1 account buying 14 houses in 1 ward.

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Originally Posted by Risu0042

Part of me wants to organize a sit in on their ward? overpopulate their ward preventing them from being able to zone into it. i'm not sure how many people that would be but their has been times where i have not been able to zone into a zone because of over crowding.

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You can no longer make characters on Mateus during prime time. The server is no longer preferred, it's full!

I'm fully expecting Yoshi-P and the community moderators/GMs to reach out to the couple in question and request they give up their houses with full reimbursement. I'm guessing this is the only thing they can do now, going through the dirt and out of the way to meticulously compensate the couple for the time and money invested. And no, just adding more wards is not gonna work, it would cost SE way too many real life resources to add those wards. They simply cannot do this, especially from a financial point of view (and having a lot of money doesn't mean you should spend it recklessly). On top of that, it would incite more people to try and do this in the hopes of forcing SE to do things. It's Pavlov there really.

But let's be honest, I think we can all agree the game was definitely not designed for one person to have multiple house. It if was, we wouldn't be limited to a house per character to begin with but instead would have systems in place that actively allow for the purchase of multiple houses, at least no restrictions in place. They actively put designs in meant to prevent you from buying multiple houses, incomplete as they are. This should tell people one part of the intended design, the other being just being proper manners, ethics. SE's design leaves a lot to be desired for, sure, and that's where the big fault is, but people really can't deny it was sort of obvious what the intention of the design was. Nobody can righteously deny the intent of the design was clear and getting 28 houses through alts clearly is circumvention of said design. TL;DR - the entirety of design in place was one which inhibited the purchase of multiple plots on one character, this is all the hints you know to know about the developers' intentions of use. Circumventing by buying on alts, while possible, goes against said obvious intention. It's what's called a design oversight.

Ethics people. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Let's work together to make this game nice for everyone, it's a massive online game after all. SE should fully reimburse the couple for reclaiming property and we should all learn to pay more attention to proper manners. Even though the situation was caused by SE, we haven't exactly been behaving properly either, have we now? Treat each other a bit kinder, not like they're after your life or trying to dismantle your raison d'etre, keep things constructive and in the spirit of co-operation. In the end it's all a videogame.

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Originally Posted by Valenth

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Or... and hear me out... the design is set up to have one house per character/ fc. And it's working as intended. You're calling for them to lose a shitton of hard work and saying people should be nicer? Only niceness when it benefits you, I suppose.

Ethics aren't in play, here. No one needs a house - like you said, in the end, it's all a videogame.

only 14? lol

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

And it's working as intended.

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Could have fooled me considering Square Enix doesn't undestand how adding more wards work for each housing zone. If people look at the interface for teleporting to specific ward, you'll notice that it was originally planned and built to skip to next ward page once it gets past like 50 Ward. So instead of blaming players, it's really this company's terrible management from increasing more wards every patch. It's been 3 years and they haven't really gone past 12 wards which is quite a shameful display.

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Originally Posted by Valenth

But let's be honest, I think we can all agree the game was definitely not designed for one person to have multiple house. It if was, we wouldn't be limited to a house per character to begin with but instead would have systems in place that actively allow for the purchase of multiple houses, at least no restrictions in place. They actively put designs in meant to prevent you from buying multiple houses, incomplete as they are. This should tell people one part of the intended design, the other being just being proper manners, ethics.

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Well, if we're being honest here... some idiots who have been actively defending these house hoarders would disagree that ethics aren't a factor here and that the system is "working as intended" - I think it's fair to say the majority of us agree that one person does not need 20+ houses. If that's the case, one character could snag them up easily. Otherwise, why else would you need to create an alt and transfer money to it to purchase the house? Not QUITE working as intended due to the developers oversight. But sure. Working as programmed. Lets go with that as it gives hoarders a pass.

Of course the same people would say "Well if it's just a video game then why complain about not having a house if it's just that?"

Well, if it's just a video game, what's the big deal with letting some of those hoarded houses go? Again, you know, because it's just a video game. I'll just sit back and watch this unfold. I doubt the developers are going to keep quiet about this much longer.

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Originally Posted by Sonikku13

Second, housing feels more realistic in FFXIV. Neighborhoods have some people instead of one house and only NPCs. It's great to meet people to socialize.

