Why do you fail at Hashmal?

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

...but no, the casual player base in general really isn't that good. Mayhaps a representative of this player base can explain things to me?

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You realize you're the common denominator in these fail groups. Maybe it's a you thing, rather than a them thing.

Failing at Hashmul is understandable. You have no right to complain until you run into groups who fail at Lakshmi NM.

How many mechanics are actually oneshot other than the pillars in your face?
I survive them all as whm, for the flaming arm its only the bleed that kind of makes it look like an insta death but i won't bother timing my esuna for you in that case if you're on the other side of the field. Tahs not my problem then.

Didn't die on the flaming arm in like... 10+ runs? No matter where i am, i just pop a sprint if i'm not in the middle and i'm good. Always, i can even manage to position myself if ihappen to have marker/purple aoe under me before he even rushes around.
I do admit that the purple aoes are kind of hard to see sometimes but if you know when they happen, its fine. And even if, i can, as a whm, get hit by one without dying... so just move your butt out of it instead of getting hit twice and dying.

Haven't had a wipe on the sand spheres in a while either, only if people are incapable of running to their alliance and getting the marker. And then thinking its a good idea to stack two stack marker. Died to that one once though because i was busy ressing other alliances and kinda tunnel visioned there.

The adds usually get lbed to death instantly in the runs i've had, too. Even if not, they Do get targeted down.

So in short: People die because they literally pay NO attention at all. They never move and get hit twice by things you survive if you get hit once, they tunnel vision to the point they can't even match their alliance letter to the letters that get put down. They don't notice obvious patterns such as him literally not being targetable and then react way too slow and then say its too fast(not talking about not seeing the arm, i don't have that problem...

And i'm just a casual, too but i don't refuse to learn mechanics and go healer because i do NOT trust anybody for good reasons...

So like, people saying its bad designed because alot of it oneshots you... its only one thing that does. The Pillars. Everything else is at least a two shot and you can prevent that from happening. If a healer survives mechanics, dps and tanks should, too.( i do survive it all as brd but brd has better equip)
I would say the last boss is worse designed because of the scatter thing being completely wrong in the meaning and people get hit for the black mask because they don't know auto attack triggers it, too.
Same goes with the markers,w hich you putin the middle and nowhere else, so it doesn't make sense. They just trick you but if you stay int he middle, you don#t have to move, so its a wasted mechanic.
Or spamming your move button in confuse to kind of negate the effect of it.
Or what about esuna'ing the debuff on the tank buster on the horse? That only works when it wants to, even if you time it 100% perfect and its gone before the hit.

Thats more annoying that anything Hashmal does in my book because you just can't do it as intended or cheese it to death.

I can do nearly all of the fight without any deaths..but I just suck at the pillars..there are runs where I am lucky and dont get hit and there was one run where I nearly got hit by each single pillar..I felt really bad..I am far away from a bad player and I do understand the bosses and unlike someone does not heal me or I make a stupid mistake I rarely die on the rest..but these pillars..a friend said that you can see how they will fall by the way of how they are cut but it just takes me too long to see that..

At first I was annoyed at people getting killed by them but after some rather unfortunate runs myself I am not angry at those that die at them. Its just not that easy to see in the short time until they fall and they do have a rather big hitbox. x) So even if I see that they will fall my way it might already be too late. Would be nice if those pillars would give us stacks or maybe nearly kill us but one hit killing is really annoying.

(So yeah in the end I just suck at them. x))

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Originally Posted by Alisi

You realize you're the common denominator in these fail groups. Maybe it's a you thing, rather than a them thing.

Failing at Hashmul is understandable. You have no right to complain until you run into groups who fail at Lakshmi NM.

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For Lakshmi, I actually have not been in a party that has not cleared her fight. Surprisingly.

For the other comment...I'm not...sure if that was directed specifically at me, or if it was answering the question. Don't want to put up the wrong response for a misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

How many mechanics are actually oneshot other than the pillars in your face?

