Dear SE, BLM is great, but please consider the following

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron89

People don't care about "samurai of casters" in savages, they will just take sam if they want no utility dps. There's only one caster spot in static most of the time and this spot is already taken by embolden/instares rdm. Why would someone take blm over rdm there is beyond me.

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why's everybody so serious about a meta comp? that is totally beyond me. you can clear every savage content with every dd combination - even with Mchs on board. those "why should I take x over y?" questions are not better than the PFs which lock certain cls out cause they just want to be half-leeched by overkill dps. - we currently run with sam & blm, brd and smn. rdm surely would be a way better choice but noone of my grp wants to play that braindead cls yet... - so I honestly can't understand all these "meta" or "spot" recommendations what so ever... everybody should just "be able" to play what he/she likes. end of story.

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Originally Posted by Neela

why's everybody so serious about a meta comp? that is totally beyond me. you can clear every savage content with every dd combination - even with Mchs on board. those "why should I take x over y?" questions are not better than the PFs which lock certain cls out cause they just want to be half-leeched by overkill dps.

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Let's look at this from the other side.

Meta side: You can do it as a Machinist, but why do it as a Machinist when the Bard is objectively better? You can do it as a Summoner, but why do it as a Summoner when the Red Mage is objectively better? You kick people from progression parties who aren't giving their A-game, and even then if their A-game isn't up to par with what you need. if the person is making the choice to stick with a class when there is objectively one better in all areas that matter, why would you keep them?

Keep in mind, I mostly agree with the sentiment that every class is capable of clearing savage as it was balanced, but early progression, which people naturally want to do, is hardly that. You have to do wonky stuff to get the necessary stats to survive and min/max as all hell to hit the enrage timers by doing that. And fact of the matter is, that excludes some classes.

because its a game after all and people like different cls –> not just the ones who are the most effective ones - if you manage endcontent with a weaker cls you like there is no reason to switch to a stronger cls you can't get used to just because its stronger or the status quo of balancing "forces" you to do so. I bet 90% of the community haven't even any kind of selfexperience (f.e. on Mch or Smn) with "weaker" cls comps - they just heard and read all the complainer threads and meta-recoms and won't gave others at least the chance to prove their skill on "banned" cls. thats really sad to be honest...

im still trying to get my last 2 HW birds - I can't even find a pf for THAT kind of old farm content which take smns with them - even on that unsync content they just wanna have Sams & Rdms lol...

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

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You do it as a MCH because you enjoy playing MCH. Because you want to play the MCH. Because SMN does not play like RDM and you bloody love how SMN plays. If you really truly care about min-maxing and bleeding edge content then you'll just play the Bard and the RDM. The only thing that matters is that you down the content.

I've been in guilds in World of Warcraft where you were benched if you weren't ideal for fights or didn't switch your class/spec up. I left those raiding guilds. I could complain and pray to the forums that the devs would make Frost Mage the greatest dps of all time that was perfect for every fight in the game, or I could just search for a guild that wasn't bench/kick happy. Turns out there were quite a ton of them and I still had successful and fun raiding times with my preferred class.

Just play what you like and stop overthinking it.

In all honesty, BLM is fine.

Our DPS is ridiculously high right now and mobility is something triple cast, swift cast, manipulation and between the lines can easily take care of and it feels incredibly rewarding. Take O3S for exemple, it looks like a hell fight for a blm right? Well no! I love doing that fight as blm and hardly miss any cast at all unless I get stunned or transformed into a pig. And please no don't change triple cast, it's perfect as it is!

The only thing BLM needs (and all the other casters as matter of fact) is a surecast fix. Oh and raise for a BLM doesnt make any sense at all.

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Originally Posted by Daws

You do it as a MCH because you enjoy playing MCH. Because you want to play the MCH. Because SMN does not play like RDM and you bloody love how SMN plays. (..) The only thing that matters is that you down the content.

I've been in guilds in World of Warcraft where you were benched if you weren't ideal for fights or didn't switch your class/spec up. I left those raiding guilds. I could complain and pray to the forums that the devs would make Frost Mage the greatest dps of all time that was perfect for every fight in the game, or I could just search for a guild that wasn't bench/kick happy. Turns out there were quite a ton of them and I still had successful and fun raiding times with my preferred class.

