4.1 - The emptiest patch yet.

considering the fact that my raid team sre still on v4, we will be buying a mansion in shirogane, are looking forward to (Ultimate), love hildybran, love the story, I can;t wait for shinryu EX as is my favorite fight in the game currently and the weapons will help my team, don't give half a pile of **** for dungeons so 1 or 5 makes no difference and I coulnd not be more hype for 24-man raid and upgrades to help us progress YES YES THERE'S HECK OF A LOT STUFF in this patch. Also I'm miles hype for the moba stile pvp seems very fun.

OP and everyone complaining are just spoiled there's no other way around that there's just as many if not more stuff tan 2.x and 3.x we just didn't got relic but it's understandable we are getting a complete new mode/zone going with it is not just your regular boring reused grind like they did back then they are putting the effort and people are complaining because they want more effort at the same amount of time and that's not how it works.

so get overyourself take a deep breath and enjoy this patch that seems to bring lots of fun content for eveyrone not only casuals for the first time since the game launch.

It feels a bit small when comparing to 2.1. I'm going to look at the whole patch for both because I don't remember what was held back for 2.1 off hand.

4.1. -New main story quests.
2.1 -New main story quests including a Trial (King Mog HM).

4.1 - Kojin Beast Tribe quests.
2.1 - Sylph and Amalj'aa Beast Tribe quests.

4.1 - Shinryu Ex.
2.1 - Garuda Ex, Titan Ex, Ifrit Ex.

4.1 - Shirogone. House moving and storage added.
2.1 -Housing added (Free Company only) (Mist, Goblet, and Lavender Beds)

4.1 -Rival Wings
2.1- PVP added to the game with the Wolve's Den arena. Renamed The Fold in HW and removed from the game entirely in SB. I'm willing to give this one to 4.1 since the mode didn't last.

4.1 - One dungeon, one 24 man raid.
2.1 - Three dungeons, one 24 man raid.

4.1 - Ultimate Coil, Squadron update, Bard performance, Hildebrand, canals update, qol stuff.
2.1 - Ultima's Bane, Roulettes, aesthetician, Treasure maps, Hildebrand, qol stuff.
How you feel about stuff in this category will likely most strongly colour how you feel about this patch's content. For example someone planning on challenging Ultimate Coil and making up songs on their Bard may feel those are hours of entertainment that are worth more than changing your hair every now and then.

To be fair 2.1 is the biggest patch the game ever had that I can remember so we can't expect everything to live up to it.
2.1 notes if anyone wants to check them out: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7af43f3c43828a

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Just because there are things to do in this game doesn't mean they are engaging or enjoyable.

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Yet the content is still there.

OP claims there's nothing in this patch when there clearly is, both for casual and hardcore players. If none of this is enjoyable to them then they're obviously playing the wrong game.

Always fun to see how fools love to complain about a game they pay for monthly being garbage before the content they say isn't enough has yet to drop... Seriously if it was that much of an issue, why stay? Is it not the height of idiocy to complain about a system that has already been established? Every content announcement is never enough, not challenging enough, not long enough, needs to be nerfed, too long a grind... The ability to understand that not all can be pleased by every decision made by the developers never enters the equation of so many of these self entitled little menaces, one has to wonder what miserable thing they really are in real life... Truly what decadence we must live in that this is what you have to complain about.

How can we actually judge this patch when it /isn't/ even out yet? All we have is text on paper about what will be included, not how long it will take to complete. Likewise we're getting a lot of quality of life upgrades which might seem 'bland' but the population has been asking for, for a long time. Just because we're only getting a raid and a dungeon doesn't mean this patch is lacking in content. It just means it isn't as full of PVE content as you might like.

If you keep accepting less content, then they will continue to give less content.

This is arguably the emptiest patch yet and Ultimate was a waste of time, taking development time to design content for 1% of your population while at the same time failing to produce the same level of content and even failing to deliver content like Eureka which was supposed the big thing to keep people logging into the game until 4.2.