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Towers are a one shot.
Extreme edge is usually a one shot because timing removing the bleed is really tricky and only a tank has the HP to survive the first tick.
Missing a sand sphere DPS check is a raid wipe.
Going to the wrong place and getting a double stack marker is a one shot at best, if you take that second stack marker away to die alone. At worst you take half a group with you if you try to stack two of them up.
Rock cutter is a one shot if you're not a tank.
Earth hammer is a one shot.

What does he do that isn't a one shot if you mess it up aside from jagged edge?

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

For the other comment...I'm not...sure if that was directed specifically at me, or if it was answering the question. Don't want to put up the wrong response for a misunderstanding.

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You haven't heard that before? It's what you say when people complain about how terrible other people are. ;P

Honestly, I think it's because people run bots in raids now. As a healer, I'm seeing a ton lately. The other three are easy enough that you have to actively try to wipe but with Hashmul, it's easier.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

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If it helps, what I usually do is keep him focus targeted and when I see the cast for 'Control Tower', I get ready to move to the middle. After the towers rise, I go near them and after Hashmal cuts them, I watch to see which direction they slide. It makes it easier for me personally to then dodge appropriately. Maybe give that a try, see if it helps at all.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Towers are a one shot.
Extreme edge is usually a one shot because timing removing the bleed is really tricky and only a tank has the HP to survive the first tick.
Missing a sand sphere DPS check is a raid wipe.
Going to the wrong place and getting a double stack marker is a one shot at best, if you take that second stack marker away to die alone. At worst you take half a group with you if you try to stack two of them up.
Rock cutter is a one shot if you're not a tank.
Earth hammer is a one shot.

What does he do that isn't a one shot if you mess it up aside from jagged edge?

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One "To Dust" can be survived. So not really a one shot mechanic.
Double stacking markers doesn't really count as a one shot though. Because technically that's 2 shots. Technically. :P
A lot of tank busters are one shots to non-tanks so I don't really think you can count that.
A lot of AoEs like Earth Hammer are one shots. Choco Meteor for example.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

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I have? I don't recall saying that to anyone in the forums, but I could be wrong. Keep in mind, I'm not suggesting that it's one or two people in this particular fight - there's usually 1 or 2 players dying in 24-mans. My question/complaint is more or less on when it's a majority of an alliance that ends up dying. I could understand the flaming arm, because you do have to rotate your camera to try and find Hashmal, but dealing with the sandspheres, eating the huge conal AOEs from the Command Tower, a non-tank taking a Rock Buster to the face...those are things that I'm referencing.

But all of them are avoidable if you pay attention and... actually do the mechanics?
Is it bad that it punishes you with dying if you, yourself, don't move out of the way? I don't see it as oneshot in itself because it does NOT kill you instantly if youa ctually manage to... move. Like, what else should not doing anything do? Faceroll the whole thing without ever doing a mechanic?

Pillars are one thing where i think its fine to die on sometimes. Hashmal IS big and if you're positioned wrong and don#t see the pillar cut behind him and the other one is directly in your face- one falling on you can happen. Or you get hit by a pixel.
Bleed kills you if you don't move, your fault (not factoring in not being able to see the fire ont he arm)
Rock cutter kills you because youre taking a tankbuster and if the tank tries their best to move it away but you/dps dance around in front anyways, your fault. Theres only so much a tank can do if the majority is in one spot and the rest is in front of Hashmal, too.
Earth hammer kills you because you weren't able to follow the boss, that moves away with the tank. For whatever reason. Your fault.
You CAN survive 2 exploding orbs on a good day, if all 3 explode, everybody does something wrong. Only seen more than 1 explode on the first week of the raid.
Doube stack marker: The straggler does EVERYTHING wrong and the dying alliance pays for it.

Being punished for doing nothing just isn't bad design, i don't think ozma is a problem, i don't think Scathach is aproblem, i don't think anything punishing is a problem. Its fun if you actually have to pay attention instead of just standing at one spot the whole fight because regen-ticks are enough to keep you alive.

