Please nerf Death Palace floor 50 Boss!

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Originally Posted by Holy-chan

Also remember that a lot of people simply don't really have many friends, are in small free companies, are nervous about socializing (if going the party finder route), things of that nature. Besides (and more importantly), you're unlikely to have three people you know that can go with you specifically for floors 41-50 (or any other set of floors other than 1-10, or 51-60). That isn't a solution that universally works. Now, that was only a personal thought, and it was not my intention to derail so much, so please don't take it negatively. I believe in finding solutions to game flaws over shooting other people down by suggesting restrictive patcharounds that don't work for everyone.

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It's an MMO, people that can't handle basic social interactions (like asking how a boss work or explaining it if needed) are just hurting themselves. But they have a few options:

- Deal with the problem.

- Stick to solo content.

- Stop playing.

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Originally Posted by Holy-chan

You also mention not entering the duty finder/PUGs in that floor set. Many people (including you) suggest that people don't queue with randoms and instead go in a premade party. I have seen that sentence thrown around many times, about many subjects, and in many other discussion topics. But, telling people to "go with friends" is, in my opinion, generally poor advice. That sentence is thrown around as a fix to one person's problem, rather than a fix to a flawed game mechanic. The game mechanic is what needs fixed.

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Except... it is not a flawed game mechanic but a design-choice. PotD is very easy content, "one wipe and you're out" is a mechanic in there, that adds a certain thrill to the content and many people enjoy that. This certain death mechanic used to be a lot more popular decades ago, but its coming back - we're seeing more and more games adding mechanics like that.
When you enter PotD you're (hopefully) well aware of that mechanic and it will lead to more caution - the whole dungeon is build around this mechanic; most traps wouldnt even be a threat anymore without it. We dont need to soften and nerf this content just because people cant handle that mechanic - and yes, allowing a second chance is a nerf, because it removes a mechanic.

You know when this gets really frustrating btw? When you wipe on floor 190 with your friends to the boss there and have to start from floor 51 again... thats several hours down the drain, instead of the 40 minutes OP is crying about here... But I'm not complaining about it - not at all! PotD was more fun and thrilling that way - because we had to pay attention and really focus for once in this game because there was something on the line!

The whole "bohoo, I dont have friends and I dont want to make friends"-thing is a pretty bad excuse for nerfing content aswell - after 100 you cant progress PotD with pugs anymore. This is an MMO, its supposed to be played with other people - if you dont want to do that, you're limiting yourself here and if your access to the game gets limited in the progress, thats on you.
I dont want to sound rude, but this blatant refuse to socialise, get out their, make friends or at least acquaintances that you can share a common goal with, is whats hurting you the most.

By asking for nerfs so you can avoid social contacts even more, you're ruining the content for anyone who would like to challenge themself - either solo or within a group of friends.

Nerfs does not fix bad players only makes it so average and good players are bored to death and then can complain.
I guess perhaps it is good that floors above 100 you need pre-formed groups, lol

I love how some people in this game seem to think that making friends is somehow like winning the lottery. I understand that not everyone is sociable and some of us are better at it than others, but come on. I've played on at least 3 servers in my few years in this game and I've never had a problem making at least 1 or 2 friends wherever I go. And most of these friendships stem from joining random FC's. I primarily play solo too. I enjoy my privacy and if someone like me can manage to make it to floor 180 with two friends, then I don't think it's out of line for people to tell you to go make some friends. PotD is the most casual content we have right now. There is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't need to be changed.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

Do you want player base to get even worse? ? Honestly. Just yell at stupid people until they unsub or improve

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Or how about interacting with other players in constructive ways instead of harassing way?

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

PotD definitely IS the cause, my roulette queues have been gradually getting worse with a very big consistency since they added floors 51-100 while nerfing floors 1-50.

Say what you will but this is not a coincidence.

Im on red alert mode whenever i see another player with kinna/padjal weapons joining roulettes.
And more often than not, my anticipation turns out to be right.

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Or we've been progressively moving towards a pre-expansion lull and the playerbase is shifting more towards inexperienced players who are still catching up to current content while the more experienced players are taking a break.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

Or how about interacting with other players in constructive ways instead of harassing way?