I am predicting we are potentially going to have the biggest drop in active server populations yet if they fail to introduce a relic weapon by 4.15

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Originally Posted by mooferz

Yet the content is still there.

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If you completed the first Mario game the content is still there, you just need to repeat it. It's easy to complete the entire content of a patch during its 3 month duration - even playing super casually. Please elaborate where this content is? A single dungeon which is easily done in 15 minutes, a raid done in 25 minutes?

Emotes? Squads so you can go do dungeons you've already done and can easily do solo?

We'll wait for you to tell us where the content is.

Content with longevity that keeps you on your toes. POTD is the only content that really offered that, Treasure map dungeons were a let down because it's just to much RNG current, you get a map daily or buy it off AH, use it, hope portal spawns, go in portal and then you have to keep hoping you're coin flip always lands on the side you call. It's hard to feel excited about doing those dungeons when you can just as easily spend 4 maps to spawn a portal, go inside, beat first round of mobs, touch door and get booted out. You didn't lose because you're team was bad, you lost because you picked the wrong door, just not fun. I would prefer it if the two doors would enfeeble you or buff you.

Pick Left or Right, You picked left, uh oh you are weighed down for the next room making it harder to dodge AOEs. You picked right? Goodluck! crit rate increased by 25% for the next room.

Why couldn't SE do that instead of a will you be able to continue or not mentality lol.

Other "fun" ones could be Doom, moment you touch door you feel deaths embrace if you don't complete the next room in 5 mins everyone dies lol. Fatigue, TP and MP are reduced by half for next room. Call to Arms, Determination is increased by 15% for the next room. I would feel more excited to do treasure rooms if picking the door was the difference between getting a buff or debuff rather than continuing or getting kicked out.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

If you keep accepting less content, then they will continue to give less content.

This is arguably the emptiest patch yet and Ultimate was a waste of time, taking development time to design content for 1% of your population while at the same time failing to produce the same level of content and even failing to deliver content like Eureka which was supposed the big thing to keep people logging into the game until 4.2.

I am predicting we are potentially going to have the biggest drop in active server populations yet if they fail to introduce a relic weapon by 4.15

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I think many are just overreacting from the trailer they saw, which honestly was one of the poorest presentated ones they made to date.
Everything felt rushed in there and didn't had proper showing they used to do in ARR and HW. And that did put off many here as a result, which may or may not be justified until we actually get our hands on the patch notes.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

If you keep accepting less content, then they will continue to give less content.

This is arguably the emptiest patch yet and Ultimate was a waste of time, taking development time to design content for 1% of your population while at the same time failing to produce the same level of content and even failing to deliver content like Eureka which was supposed the big thing to keep people logging into the game until 4.2.

I am predicting we are potentially going to have the biggest drop in active server populations yet if they fail to introduce a relic weapon by 4.15

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Arguably yes, coz I don't see how you can say all what you just said when the patch isn't even out yet, while spewing numbers not backed with any reaserch (1%? really?).

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I don't get people who use this kind of reasoning.
You're saying that the OP opinion (and anyone who holds a similiar opinion) can only be valid if they have every "capped" and have nothing to do.
By that logic, 95% of the playerbase has no right to talk because most of them don't go on to do end game/savage content.
Just because there are things to do in this game doesn't mean they are engaging or enjoyable.

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It's a valid argument if people like the OP fail to understand the distinction between "nothing to do" and "nothing I want to do". Subtle difference in wording, huge difference in meaning. Not liking the content presented is fine, but it's a disingenuous argument to frame it as if the content doesn't exist at all.

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Originally Posted by Pence

If you completed the first Mario game the content is still there, you just need to repeat it. It's easy to complete the entire content of a patch during its 3 month duration - even playing super casually. Please elaborate where this content is? A single dungeon which is easily done in 15 minutes, a raid done in 25 minutes?

Emotes? Squads so you can go do dungeons you've already done and can easily do solo?

We'll wait for you to tell us where the content is.

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EX Shinryu, Ultimate Coil, beast tribe stuff, MSQ.

It's fine if you don't like the content, maybe you're just bored of the grind and need a break. But saying there's nothing to do is just dumb.

