with my namazu minion. Thank you for your consideration.

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If you'll appoint me High Priestess of the Healer subforum, I'll support your application for Forum God.

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Originally Posted by Soupa

And your posts are generally more pleasant to read.

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I could do a better job honestly...but thank you.

<3

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Originally Posted by Tridus

If you'll appoint me High Priestess of the Healer subforum, I'll support your application for Forum God.

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I second this. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Tridus

If you'll appoint me High Priestess of the Healer subforum, I'll support your application for Forum God.

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of course! :D just dont tell anyone these are make believe titles and they might buy it

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Originally Posted by Pastahnak

Hello I would like to be considered for the title of forum god. I like long walks on in the mist, the Pa paya song on repeat, and playing hide and seek with my namazu minion. Thank you for your consideration.

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Only if you wear the Male Bunny outfit.

You guys seriously need to learn the fine art of "not clicking threads you don't want to read", the forums are only as negative as you decided to perceive them.

If you want to drop your two cents in a thread you disagree with, fine, but looking at OP's history he's actively participating and perpetuating those threads, seriously just walk away and don't comment on negative threads, you don't have to keep arguing or trying to have the last word.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I have not. I only defended my self after being attacked by someone in question. How come you do not say this at NephthysVasudan? or have you have that person confused with me? So you expect me to be insulted over and over again and not say anything? Why do you think it is ok for people to insult me and not me to say anything? or the lack of forum moderation?

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Oooo...this was FUN! Please explain where this hostility came from then? NOTHING in that thread(from the below quote) was directed straight at you. I was having a conversation based on the screenshots you shared in there from the live letter. Yet, what's this? Hostility towards me? And as the above(bolded, italics, and underlined for your convenience), supposedly I would have attacked you first. I will wait while you provide your sources of where I attacked you prior to the point below.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Are you BLIND??!?!?!

https://i.gyazo.com/28c4f176c861d610...23df6514cd.png

moogle COINS, the app IRL money currency.
https://gyazo.com/0d39b2105bff95ad3ee520582743d684

So with moogle COINS (the thing that is not the log in bonus currency) lets you list/ price change/ and buy off the MB

Moogle NUT, the log in bonus only lets you BUY something off the mb:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...4_04.26.40.png
That means in order to price change and to sell something, it is only available with the transaction currency and the only reason it is listed for "free" (my guessing anyway) is because you can buy the currency without the sub.

This app is P2W, no matter the how small the impact it makes to "PvE" or "PvE" it is still P2W, you are paying IRL money for an advantage over someone that does not.

stop nitpicking what "win" means. It is not speculation, right there on the damn slides.



yup, it was largely ignored because it is not a big deal (helps that no one fully exploit it to my knowledge)now you are enabling FULL market control, because of the sheer number of retainers and quick access to price changes with this P2W app. It is the app though that crossed the line and made it worth noting, stop with increasing p2w elements.

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PS: I always cover my ass when looking up sources, or going to someone with problems. Knowing your stuff is winning the battle.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

Only if you wear the Male Bunny outfit.

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wat else would a forum god wear?

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Originally Posted by alimdia

You guys seriously need to learn the fine art of "not clicking threads you don't want to read", the forums are only as negative as you decided to perceive them.

If you want to drop your two cents in a thread you disagree with, fine, but looking at OP's history he's actively participating and perpetuating those threads, seriously just walk away and don't comment on negative threads, you don't have to keep arguing or trying to have the last word.

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https://gph.is/1WgF44S

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Originally Posted by alimdia

If you want to drop your two cents in a thread you disagree with, fine, but looking at OP's history he's actively participating and perpetuating those threads, seriously just walk away and don't comment on negative threads, you don't have to keep arguing or trying to have the last word.

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Thats what makes this thread so hilarious, its just a complainer complaining about complainers complaining in other complaint threads trying to get the last word in.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Oooo...this was FUN! Please explain where this hostility came from then? NOTHING in that thread(from the below quote) was directed straight at you. I was having a conversation based on the screenshots you shared in there from the live letter. Yet, what's this? Hostility towards me? And as the above(bolded, italics, and underlined for your convenience), supposedly I would have attacked you first. I will wait while you provide your sources of where I attacked you prior to the point below.