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Other than the rare FC party the wards on my system are dead. I have seen one player in my ward since I bought my house and to be honest it was kind of creepy as they sat down beside me without a word being said. Going to instanced housing with a common area that contains all of the amenities would actually make it feel more alive as you would see people much like you see in the cities.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

Well, if we're being honest here...

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working within intended mechanics is quite separate from being a considerate player. However, what most of us are debating is whether or not the players who DID "horde" should lose what they acquired through SE action.
I say no. It's not their fault the devs didn't consider that people could do this. They need to come up with a solution that allows people to have housing, but doesn't take away from those who spent their time and effort building up what they have.
I don't think people who have multiple houses are being very considerate of others, but I don't think they are required to and don't think they should be punished via drastic account manipulation for that.
nobody NEEDS 20 houses.You don't NEED a house. They are nice to have and deepen the experience, I enjoy the heck out of mine but I worked hard for it ( checking housing wards everyday to see if plots were available through auto destruction and saving GIL to buy them when they showed up at full price) . Leveling all your alts to house level isn't nothing, it took effort, and the houses weren't free. They all represent lots of actual hours put into this game, paid for just like the rest of us. The fact that these people put effort into this particular goal means, to me, that they earned what they have and taking it away because some people think it's "unfair" is not right.

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Originally Posted by Aldotsk

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Oh no, you're not wrong about that. I just meant mechanically, the '1 per character' is working as it's supposed to, rather than just the housing itself. Housing is broken, 100%.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

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I think it's funny that some idiots are defending the whiners who refused to transfer until it was free and THEN started whining about housing. You can think it's fair to say, and you'd likely be wrong. Your random aspersions to numbers of people who "agree that one person..." etc? Yeah, that's pulled out of a place that's best not discussed in polite company. The reason you would need to create an alt is so you have to actually put effort into getting the houses. You know, since a level 1 character can't just buy a house, you have to hit a level cap to do it. So that way, people can't JUST transfer money to a level 1 account and pounce on housing for flipping and the like.

Not an oversight, IMO.

I used 'just a video game' as a counter to the point of it just being a video game, and how people shouldn't take it seriously. The big deal is that you're asking people to give up a lot of time and effort that was put into acquisition. You're literally asking to take time from these people for no cost to you. It is just a video game, which means whatever we deem as important to ourselves is what's true. They found it important to get that many houses, they put in the effort when others refused to for whatever reason, so they get to keep those houses until SE changes the rules.

I still fully expect SE to do nothing about the system - they haven't for years now with house flipping, etc. My guess is they will let it go for a while, because as soon as 4.1 hits and the Kugane housing is released, all the people whining about it now will have housing, and then goes the rounds of "got mine lol." People only care when it inconveniences them.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

Other than the rare FC party the wards on my system are dead. I have seen one player in my ward since I bought my house and to be honest it was kind of creepy as they sat down beside me without a word being said. Going to instanced housing with a common area that contains all of the amenities would actually make it feel more alive as you would see people much like you see in the cities.

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I would honestly prefer this going forward. Ideally with the old wards being retained a 'legacy' systems but frankly at this point I'm find with people just being reimbursed plus interest and them scrapping the whole system.

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Originally Posted by Tinibou

The worse housing in the whole MMO history... welcome in FFXIV

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You nailed it, THE WORST!

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Most MMOs don't even HAVE housing, let alone a system as detailed as FFXIV.

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Wrong. Most do and they are way above this game.

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Originally Posted by Besame

Wrong. Most do and they are way above this game.

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I hope you don't mean WoW garrisons, the only really comparable mmo to FF14 when it comes to quality.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

Other than the rare FC party the wards on my system are dead. I have seen one player in my ward since I bought my house and to be honest it was kind of creepy as they sat down beside me without a word being said. Going to instanced housing with a common area that contains all of the amenities would actually make it feel more alive as you would see people much like you see in the cities.

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My ward in the beds is full but void of people. been the same since I joined the game. Instances housing would make it so everyone could have a house and keep it open or not too public viewing.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I hope you don't mean WoW garrisons, the only really comparable mmo to FF14 when it comes to quality.

