Please change the requirements to become mentor

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

While the idea may sound good in practice it would be abused by people who dont want to learn or toxic players running on alts and you'd have genuine hard working mentors getting punished.

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Isn't the basically the same reasoning behind why we don't have a down vote/dislike button here on the forums?

I completely agree about there likely being a lot of hard working mentors, who actually go above and beyond what is expected of one(teach people when you know what you're doing type of situation), being punished due to people who had one bad experience with a mentor and see all others as scum that need to be purged(just one situation)

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

You were doing so well until you had to go an insult and generalize people you've never met.

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Thanks for the pointless comment just for arguments sake.If you're going to comment atleast try and be productive.Nowhere was i victimising all mentors.There are a lot of bad ones around.Its not a witch hunt but changes need to be made to weed out all the bad ones for the sake of new players having a better experience and not learning bad habits off mentors towards helping others down the line when the new players is in the mentors position a year down the line.
We were all new players once and id like to think that we dont want to encourage treating them like trash.

The problem with our current Mentor status is that there's too much incentive put on it. Many, many players only unlock this status to work toward the rare mount and w/e else.

If you want to be a Mentor, you don't even need this status icon...because that's all it is for many, a "status". Like getting promoted in a company, "Oooh, I'm now an "Executive" [insert job]!", the same can be reflected in the Mentor status. And if we get right down to simple aesthetics...some people just like the crown icon. But most people I'd wager, just want to unlock the roulette. So there's very few, but they exist, genuine Mentors in the sense of they unlocked this status so they could be recognized by others that they are willing to be asked questions and help explain things etc.

I have never talked to the NPC to begin the "Mentorship". Yet I give out advice if someone asks or is confused about something, what more do you need? Even myself, I know I'd only unlock this Mentor status to unlock the roulette. Perhaps everyone that complains about this "Mentor status" should ask themselves, why do you care? I'm sure many want the "Crown" to mean more, but why? Do you not already act as a Mentor? It's all silly vanity in the end. It is, what it is. Just like people in charge of companies can be awful at it, so it goes with Mentors.

My biggest 'benefit' to having mentor status, is that I have accesds to novice network.

That allows me to help newbies without having to go out of my way to seek them out.
I see questions and I answer them to the best of my ability.


Technically, I wouldn't even qualify for mentor status in stormblood yet if I hadn't been grandfathered in when stormblood hit.
I was a mentor in heavensward and am still one even though the requirements have changed.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I think it’s more so the mentors that just want the shinies and not actually teach.

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Mentors don't have to teach anything. Mentor system has been out to help newbs with the basic questions about the game, and invite them to the novice network. That's all.

Mentors are not teachers, are not know-it-all, are not the 99th DPS percentile of any job. It is you guys that are trying to give mentors a role they don't have and get disappointed they don't meet the requirements you have setup in your own mind.

the "best" mentor i saw lately was a paladin at susano ex.

he had zero idea what a tank have to do in this game.

he didnt collected the orbs.
never tryed to swap with the other tank.
not even used shield OR sword oath. so when the other tank died cuz no swap he had no chance to take it. we told him to activate one of them but the only reaction was. "first time dont be salty" at the groupchat.
that was the moment i think. plz god let someone come into my door and shoot me. :mad:

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Originally Posted by EmmaVirgin

the "best" mentor i saw lately was a paladin at susano ex.

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Susano Ex is currently not in the Mentor roulette so it's ok for even Mentors to mess that up :)

All you need to get scrubs off the mentor system is to change the crown into a watering can. It has been suggested years ago and has been requested as long as the mentor system has been up.

Change the icon and pull the roulette away from it. Leave it so only people who want to be helpful are in there. You'll still have people filling queues, just not tarnishing the reputation of what's by and large a well meaning system.

Requirements are fine. Please end thread thanks.

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Originally Posted by QueenSophie

Requirements are fine. Please end thread thanks.