PS: I always cover my ass when looking up sources, or going to someone with problems. Knowing your stuff is winning the battle.

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Don't hold your breath I've been waiting for some responses with sources a few weeks now myself... chances are they will just go to a different thread or start a new one.

I love you all. Hugs for everyone!

But yeah, some threads are getting a bit hostile in ways of personal attacks. Remember .. attack the argument, not the person making the argument.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Don't hold your breath I've been waiting for some responses with sources a few weeks now myself... chances are they will just go to a different thread or start a new one.

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Oh, I know. But I love calling people out on their BS more than I love steak and potatoes(and I mean I LOVE a good steak and baked potato enough to kill someone who tries to deny me having that for dinner)

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Oh, I know. But I love calling people out on their BS more than I love steak and potatoes(and I mean I LOVE a good steak and baked potato enough to kill someone who tries to deny me having that for dinner)

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Lol Sooo true.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Thats what makes this thread so hilarious, its just a complainer complaining about complainers complaining in other complaint threads trying to get the last word in.

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That's not what I see. I repeatedly see "This message is hidden because" user "is on your ignore list."

XD

No regrets. These threads help to highlight who to add.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

That's not what I see. I repeatedly see "This message is hidden because" user "is on your ignore list."

XD

No regrets. These threads help to highlight who to add.

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zen mode: achieved

This is the general forum that talks about anything about the game. Its not about only x negative threads allowed forum. Also a lot of these big negatives threads do have quite some likes so it does speak to at least some people. Honestly I just read through the front pages and click on those threads that interest me and either post in it or dont. I am not forced to read every single thread and nobody else is either.

Quite some of those threads also stayed alive much longer by people troll posting in it or attacking others. So some of those that dislike the negative threads are keeping them alive just by posting in it. We also had some pure troll threads as an answer to those negative ones which is not much better.

If the mods would find it too much they would simply combine threads or delete them/close them. So it seems that its still fine.

Edit: It has gotten heaten on both sides but honestly I am quite shocked by some posters (and there are some that are going on about complainers) that went into a thread a certain person made and instead of either ignoring it or at least posting on topic they just went on an insult the person directly...even though these threads may have had some very good points..there are people that say that they dont hold a grudge but go out of their way to celebrate that someone wont be able to post anymore..An eye for an eye is never a great approach and just because someone was a bit rude in some topics does not give someone else the right to go into another topic of that person and just insult them..that is just the same kind of rudeness that you dislike from the other side.

Personal attacks should stay out of discussion but people should be allowed to be negative about stuff..I am quite negative because the way its going right now just is something I truly dislike. I still have enough stuff ingame that I like otherwise I would not be there and I am also discussing lore and even positive points or give ideas but I will be way more vocal if its something that is bad in my view...and Yoshida himself stated that critisism is worth much more than a compliment..do we need countless of threads of the same kind of topic? No probably not. Does it hurt the forum? No not really. A lot of these countless negative threads to have a higher page count and since we dont have a limit of threads allowed in this forum a new thread wont hurt us as the community.

If that many people are complaining, perhaps there is a problem. It just may not be a problem for you.

Just some food for thoughts. Belgium has ruled lootboxes as gambling and warned some games about changing them or face some consequences. Now It's just a nation, but others might follow
What ppl think is that ESRB was created as a way to gamindustri to self regulate itself and avoid governments butting in, however by ignoring the problems that companies were intruding they essentially forced governments hands and most are not sure that it's a good thing, since some games will simply die even if their service was a fair one.

Also again I want to point out this is not against complaining

edit daily limit or w/e(I think it's hour based tbh ayway): My point is dont' ask for higher powers to decide what's good and what's bad

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Just some food for thoughts. Belgium has ruled lootboxes as gambling and warned some games about changing them or face some consequences. Now It's just a nation, but others might follow
What ppl think is that ESRB was created as a way to gamindustri to self regulate itself and avoid governments butting in, however by ignoring the problems that companies were intruding they essentially forced governments hands and most are not sure that it's a good thing, since some games will simply die even if their service was a fair one.