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WoW garrisons were basically FF's squadron system fused with a ghost town full of npcs with almost zero customisation to the point that everyone's garrison looked the same. You didn't even have your own bed to sleep in. It was horrendous on multiple levels. Great idea, abysmally terrible execution.

Honestly when it comes to housing from other games I mostly hear about how availability is far better than FF but the customisation rarely comes close.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I hope you don't mean WoW garrisons, the only really comparable mmo to FF14 when it comes to quality.

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I am pretty sure she meant most MMORPGs that are new generation post 2012 made. WoW still is using same engine since 2005 just with vamped up graphics. But their focus was never really based on housing or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Aldotsk

I am pretty sure she meant most MMORPGs that are new generation post 2012 made. WoW still is using same engine since 2005 just with vamped up graphics. But their focus was never really based on housing or whatever.

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You are correct Ald, although even SWtOR has this beat by a long ways in style, access to players, item amounts and the ability to gain special deco in most dungeons.

Man I have nothing to say I haven't said on other threads but.

Besame. Your avatar haunts me. It's just.. HAUNTING. WHERE DID HER EYEBROWS GO?! WHERE ARE THEY?!

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

Blah Blah Blah

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You talk a lot out of your ass for someone who apparently also has issues reading things, or at the very most, likes to assume. Since you like to name call people at the end of some of your arguments (Bye Felicia? Sick meme's bro) I guess I'm not finished this discussion with you.

Lets clarify some things.

I never once said or implied that the 28+ house hoarders should be punished in any sense. Not even the clowns who buy them up to sell them privately for 1000% mark up or etc. What I do support is full intervention from S-E and full reimbursement to those players who have multiple housing plots on the same account. Do you think that S-E is going to allow two people to hog up an entire housing ward/data center because of that sense of entitlement those two individuals feel? You'd be delusional to think S-E is going to give them a pat on the bum, say "good job! All your hard work paid off! Have a unique title because you're special!" and ignore that two people are using up an entire resource? Since S-E were the ones who said that housing wards take up an immense amount of resources.

You also assume that some of us (or assume me anyways) do not have houses. I have a mansion that I share with my FC mates. I don't need a house. I've been fighting this fight for a long time now for fairness of other players and FCs who want to benefit from housing. People like you downplay other people that state "housing isn't a NEED" which in itself is a pretty petty and scummy thing to do.

Just a game eh? That's awesome, give up half of your plots then to FCs who want one. Oh you won't because Paissa houses are ugly? Oh ok. (Sadfacepuppyeyes)

I say those people who hoard them should hold onto them until S-E does finally intervene. I also support 1 personal and one FC house per per world character maximum. You have a bunch of characters on the same server, choose the best one to have the houses. Done. Want more houses? Buy more accounts since you like to dual box.

The housing situation has been ignored for far too long and I would like to believe with all the traction this subject has been getting as of late, it'll be a matter of time before Square-Enix gets off their butts and address this as they should. I would like to predict that they're going to address Kugane housing before it drops. I doubt it's a simple matter of just dropping twelve wards and telling people to go to town.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

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I mean, I could have said 'Bye Maiko' but it wouldn't have had the same dismissive tone as you were trying to give to me, so. Whatevs. I wouldn't really call that 'name calling,' but hey, whatever.

The implication that they should have their houses removed from them = punishment. Unless SE can suddenly give vouchers for the hours of life spent doing what they did, a gil compensation isn't going to cut it. It's hilarious that you use the phrase 'entitlement.' They are entitled to what they worked for, nothing more, nothing less. They are as entitled to those plots as someone is entitled to the mount they unlocked after running x runs of whatever-the-hell to get said mount. I never said SE should reward them. Just leave them alone. Those people used a resource when no one else was. The kicker here is that housing took up those resources regardless of when they were owned or not - so these two people buying up a ward actually did SE a favor - at least the ward was in use, rather than taking up server space for nothing.

I don't assume anything about you. When I say "you" with regards to house ownership or anything else, it's general 'you.' After all, you're on Excalibur ( according to your profile here ) which means you don't have a dog in the fight on Mateus at all.

