So uh, Command Missions...

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Originally Posted by Aamalthea

I had 100% planned on using this as an active "learn how to tank" minigame. So this works for me so I won't be so quick to be angry at the pugs when they do this.

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...that's actually a great idea :O

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

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Looked at some other topics myself and I have to admit: you're right.

But I also think that a situation like that scare off both tanks and healers. And then we have a 30-minutes queue because most players are afraid to being tanks or healers due to some a** ***es that think that demand something is good. Sight...

But I want that this post be the last off-topic from me. The post is interesting, as I'd like to try this system to level my other healers or use it to learn to tank and I'm not sure if it is useful for that. I would do the DRK quest and try it anyways, but I am without patience to listen winy babies crying over something that I'm just learning.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

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Sorry, but I don't want to discuss that here. Save your arguments about that matter for that topic, OK?

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

But I want that this post be the last off-topic from me. The post is interesting, as I'd like to try this system to level my other healers or use it to learn to tank and I'm not sure if it is useful for that. I would do the DRK quest and try it anyways, but I am without patience to listen winy babies crying over something that I'm just learning.

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I am using it to help me learn to heal again in this game. The NPCs do take less damage than a normal PCs, so I am able to make "slower" reactions/actions much safer than I would in a normal dungeon with PC players.

As for tanking, I have not done that yet, I will probably do a dungeon run tonight.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Like to cry about it? Go to this topic and cry there. Let people discuss about command missions, ok?

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Not making unnecessary posts dragging this derailment on would be a good start too. Cheers.

Back on topic:

I finally got the defensive AI unlocked for my GLD. I could swear that his single target agro seems better despite him losing quite a lot of DPS from switching out Independent IV. Unsurprisingly, it makes absolutely no difference to his eagerness to go charging down corpses on the King but the rest of the dungeon definitely felt better overall. Once I catch him up with a few more rank ups I'll be putting the CNJ back on Independent I think.

Another issue I am noticing tho, he will frequently go 4 or 5 GCDs without doing a single flash which is naturally far too long. A couple of simple tweaks such as the CNJ opening with Stone instead of Aero, and the GLD hitting flash a couple of times on the pull with more than one mob would likely make a huge huge difference.

Beyond that, I think SE need to suck it up and flag certain mobs to be ignored by the Tank AI, pretty much any other solution is going to take up a lot more server CPU cycles than I suspect SE will be willing to give.

I am not really sure what I should think about the feature. Tried out Halatali this evening and it was kinda annoying. I choose to go as a healer for safety measurements and that was the right decision. Its was a bit funny to see the ninja pulling a monster before the tank but at the same time it was also a bit annoying to see such behavior but since you can only sent the whole team to attack or not its probably not possible to stop that. My tank often decided to not pull the hate of all monster thus I had them on me as soon as I attacked them. At least he got the aggro back fast. The bosses were really frustrating. Either you sent the whole team to get the adds or you just try to do it all on your own. Its worse since the first one has adds spawn all over the room which makes sending them already quite bad but somehow they will go back to the boss after killing one add instead of doing them all. So you would have to click on each new add for them to attack it while killing the other ones yourself.

Thankfully they have good HP and since the monster HP decreased this did not lead to a wipe.

They stood in the electro all the time on the second boss. If I called them back so that the adds would go to us, they might kill one of them there but as soon as it was death they were running back to the boss. In the end I let them stand in it, healed through everything and killed most of the adds alone.

When I remembered who was going to be the final boss I was a bit afraid of it. Having to click on each single add while they are coming in from all sides is really not nice. And somehow they immediately will run back to the boss even if you call them back and sent them to others. Why do they remember the old boss? Why cant they just not attack those things that are near them or just stop attacking after their add is death. Way better than to have them run back to the boss and into the fire aoe while needing more time to run back to the other adds. At the end I only killed the biggest ones and healed through the rest.

