If anything some of those JP servers might be on the chopping block should SE decide server merges to be a thing. So many 6-7k populations :0Quote:
Originally Posted by D-chan
For RP on Aether, Mateus seems to be growing like a weed. It being sold as the new RP server feels like its become semi common knowledge amongst rp sites/reddit/tumblr/here in the forums. That said, I wouldn’t mind an officially tagged RP server (though Im not moving till they force me to lol) but I'd be against it if it came at the expense of merges or splits.
Locking Balmung/Gilgamesh is not working
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10-24-2017, 03:41 PMRokke
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10-24-2017, 03:41 PMKazgrel
The locks are still a necessary evil. I started on Goblin, but after playing for a month or so and deciding this would be my MMO of choice, I moved to Balmung because the friend that recruited me to play the game had friends and FC there. Played all of HW while there, basically. We all decided to take the free transfers during SB early access due to the 2+ hour log in queue that plagued Balmung (among other servers) at the time. Part of me didn't want to move, but since then, I've been able to get 2 more folks I know to give the game a try; had I remained on Balmung, they would've never bothered (since they couldn't join me there). Here we are 4 months later and I can say we don't regret the move one bit...and yes, we did have to leave a FC house behind, so it wasn't like we left nothing but contacts/friends. SE is wanting more examples like what my FC and I went through...easier said than done, of course.
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10-24-2017, 03:54 PMAlien_Gamer
The lockout is there for a reason, to stop Balmung from imploding, literally. The server was so big the hardware was having trouble handling it so SE needed to put a stop to it. Closing the inflow of new characters was one step, incentivizing leaving is the second and its been working; Balmung has shrunk a little and other servers are bigger now but its not enough for Balmung to be in a healthy state at the SERVER level. Until it shrinks to where SE is comfortable with it Balmung will remain closed. If you don't like that its closed then move because you're part of the problem with the server. Its a simple choice: stay with a full server and not see new characters or move to a new server, both have their consequences.
Making an RP tag doesn't solve anything, it only recreates the problem. Players created the unofficial RP tag for Balmung and everyone flocked to it and now its locked. Players made Mateus a second RP server and players flocked to that and now its closed. If SE creates an official RP server what do you think is going to happen? People will flock to it until it gets full and closed and then you'll do what? Complain its closed just like you're doing with Balmung and demand another RP server? The problem is players trying to all consolidate on one server, you need to spread out and establish RP communities on multiple servers and put the effort into making them grow then you won't have this problem of stacking on a server and forcing SE to close it. SE can't force this fix, this needs to come from the people voluntarily spreading out. -
10-24-2017, 03:59 PMBigRed53926-7K servers are normal for them. 14K+ servers are abnormal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokke
ff11 servers were 4-5K ppl across a 500K population.
also korea servers try to do a merge, they found it nearly impossble due to the way housing works. -
10-24-2017, 03:59 PMElHeggunteWell what on earth do you think is going to happen if SE were to make an "official" RP server? Either you expect most RPers to rush to it, which will wind up causing another unsustainable mess that will just be locked again in short order or you don't think many people will move at all, which would make the new server pointless. Just going by what's being said in this very thread, I'm willing to bet that the majority of the people in here in agreement with the OP are expecting an official RP server to balloon in population. I don't think anyone is expecting it or hoping or to stay small at any rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkPrincess
Even if SE labeled or made several new "RP" servers, you're still very likely going to have most of your players dog-pile onto only one of them, and then you'll have the rest of them come and complain that the big server is locked instead of just going to one of the other open ones. That's exactly how Balmung and Gilgamesh ended up being so bloated in the first place; instead of trying to foster more communities elsewhere, everyone kept trying to force their way onto servers that were on the verge of catching fire.
But why does SE need to give you direction? Don't be lemmings, decide for yourselves. Having tags would be exceedingly pointless as the community has already done a good job on its own of deciding where to gather for RP (probably too well, considering how Balmug and Greg ended up) and there's nothing at all that would make them follow the tags anyway.Quote:
People just want direction from SE on what sort of communities they should foster on what servers.
It's a basic tagging of servers.
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10-24-2017, 04:18 PMRokkeMateus no longer qualifies as a preferred server, but its open to new characters and transfers :0Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer
I meant it as a general comment on how the only small pop servers are now JP servers. I remember reading the fallout from the korean merges on reddit which is why I'd rather have the lock then any "solution" involving merges.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed5392
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10-24-2017, 04:30 PMTheodric
I've always stood behind the firm belief that role-players only need a handful of things from the developers of an MMO:
- A large, richly detailed game world.
- A variety of emotes and the ability to create custom emotes.
- A coherent story and expansive, interesting lore.