Some people should see what OTHER mmorpgs give you as new content.
Some mmos call 1 new dungeon or a new trial ever 6 months months "content"

Every 6 months....
Every 6 months......

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Originally Posted by eaudaemon

Arguably yes, coz I don't see how you can say all what you just said when the patch isn't even out yet, while spewing numbers not backed with any reaserch (1%? really?).

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There is data from past savage teirs and even with a12s being the easiest yet clear rates were between 1-3% on the majority of servers.

So depending on the difficulty maybe 1/2 of those people will be able to do the Ultimate fight.

If this was a side project that would be fine but we are losing content for this.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

I think many are just overreacting from the trailer they saw, which honestly was one of the poorest presentated ones they made to date.
Everything felt rushed in there and didn't had proper showing they used to do in ARR and HW. And that did put off many here as a result, which may or may not be justified until we actually get our hands on the patch notes.

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Aye, this is problem. Watched the trailer and it felt way emptier than previous patch trailers.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

It's a valid argument if people like the OP fail to understand the distinction between "nothing to do" and "nothing I want to do". Subtle difference in wording, huge difference in meaning. Not liking the content presented is fine, but it's a disingenuous argument to frame it as if the content doesn't exist at all.

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Exactly this. The patch is not empty. just doesn't have enough of the things the OP wants.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

There is data from past savage teirs and even with a12s being the easiest yet clear rates were between 1-3% on the majority of servers.

So depending on the difficulty maybe 1/2 of those people will be able to do the Ultimate fight.

If this was a side project that would be fine but we are losing content for this.

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And where is this "data" again? Coz I've searched and your the only one that I can find that says it. And what crystal ball did you look into that only 1/2 people would be able to do the Ultimate fight? And what makes you think this is a side project coz the patch isn't out yet?

lot's of people complaining have yet to see 1 that says what is actaully less about this patch compared to other patches please don't even dare to say less dungeons.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

It's a valid argument if people like the OP fail to understand the distinction between "nothing to do" and "nothing I want to do". Subtle difference in wording, huge difference in meaning. Not liking the content presented is fine, but it's a disingenuous argument to frame it as if the content doesn't exist at all.

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It's a bad argument. If someone dislikes something, it isn't content for them. That's the equivalent of saying "Go play Lord of Verminion if you're bored!" Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the OP's overall opinion regarding 4.1 but that doesn't mean they can't complain about a lack of content that appeals to them.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Some people should see what OTHER mmorpgs give you as new content.
Some mmos call 1 new dungeon or a new trial ever 6 months months "content"

Every 6 months....
Every 6 months......

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Some MMOs launch with more content at expansion. You want to start measuring from the start? I am not against this patch. A big BUT a lot of this content should have been 4.0 ready and not 4.1. Housing should have been shortly after 4.0 after they were sure servers were stable (haha /cry ). PvP is usally a launch feature for expansions. New daily/repeatable quests are also launch feature after reaching max level. The first tier of weapon upgrades also tied to it. But may not be that special due to scaling. So if you look at it from that angle it is kind of weak.

Also I haven't played the other MMO in years, but did they not get a a whole evolving zone?

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Originally Posted by Pence

Treasure Maps were added in 2.1, The Aquapolis was added in 3.3. Feels like said expansion has happened before.

Apartments only happened 2 patches ago...

There's only 5 dungeons you can run with Squads. You can not get Squads until 47. So you could probably easily solo any dungeon these are used in by this point.

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For 1 job, yes.
Not for all jobs who are still low level

We get:

a new housing district, a new 24 man, a new MOBA styled pvp mode, a new dungeon, super savage, beast tribe

what more do you want? that's pretty standard and has a lot. i don't recall the other patches being particularly better. this is pretty damn good.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

lot's of people complaining have yet to see 1 that says what is actaully less about this patch compared to other patches please don't even dare to say less dungeons.