This was not a nice experience and I am not really sure why this feature is truly necessary. There is only a certain amount of dungeons available and depending on the people I am not really sure if this is such a good way to level. Also if you are not the healer and your healer derps you just might wipe a lot too. I just dont feel like leveling them up again in the hope of getting better A.I in battle. Especially since I can just level my jobs through the palace or PVP and dont need anything from the dungeons too. (And if I do I could simply unsynch this) And its not like I did not already run those dungeons enough before that patch so running them again and again for a hopeful better A.I does not really sound very incentive to me.

Some points which I would love to be improved: If we have to micromanage them so much then please give us more actions. For example give us a button to only let the tank attack a certain target and one that will only sent DDs to them. This way the tank can stay on a boss while the DD will kill adds. Maybe even a button which will force healers to heal a certain person if you notice that they are not doing their jobs.

But Alleo, that boils down to a management issue. First off, on the second boss, it doesn't matter if they stand on the electricity. It deals little to no damage to them. You can select the add, click on "engage" and they will burn it in a second. You scroll through the aggro list: Select - Engage. In the last boss, you can pretty much ignore the little flames. Their damage is pathetic. Just focus on the Sprite the same way you did it with the second boss: Click on sprite, engage. Then they automatically will go after the boss once the add is dead.

They get enhanced by a attack+defense buff. They shouldn't take that much damage from any source. If you're going as SCH, the fairy can pretty much carry that run. However, I agree with you on having more options for micromanagement.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

If the behaviour ranks actually do impact their AI and not just their stats, then I think GLA could compete with MRD due to having Ring of Scorn access. In my current team where mine only has defensive rank 1 and I've yet to grind out the points, it is used very rarely however. If it becomes more common at higher ranks then I think it might beat MRD out, or at least tie in (especially owing to the extra defensive CDs it has).

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I haven't experimented with GLD with a higher defensive stance. But I guess the aggro management will be better on GLA because it's a circular AoE, opposed to the wonky conal AoE combined with their weirdly programmed AI. Do they spam Circle of Scorn? I have noticed they don't seem to have skills on cd, as they sometimes spam it. (Barrage on ARC, for instance). I also noticed that, the higher the stance, they start using other skills like raid wide damage up. This is getting really interesting.

Side note: When you clear 10 dungeons with your squadron, you get an achievement and some workout emotes.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

Do they spam Circle of Scorn? I have noticed they don't seem to have skills on cd, as they sometimes spam it. (Barrage on ARC, for instance).

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They can, yes. I saw mine throw out one right after the first because something was just out of reach the first time. Only ever happened once.
Also never saw it use it single target, despite being willing to spam Flash single target.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Funny thing is that even with aggro problems, it's still better than running with 3 players.

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Yes but only if you play the healer. I tried wanderers palace as BLM and it was just a pain in the butt but it worked fine as WHM.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

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The general aggro from GLA does seem to be more consistent than MRD thanks to Flash, so that's been nice (and they get Sentinel and Bulwark, which beats MRD's Thrill of Battle quite handily on the defensive side....though I don't think they're strictly necessary). I can't say that they spam Circle of Scorn, because as I said, I've not been pumping squadron masteries due to not playing much so far. On defensive 1 I only saw it used one time so far. I'm hoping to see the use go up with mastery rank. With that, and the low cooldown NPC skills have, it should be able to match MRD for damage output I think.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

There's really not much to micro when the only commands are "Everyone attack this," which the tank ignores after getting one hit in, or "Do nothing." Microing pets is godlike compared to squadrons and the pet micro is atrocious in this game. Thankfully the AI is competent enough in general that it gets the job done, though I believe that it's mostly done through their massively overscaled stats and almost nonexistent cooldowns.

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Who said anything about the amount you have to micro manage? I was talking about two specific fairy commands that are similar to engage and disengage, and because of this familiarity, it was easier for me to micro manage them.

Your post is a little salty, but I will agree that the tank AI needs some adjustments. It's a small reason why I chose to tank these things, but it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. The squad members do use CDs, they just don't use the optimally.