It's up to role-players themselves to create places for them to gather. Almost every major MMO has a community of role-players associated with it and they typically decide on a server to settle on around the time of any given MMO's launch. Depending on how popular the game becomes, though, it isn't possible for every role-player to exist on the same server. Especially not if they want a decent chunk of players there who are focused on the PvE/PvP side of the game. -
10-24-2017, 05:01 PMuvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemuI blame hollywood and youtube. It's not so much as a place but the crowd to worship them. Every dog and their moms want to be a star, that's basically what they mean by "unified". A real community knows to separate their RP on each server and their community work outside the game. It's purely their false notion of famehood (a.k.a how good their RP is) that got them in this mess in first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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10-24-2017, 05:34 PMArmachiA
Wait, I'm so confused. I haven't heard any "rper" make the argument that Balmung needs to open but all I'm seeing is a bunch of people going "Balmung needs to stay locked!". Where is this argument?
Rpers seem to want a new server with an RP tag so they can get OFF Balmung, which would basically be a server split - which some people said needs to happen while making fun of RPers for wanting a new server? What even is this thread. -
10-24-2017, 05:41 PMD-chanwhat even ???Quote:
Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu
Edit: Okay, I wasn't going to dignify this with a real response, but I'll bite. Our community can't "work outside the game" when the activity we're doing is inside the game. We're doing all that we can outside the game. We have RPers coming together on the FFXIV RP coalition site, or tumblr, or Discords, or even twitter and FB groups. But for people who prefer in-game RP over Discord/Skype/Tumblr/whatever RP, we have to be on the same server(s) to RP in game, unless people just want to RP cross server, which prevents characters from being face-to-face and having avatars to interact which... is kind of the point of MMORP as opposed to RPing via a forum or IM's.
Your reasoning doesn't even make sense, because people wanting notoriety and attention is often how RP hubs get started on other servers. It's easier to get attention when you're organizing the movement, it's easier to be a big fish in a small pond. Balmung is a sea of RPers; you have to work hard and stand out to be "popular." That's easy in smaller RP communities. Your assertions are way off base and you obviously know very little about the game's RP community. -
10-24-2017, 06:43 PMArmachiA
I rped in FFXI - a lot of people did - which if you look, was released 2/3 years before youtube. World of Warcraft launched with RP servers in 2004 - one year before YouTube. so what even is that argument.
People aren't making sense in this thread and I'm rightfully confused. -
10-24-2017, 07:02 PMSaitoHikariThe way I see it, people want Balmung to shrink, but they also don't want the RPers in their backyards (server). Or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmachiA
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10-24-2017, 07:52 PMLewtskiePeople probably cringe at the thought of a Mateus 'horror story' happening on their server, or a small batch of bigots with a preternatural hate for RP are those with a "beef" against people from Balmung being migrated to other servers. The justified hate is coming in response to people saying that other servers should be merged, ones that had no relation to Balmung or its sister servers, to make way for a new RP server.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
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10-24-2017, 08:08 PMSenlitenThis, a thousand times this.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCheese77
Hell, even on FV in EQ there was this issue, but the exception was not the norm. SE is letting the problem boil over when the solution is right in front of them. Plus the fact that people continue to try and make unofficial RP servers shows that there is a heavy emphasis on RPing for this game, and given it's franchise history, that is to be expected. Their fear of 'labeling' is one that is heavily unbased and only on 'fringe' level circumstances, that if they honestly were that worried, they wouldn't have given us the option to flag up for RPing via the character status page in game. -
10-24-2017, 10:20 PMExKageRPers also want housing relocation and/or guaranteed housing on these new servers as well. I'm pretty damned sure that's a huge caveat to even having an RP tagged new server.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmachiA
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10-25-2017, 08:07 AMTevatronI mean the first half of that makes sense. The second half of that is bonkers and isn't a demand I've seen made literally anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by ExKage
I think part of the reason the campaign to get people to move off of Balmung and Gilgamesh hasn't been successful, not just with roleplayers but players in general (as evidenced by the continued closure) is that there's not a strong incentive for people to surrender the sunk costs they've made on their home servers. You can talk about the immeasurable value of social groups, but there are ways around that and a lot of those solutions are player-side.
What isn't solvable player-side and what is very measurable is the value of a house someone has right now versus a house they might have on another server. A good case has not been made for people who've established roots of measurable value on these servers to leave and divest themselves of something of value they have right now in hopes of potentially getting something of lesser value later.
You can say they don't necessarily need to move, but I think there's a good argument to be made for the idea that people and free companies sufficiently motivated to obtain housing in Gilgamesh's and Balmung's incredibly competitive markets are probably also more likely (but not universally) to be people prone to high levels of social interaction which means they would have a certain magnetism as entities to encourage other players to remain on-server. -
10-25-2017, 09:10 AMBubblyBoar
It would be hilarious if SE tagged a server as RP so all that RPers could go to that server. The one they tagged? Balmung :^ )
That aside, the answer is not server merging (aether server are too big to merge) and not tagging a server (it'll just move all the people on balmung to the new server and making that one have the same issue as Balmung now). The best option is what they are doing now, getting people to transfer off or quit. Balmung is literally breaking the whole datacenter. -
10-25-2017, 09:54 AMBillyKaplanBalmung is already effectively an RP server so I don't see why the population, many of whom own houses and apartments on top of having social networks, should move. Just because you tag a server as RP doesn't mean all the existing rpers will flock there in droves, while it makes it easier for new rpers to find a place.Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblyBoar
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10-25-2017, 09:59 AMTevatronHi, yes, this is my point, and thank you for illustrating it so clearly. That's not sarcasm, I am genuinely grateful to see someone encapsulate the point so clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
The intent behind the argument I'm making is not that this will 100% alleviate the server population problem or that it will move all roleplayers. The point is that it will provide a positive incentive other than "your server is increasingly awful to be on", a strategy that is absolutely ineffective in the context of how groups of humans make decisions.