Edit: Thanks qoute for not working apparently. Was for you, Tridus

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

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I haven't been in a raid that has wiped on Hashmul in a while... But if you want an actual reason, I will have to say: shitty healers who ignore the other alliances. I actively heal and/or rez people in other alliances. Alliances don't generally all die at once. It's a DPS then a healer and everyone else fails from there. Hashmul has enough mechanics that are easy to get killed on for a variety of reasons (from being crappy to having lag.) We are alliances, not armies of 8 people. We're supposed to be supporting each other. Often times, I'll support other alliances and they'll have no issues but when that support isn't reciprocated, our alliance often dies. If one alliance is dead, and you're a healer in another that's alive and well, then you take a share of the blame on yourself. If one alliance actually has to ask another to rev one of the healers (especially when the whole alliance is dead), then congrats: you're a shitty alliance healer.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

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Oh trust me, I agree. It may take me a bit because it's a bit difficult targeting other alliance healers on a PS4, but I will get to it once I'm sure I can miss a heal on my own alliance - I generally do not trust my co-healer due to experience. But yes, I agree on this aspect.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

But all of them are avoidable if you pay attention and... actually do the mechanics?
Is it bad that it punishes you with dying if you, yourself, don't move out of the way? I don't see it as oneshot in itself because it does NOT kill you instantly if youa ctually manage to... move. Like, what else should not doing anything do? Faceroll the whole thing without ever doing a mechanic?

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Never said it wasn't. But an encounter where everything one shots you if you fail it is a somewhat limited design. We've got that because burst healing is so strong that anything in these fights that doesn't one shot you simply isn't that dangerous, which goes back to what we were talking about a couple of pages ago. :)

Hashmal has lots of deaths and wipes because most of what he does is fatal. The other bosses tend to do nonlethal damage in one hit, so you need to fail multiple things very close together to die, or fail so many things that you stack vuln up enough times that it becomes lethal. Because they tend to do damage with mechanics that are spaced out, you're usually back at full after failing one and before the next one, so it's not a big deal. Same as pretty much everything in expert.

That's where the issue is. Doing moderate damage once and then doing no damage for a few seconds isn't terribly dangerous because the healers can burst the entire group back to full in that time relatively easily. So to actually threaten people, stuff has to be lethal or it has to come so fast that it can outdo our extremely strong burst healing.

People have so many problems with Hashmal compared to the others because it skews so heavily in the direction of one shots, and the healers can't effectively save people getting hit the way they can on the other fights. You put enough humans together and some of them will screw stuff up, because that's how groups of humans are.

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Being punished for doing nothing just isn't bad design, i don't think ozma is a problem, i don't think Scathach is aproblem, i don't think anything punishing is a problem. Its fun if you actually have to pay attention instead of just standing at one spot the whole fight because regen-ticks are enough to keep you alive.

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But see, that's my overall point. Healing shouldn't be so strong that you *can* eat everything and regen is enough to keep you alive. That's the problem. If healing is less powerful, standing around eating everything is going to whittle your HP down and eventually kill you without it being a one shot, because the healers won't be able to bring you back up to full so easily. That lets encounters be risky in terms of incoming damage without having to resort to one shots all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

I haven't been in a raid that has wiped on Hashmul in a while... But if you want an actual reason, I will have to say: shitty healers who ignore the other alliances. I actively heal and/or rez people in other alliances. Alliances don't generally all die at once. It's a DPS then a healer and everyone else fails from there. Hashmul has enough mechanics that are easy to get killed on for a variety of reasons (from being crappy to having lag.) We are alliances, not armies of 8 people. We're supposed to be supporting each other. Often times, I'll support other alliances and they'll have no issues but when that support isn't reciprocated, our alliance often dies. If one alliance is dead, and you're a healer in another that's alive and well, then you take a share of the blame on yourself. If one alliance actually has to ask another to rev one of the healers (especially when the whole alliance is dead), then congrats: you're a shitty alliance healer.