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Requirements are currently out of date which is a major problem. SE should at least raise the requirements to lvl 70 to keep up to date with the recent expac, can't see how someone can be a mentor yet only just start SB and have little idea about some mechs, it's crazy.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Susano Ex is currently not in the Mentor roulette so it's ok for even Mentors to mess that up :)

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the point is not that he was new and had no clue about the mechanics. the point is that a mentor not even used one of the 2 oath. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by EmmaVirgin

the point is not that he was new and had no clue about the mechanics. the point is that a mentor not even used one of the 2 oath. :rolleyes:

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Yeah that was a bit of a train-wreck. Sadly the playerbase expecting Mentors to know what they're doing has little to do with the requirements as they currently are *sigh*

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Mentors don't have to teach anything. Mentor system has been out to help newbs with the basic questions about the game, and invite them to the novice network. That's all.

Mentors are not teachers, are not know-it-all, are not the 99th DPS percentile of any job. It is you guys that are trying to give mentors a role they don't have and get disappointed they don't meet the requirements you have setup in your own mind.

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This, so much. The whole conversation about "the mentor will be the worst in your party" is a perfect example of confirmation bias--because mentors are more noticeable, people notice their mistakes far more often, and call them out for mistakes that 99.9% of the rest of the player base would be allowed to get away with no problem. Rude player? Definitely only happened because they were a mentor, rawrrr! Mentors knowing their jobs is important, obviously, and I have indeed seen asshole-ish mentors who don't deserve the title, but people are people. Toxic players are going to be toxic with or without a crown. The degree of perfection the player base expects from mentors as a whole is absolutely ridiculous. Not every mentor will have mastered EVERY job. Not every mentor will be perfect 110% of the time; sometimes people get tired and play badly regardless of what icons they have on... There are tons of reasons mentors should not be held to the standards people are suggesting here.

Of course, the biggest joke of this whole thread is the idea that random PUGs actually want advice. Trust me, as someone who has had mentor status since the day the mentor system launched, the number of times I have tried (very politely) to give advice and then been completely ignored (at best), told "you don't pay my sub," or just been flat out attacked for trying to offer help is enormous. The percentage of people in roulettes who will actually stop and listen to your suggestions is extremely small compared to the number of people who will just flat out ignore you or get offended even if you're speaking as politely as possible. At this point, I rarely try to offer unsolicited advice at all because random people in duty finder don't want to hear they're doing something wrong; in fact, the more advice a person needs, the more likely they are to be someone who doesn't listen...

If we claim that adding "Did this mentor help you or not?" as a rating system for mentors is okay, there should absolutely be a "Was the rest of the party willing to listen to any advice at all?" rating system for non-mentor players. :////

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Mentors don't have to teach anything. Mentor system has been out to help newbs with the basic questions about the game, and invite them to the novice network. That's all.

Mentors are not teachers, are not know-it-all, are not the 99th DPS percentile of any job. It is you guys that are trying to give mentors a role they don't have and get disappointed they don't meet the requirements you have setup in your own mind.

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So you're telling us you need 300 commendations, 1000 dungeons/raid/trial and 1 dps 1 tank and 1 healer at max level just to be able to guide a sprout into limsa or to invite a sprout into a novice network?
I doubt the system and the requirement were meant for mentor to be completely useless.

This is an issue yes, but your suggested fix will not address this issue. The only way I can think of if have GMS revoke the status if enough VALID complaints are made but even that has flaws and it can be debated if the effect is worth the time and effort being invested into the change.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

So you're telling us you need 300 commendations, 1000 dungeons/raid/trial and 1 dps 1 tank and 1 healer at max level just to be able to guide a sprout into limsa or to invite a sprout into a novice network?

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More likely, they are more to let you earn the shinies at the end of the mentor roulette grinding.

I think the mentor system is bad because if I wanted to be a mentor I could be a mentor and that'd be a horrible, horrible thing to do to players.

Joking aside, I think the mentor system needs more vetting. I don't really think there is an automated way to make it better. Also it's not a great idea to give rewards to mentors because then it encourages people who aren't in it for the players to become a mentor for the reward.

Have to admit, the crafting Mentor requirements are well out of date.