I'd like to point out (haven't read through the whole thread) that the Command Missions also serve as a learning tool for the player. Not just in playing their role in a party, but also in attentive management. Thus far, I've only done 2 runs, both Wanderer's Palace - 1 success, 1 fail. Played as a tank for my win and quickly figured out it really helps to manually direct your team on each kill if you need to, like killing some Tonberry adds, at least while they use the independent tactic. Obviously, I haven't played it enough to determine if that is remedied with higher ranks or different options.

Side note though: My failed attempt was because the untargetable Tonberry wandering the area killed the healer out of combat when it for some reason wouldn't move. No way to rez at the time, so had to quit the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

No way to rez at the time, so had to quit the dungeon.

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On a side note, if this happens, just die to something and you'll all respawn at the start of the dungeon, there's no penalty for wipes with the Squadron beyond a dented pride <3

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

On a side note, if this happens, just die to something and you'll all respawn at the start of the dungeon, there's no penalty for wipes with the Squadron beyond a dented pride <3

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Ah good call. The simple answers are often the best (and most overlooked).

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Originally Posted by Airget

They should add the following Orders.

"Go To A" "B" "C" "D" Basically the command with dis-engage and cause the allies to gather in one location

"Focus 1" "2" "3" "4" "5" Same as above but it will force the allies to engage the target with the proper number, if number is not active it will act just like the Order Button.

I think those basic changes would help when it comes to dealing with AOE. I'd rather take 30 second using waymarks and signs to better order the party then deal with the hassle of nearly wiping because of their derpiness lol.

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Interesting but simple. Could work decently.

Say I place the A, B, C, D, E at key areas in the arena prefight.
Allow the letters/commands to be set to the hotbar.
When I hit the hotbar the squadron go to those areas sort of works like Mass Effect commands.

The 1,2,3,4,5 would work for minimal adds but if adds number in the eight plus that would be kind of frantic.

I still think gambits ala FFXII should become a thing so alot of that can be preset beforehand. So we can custom tune how we want our squadron to handle things in certain situations. It would allow the AI insight on how they do rotations, when to dodge, when to cure, when to move, when to etc,etc.

http://www.gamesaktuell.de/screensho...7/03/bild8.jpg

I thought there was gonna be some kind of reward for completing all of them but...

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

I thought there was gonna be some kind of reward for completing all of them but...

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You unlock emotes for completing 10 dungeons with them.

I've now done Halatali (with me tanking) and Brayflox (with me healing) and I think the AI needs some serious work. Their positional awareness is nonexistent; the tank and DPS stand in poison pools, the ranged DPS runs up to stand right beside the tank, and the tank himself seems to think his job is to keep the boss facing the group at all times. The DPS don't give the tank time to throw a Flash before the start blasting away, sending mobs running all over the place and causing the tank to accidentally pull more mobs trying to round them up... I could go on.

The AI is hilariously, tragically bad. I don't want to micromanage them; I don't want position actions or advanced commands. I want them to behave the way developers expect players to behave. I know this behavior can be codified because content is clearly developed with it in mind.

I love being able to run with my crew, but please, please: improve the squad AI drastically.

I must say I LAUGH a lot on that dungeons. It is pretty hilarious. A tank who pull without Shield Lob, ignore the mobs, and use Ultimatum ON A WALL. A Archer with a brutal DPS that tank cannot hold aggro, the tank tries to get all, and forgot other enemies. And then the archer flee away and tank follow him. Making pretty fun to see.

I don't mind at all if they don't fix the IA. Really, Yesterday I laughed like never before.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

If tanks were constantly standing around doing nothing once they established aggro I'm sure there'd be more flak to them.

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A tank can just keep doing his enmity combo, because nobody would complain if he overaggro.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

But Alleo, that boils down to a management issue. First off, on the second boss, it doesn't matter if they stand on the electricity. It deals little to no damage to them. You can select the add, click on "engage" and they will burn it in a second. You scroll through the aggro list: Select - Engage. In the last boss, you can pretty much ignore the little flames. Their damage is pathetic.