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I resurrect other alliance healers only if either my group is doing fine, swiftcast is ready or it's totally safe to hard cast. It's no good for you to ignore the next mechanic for a res because you can die to it or the hard res gonna be interrupted. In between your party can also die, you have to wait for the right moment. If you're dead, be patient :)

Hmm, for Hashmal: like many mentioned before it's safe to stand near him while he does his Tower Control, because after this he'll jump away for his ?Jagged Edge?. Or you stand on the middle line, so he can only spawn ahead or behind you. The mistake that many does is standing near the edge of the half moon arena, so if their unlucky they won't do it (even with sprint) in time. Here is a picture:

Arena look kind of this

https://i.imgur.com/94GQPyJ.png

The brown area is the ornament ground color. The black dot is Hashmal, the yellow are the towers. After he jumps away, he appears either A or B, so if you're standing near the middle or at least in the brown area you'll have plently of time to react for his dive. The players at the northern and southern edge at the halfmoon area have a 50/50 chance they'll survive.

You also don't have to run too the edge on the opposite. It often looks like this picture:

https://i.imgur.com/idWRSyZ.png

So now you can imagine what happend if some players get the purple or the other AOE's and running all at the same direction :D

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Oh trust me, I agree. It may take me a bit because it's a bit difficult targeting other alliance healers on a PS4, but I will get to it once I'm sure I can miss a heal on my own alliance - I generally do not trust my co-healer due to experience. But yes, I agree on this aspect.

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There's a easy way to do it on ps4. Do you see the little group of 8 boxes that indicate another alliance's party? Use the PS4's mouse button, slide your finger which moves the cursor over the box that represents the healer, and tap the button. That will target the healer, and then you can raise them. Most people don't realize that you can just rub the middle button and it moves the cursor like a touchpad, with tapping like clicking, and that you can target people from the alliance list. It even shows the current target of the boss in red.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

The most common reason is it is a positioning fight. Since there is a level of RNG for where the pillars drop and what half of the map will be instant death when he does his dash; you can't learn the mechanics as easily as the other bosses. That and all the havoc people also are out of place when the orbs spawn and are afraid to run through the bleeds to get where thy're needed.

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This is odd (i totally agree with you) but its odd because SE has driven home the idea on countless times that if you stand in an AoE your dead. It was like back in the day when Garuda Ex spawned 3 tornadoes... there was a short period where u could run through them without taking damage, and people never seemed to want to run through them (in the DF runs that I did way back when) out of fear of dying and causing a wipe.

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Originally Posted by Sieben79

https://i.imgur.com/idWRSyZ.png

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Forgot to mentioned it: after he bruise through the arena, you can already move to the other side, even if the groundanimation is burning :) so if players would stand near the center, they would have more place and time to decide where to go either with their aoe marks or without them.

Well i don't see it as a problem in design but you've got a fair point anyways. Don#t need to have the same opinion for that, you think it is, i think its not really.
Just saying that, if you pay attention, you should not die. Or at least minimal deaths. Nobody expects you to be a god behind a screen.

Funnily enough, the most i'm dying is during the fish(dude, don't know the name ) when the add freezes me because i mistake the iceskater for anything but that. But that can be healed through if the other healer notices...


The problem is just, how would you balance, say... Whm so its actually dangerous? I don't mind oneshot mechanics as whm at all. I don't mind throwing a Medica 2 through quacke and be done with it, either.
The Game just doesn't punish people enough for not doing mechanics. And Hashmal does.


And like i said, bad design are mechanics you can't really do because they either work or not -crush helm, the debuff does whatever it wants because the esuna cast time is actually too long and server latency and all that. The Hp either drops minimal, or a lot, even if you do not esuna the debuff.
or can be cheesed to the point its not even a mechanic anymore- confuse on the last boss by spamming your move button
or the ones that are just plain out wrong - scatter
at least for ME.

Edit: Holy hell my qoute button literally does not work at work, but its Still for you tridus, i didn't expect all these posts...

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

There's a easy way to do it on ps4. Do you see the little group of 8 boxes that indicate another alliance's party? Use the PS4's mouse button, slide your finger which moves the cursor over the box that represents the healer, and tap the button. That will target the healer, and then you can raise them. Most people don't realize that you can just rub the middle button and it moves the cursor like a touchpad, with tapping like clicking, and that you can target people from the alliance list. It even shows the current target of the boss in red.