Again, the 'just a game' applies one way. Because it's just a game, that means it's not a need. It's not a need for them, either, but they earned it, so they can choose to do with it what they please. I personally support instanced housing, because if it -is- a need, then everyone should have access to it, otherwise people who have one are just 'depriving a resource' from all the people that don't have one, right? It's funny - I don't have a house at all, and I'm fully in support of the people who buy as many as they want / can.

I'd love to see the housing situation improve, but not at the expense of players who put in a lot of time and effort to get what they have. Though honestly, with SE's track record on this issue, I would be really surprised if they -didn't- just drop the Kugane wards and tell everyone to go to town.

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

After all, you're on Excalibur ( according to your profile here ) which means you don't have a dog in the fight on Mateus at all.

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Mateus? No. The entire game? Oh you bet I do. Except it's not so much a dog as it's a rabid wolf chalk full of rabies. You imply this is a Mateus problem. Excalibur is currently dealing with the same issues with house hoarders except two of them are botters and one of them is a confirmed gil seller. Despite showing evidence, video etc to S-E, nothing has been done to this person or the farm botter for that matter. Hyperion was also no different either and I was in that server since Beta. It only got bad when two or three groups decided they were housing barons and wanted to turn a profit on them.

This isn't just a Mateus problem. This is a game-wide problem.

Comparing mounts to plots is a really bad example. Mounts are an unlimited supply. Houses, not so much. You can at least farm mounts with proper groups and time even with low drop rates. You also don't need an alt to circumvent a limitation to getting a mount either, so again your point is a really bad comparison. There's also no drop rates on housing either.

Again, them "earning" those houses in a ward that's barely been up for a year is a stretch. They earned the cash for them. They chose to use that cash to make alts and buy plots with them. Sure, won't argue that tenacity but at some point this negative attention was bound to happen and if they expected no feedback from other Mateus players new and old then they're daft for it. Even more daft for having an interview with a known internet magazine and saying the things they did. As I said, it'll be a matter of time (a long time maybe) before an audit is done and S-E goes "Yeah... two subs owing 28 houses on a data center. That's gotta get fixed" - I'm hoping the extended delay of the Kugane plots from 2 weeks after launch to estimated time of 4.1 was hopefully for a strategy to be in place to deal with their own blunders and to not repeat the same mistake.

Anyone who also argues that you "don't NEED a house" can also suck a fat juicy lemon. It's a function placed for everybody to enjoy - you don't get to downplay others who want a house while defending those who have all the houses because they have fat stacks and unlimited free time on their hands.

They do need to bring in a limit. 1 house and 1 fc house per account per world. Heck maybe 1 house 1 apartment 1 fc house per account per world. I understand no one was buying the housing at the time but owning an entire ward between two players is ridiculous. Also Selfish, even if people didn't buy them at that point housing is limited as a resource and would be something in demand.

Square should just tell them to pick one house each and then do the same as if you loose you house through not logging in. Full refund stuff put in housing guard with 45 days for them to pick it up.

The englishmen came to America and said, "This, this, and that are mine now. Why? Because the royalty said I could have whatever I want as long as I can take it and hold it. It's free for the taking after all, and I have lots of resources to use to make it mine." The native americans stared, stunned and amazed that anyone would want so much land for themselves. They had thought there was land enough for all the people, at least until some came along and showed them just how little is really available when someone can take so much for themselves.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

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I'm not about the life of hoarding houses to flip. That's against TOS, and so I'm against it. If you look at what I've been arguing about, it's been specific to the Mateus two who are often cited as the biggest problems in this, when they aren't.

The mounts / plots is not a direct comparison. My comparison is specific to time spent, because that's the thing people tend to forget. It's not just the gil spent, it's the time invested in it. Like I said, I'm 100% behind finding a fix, I just don't think that the two Mateus players should be foisted on pikes to get there. ( Technically if you want more than one of a specific kind of mount, you would need an alt, but that's semantic. ) The comparison was less the item comparison, and more the effort part, because people say "make them give up the plots, but compensate them" as though gil would be an adequate compensation for a year's time.

They earned the cash, and they leveled the alts to get them. The old, native Mateus players never had an issue with it, and the new ones only had a problem because... well, frankly, they got screwed by the rush. The old Mateus players knew there was still hundreds of plots open when the other two went to get their ward. I have no sympathy for the new Mateus players who took advantage of a free service and then were sad because they didn't get a house on top of it.