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It doesn't matter whether you yell or throw constructive criticism at people with a bad attitude. They find both things equally annoying.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

Or we've been progressively moving towards a pre-expansion lull and the playerbase is shifting more towards inexperienced players who are still catching up to current content while the more experienced players are taking a break.

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We do seem to be getting a bad quality of player in DF in general particularly tanks and healer (tanks not being able to get AOE hate but still doing large pulls)

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Originally Posted by SilkaN

It doesn't matter whether you yell or throw constructive criticism at people with a bad attitude. They find both things equally annoying.

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Yes, some people are going to take it poorly no matter what. But some people will respond better to something constructive and the only thing any of us has control over are ourselves and can still try to do things in a better way even if some people still won't be reached. :-p

'cause reasons.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Im so pissed! 3x 40mins time wasted because of idiots!

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...floor 50?... really... I messed up on the boss on floor 190 yesterday and yeah I went on a rampage as well... I don't won't to be mean... but if you freak out on a floor 50 wipe you really should think if you want to go 150+... 40 minutes is peanuts compared to the high level wipes... just be aware of it .____.

maybe just don't proceed after the X9 floor ask them if they really know how to handle the upcoming boss... I mean without you they can't move on right? Not the nicest way but at least a way...

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Originally Posted by aesteval

Or how about interacting with other players in constructive ways instead of harassing way?

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Been there. .. tired of being called a try hard for suggesting something someone could do to improve.

It's nice the way it currently is. All the times I've run it I failed once.

My wife soloed it.

This is something people forget because it so easy not to communicate.

COMMUNICATE!
Ok everyone make sure you avoid group AOE, and turn for confuse!
win 100%

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Originally Posted by Holy-chan

If you explain the mechanics to people and they still ignore them (and I mentioned a very case of it happening to me in my post), it's not due to not explaining well enough.

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Not every party is meant to succeed. This is why the system tosses you out and disbands the group. It simply didn't click. Its no big deal, you've only lost 10-20 minutes of time in that case. That's why it lets you start from floor 41 again.

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In my post, I suggested a potential game improvement (rather than a nerf) - allowing the party a second attempt if they wipe on a boss. I believe that is by far the more important part of my message to reply on. In most instances, you can work out what the problem was behind the wipe, and do better next time. In Palace of the Dead, you cannot.

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This is what makes PotD what it is. Its a short one shot dungeon. You do 10 floors which can take literally less than 20 minutes even in a PUG (my fastest is around 10min in a PUG). To give an 'extra shot' allows for a level of carelessness that many in this thread simply don't wish to see. Its not a 'so bad so sad' response. We literally do not wish to see the culture of PotD change from what it is now. Its a simple dungeon that can be ran quickly, but punishes failure. Failure caused by a lack of attention.

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You also mention not entering the duty finder/PUGs in that floor set. Many people (including you) suggest that people don't queue with randoms and instead go in a premade party.

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I never said that. I said if you wanted a failsafe run to not trust your queue to a computer AI. Aka you're rolling the dice. When you fail on Edda its because you decided to roll the dice and got a '1' as we call it in many d20 systems. That's a critical failure in most circles. However you DO have a choice to run with a premade.

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Also remember that a lot of people simply don't really have many friends, are in small free companies, are nervous about socializing (if going the party finder route), things of that nature. Besides (and more importantly), you're unlikely to have three people you know that can go with you specifically for floors 41-50 (or any other set of floors other than 1-10, or 51-60). That isn't a solution that universally works. Now, that was only a personal thought, and it was not my intention to derail so much, so please don't take it negatively. I believe in finding solutions to game flaws over shooting other people down by suggesting restrictive patcharounds that don't work for everyone.

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Welcome to online gaming. Let me elaborate on what exactly that means. There are Three Aspects needed to be successful in whatever endeavor you choose within a multiplayer setting. These aspects are the following:

1. What you know.
2. What you have.
3. Who you know.

The first aspect is What you know. This is your knowledge of the game and everything it entails. It could be as complex as knowing the sweet spot of skill speed needed for DRG. Or as simple as knowing not to use Fester with no dots put on. Basically your personal skill at the game. In this example, its knowing the fight with Edda. That's only 1/3 of what is needed to be successful.