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That's what I do. It just takes me a minute because I have to physically use the thumb that I use for activating my GCDs, so I have to be very sure that my alliance can survive for a few seconds before I go to resurrecting like this.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

Well i don't see it as a problem in design but you've got a fair point anyways. Don#t need to have the same opinion for that, you think it is, i think its not really.

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Yep, that's fair. :)

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Just saying that, if you pay attention, you should not die. Or at least minimal deaths. Nobody expects you to be a god behind a screen.

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While that's also true, the data on this fight shows a LOT of deaths. So, what should be and what actually are don't line up. A lot of the playerbase finds this to be a difficult fight.

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Funnily enough, the most i'm dying is during the fish(dude, don't know the name ) when the add freezes me because i mistake the iceskater for anything but that. But that can be healed through if the other healer notices...

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If you don't stand on the ice and people aren't failing something else, you should never be frozen. :)

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The problem is just, how would you balance, say... Whm so its actually dangerous? I don't mind oneshot mechanics as whm at all. I don't mind throwing a Medica 2 through quacke and be done with it, either.
The Game just doesn't punish people enough for not doing mechanics. And Hashmal does.

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I'd reduce all healing effects in the game by a third (and rebalance fights appropriately as needed). Someone taking 25k in avoidable damage, while not lethal to a geared character, should be a bad thing that takes real effort to recover from. It doesn't right now. Moro and I coheal Rabanastre together weekly and combined we can bring the entire group back up from 1hp to full in less than 5 seconds. Then we go back to DPSing. Moro thinks that's just fine, I tend to see it as an issue with how healing works.

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And like i said, bad design are mechanics you can't really do because they either work or not -crush helm, the debuff does whatever it wants because the esuna cast time is actually too long and server latency and all that. The Hp either drops minimal, or a lot, even if you do not esuna the debuff.
or can be cheesed to the point its not even a mechanic anymore- confuse on the last boss by spamming your move button
or the ones that are just plain out wrong - scatter
at least for ME.

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Yeah there's some wonky stuff in there. Figuring out what that last boss actually wants you to do was a hassle, although it's not quite as bad now that the text was changed to be less misleading.

Hashmal is the only reason I ever use Rescue (And last boss). Whenever I see my people on the other side for the flaming arm or on the wrong side of the arena for the sand spheres: Rescue. Also on the last boss, to drag the people with the confusion move to the small safe spot on the edge, almost at the end of the fight. Clearly after the confusion effect wears off.

At last the Earth Hammer:

https://i.imgur.com/1rxiTkp.png

Often you can see this happen at the raid: People running to the far edge to minimize damage (behind the green line). The orange line means medium damage and red is instant death. For the solo (or first) Earth Hammer it's the right decission. For the Triple one not, because of the purple AOE which comes after. People in the orange area take medium damage (with shields or self damage reduction not too much; Mana Shield yay!) but can easily avoid or react to the purple AOEs , while the grouped players only have one direction and often place a death trap for the others. Either sprint (if you haven't sprint used before) or die.

Just tell people, that have problems with the confuse part and the savespot, to spam a move button until they go into the right direction.
That will help them more with learning how to get past it instead of trying to hit the right direction in one go. Doing that since i noticed it works, never died to that mechanic ever again and i have slow reaction time and the spinning finger makes me dizzy, so i gave up on trying at first. But spinning till i'm right works.

Biggest killers by far for Hashmal:
-People you run in the same direction as the person marked with the red ground AoE
-Ranged not stacking close for AoE heals and dying to Quake and other various roomwide AoE

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

...but no, the casual player base in general really isn't that good. Mayhaps a representative of this player base can explain things to me?

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I'd like to address this as a misconception. Casual doesn't mean bad. I am a casual player but I am very good at the classes I play and with mechanics. Yes, sometimes you will screw up a mechanic. EVERYONE will do this at some point. It's how you bounce back from it that will show how good you are, and how well you work with a TEAM. Yes, you will always have bad players. But that in no means, means they are casuals. I've known some "hardcore" players that can play just as poorly as a newbie. So please do not lump all bad players into people who enjoy the game for what it is and have a good time while doing it.