Basically, you scrape a crafter/gatherer to 60 with leve's, spam gather collectibles at 1 collectibility with no rotation, craft collectibles at 1 collectiblity with dirt cheap m'naago materials, then you can stick a battle or pvp mentor crown over your head. Could do with a bit of updating.

they should implement a system like the learning cd-rom's for the german drivin license.
a short simulated video that frezzes at the very moment when a mechanic pops up and then you have to choice one or multiple right answers in a few seconds.

for example if you have no clue what im talkin about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SSXN3ye2BA

this should be a mentor roulette unlockquest every week.
just an idea.

I think a good start is requiring mentor status candidates to have a clear on the fourth tier of Savage when that content is relevant. If you're in an odd-numbered patch, then it rolls over to Ultimate or you wait until the next even-numbered patch to clear fourth tier of Savage again.

It's hard to filter out bad people, but they could start with trying to filter out bad players instead of just having it require a time-based grind. There's far too many people who have played since forever but don't know how to play a single job.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I think a good start is requiring mentor status candidates to have a clear on the fourth tier of Savage when that content is relevant.

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Mentoring and being "gud" are different things. It is as you asking for the Usain Bolt's trainer to be a world record holder himself.

And frankly, the "gud" people I often see in duties, are the least prepared for teaching anything: no patience and ragequit/dramathrow at first mistake are their most common traits.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I think a good start is requiring mentor status candidates to have a clear on the fourth tier of Savage when that content is relevant.

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That sort of content isn't even in the Mentor roulette, which means Mentors are not expected to know it or having even cleared it. Even expansions later, no Savage content (including the 'regular' Coils) have made it into the Mentor roulette. And if a sprout wants to tackle that sort of content, either they know what they're doing and therefore need no help from a Mentor because we're not expected to ever have set foot in that content; or they don't know the first thing about their job, in which case a lone hour inside a Savage instance with 6 other people who want to clear isn't the place to teach them their basic rotation.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

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No on both accounts, as clearing savage content doesn't make you a good mentor, willing to help players regardless of you clearing savage is. I don't even know why you mentioned ultimate, that's for the people that want the hardest challenge in the game and it still doesn't make you a good mentor.

Being a bad player and a bad person are 2 different things, anyone can be a good player if they try and work at it, not everyone wants to be a good person. Take away the rewards and crown and you would see a lot less bad mentors.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

No on both accounts, as clearing savage content doesn't make you a good mentor, willing to help players regardless of you clearing savage is. I don't even know why you mentioned ultimate, that's for the people that want the hardest challenge in the game and it still doesn't make you a good mentor.

Being a bad player and a bad person are 2 different things, anyone can be a good player if they try and work at it, not everyone wants to be a good person. Take away the rewards and crown and you would see a lot less bad mentors.

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I agree. Being able to teach is a separate skill, as it has nothing to do with how much you know about the game.

Though we surely need a "merit" system, where people wearing their shiny crowns would get a rating based on how they performed their role as a mentor. Either that, or you can filter the "mentors" from the mentors by replacing the crown for something less shiny. Like some people suggested, a watering can would be ideal.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I think a good start is requiring mentor status candidates to have a clear on the fourth tier of Savage when that content is relevant. If you're in an odd-numbered patch, then it rolls over to Ultimate or you wait until the next even-numbered patch to clear fourth tier of Savage again.

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I've seen my share of people with gear from savage content that have absolutely no idea what they're doing. My favorite was the healer who had multiple clears of a12s and yet she had no idea that spamming cure 2 on a tank with near full hp isn't a good thing to do.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

And frankly, the "gud" people I often see in duties, are the least prepared for teaching anything: no patience and ragequit/dramathrow at first mistake are their most common traits.

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I think it's interesting how peoples' definitions can vary so much, because those "gud" people you often see sound nothing like the good people I see.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

Though we surely need a "merit" system, where people wearing their shiny crowns would get a rating based on how they performed their role as a mentor.

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How would you set up a rating system for that? In my experience, unsolicited advice is not welcome and most sprouts I've come across in df don't ask questions.