The second aspect is What you have. This is your gear and equipment. Better it is, the more potential you can show. In PotD, this is literally two numbers. Arm and Armor. I have no idea what you are trying to do Edda with. But I'll assume you have at least 20 in each which good enough.

The third and most over looked is Who you know. This is your personal network of friends, free company, acquaintances, and well whatever PUG peeps you can get your hands on. The quality of such can and will determine your success and failure. As its one of the aspects, it counts as a third of what it is needed. That means it is JUST as IMPORTANT as your personal skill in the game. You can be god's gift to Final Fantasy XIV. But if you rely on random people, you can and WILL likely fail from time to time.

These three aspects apply to any team based multiplayer game. The fact that you got through the MSQ solo is, nice. But the moment you step into the group realm, you must attain a good balance between these three aspects if you wish to be successful. If you choose to be solitary (and that is your choice, despite how introverted or shy you think you are, at the end of the day you are a functioning adult/adolescent). Then you make an active choice to reduce your effectiveness by a third of what you could be.

Shyness is not an excuse. If that was a factor then we wouldn't be having this discussion because said player would steer clear of group content. Its a silly attempt to generate sympathy and I refuse to accept it. This is just how its going to be.

But even with that said. I queue up in PUG's like this myself. But I do so with the understanding that the run can fail. Fortunately the average player is totally capable of killing Edda. I've had one time where I couldn't. This was due to a lack of aspect two among the group and they simply lacked the damage. My first thought was, requeue and try again. Not ask for a nerf.

I've spoken about this subject with a few others and their experiences have been the same. Edda is not hard. There IS an element of failure. As there should be. Its floor 50, the last boss in a set. But the failure rate is low enough that no one agrees there should be a nerf, in fact quite the opposite. Many wish to see a BUFF due to the percentage of success being so high. I don't see any evidence of your suggestions being warranted. If you'd like, run it a few times while recording and make a montage of Edda fights. Then we'll have the evidence. Because the weird case here is no one in this thread is having the same experience.

Otherwise, reset after floor 40. You don't need to run 41-50. Edda is honestly the only unique encounter outside the level 40 boss from 31-50. You will not be missing anything. If you want to experience Edda, then accept the consequences that come with facing her. In this contest, there is no second place. And one must win to attain the prize, not simply participate. There is consequence for failure. Take responsibility for those consequences.

In spite of what the OP states, it's not always easy to see the eye in time to turn from Edda, especially when you are tanking or meleeing and your camera decides it wants a closeup. However, once I told players to watch for "Cold Feet" instead of the eye, Edda became easier.

In all honesty, I don't remember ever doing a tutorial with the eye animation. It was the first time for me seeing the eye in Palace. Then again I quit getting to lv 50 and came back after 2 years. Maybe they added the tutorial somewhere along the lines I was away ...

To the point. I was one of those stupid people, along with everyone else in my party at the time and we wiped easily. Then I made it my responsibility to study it online and learned all the mechanics, then I made a macro explaining the mechanics, which wasn't easy being on PS4 with no keyboard. Then every time I get to floor 49 exit, I do the macro. Without fail every time the party kills the boss and nobody gets hit by the AoE attacks.

Not gloating, but perhaps instead of ranting and complaining and spreading negative energy, you can just do the same and force teach people the mechanics, don't just ask them if they know and assume they do ... Teach them, help the community grow.

The "eyecon" was first introduced to FFXIV via HW's release, though not every enemy would use it (ARR enemies lacked it). I think it was in 3.1 and then again in 3.4(?) when SE decided to give every enemy that has a gaze attack this "eyecon." SE introduced a lot more indications to the game to make it easier for players to know what they should do (though it always amuses me when a player runs away from the group when they get a "stack on me" AoE).

The first time a player may ever see this eye is in Palace of the Dead, first from the snakes, then peists, then Ahriman (I think?) and then finally Edda (and of course more after). Outside of Palace of the Dead, first interaction with the eye is probably Haukke Manor's Ahriman.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Outside of Palace of the Dead, first interaction with the eye is probably Haukke Manor's Ahriman.