As for Hashmal, alot of times theres just too much going down. Tanking and DPS is probably the easiest to do, while Healing tends to be where people die the most trying to heal DPS who just absorb every damage mechanic or trying to rez their team or other players. It requires a delicate balance of healing/rezzing and situational awareness that not everyone is capable of on some days. We all have good days and bad days. I had a healer on my team last night eat a couple columns. But she was a good healer and bounced back from each death spectacularly.

If more people took the time to help people I think these runs would go alot smoother and alot more people would know the fight more intimately, and not just of the floor...helping not just with the 24 man raid in general, but in dungeons, in primals, helping with classes and giving tips and tricks if you see something awry. No you can't help everyone but it could mean one less poorly performing player in the future!

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Originally Posted by Sieben79

I resurrect other alliance healers only if either my group is doing fine, swiftcast is ready or it's totally safe to hard cast. It's no good for you to ignore the next mechanic for a res because you can die to it or the hard res gonna be interrupted. In between your party can also die, you have to wait for the right moment. If you're dead, be patient

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I didn't say 'obviously, don't heal the other alliance while neglecting your own' because I felt that was self explanatory. To an extent. If all three alliances are suffering and I see one has wholly collapsed, I will send a rev to the healer(s) over one of our DPS. Healers are more of a priority to stabilize a bad situation and bring the group back from a near wipe. Was in an alliance raid the other day. Two of the alliances were down and half of ours was dead. Managed to get the other alliances up and running, and all of our own as well, and didn't wipe. It feels great to do that. :)

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

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Alright, fair enough. Allow me to retort. If it were 2 or 3 players, I can promise that this thread would not have been created (by me, at least). I will throw out help if someone needs or asks for it. My issue is not with the few, but when entire alliances get wiped out, repeatedly, I might add; I start to wonder what the problem is. I know hardcore players who are in full ilvl340 who repeatedly fail over and over again to O1S slides. But that's Savage, and that's an issue somebody would have to take up if they wanted to speak on it. I was only talking about content that everybody accesses normally. If this was just about a few players, I'd be venting about it in the Tales from the Duty Finder lol.

Keep in mind, I'm not posting this just because I've only seen it happen once or twice. I see it happening very consistently - I usually get maybe two good runs out of a month, then Hashmal becomes a problem all over again. And for those bad runs, it's not just a couple player - it's usually a majority of a single alliance or, in one very special case, about half of the entire raid messed up and we all died to his Ultimate.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

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Thousands of players play the game, it will never be just 2 or 3 players. Don't just wait for someone to ask for help. Make points (politely) to aid others. Alot of people I've run into are in that 340 gear but maybe never noticed a trick to a mechanic, or a certain way to tweak their rotation etc. Sometimes things are just overlooked. That coupled with job boosts now its more of an issue. But its not a bad thing if people help others. Yes normally when you run a 24 man you'll have a higher chance of coming across people who may not be the best at the game. But that doesn't mean they can't be! I've worked with plenty of bad alliances (and beyond hope alliances I must admit) that got better with guidance and help, and you know what thats 7 other players (on a bad night) that now can run the content even better than before! We help shape the community. Just calling out and asking why are people so bad/or fail work against the community.

You have to look at it from the standpoint Hashmal does alot of damage and does it relatively quickly combined with one shot insta deaths. It's very easy to screw up more so than most content aside from savage. Typically in savage, you know from the get go if a group will work or not. With a 24 man, you can mostly, mostly cheese Mateus to get to Hashmal. So many, even new players are unprepared for the steep increase in difficulty. At first you may be thinking, oh this party is going to be great! (I always think of Lucio with that.....) Then Hashmal appears and everyone is dead. Even for seasoned vets whom I've also seen take a column or wing to the face. In the end, stuff happens, bad luck and placement happens, and everyone dying happens. Again, as in my previous post, its how you bounce back and learn from the fight that makes the difference.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Alright, fair enough. Allow me to retort. If it were 2 or 3 players, I can promise that this thread would not have been created (by me, at least). I will throw out help if someone needs or asks for it. My issue is not with the few, but when entire alliances get wiped out, repeatedly, I might add; I start to wonder what the problem is. I know hardcore players who are in full ilvl340 who repeatedly fail over and over again to O1S slides. But that's Savage, and that's an issue somebody would have to take up if they wanted to speak on it. I was only talking about content that everybody accesses normally. If this was just about a few players, I'd be venting about it in the Tales from the Duty Finder lol.