Balmung has a sizeable population of a specific subset of the playerbase. Telling those people they can go to a specific server and have a higher-than-even odds of finding an equal or better experience of the community experience they're looking for is one way you can add value to that choice instead of removing value from the default choice of not moving.
I cannot stress it enough: The least effective way to make people make a certain choice is to punish them for making the default choice. That is not how humans work. -
10-25-2017, 12:31 PMArmachiAThis is untrue, of the 12-15k people on the server maybe MAYBE 2-3k are RPers. Balmung has a very diverse community. Would SE open a new server, it would split the server fairly well (Which is what everyone wants so I don't understand the pushback) the issue with some Rpers is the incentives with housing aren't very good. Maybe with the changes they plan on making with housing will change things, but we don't know till they announce.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
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10-25-2017, 04:25 PMBillyKaplanThat doesn't negate what I said. While Balmung isn't made up of only rpers, by virtue of the server merge way back when if nothing else, the truth remains that that's our selling point, that was our reputation, and that's why a lot of people transferred there even when the only way to get in was to pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmachiA
Also I'd like to see your source for the numbers. -
10-25-2017, 07:19 PMArmachiA
there's never any sure numbers, but we can go by where the RPers tend to congregate, RPC and Tumblr. While the RPC boasts around 12k members, around 5.8k - 6k of those have 0 posts (Yes, I did count). The RPC also had around 1200 logins over the last month and 400-600 in the last week (I can't remember which).
I know people are going to say "But not everyone knows about the rpc!" which, duh, but to say it isn't well known is false. It's the first thing that pops up on google when you type "FFXIV Roleplay". Most people use it to see where the rp server is and move on, and, yes, a lot don't make an account.
Next is Tumblr, which is harder, but I counted around 300-400 accounts that have used the FFXIV RP tag in various forms (I can't tell you which ones are inactive now, not gonna search through all the blogs), but I know some of those are also people who post on the rpc and a lot are Mateus (Mateus is taking over tumblr!) so I'll be safe about say 300
That puts the total so far at 1500. Now I'm going to double it for all the people who don't do either - which exist though I don't think it's 1500 hundred people but it might be.
That would put the number at 3k give or take. -
10-25-2017, 07:35 PMBillyKaplanI'm on Balmung for rp purposes without every having looked up that sort of thing because I got there through my friends who were already on the server. So good for that site to hit so high on google, but you're overselling its importance still because I guarantee you I'm not the only one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmachiA
So you're using it to backup your claim why, again? You're basically admitting your so called proof and sources are fallible.Quote:
Most people use it to see where the rp server is and move on, and, yes, a lot don't make an account.
Every single thing you brought up is completely circumstantial if it even has any sort of relevance to this supposed count. Like you yourself said, not everyone will create an account, and even fewer will be the people who'll bother having a tumblr and actually maintain it. So you have no numbers to support any of your claims. Which is to say, that's fine, neither do we. But please don't use farfetched numbers to try and debunk the very factual claim that "Balmung was the go-to rp server despite lacking an official rp tag until it was locked".Quote:
That would put the number at 3k give or take.
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10-25-2017, 07:41 PMArmachiA
I never said it wasn't the go to. What I said is that Balmung is not majority RPers. A lot of naysayers (and people in the community, too) seem to think the RP community is way, way bigger than it is - which is why they are pushing back against another server because they are sure it'll turn into "another Balmung" - the truth is, while rpers are a sizable community, they aren't a server breaking one.
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10-25-2017, 07:47 PMBillyKaplanAnd I never said that it is, regardless of what I believe, which is why I was so confused when you replied to my post and said, I quote,Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmachiA
"This is untrue". -
10-25-2017, 09:25 PMZojhaYikes! That would be like judging FFXIV as a whole by the official forums. We had a player poll on that once. If even an official community site isn't representative of a community, don't make the assumption an unofficial site will be. More than that, you focused on log-ins and ignored the "guests" reading the forums without logging in, which at the time of writing this outnumber the logged in members about 9 to 1. Not all of those are legitimate, of course, but flat-out ignoring them is gonna put your numbers way off.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmachiA
Personally, I'll side with the safe statement of:"We have no real idea.". But I do wager that an official RP server would likely end up clogged up again, because nothing is preventing people who don't care about RP to come to such a server and especially open RP often gives a server the feeling of "livelihood" people crave.