Just play what you like and stop overthinking it.

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Absofuckingloudly +1 !!

it's entertainment not sports... im glad that im not the only one who think this way - thx Daws, you are very welcome :3

These "small" changes would make BLM a tad too strong, which you know they are...
I mean, look at this:
99 "Censored" Senpai 17.52% 2.00m 99.25% >4,813.3<

Its a BLM on Alte Roite, which is a super movey fight with small stay still intervals...
Yeah, its probably one of the 99% with HQ crafted equipments, but with that guy pulling 5k+ , there would be no reason to even bring a SAM which also has no utility and then you would have peoples complaining.

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Originally Posted by AmandaLashaquoa

These "small" changes would make BLM a tad too strong, which you know they are...
I mean, look at this:
99 "Censored" Senpai 17.52% 2.00m 99.25% >4,813.3<

Its a BLM on Alte Roite, which is a super movey fight with small stay still intervals...
Yeah, its probably one of the 99% with HQ crafted equipments, but with that guy pulling 5k+ , there would be no reason to even bring a SAM which also has no utility and then you would have peoples complaining.

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?? Alte Roite is literally a dummy fight

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Originally Posted by Daws

I've been in guilds in World of Warcraft where you were benched if you weren't ideal for fights or didn't switch your class/spec up. I left those raiding guilds. I could complain and pray to the forums that the devs would make Frost Mage the greatest dps of all time that was perfect for every fight in the game.

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I mean, LK and beyond they set about ensuring most, if not all, class specs could be part of a raid, so Warcraft LK+ really isn't the best example to use there.

Vanilla and BC? GTFO. Sorry, that's just how it worked. You can play your own way in BC Karazhan, but if you're coming into Sunwell, you better be Fire, or you get to sit with the 'respeccing is too expensive' players on the sidelines.

That's how progression works.

I need to reiterate, I agree that all classes can (and should) be able to clear Savage as it stands, but there are still objectively better choices, and that is what needs to be remedied.

That includes cases where Black Mages sit at the top by a large margin. Playing what you want shouldn't be a detriment to the party.

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Originally Posted by Osh1mA

?? Alte Roite is literally a dummy fight

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Well, V2S is EVEN MORE of a dummy fight and I don't think V3S is as movey as any of the previous two, I don't know about V4S but I can't bring Susan EX into this discussion because its "outdated" by now and DPS doesn't matter in that fight, but how well you can execute the mechanics.

I feel like most of the responders didn't even read the OP since my last response, so let me clear some things up.

My raise suggestion would cost zero MP and would be off-GCD, like using any buff, but have 180 second recast. BLM cannot have a GCD based raise with its MP table, so this solution puts it on the map without making it overpowered. Hell, make it 300 second recast if you want, it just needs the ability to save the healers (in particular) like the other two have. The lore is great, but in the end the mechanics/execution/toolkit are all that matters, which is why I mentioned that it could be made to fit with the lore with some imagination, hence black magic.

To everyone asking for potency increases, that would absolutely break the class as it is already very strong. The only potency adjustments that would be warranted would be +5% damage to the umbral hearts, since Galvuu outlined in their post that using Blizzard IV is in fact a PPS loss, which needs to be fixed.


At risk of sounding like a broken record, in a tier that favors mobility, mobility will be king. I'm no stranger to plan-ahead movement and "turreting" (as mentioned), but more, please, in the shape of surecast while moving and reduced aetherial manipulation recast. Why try to take a "raw DPS" class and do less than 10% more than a class that has excellent mobility/utility?

Also whoever said my thunder change would be broken, yes, it would definitely be strong, but I'd personally rather them nerf the potency of the dot and the hit and make it more consistent than pray to RNGsus for procs, so it's just an idea to roll around in the noggin.

Quick stupid ideas:
> Have b4 take 10 seconds off the AM recast timer
> Umbral heart will allow you to run while casting but it will increase the cast time by 25% butIF you chose run.
> Let Leylines stay active for 20 seconds even after the effect ended so you can between the lines more often.
> Foul grants you a 'you can run around while casting' stack which is consumed after the next spell. So probably F3, B4 or hardcast thunder.