Keep in mind, I'm not posting this just because I've only seen it happen once or twice. I see it happening very consistently - I usually get maybe two good runs out of a month, then Hashmal becomes a problem all over again. And for those bad runs, it's not just a couple player - it's usually a majority of a single alliance or, in one very special case, about half of the entire raid messed up and we all died to his Ultimate.

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I think people die because of herds mentality. In other 24-Raids or boss fights there are safe spots, where every player goes if specific mechanics happen, but the Hashmal fight punish you if you go where all other goes. Beware of Refugium, Collective Unconscious or Sacred Coil after the Tripel Hammer. People who don't know this fight think it's safe because the Healer decided to place it there, but all what awaits is death :D

Also there are first timers or people second or third run. We don't know. Maybe you're just unlucky with your teams.
My own experience ratio with hashmal ist 70/30 where 70 are the good runs without a wipe. The ratio of runs without deaths ist 10/90 :D and after about 100+ of runs (because of gear farming) even I die to a tower because I underestimated it and will die to it (playing mostly Blackmage).

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

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There's only so much help that one can give. Put it this way, even on the occasions when I do voice my help, it's usually drowned out by others ridiculing all who caused the wipe, or there are vote abandon spams, or even rage quits. I'm not even viewing this as a raider, but as a former casual player. Let me throw in another example, one I have used before. In Baelsar's Wall, that second boss with the 'Extreme Caution debuff'...if I kindly explain, after a wipe, that you shouldn't move or take any action as soon as you get hit with the 'Extreme Caution debuff' (i.e. you get three red circles surrounding you), and two further wipes later, a majority of the party still dies to that, there's an issue. Let's not bring up the language, because in those two runs I've had there, they spoke the same language as I just fine. It's things like that that make me wary of offering advice because, what's the point if people in general will not listen, no matter how politely you put it.

It's the same with Rabanastre. In the first month, most people listened because most people wanted to get through the rest of the raid. I'm not suggesting I didn't see those moments with rage quitters, toxicity, and vote abandon spams, because that's pretty much everywhere throughout MMOs. Nowadays, no matter how nicely you explain it, no matter how detailed or how well it is explained, it still happens in the exact same run, leading to most of the raid finally caving in and voting to abandon. One bad night does not equate what seems like Hashmal fights hitting a very massive wall more often than not currently. Granted, everybody's experience is very different. I'm on the Aether Datacentre, so it could be different on Primal, or maybe, just maybe, I'm just unlucky enough to be seeing these runs more often than others. I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Sieben79

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Heh....maybe I am running into bad luck. I dunno. I've been through on all three roles, so I have a general idea of how to tackle the fight from each perspective.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Heh....maybe I am running into bad luck. I dunno. I've been through on all three roles, so I have a general idea of how to tackle the fight from each perspective.

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I don't deny it that there are also lazy players in teams or leecher who always get a call from work or had a lag for whole 15 minutes and then do nothing. I also played Paladin, Whitemage in Rabanastre, so it's not only a view from a DD side :) But Blackmage is fun for me to do the mechanics and do damage in this more or less chaotic environment.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

I'd like to address this as a misconception. Casual doesn't mean bad. I am a casual player but I am very good at the classes I play and with mechanics.

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Agreed casual really should not be the community go-to as a measure of skill. It really fits better as measure of time played. For instance, I myself am a very casual player because I play a mere 2-3 hours a week.However, I wanted to respond to this to draw attention to an issue I very frequently see in the FF14 community. When people make a statement or offer advice, your credibility is directly influenced by your experience.