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Peists in Western Thanalan after the bridge before Horizon is the earliest I think.

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Originally Posted by Capriana

In all honesty, I don't remember ever doing a tutorial with the eye animation. It was the first time for me seeing the eye in Palace. Then again I quit getting to lv 50 and came back after 2 years. Maybe they added the tutorial somewhere along the lines I was away ...

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Some "area of view" mechanics had the eye animation, some not. At one point the devs streamlined all mechanic animations and all "area of view" mechanics got the eye animation. There is no tutorial, just simple mechanic learning by doing dungeons.

And buy a keyboard for your PS4. A cheap one for 10$ is all what you need.

Bring back game overs. With the sound bite from Sega rally. GAME OVER YEEEEAH!

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Originally Posted by Hikuras

Bring back game overs. With the sound bite from Sega rally. GAME OVER YEEEEAH!

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Do it SE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09s-c2JVI40

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Originally Posted by Neela

...floor 50?... really... I messed up on the boss on floor 190 yesterday and yeah I went on a rampage as well... I don't won't to be mean... but if you freak out on a floor 50 wipe you really should think if you want to go 150+... 40 minutes is peanuts compared to the high level wipes... just be aware of it .____.

maybe just don't proceed after the X9 floor ask them if they really know how to handle the upcoming boss... I mean without you they can't move on right? Not the nicest way but at least a way...

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(wow 11 pages already...)

Uhh, I asked the party of course (even no1 was new)
They all said Yes >_>
Even in the middle of the fight when I said "Look away" or "Dont look at boss now", always at least 1 or 2 people got hit with panic and running around >.>;
That healer we had twice didnt even dodged any AoE and died 1st pretty quick :I

...it wasnt just 1 wipe... it was 4 in a ROW. They werent even close. Boss didnt even had lesser than 50% HP left.
And I get mad really quick If I do something that needs alot of time and not getting anything for it because of 1 or 2 randoms .-.
I mean, its like you played a game for hours and forgot to save your datas.

uhh and I dont see why I should go on floor 150 or higher o_O (or even higher than 50..)
..if people cant even beat "easy" floor lv50 boss proberly >.>;

Maybe if our squadrons have a better meaning and we can take them into dungeons/palace!

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

...it wasnt just 1 wipe... it was 4 in a ROW. They werent even close. Boss didnt even had lesser than 50% HP left.
And I get mad really quick If I do something that needs alot of time and not getting anything for it because of 1 or 2 randoms .-.
I mean, its like you played a game for hours and forgot to save your datas.

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If that burns you, you might want to steer clear from FFXI and EQ. In those games, a death or two can not only set you back on what you just did. But the work you put in for the last few days or week.

Four wipes in a row sounds like you're getting the same people. If that's happening, wait a minute before requeuing for 41-50. That's a bit of a trick I use when PUGing. If I see a group that's a bit dicey, even if we complete a set of floors, I wait a bit before queuing for the next set to avoid getting them again.

If that doesn't work, queue as a fixed party and run solo. Any Healer, Tank, or Summoner class should be able to handle it just fine.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

If that burns you, you might want to steer clear from FFXI and EQ. In those games, a death or two can not only set you back on what you just did. But the work you put in for the last few days or week.

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And if you die IRL, you can't even log back in because you account gets deleted.

How the aftermath is handled depends on your religion. Buddhism allows you to start a new character.

It doesnt need a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Capriana

In all honesty, I don't remember ever doing a tutorial with the eye animation. It was the first time for me seeing the eye in Palace. Then again I quit getting to lv 50 and came back after 2 years. Maybe they added the tutorial somewhere along the lines I was away ...

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Serious question: Why do you think we need a tutorial for this? Or: Do you really think we need to get an explantions of mechanics straight away when we see them?

We have a lot of mechanics in this game that we had to somehow figure out - stack markers, dont-stack markers, turn around, get close to the boss, get far away from the boss, stand in this AoE to share the damage, get over in that puddle to get a status-effect that protects you from the next mechanic, tank switch once your Co-tank got so and so many stacks of that debuff, cleanse one debuff but not the other one...
For me a lot of fun comes from running content blind and figuring mechanics out by myself (well, within a group of friends who like to do the same thing) - isnt part pf the fun in more or less any RPG to figure out how to deal with a boss?