I didn't realize the Kotaku thing was actually an interview - I read it, and I thought Kotaku was just quoting things from their tumblr response. They said that stuff on tumblr because at that point, it'd been a source of constant harassment. People snap eventually, and if all they did was say some mean stuff, then oh well.

The argument of not needing a house, again, is specific to gameplay. I don't have a house, and I can do pretty much anything I want in game. I say the need isn't there because it isn't. I also say that the two don't -need- their 28 houses, but they have them nonetheless, and it's up to them what to do with them ( until SE does something about it. )

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

The mounts / plots is not a direct comparison. My comparison is specific to time spent, because that's the thing people tend to forget. It's not just the gil spent, it's the time invested in it. Like I said, I'm 100% behind finding a fix, I just don't think thatthe two Mateus players should be foisted on pikes to get there. ( Technically if you want more than one of a specific kind of mount, you would need an alt, but that's semantic. ) The comparison was less the item comparison, and more the effort part, because people say "make them give up the plots, but compensate them" as though gil would be an adequate compensation for a year's time.

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The same arguement can be given to those who lose there house due to automatic plot release. people lose there plot for not entering for a certain number of days. I bet half there plots arn't in use and only get entered to stop the auto. So how come there 'precious memories' get priority over people who maybe lost there house due to not being able to afford to play for two months or real life stopping them. What prioritizes there memories over the ones fc could be made making better use out of that land.

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

They earned the cash, and they leveled the alts to get them. The old, native Mateus players never had an issue with it, and the new ones only had a problem because... well, frankly, they got screwed by the rush. The old Mateus players knew there was still hundreds of plots open when the other two went to get their ward. I have no sympathy for the new Mateus players who took advantage of a free service and then were sad because they didn't get a house on top of it.

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So people who used the free transfer to move from possible friends to help with the population on overcrowded servers don't deserve housing while 2 people. 2 PEOPLE get to hoard an entire ward and won't even consider giving up plots. sorry i don't get you logical taught. I would be more sympathetic to them if they actually showed some consideration to giving up land to people who have moved over or joined the server. cause that something that would of happened be it a free transfer or people joining to play with friend with the expansion.

lets move it away from housing in a degree. There is limited drinks in a party. Me and one other person grab all of them and don't share. You don't need the drink and I have been at this party as long as you have. so by your logic it's fair... no I'm an asshole hoarding all the drinks selfishly.


These two are being selfish and while I know SE won't step in they should consider giving up plots or face being demonized by the playerbase. If your going to be a selfish asshole prepared to be treated like one.

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Originally Posted by Kogekigami

The same arguement can be given to those who lose there house due to automatic plot release. people lose there plot for not entering for a certain number of days.

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No it cannot, not at all.

While I don't agree with the current system for inactive housing reclamation, the two people on Mateus are actively keeping their plots occupied because they continuously play the game. Its in no way a comparative issue.

People with RL and subscription issues who lose the time investment to a reclaimed house, while unfair are not in the same boat as people actively maintaining their plots having them removed for not doing anything that is against the ToS and being reimbursed with gil that would have gone into housing anyway, and even then if they were able to purchase almost an entire ward between the two of them something tells me gil is of little consequence.

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Originally Posted by Kogekigami

So people who used the free transfer to move from possible friends to help with the population on overcrowded servers don't deserve housing while 2 people. 2 PEOPLE get to hoard an entire ward and won't even consider giving up plots. sorry i don't get you logical taught. I would be more sympathetic to them if they actually showed some consideration to giving up land to people who have moved over or joined the server. cause that something that would of happened be it a free transfer or people joining to play with friend with the expansion.

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Two people who intentionally picked a well known dead server long before SE ever hinted at any server transfer incentives who then spent a large amount of time, money, and effort to accomplish what they did?

Also lets not pretend that players transferred off of large pop servers like Balmung and Gilgamesh for purely altruistic reasons as if they were some grand martyrs making the ultimate sacrifice. These forums were littered with complaints about 4k+ multi hour long log in queues as well as many instances and zones either constantly being locked or constantly crashing, in addition to the already existing long time complaints concerning many housing wards being completely full for years on end with no chance of vacant plots in sight.