More QoL than anything.
> Casting Fire 1 when in umbral 3 should not eat my stacks but give 1 fire stack instead

No, making an immobile class mobile is what would break the class.
Giving a job designed around being stationary a bunch of abilities that do not match that design by allowing it to run is what would make it a balancing nightmare (something something identity).

I don't want to sound harsh, but if you're playing this job correctly, you do not need more mobility tools.
If you check the Savage logs, not only are Black Mages really high in dps, but we have really high uptime.
We match melee uptime in O3S. The fight where we have to run around in many panels.
In the "tier where mobility is king" we are amongst the highest in dps uptime.
This job absolutely does not need more mobility tools if very skilled Black Mages match melee in dps uptime in movement heavy fights.
What it needs is perfect planning, as it always did.
(Why would anyone Blizzard in AF or Fire in UI anyway...? If you make such a crucial mistake in your rotation, then you absolutely should be punished for it, like any melee is punished for breaking a combo)

EDIT: We had something like this before, just the other way around. WM for Bard in HW. Which made them stationary (and they hated it). What many people are suggesting here is grab the immobile Black Mage and give it "mobility" for the sake of ease- because then you don't need to be proactive (plan ahead) and can be reactive (just "wing it"). What's puzzling is that you can, well, play Bard or Red Mage for this sorta gameplay. It's not like you need to play the turret if you don't like turret-ing.

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Originally Posted by Daws

I've been in guilds in World of Warcraft where you were benched if you weren't ideal for fights or didn't switch your class/spec up. I left those raiding guilds. I could complain and pray to the forums that the devs would make Frost Mage the greatest dps of all time that was perfect for every fight in the game, or I could just search for a guild that wasn't bench/kick happy. Turns out there were quite a ton of them and I still had successful and fun raiding times with my preferred class.

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Lets be real, the meta in this game is usually completely silly. People didn't get benched in WoW until truly pressing Mythic content which is dramatically more difficult than anything in FFXIV, also even the most balanced specs in WoW tend to swing wider than the highs and lows of FFXIV.

(To be fair to WoW, it has three specs per class, set bonuses, trinkets, enchants, artifacts, etc, just alot more moving parts to make balance harder)

blm does not need rais or cure.., if any thing extra, than a slight magical buff, so there can be a real merite in having 3 caster comps..

sam should be = blm on the dps scale (both no utility).., and not just on some blm frindly fights, .. if not even leaning towards blm>sam due to the majority of physical buffs

and comps/metas do ffing matter, just the other day i was kicked out if a party just when it filled, to be replaced by a rdm "we can get a rdm, bye"

and some parts if blm are still broken.

The main thing BLM needs is an incentive to produce spend umbral hearts. Right now, B4 is only sometimes useful on single targets, and when you use B4 on multiple targets you just immediately cast Flare to burn all your hearts at once. Instead, you should benefit each time you spend 1 or more hearts, such that F2 F2 Flare is a sensible AoE sequence and B4 is always attractive on single targets.

My idea: Foul takes 60s to charge rather than 30, but each time you spend any number of umbral hearts you get +10s of charge time.

Also it'd be nice if umbral hearts made more of a mathematical difference themselves, like if they halved cast time or reduced a fire spell's cost down to UI3 level rather than just to its neutral value.

"B4/umbra ice on single target" and "losing astral ice when casting fire 2" are 2 broken parts of blm..

unless we are forced to do B4 now, due to too much spellspeed and not getting the mana ticks -.-'

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

"B4/umbra ice on single target" and "losing astral ice when casting fire 2" are 2 broken parts of blm..

unless we are forced to do B4 now, due to too much spellspeed and not getting the mana ticks -.-'

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when casting fire 1'

(why the f..k is there no edit possibility on my mobile?)

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Originally Posted by Ferrinus

Thoughts

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I think B4 should just go up in potency since B4 is the problem. I posted this in the other thread...

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Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

If continued use of B4 is the problem because it is a dps loss, all SE needs to do is make it so that every use of UH increases the potency of the next B4 in relation to the level of Fire used. The numbers should make the next B4 equal to the average of what was used. So F4x3 makes the next B4 hit like a F4. If F4x2 + F1 equals the average. This would make skipping UH and dropping Enochian punishing and working the rotation as intended quite rewarding.