Having this eye for every "turn around"-mechanic now is them streamlining it - so one can say "Oh, I've seen this before - back then this worked, lets see if it works here aswell!" or if they havent seen it before they can figure out how to deal with the mechanic - but do we really need an ingame guide for everything? Flashy texts on the screen that are flavoury but instead instructions on how excatly to handle a mechanic?
And wouldnt that make the game pretty dull (or even more dull...)?

Gotta disagree with nerfing this. Yeah it's frustrating when you wipe and lose progress but that's the main thrill of doing Palace. It's not a super hard instance or anything but the risk of having to start over makes you take care with your play and adds tension when things go wrong.

It's quite possible for the floor 50 boss to be the first place that a player encounters the eye marker or has watching a cast bar matter. And yes they may fail. But that's ok, having mechanics matter is the way you teach players to pay attention to them instead of just ignoring them and getting away with healing through all mistakes.

As has been said if you get too frustrated by others you can always try solo.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Serious question: Why do you think we need a tutorial for this? Or: Do you really think we need to get an explantions of mechanics straight away when we see them?

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We don't.

I did a trial roulette yesterday. Titan HM popped. I didn't see people screwing up when the bombs popped. It seemed everyone knew to stack on the bombs that popped last and then move to the first once they start exploding.

There's no tutorial for that. Fight is much more complex than Edda. Everyone seems to know that one despite no tutorial. Why is that? Because its general player knowledge. That's part of this being a MMO, not everything is handheld for you by dev created mechanisms. Sometimes the players need to step in. Its how we succeed. And sometimes we get a player or two who aren't up to par. And then we have to work a little harder. It happens, but its part of the plan you signed on for when you queued for the content in question.

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Originally Posted by whiteblade89

Weird. I've had groups where we all got hit by the aoes (without a healer) multiple times and still cleared. I feel like you would legitimately have to try to wipe on that boss to actually wipe.

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I think when your aetherpool is 99/99 or anything high you really can't wipe, but I know Karayami is doing it with an alt and fresh aetherpool and if the other partymember are with a low aetherpool as well, I think you can still wipe like you could when it first came out.

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Originally Posted by yexie

I think when your aetherpool is 99/99 or anything high you really can't wipe, but I know Karayami is doing it with an alt and fresh aetherpool and if the other partymember are with a low aetherpool as well, I think you can still wipe like you could when it first came out.

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You can still wipe on stuff with 99/99. Unless you're on floor 91-100+ you're not seeing 99/99, you're scaled down. Admittedly its tougher as you can brute force most stuff. But it can happen.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

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Then it just sounds like you were dealt a bad hand multiple times. This is a "blame the player, not the game" situation. Floor 50 boss does not need to be nerfed.

It's challenging solo, but still clearable, so no nerfs (I find scholar easier to pull it off though).

I definitely noticed a lot more difficulty with that boss these days. I blame it on new players who only level up through POTD and have no idea what a huge glowing eye symbol means and up to that point have never experienced any sort of boss mechanics that can wipe the group.

Some people only level through potd and so they don't learn common dungeon mechanics

The fight shouldn't be nerfed. In fact, I'd rather see other floor bosses made harder.

That said, time allowing, I agree with your 'continues' idea. I feel groups should get two attempts at PotD bosses (no refreshing of Pomanders). This should ideally be earned (say, unlock the Cairn of Return on all previous floors). I never liked the fact that a simple slip-up on the part of one or two party members could render the previous nine floors useless in a flash.

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Originally Posted by Kamui_Argent

I definitely noticed a lot more difficulty with that boss these days. I blame it on new players who only level up through POTD and have no idea what a huge glowing eye symbol means and up to that point have never experienced any sort of boss mechanics that can wipe the group.

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Really? Because the players I see having trouble have more 60's than I do. New players actually heed the warning to look away for Cold Feet. You know because their new and don't wish to screw up. Its arrogant vet players that think they can ignore mechanics that are the problem.