The majority of players who jumped ship from super high pop servers did so because at the end of the day they saw that it would be a positive gain to their playing experience, not because they were doing SE or the rest of the playerbase a favor.

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Originally Posted by Kogekigami

lets move it away from housing in a degree. There is limited drinks in a party. Me and one other person grab all of them and don't share. You don't need the drink and I have been at this party as long as you have. so by your logic it's fair... no I'm an asshole hoarding all the drinks selfishly.


These two are being selfish and while I know SE won't step in they should consider giving up plots or face being demonized by the playerbase. If your going to be a selfish asshole prepared to be treated like one.

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Your example isn't comparable and is full of personal bias and poor framing.

Should the two players have bought up as much housing as they did? Maybe? Maybe not?

Would this even be an issue / would anyone actually care if digital housing were available for every player to have an equal access to?

Definitely not.

No other content in the game is limited this way, and it shows that it's an issue. The game doesn't suddenly "run out" of raids or mounts or crafting mats. Someone who joins the game day 5000 can still obtain the same drops as someone who joined the game day 1 and that's how it should be.

Housing does not fall into this category and is the only reason why this is an issue.

I agree the housing design is poor and can easily be changed to instance housing and problem solved.

But we have to work with what we have which is not helped by people like these two.

I read the tumblr post and there attitude is what annoys me the most. As i said in my post if they even where considering giving up plots for the new player base. Then fine but there not and then get upset when they receive hate.

Yes se should of stopped this from happening in the first place but it doesn't make the people abusing it any better. Its the same boat as the people who found ways to afk while avoiding the auto kick to avoid queuing. People can't use flaws in the game design to excuse being an asshole.

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

Or... and hear me out... the design is set up to have one house per character/ fc. And it's working as intended. You're calling for them to lose a shitton of hard work and saying people should be nicer? Only niceness when it benefits you, I suppose.

Ethics aren't in play, here. No one needs a house - like you said, in the end, it's all a videogame.

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The nicer part referred more to the fact people apparently sent the couple death threads and such, as well as some strong language posted here on the forums itself. Yes, they've worked hard for it, which is why I expect them to be fully reimbursed, maybe with something extra on top of it as well. You could be right about the design, but I find it more likely to be a design oversight because I would imagine Yoshi-P himself would probably prefer more people having a house, right? Or do you really think, knowing him, he would rather have a few people posses a multitude of houses?

Ethics don't exclusively apply to needs, they very much apply to wants as well. Whenever you're dealing with humans ethics definitely, though not exclusively, apply no matter the medium. As an example, surely you don't think it's okay for the couple to get swarmed with all the vileness they've been? You even mentioned you don't find it fair they would lose all their hours of work. That is your ethics speaking right there, and a kind thing to say for them in their defense

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Originally Posted by Penthea

WoW garrisons were basically FF's squadron system fused with a ghost town full of npcs with almost zero customisation to the point that everyone's garrison looked the same. You didn't even have your own bed to sleep in. It was horrendous on multiple levels. Great idea, abysmally terrible execution.

Honestly when it comes to housing from other games I mostly hear about how availability is far better than FF but the customisation rarely comes close.

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FF housing it's ok and that's about it, compared to games like Wildstar your options are very limited to the point that it feels outdated.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

FF housing it's ok and that's about it, compared to games like Wildstar your options are very limited to the point that it feels outdated.

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Wildstar seems to be the only game that has housing as good or better than FF. Pity the rest of the game is not though. Housing isn't everything.

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Originally Posted by Kogekigami

I read the tumblr post and there attitude is what annoys me the most. As i said in my post if they even where considering giving up plots for the new player base. Then fine but there not and then get upset when they receive hate.

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You're actually hating on people for not giving their stuff away for free. You realize that right?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

You're actually hating on people for not giving their stuff away for free. You realize that right?

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It's a crappy situation but the fact that these players bought the land fair and square cannot be disputed. They had the resources and they were available to purchase. The land belongs to them and no one has the right to guilt them into letting it go just because someone else wants it. If they start house flipping that's another thing altogether. It still doesn't negate their right to ownership if they bought it from the game with gil.