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I know but they are already running back to the boss so when I click engage it will waste time to have them run back and sometimes they completely ignore it..on the first boss I tried engage with the adds and nobody came..so its feels utterly clunky and at least for me its not fun to micromanage them that much.

In the end I just dont really see the reason why we have the content. Its restricted to certain dungeons, was not really faster than with random people and the constant commands really got on my nerves. The only reason to go into this is to farm some exp so if that was the reason for them, why not just give us exp if we unsynch dungeons? Simply cut the exp down depending on the level you run it and thus people can still level that way. Probably easier to implement than such a complete new system. (And imo a lot more fun)

For squadrons I wish they had truly new instances that we could run them through and that they have a certain competence from the very beginning. I mean I sent them out for months and all of them are at least lvl 50 yet they make mistakes that newer players normally only do. (Now I at least know the reason why they sometimes even cant do low level stuff..) Maybe make the squadron instances like the deep dungeon with unlimited amounts of random floors, with traps and puzzles (that you have to do) and with enemies that are getting harder with a certain amount of floors. This way leveling them up, teaching them stuff and managing them would have felt way better imo. They could introduce new titles, mounts and other stuff for that and it would be at least new. Now you will have some strange A.I players next to you while you run the same dungeons that you already ran x amount of times again.

Quick guide on "How to run ___ dungeon with my squadron?":

• Halatali: don't, because bosses have invul phases and your recruits are too dumb to kill the elementals. Besides, you always forget to activate the switches thingies before the second boss.
• Toto-Rak: don't, because you still don't have your tank stance (see below).
• Brayflox: don't, because it's meh and bosses are a pain.
• Stone vigil: go and wreck everything in 10 minutes.
• Wanderer's palace: don't, the whole place is a mess for squadrons.

Quick guide on "What classes should my recruits be? And what about me?":

• DPS Recruits: Archers. Two of them. Until they get patched.
• Healer Recruit: Conjurer. Because the Grand Company is too poor to give them Job Crystals.
• You: Tank. That's the only way you can ensure the tank (you) keeps the aggro against the archers with your tank stance. Besides, you (hopefuly) won't cleave your party. I'd choose PLD, because you have Sentinel in SV, but whatever suits you.

Quick guide on "What strategy buff should I use on my recruits?":

• Archer 1: Offensive.
• Archer 2:Offensive.
• Healer: Offensive.
• ... Unless you have another strategy which provides more damage buff while leveling Offensive. Anyway, don't go Defensive.

Quick guide on "Will you make a quick guide with some random tips?":

• In SV, all bosses will only target you for their mechanics, as your recuits are considered as pets, and no mechanics in this dungeon target pets.
• Don't forget to open bosses' chests as SV cost 2k seals and you gain ~1k with the chests GC deliveries.
• Don't pull everything like an idiot. Archers are best when focusing a single target. Besides, your healer will DPS if you don't need healing.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

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I haven't had a problem on any of those dungeons with squadrons though. Them attacking invuln targets is kind of a pain but you can solo adds so whatever.

What's up with archers and why are they so good apparently?

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I haven't had a problem on any of those dungeons with squadrons though. Them attacking invuln targets is kind of a pain but you can solo adds so whatever.

What's up with archers and why are they so good apparently?

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I'm not saying you can't do all dungeons with your squadron. But Stone Vigil is definitly the easiest and doesn't require you spamming orders all the time.
And about archers, they use Barrage with a (very) low cooldown. We are talking every 2 to 3 GCDs. This alone makes their DPS way above any other class.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

I'm not saying you can't do all dungeons with your squadron. But Stone Vigil is definitly the easiest and doesn't require you spamming orders all the time.
And about archers, they use Barrage with a (very) low cooldown. We are talking every 2 to 3 GCDs. This alone makes their DPS way above any other class.

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ohh, that's interesting. I did notice my monk was using goad on me almost every pull...seems they just don't follow cooldown rules. That's funny, haha.