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Potentially no relic for 1 thing

look at 2.1 patch notes for comparison to what we are getting in this patch, 3 ex primals + Ultima HM + Mog HM, 3 dungeons, 1 raid, 2 beast tribes a new pvp mode, Hildebrande and we got the relic in 2.15, free company housing, treasure hunting was introduced

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7af43f3c43828a

They have been slowly scaling back the content every time and people keep white knighting them for it and accepting it.

Poor Lords of Vermionion and your awful, awful UI. (Seriously why is it the only thing in the game that doesn't have a proper controller layout??)

Super Savage, or, specifically, a mode so hard only the most elite players can complete, is sadly something that is oft requested despite the low turnout to high difficulty content. Insane difficulty was something FFXI was infamous for, so I think it's more bleed from that game along with desiring some real street cred for the game itself and the players that will eventually clear it.

I'm waffling on if it'd be better if Super Savage is cleared in a few weeks or takes a year or two.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Poor Lords of Vermionion and your awful, awful UI. (Seriously why is it the only thing in the game that doesn't have a proper controller layout??)

Super Savage, or, specifically, a mode so hard only the most elite players can complete, is sadly something that is oft requested despite the low turnout to high difficulty content. Insane difficulty was something FFXI was infamous for, so I think it's more bleed from that game along with desiring some real street cred for the game itself and the players that will eventually clear it.

I'm waffling on if it'd be better if Super Savage is cleared in a few weeks or takes a year or two.

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Super Savage will be cleared in under a week by world 1st groups most likely there is no ilvl increase this patch and they are BiS on everything

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

look at 2.1 patch notes

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why don't you compare to 3.1 instead of the patch that released everything that didn't make it in time for the relaunch of the game.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Potentially no relic for 1 thing

look at 2.1 patch notes for comparison to what we are getting in this patch, 3 ex primals + Ultima HM + Mog HM, 3 dungeons, 1 raid, 2 beast tribes a new pvp mode, Hildebrande and we got the relic in 2.15, free company housing, treasure hunting was introduced.

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Mog HM was reused and not really new.
it was new in 1.21, but not in 2.1. Only new were the effect graphics.

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Originally Posted by eaudaemon

And where is this "data" again? Coz I've searched and your the only one that I can find that says it. And what crystal ball did you look into that only 1/2 people would be able to do the Ultimate fight? And what makes you think this is a side project coz the patch isn't out yet?

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Alexander Creator Savage clear (A12S) rates in last column, this was in March before Echo. It's based on the polling all lodestones for the mount since cheeves can be hidden. It's a good estimate, but of course since only one mount drops a week for raid during lockout, there is obviously groups that don't have all 8/8.

It is also a good representation oh how disparate NA/EU vs JP is when it comes to high-end raiding.

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckybanc...9/497c8f0c.jpg

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

why don't you compare to 3.1 instead of the patch that released everything that didn't make it in time for the relaunch of the game.

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2.3 we got 3 dungeons, 1 raid, 1 hm + ex fight, Hildebrande trial, 4 savage raids, front lines pvp and the hunt was added

Edit: 3.1 while marked a downgrade from 2.x series still had more content then 4.1. The 3.1 patch failed because the content flopped and they took such a long time to get it out

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

2.3 we got 3 dungeons, 1 raid, 1 hm + ex fight, Hildebrande trial, 4 savage raids, front lines pvp and the hunt was added

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what is your reluctance to compare apples to apples? 2.3 is not the first patch after an expansion either.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Edit: 3.1 while marked a downgrade from 2.x series still had more content then 4.1. The 3.1 patch failed because the content flopped and they took such a long time to get it out

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more like what? you were so gung-ho to list everything for 2.1 and 2.3 but for 3.1 it's too much effort to actually list?

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Housing should have been shortly after 4.0 after they were sure servers were stable (haha /cry )

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I'm actually very glad they didn't release it on 4.0
Gave me time to come up with more gil for a medium plot

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

what is your reluctance to compare apples to apples? 2.3 is not the first patch after an expansion either.

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There has been a continual downgrade in content since 2.0 and even 3.0 so when 5.0 comes out and they release even less content your going to be okay with it?