The hate should be directed at SE for having a system so broken that the actions of a minority can have massive negative impact.

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Originally Posted by Valenth

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The trick to divining intent is that it's really hard, if not impossible. But given what we have: If Yoshi-P wanted everyone to have housing, they would have gone the route of instanced housing. So clearly he isn't interested in everyone having housing, or that would have been the right of it. I think, knowing him, that he would rather have people work ( for lack of a better term ) for what they have.

You're not wrong - those are my ethics. But if we look at it from that perspective, ethics themselves ( along with morals ) are purely subjective, and therefore shouldn't really be considered in the grand scheme of the conversation, no?

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

The trick to divining intent is that it's really hard, if not impossible. But given what we have: If Yoshi-P wanted everyone to have housing, they would have gone the route of instanced housing. So clearly he isn't interested in everyone having housing, or that would have been the right of it. I think, knowing him, that he would rather have people work ( for lack of a better term ) for what they have.

You're not wrong - those are my ethics. But if we look at it from that perspective, ethics themselves ( along with morals ) are purely subjective, and therefore shouldn't really be considered in the grand scheme of the conversation, no?

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Because you brought up a good point, that of it being hard to divine intent, I did some digging around to see if I could find any written proof of intention regarding Yoshi-P's idea of housing. I immediately though of that famous quote of him that said how "personal housing would be, naturally, far more affordable" and looked it up. Reading the rest of the post that quote was taken from I found exactly what we're looking for. Even though it's an older post from 2013, he makes a very clear statement in it's text which should put any doubt aside.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

...Fundamental Pricing Stance

Our fundamental stance toward housing prices was that we wanted to ensure that plots would be evenly distributed, avoiding a situation in which the wealthiest players could easily buy up all available plots of land. Please understand that while we will be adding servers and expanding housing areas as soon as we can, it is simply physically impossible for us to accomplish this easily, in a matter of one or two weeks.

If the initial price of land was easily within the means of wealthy players, one can envision all available plots of land being snatched up immediately, leaving other players—even those possessing the necessary gil—unable to purchase land for an extended period of time. Seeking to avoid this, we made the difficult decision to go forward with the pricing scheme we presented, aware that many players would be unable to afford housing for a while.

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So it seems they didn't want people to posses multiple housings but rather have it evenly distributed amongst players. Their initial way of preventing that from happening was the huge pricing they put on the houses. It's very clear though that Yoshi-P wanted to prevent one (very rich) player from owning multiple houses. I hope this sheds some light on things for this debate.

Now about what you say about ethics not to be considered because they're subjective... then why do we all have this conversation at all? Isn't the point of this entire forum post (and all other discussions on the various other media) to talk about what is "fair"? Sure, what is fair is also subjective, but it's entirely defined by what people's ethics on what is fair and thus you can't rule out of the equation. It's a part of human life, emotion, having an idea on what is right and wrong. The later is exactly what is being discussed in this thread.

We can't live or decide anything without our ethics guiding us. To further illustrate the necessity of ethics - all our countries have a judicial system in place to help us decide with is "fair". For example - it's not fair to murder or steal. Isn't that also subjective? What weighs more? The fairness to the individual or the many? Should we just disregard them purely because they're subjective? I know this is going quite far, but I am just wanting to show how this entire post wouldn't be here if it wasn't for ethics, how you and me, and everybody probably wouldn't have responded the many times in this thread if it wasn't for ethics. It's probably also the reason this debate is getting so heated, because our ethics are on the line, our entire construction of making our existence work. Any danger to that might as well be the same as holding a dagger to one's throat, if you'll forgive me the exaggeration there.

(addendum) Anyway, I hope this clears up the discussion about intent the dev-team had when implementing house. I think we can also agree they picked a bad way of incorporating housing AND in their chosen method of trying to prevent the thing that has actually happened now from happening (people buying multiple houses). Hopefully we can now see that SE's inaction has caused the situation to escalate as it has and that the couple probably will be fully reimbursed + extra.

Thank you, Valenth. It's been obvious to me from the first that it wasn't the intention for people to own so many houses alone, but I had forgotten he actually clearly stated that in a post.