I ran my ten dungeons as a healer with a WAR tank + two ARC. I always thought Stone Vigil was a longer dungeon so I didn't run it. Brayflox is super easy though. The biggest threat is your characters getting locked out of boss battles. The trash simply consists of hitting Engage and tossing a heal or two while stoning things. Bosses were pretty much the same but with the odd Disengage/Engage to get them away from the boss room gate.

I've only been trying as tank atm. My only gripe the dps/heals only does single target on Engage. There need to be a separate AoE engage button depending on who the target, with healer still focus on healing party ofc even if target is enemy. I don't mind healer dpsing, just when I press Engage then AI should know something need attention. Disengange is great for dodging but its funny when arc/cnj trying to run towards me, they got caught by the stalker in Wanderer's Palace. I ended up duoing up to last boss with a pgl (ran out of tonic). I like most of it, Engage button reminds me of good tanks who marks their targets in low-level dungeons. It saved most noobs like me from ripping aggro back then.

I switched between Halatali and Stone Vigil for my 10 dungeons. Both were super easy with me tanking. Squats are best emote :3

Possibly the best way to powerlevel your DPS for now. I did some Halatali > Toto-Rak > Brayflox with my MNK and DRG without any problem whatsoever. For some mechanics I need to actually soak some of them.

I've ran this as a Samurai, Red Mage & Warrior and it is definitely easier as a Warrior or any tank I imagine. For sure after clearing each dungeon once, I am only spamming Stone Vigil as it's the only dungeon I can run as a DPS without issue and has high XP. Totorak is also doable as a DPS, but low XP. I might try healer even though I've never healed before, but this might be good practice.

So...I like to think of squadron's from an in-story perspective. It's more fun that way, and I can imagine all the little annoyances Kaiva gets from leading these young Flames through her early adventures. The WoL is the only one that has the echo, so of course they will usually know when an AOE is coming. All the other NPCs...not so much. So I found it hilarious in Halatali that my squadron would constantly attack an invulnerable boss, because they probably think that hitting it hard enough will kill it. And the adds?

...well, I can't defend their mindset on the adds.

Question for those who leveled their troops significantly. Are the NPC getting new gear still while leveling up and if they do and have been glamoured over, do they lose their glamour?

they dont wear gear , only glamours

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Originally Posted by KittyPr

they dont wear gear , only glamours

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the question is do the non-uniques default appearance change after 50.

i think below 50 they changed every 5 levels so would need someone to have a Lv 55 squad member to check.

Is there anybody who can answer my question above? I would like to know should I glamour my squad now or wait until they are level 60, so I don't waste glamour prisms.

Can't confirm, but doubt it would overwrite glamours. Their gear doesn't work the same as normal gear. Kinda more like glamouring over a glamour. Their base glamour might change, but yours will still apply.

Is how I'd expect it to work, anyway. If they even change at all.

actually, I Played my bard and was successful at wonderer's palace. Most of the time I used disengage to run by mobs and pick up the 2nd mob then after I rounded them all up I hit engage. The tank sprang into action and gathered up the mobs and the healer healed like mad then I backed out of the center of the action and dps'd until completion. The tank held and healer healed was quick because I dps'd it myself. Tanking is ughhhhh soo boring. I will try healing it and see if that goes any faster but I don't think it will. At the boss fight the tank wanted to runaround and gather up all the little guys so i just dps'd the boss and hit engage more than once to make the tank, tank the boss and not run around.

Please, please, PLEASE make the treasure hunters in wanderer's palace NPCs and not enemies, you're not supposed to attack them, they're there to distract the tonberry stalker but whenever you engage enemies your tank will run back and try to pick them up letting your healer tank the tonberries, it's a pain in the ass and you can't control it.

https://youtu.be/NsoEt_3VPog
I'm so proud of my squad.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

https://youtu.be/NsoEt_3VPog
I'm so proud of my squad.

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I would like everyone to look at this, and know why Archers/Bards/Machinists aren't allowed to have their Weapon Damage be as high as the the other DPS.