Your going to white knight SE no matter what I post so not going to waste my time anymore.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Housing should have been shortly after 4.0 after they were sure servers were stable (haha /cry ).

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Reason for that case: Players were going to be fighting over plots instead of enjoying the expansion's launch; so Yoshi-san told the dev team to hold the houses until everyone has gotten use to the new content.
However, with 4.1 just around the corner, players are preparing for a blood bath, lol.

It's a good patch, it's not my fault you don't do high-end content. You really think us raiders are okay with just weekly clears of O1S-O4S savage for 6 months? Get real.

We get more content, Shinryu Extreme and Coil Ultimate. More content to last.

As I posted for Creator Savage, high-end raiding is almost a decent percentage staple on JP servers, then you get to NA where the clear rates are really low. Yet they made the difficulty about the same as Creator, and yet people still can't clear. Just because you don't like the content, doesn't mean it doesn't matter to a good chunk of people who play this game. Wake up.

I was going to post something bigger about this but... I will pass. There is no way the Devs are going to please everyone at this point when someone decides to bash an entire patch before it's release, again. So, i am going to lie back, grab a drink, and keep reading about people who complaint about everything because they dont have what they wanted to.

To be fair some parts of the game can only be added once.
Also I find that countering ppl argument by saying that they are white knighting the game not beign that much valid one could say the same by telling you are simply hating.
Granted they did fuck it up by delaying Eureka imho, they should've made an HM to compensate but the reaction of the forum is a confirmation of my idea that If SE were to ever so slight derail from the hated formula, ppl would complain regardless.

It's not 'nothing', but it does seem like less and less is being done. I'd be totally fine with them taking off yet another dungeon in development if I saw the resources going elsewhere.

So far I don't see anything that shows they've been using the freed up development time, except perhaps to release more cash shop exclusive items than ever before. 3.1, while generally being frowned upon for diadem and LoV (I did enjoy diadem for a time, as an aside) I could at least see where the development time went when they downgraded from 3 dungeons per large patch to 2.

Perhaps it really is that squadron AI that took the brunt of the effort. Which... probably isn't going to be all that useful, for now.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

It's not 'nothing', but it does seem like less and less is being done. I'd be totally fine with them taking off yet another dungeon in development if I saw the resources going elsewhere.

Perhaps it really is that squadron AI that took the brunt of the effort. Which... probably isn't going to be all that useful, for now.

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Yeah, I think a lot of their focus went into squadrons and a metric crap ton of QoL changes. And the dungeon/raid of course. Housing and the remodeling to certain areas of what we already have no doubt took some time as well, But with all the other things they're adding, it really does add up to be about on par with where we were an expansion ago. Just not things that EVERYONE cares about. 4.15 should add a couple more small things (like the PvP mode I believe), but its a shame Eureka's being pushed back. I'd prefer they do it right though than release it half baked like they did with Diadem.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Potentially no relic for 1 thing

look at 2.1 patch notes for comparison to what we are getting in this patch, 3 ex primals + Ultima HM + Mog HM, 3 dungeons, 1 raid, 2 beast tribes a new pvp mode, Hildebrande and we got the relic in 2.15, free company housing, treasure hunting was introduced

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7af43f3c43828a

They have been slowly scaling back the content every time and people keep white knighting them for it and accepting it.

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patch 2.1 is by far the biggest patch this game ever got, no other patch got even close to it. not even close. how about you compare 2.3 or 2.5 or 3.1 or 3.3 or 3.5 ? odd patchs numbers were always the (catch up or less intersting patches) I believe infact now on even numbered patches we will get 2 dungeons while odds add only 1 of the same level. so please. we didn't got realic because this time around relic are some reused easy grind your life, they are making a legitimate new zone completely dedicate dto the new relics go knows what else they are working on it it's not the same as some ui and numbers on the background do the same old content 3000 times.

we don't even know what this patch will fully bring aside from all they actally showed.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Super Savage will be cleared in under a week by world 1st groups most likely there is no ilvl increase this patch and they are BiS on everything

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I'll be shocked if Angered doesn't have Ultimate dead within 10-20 hours after release.