Also again I want to point out this is not against complaining

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Except there isn't a loot box that you can buy in this game. The only ones you get(unless I am missing one) are from Palace of the Dead(Accursed Hoard), Diadem(Lock Boxes) and from Eureka(Lock Boxes again). So while it may be considered gambling, the only thing that is being spent is your time and not your money.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Just some food for thoughts. Belgium has ruled lootboxes as gambling and warned some games about changing them or face some consequences.

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Nothing SE sells for real money (and the lootbox issue is with real money, not random boxes found in games) is a lootbox or random in any way. That law has nothing to do with games selling add-ons, or even (beyond what SE does) battle-advantage boosts. "+150% damage for 5h" boost would not violate this, either. I think it's a great step forward but isn't going to affect XIV in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

by ignoring the problems that companies were intruding they essentially forced governments hands and most are not sure that it's a good thing, since some games will simply die even if their service was a fair one.

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Gambling is what seems to be the issue various governments are having. Using Overwatch one of their examples, Belgium officials said they're in violation entirely because you pay for a chance at winning X instead of outright buying X. Expansions/DLC aren’t in the crosshairs (at least, not here in the US or Belgium) so any company/game that doesn’t involve loot boxes should be fine. If anything, we're set to get more fragmented stories (a la ffxv or me3) with dlc gates to get the full story once more countries get on top of loot box regulation.

That all said, none of that really effects us here at all cause XIV has no paid loot boxes.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I have not. I only defended my self after being attacked by someone in question.

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I just want to make one thing clear from reading so many of your posts. There are people on this forum that have literally referenced sources against incorrect statements which you have posted, without insulting you at all. Yet, you have thrown insults right at them, when all they did was correct you and provide you with creditable source material.

If you consider debate with counterarguments presented with source material with no insults by the poster "insulting". Then there is a communication issue with you and you need to work on it.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

I just want to make one thing clear from reading so many of your posts. There are people on this forum that have literally referenced sources against incorrect statements which you have posted, without insulting you at all. Yet, you have thrown insults right at them, when all they did was correct you and provide you with creditable source material.

If you consider debate with counterarguments presented with source material with no insults by the poster "insulting". Then there is a communication issue with you and you need to work on it.

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I can agree that some of her posts are a bit rude. White knights and stuff like that should not be part of a discussion. BUT the other side has reacted on quite a lot of post way too harsh too. There were enough topics that made sense and had points in the OP and yet some people just posted how its that user again and nothing on topic. Some celebrated that she will be gone from the forums in a thread that was important because its an issue right now. And a couple of posters "from the other side" are also often rude to those that are not of their opinion and if they are asked for evidence they are suddenly quiet.

What do I want to say with that? Both sides did not behave for the best. That does not make the threads themselves bad. Black list a person you truly somehow dislike and/or simply ignore those threads if you think that they are not worth it. Going into them and insulting the person does not make for a good case.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

If that many people are complaining, perhaps there is a problem. It just may not be a problem for you.

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If we go by that logic of who upvoted the first post though, that's only 60 people. Even then that's not a lot of people complaining cause a majority of people who see mog station see it as what it is, a place for extra glamour and support for the game. They choose not to invest in it and they don't let it get to them.

The vocal minority that tends to complain about it are the ones who want X gear but don't want to spend the money to get it, so they complain it hopes of it getting cheaper for them.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I have not. I only defended my self after being attacked by someone in question. How come you do not say this at NephthysVasudan? or have you have that person confused with me? So you expect me to be insulted over and over again and not say anything? Why do you think it is ok for people to insult me and not me to say anything? or the lack of forum moderation?

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While I have had my disagreements with Nephthys in the past.....

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Because unlike you...I don't make stuff up and then make it a mountain of trouble on a string.

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They have a point.

Refraining from ad hominem (like calling someone an SE apologist for just losing patience with your lack of coherent arguments, for example) and hyperbole generally help. As well as not arguing with every poster on the forums who just happen to disagree with you on X topic.