Frequently we see low information players make comments like "I have every character at 70 I know what I am talking about", or "I have a mentor crown, so I know more than you", when in fact neither of those (and many other instances) are indicative of actual subject matter expertise.

In your specific example, you've made a decision to hide your logs. That is a red flag to me that demonstrates that you may lack the class/mechanic expertise you claim to possess (not that you do, merely that it is likely).

Couple that with a statement you made below about another healer who had "eaten a couple columns", but then stated that they were indeed a good healer. However, evidence clearly shows the opposite. We all make mistakes for sure, ESPECIALLY including myself, but repeatedly dying to the same mechanic and calling that player good is a red flag that further cripples your credibility.

I'm all for helping people, in fact I thoroughly enjoy it, but they have to want to be helped. In my admittedly anecdotal, experience the playerbase simply does not take tips/criticism well regardless of how many smileys, how colloquial, or cat girl ASCII memes I post while attempting it.

Last piece - please understand this is not intended as an attack on you personally, but merely a demonstration intended to show that if you want to be more credible to your audience you need to demonstrate you come from a position of subject matter expertise.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

There's only so much help that one can give.

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I'm on the same boat with you here. I have given up on teaching and explaining things. I remember some people tried to vote kick me for telling the tank how to tank in World of Darkness. When we cleared I /clap at him and they got offended thinking I was being sarcastic. -.-

I expect them to know what they are doing or research on their own. It's not my responsability.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

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On this subject, however, since we are talking specifically about Rabanastre, while I agree that experience does play a role in a person's credibility, FFlogs really has no bearing outside of Savage runs....not that I'm aware of players who even have time to check Fflogs in a 24-man. I get what you're trying to say myself, but that being said, the FFLOGs comment doesn't really have much of a bearing when it comes to Rabanstre or really, the thread at hand.

*edit*

And I've actually hit my posting limit for the day...surprisingly. Haven't hit that since my first few months here. I do encourage a wider discussion on this, though. Seems like I touched on something beyond Hashmal, so I'm actually looking forward to what other posters might say and how this discussion will evolve.

*edit 2*

If anybody catches this comment, what are the post limits? Or where can I find them? Might have to start multi-quoting in my replies.

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Originally Posted by Sieben79

So now you can imagine what happend if some players get the purple or the other AOE's and running all at the same direction :D

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This is what I usually die to as the players with purple all stack on top everybody as we move towards the outside.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

You don't reliably get bonus messages in Rabanastre for some reason.

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I ran it for the first time this week and there was no bonus message on either my Thursday attempt which was a disband after two wipes on the 2nd boss, or the subsequent Friday attempt which was a clear.

As to the OP, I'm in the "oh crap, that tower got sliced in the direction that I am strafing" camp. I try my best to move where other people are moving but if I am even a half second behind, I get hit by the aoe that went of a few seconds ago even when I am standing with everyone else when it kills me.

Also, it was only my 2nd time even seeing this fight - so yes, there are still new people. I started Heavensward when Stormblood dropped and started Stormblood in mid December (took my time to level all my DOH/DOL/DOMs to 60 before starting SB MSQ)

It's almost always when I get hemmed in from someone else stacking those purple circles on/near me and I can't get out in time.
That, and healers dying so often they can't keep up with the raid-wide splash damage.

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Originally Posted by ChloeGrace

It's almost always when I get hemmed in from someone else stacking those purple circles on/near me and I can't get out in time.
That, and healers dying so often they can't keep up with the raid-wide splash damage.

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Got to love when they do that to the healer. Trying to keep myself up and they double circle you and poof. Personally I love the raid and I choose to heal it now as opposed to dps on my main and alts.

In all of this, I forgot to ask about the only mech in the whole raid that I can't overcome: Argath gnawing dread + trepidation combo. I really suck at moving in the way I want to so I thought I'd ask if anyone knows at what time he does this combo and where's the best place to be when he does it so I have some time to work the gnawing dread out.