Next, just a thought...
If you want to make it OP, B4 could take on the properties if the fire used as well, that way, F2 and Flare could turn B4 into an AOE... 1 -2 AOE UH can give B4 the depreciating next target mechanic and 3 AOE UH can give flat damage to every target...

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How about we don't completely tilt a job into ridiculous territory in order for it to be "viable" for, at the moment, three bosses (V1 savage is a joke.)

BLM is wonderful in 99% of the current content, if top end progression is bothering you that much, use your RDM for that 1% of content.

I don't think they're looking for universal role parity.
They want things to be unique, not everything the same with a different skin.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I don't think they're looking for universal role parity.
They want things to be unique, not everything the same with a different skin.

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*looks over at the tanks*

JohnCena.jpeg

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Originally Posted by Llugen

I feel like most of the responders didn't even read the OP since my last response, so let me clear some things up.

My raise suggestion would cost zero MP and would be off-GCD, like using any buff, but have 180 second recast. BLM cannot have a GCD based raise with its MP table, so this solution puts it on the map without making it overpowered. Hell, make it 300 second recast if you want, it just needs the ability to save the healers (in particular) like the other two have. The lore is great, but in the end the mechanics/execution/toolkit are all that matters, which is why I mentioned that it could be made to fit with the lore with some imagination, hence black magic.

To everyone asking for potency increases, that would absolutely break the class as it is already very strong. The only potency adjustments that would be warranted would be +5% damage to the umbral hearts, since Galvuu outlined in their post that using Blizzard IV is in fact a PPS loss, which needs to be fixed.


At risk of sounding like a broken record, in a tier that favors mobility, mobility will be king. I'm no stranger to plan-ahead movement and "turreting" (as mentioned), but more, please, in the shape of surecast while moving and reduced aetherial manipulation recast. Why try to take a "raw DPS" class and do less than 10% more than a class that has excellent mobility/utility?

Also whoever said my thunder change would be broken, yes, it would definitely be strong, but I'd personally rather them nerf the potency of the dot and the hit and make it more consistent than pray to RNGsus for procs, so it's just an idea to roll around in the noggin.

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I think the issues is more that your philosophy of the class conflicts with theirs than that they aren't considering what you're saying. The opponents of your ideas want BLM to be a turret that focuses purely on damage and strongly rewards fight knowledge and positioning. The changes you suggest, while not necessary completely breaking from that, definitely move away from it.

When people were "asking for potency increases", they were essentially saying "if the job is not viable it needs to have it's damage buffed until it is" since they were operating under the (now proven false) assumption that black mages were not offering competitive damage.

Ultimately though, black mages are putting out fantastic and competitive DPS despite the movement-heavy encounters and despite the focus on melee-heavy comps. This is also in progression stuff, which black mage's playstyle is particularly bad at. Once people get more comfortable with content and gear up more, I expect to see them do even better. At the same time, when people move from thinking "how can we survive to the end of this encounter" to "how can we clear this as fast as possible", red mage's rez is going to become far less valuable and black mages damage is going to become far more desirable.

RDM is only more picked right now because of raise and it not being a SMN. It just the progression cycle. Once people suck less and move to farming/speed killing, BLM will be picked over RDM becuse BLM is he SAM of casters. We don't need no stinky raise. Leave that to the chumps that need a reason to exist since they don't have big dick DPS like us.

Personnally,
I don't want raise (not my philosophy, not my job)
I don't want more mobility, I'm a BLM for god sake, i have to deal with fight pattern and use the tools at my disposal to cope with it
A magic vulnerability applied on foes, why not
A reduced Conversion cooldown time, why not
A little RDM nerf, yes
Big buff for SMN yes...

I so much like my job since 3.x. I would just like others to trust BLM more ;-).
RDM is so easy it gets boring...

I think it's fine as is. Verraise's utility is kind of overrated tbh. By the time we need that many raises, we're probably just going to wipe it anyways and start over.

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Originally Posted by Thorbot

I think it's fine as is. Verraise's utility is kind of overrated tbh. By the time we need that many raises, we're probably just going to wipe it anyways and start over.

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I agree so much. It's nice to have when the healer(s) is/are dead or if you want to preserve a healers mana. But it really is overrated. If ppl die too much ur not gnna make enrage timer anyway.

Also Verraise costs a lot of mana & RDM is quite mana hungry so it's hard to spam Verraise too much anyway.