Like I said in another thread, I think people are expecting too much from mentors considering the requirements it takes to be one.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

I'm not sure what people are expecting; as long as you know how to log into the game, use df, and switch classes you can pretty much be a mentor.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I think a good start is requiring mentor status candidates to have a clear on the fourth tier of Savage when that content is relevant. If you're in an odd-numbered patch, then it rolls over to Ultimate or you wait until the next even-numbered patch to clear fourth tier of Savage again.

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So because I haven't killed God-Kefka, then in your eyes, I'm not capable of teaching a BLM newbie the basics of their rotation?

That's just an example of what a Mentor is expected of, helping players learn in places they could be struggling in. I have no idea what God-Kefka and Final Steps of Faith have in common that makes it so I can't mentor someone in Final Steps of Faith.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

I agree. Being able to teach is a separate skill, as it has nothing to do with how much you know about the game.

Though we surely need a "merit" system, where people wearing their shiny crowns would get a rating based on how they performed their role as a mentor. Either that, or you can filter the "mentors" from the mentors by replacing the crown for something less shiny. Like some people suggested, a watering can would be ideal.

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^ This. Being a good mentor is not about clearing savage, unless you're trying to mentor someone *in savage*, which is not what the system is for. You do need to know what you're talking about to mentor someone through something, but the desire to teach and the personal communication skills to do it are what really matter.

It should be about the people that want to mentor, rather than people who want rewards.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

So because I haven't killed God-Kefka, then in your eyes, I'm not capable of teaching a BLM newbie the basics of their rotation?

That's just an example of what a Mentor is expected of, helping players learn in places they could be struggling in. I have no idea what God-Kefka and Final Steps of Faith have in common that makes it so I can't mentor someone in Final Steps of Faith.

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When the alternative is a grind that asks no competence at all (just time)? Sure, by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

No on both accounts, as clearing savage content doesn't make you a good mentor, willing to help players regardless of you clearing savage is. I don't even know why you mentioned ultimate, that's for the people that want the hardest challenge in the game and it still doesn't make you a good mentor.

Being a bad player and a bad person are 2 different things, anyone can be a good player if they try and work at it, not everyone wants to be a good person. Take away the rewards and crown and you would see a lot less bad mentors.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Mentoring and being "gud" are different things. It is as you asking for the Usain Bolt's trainer to be a world record holder himself.

And frankly, the "gud" people I often see in duties, are the least prepared for teaching anything: no patience and ragequit/dramathrow at first mistake are their most common traits.

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You can't filter out bad people. You can filter out poor players though.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

I've seen my share of people with gear from savage content that have absolutely no idea what they're doing. My favorite was the healer who had multiple clears of a12s and yet she had no idea that spamming cure 2 on a tank with near full hp isn't a good thing to do.

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The people who have cleared Savage when it's relevant are far less likely to be clueless about how to play well than others.

But to that end, I wasn't entirely serious with my original post. We all know from the relic that YoshiP thinks time detached from skill is a basic input for output, so it's no wonder the mentor roulette is set up the same way.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

The people who have cleared Savage when it's relevant are far less likely to be clueless about how to play well than others.

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Or they bought a clear.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Or they bought a clear.

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True enough, but in that scenario, they aren't any worse than the current mentors.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

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You seem to be missing the point people trying to convey to you. Mentors mainly deal with people who're new or returning, neither of which are going to be raiding.

Besides say if a mentor has first clear in ultimate on their main but are a mentor on their alt, should they be left out or how would you determine whether they're "mentor material" or not. Then of course we have say someone who cleared all the coils when they were current but got burnt out or doesn't have time to raid as much so sticks to regular content, should they be left out of being a mentor because they're not up on current hard content?

For example i'm a decent healer and can usually keep my party alive in most situations but I suck with timing, I just don't work well while under pressure to perform, i'm also bad at explaining things and for that reason I've never bothered becoming a mentor, even tho I could easily do so if I leveled a tank on my miqo'te or had the dungeons cleared on this character.

In short mentors need to be able to clearly instruct others, they need to yes know the game, but savage content doesn't imply that you know these things, but at the same time it doesn't exclude you from these things.