Why are bad hunt behavior rewarded?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

What surprises me the most is, people still doing hunts.

---

I like the cheap cheap venture coins.

everyone was told at one point during one of the streams that hunts are first come first serve so no one cares anymore to wait for others

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atlas-04

I like the cheap cheap venture coins.

---

The essentially free AF armor is also good if you're well behind the progression curve, or for glamour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ssmiley_Bjakkzz

http://techdigg.com/wp-content/uploa...5927_670x0.jpg
you get my dislike button

---

You sure showed him/her!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tremara

First come, first served.

---

Early pulling is a problem in a dungeon or raid. You're with a set amount of people in an instance and you need to work together or else you all may just wipe. On the open field, I don't shout to see if someone is gonna attack the hornets outside of Uldah nor do I shout about doing special FATEs. It's an open world mob, and people are treating it like a raid boss rush.

And in the event that I see a Crystal Tower FATE and someone asks me to hold on, I will. Otherwise, I'm gonna kill it and keep moving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

What surprises me the most is, people still doing hunts.

---

Well its in the game. Not my cup of tea but if ya want that glam that's locked behind that hunt currency then yeah...

What surprises me though about this thread is apparently, if you don't wait and/or call out for hunts, you're being rude.


People use that word but I do not think they know what it means.

the thing is, Hunts are designed to be taken down by those who find them first, that is the point of a hunt, BUT becuse players know how hard it is to find or kill most of them we wait, the idea of fast pulling isnt against the rule or the idea of the hunt, but against the unwritten rule the players have made themselves.

for the people who are fast pulling all they tend to get is a stigma against them from players who recognise the name and a reputation, but again those are player made issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

the thing is, Hunts are designed to be taken down by those who find them first, that is the point of a hunt, BUT becuse players know how hard it is to find or kill most of them we wait, the idea of fast pulling isnt against the rule or the idea of the hunt, but against the unwritten rule the players have made themselves.

for the people who are fast pulling all they tend to get is a stigma against them from players who recognise the name and a reputation, but again those are player made issues.

---

Ah

Social deviancy, how many good people have you killed and how many more will you take from us?

How dare humans in an interactive community develop certain expectations for behavior amongst themselves that help minimize conflict and aid each other in achieving mutual objectives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naunet

How dare humans in an interactive community develop certain expectations for behavior amongst themselves that help minimize conflict and aid each other in achieving mutual objectives.

---

How dare humans in an interactive community fight a mob they can kill. How dare they not waste their life waiting for people not actively hunting and in the zone at the time. The lazy people have just as much right as the people who hunted the creature and gathered their group to kill it already.

To be serious though, expecting everyone to conform to 'expected behaviour' of no written law is just asking to be butthurt. If no one else is there by the time their group gathered, tough. Quite clearly the other people aren't actively hunting, therefore shouldn't even care that they missed it. If they were hunting, start getting there faster/work better as a team to cover all areas.

"I got mine and screw everyone else" is a very sad way to live. I'd rather help out as many people as I can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naunet

"I got mine and screw everyone else" is a very sad way to live. I'd rather help out as many people as I can.

---

"You can get it now but please wait 10 minutes for all my friends to arrive, then another 10 minutes for their friends, and 30 minutes for that person to clear dungeon to arrive" is a very sad thing to expect people to do. I'd rather kill it when my party is there, since you know, we worked to find it in the first place. I'm all for helping people, but I won't promote laziness by wasting my own time waiting for them to appear from other zones.

I just wanted it more fc related you accept a hunt from whatever grand company the mob spawn in random zone only your fc can claim it and can give special permission to others and then have to go find it. Then the fc if nice could put in party finder to enlist help and could give extra credit reward for doing so at the same time helping get a reward to the people who's outside of your fc as well instead we got this cluster (fill in the blank).... More people the more the hunt scales up in HP ect as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Settiesama

I'm all for helping people, but I won't promote laziness by wasting my own time waiting for them to appear from other zones.

---

Yeeeeep. There's always been a really fine line between actually getting help and just flat out leeching off the backs of others under the guide of "helping". In a perfect world if hunt's taught people to be proactive and search out their rewards on their own and learn that sometimes you just can't always get your way in life. Things would be better. Further, yes I am for helping others at my own discression. However trying to be a saint and helping the masses with their hands held out can very well lead to a life of constantly being walked on, just because in enough time gratitude can quickly lead to expectations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Settiesama

"You can get it now but please wait 10 minutes for all my friends to arrive, then another 10 minutes for their friends, and 30 minutes for that person to clear dungeon to arrive" is a very sad thing to expect people to do. I'd rather kill it when my party is there, since you know, we worked to find it in the first place. I'm all for helping people, but I won't promote laziness by wasting my own time waiting for them to appear from other zones.

---

I think taking things to an extreme end is being disingenuous at best. There are some reasonable boundaries here, but it's not overly burdensome to wait for folk who are on their way. I've often seen people post a "pulling at ____" start time, which is plenty courteous as it gives those who want to get there a known time limit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naunet

There are some reasonable boundaries here, but it's not overly burdensome to wait for folk who are on their way. I've often seen people post a "pulling at ____" start time, which is plenty courteous as it gives those who want to get there a known time limit.

---

That's fine and all, but after sending out a message about the spawn, it will create a chain reaction with people telling FC and LS members, which will have them zoning in. After the pull, no matter how long you waited, will be cried out as an Early Pull, and the whinging and moaning will commence from those who weren't even hunting to begin with. As the group who finds it, you will never win in that regard. People will consistently tell you to wait longer, I am no stranger to this. I've given up with it all, I'll pull as soon as my group has gathered. By the time we all gather back up at it, is plenty of time for other active hunters to find it too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Settiesama

After the pull, no matter how long you waited, will be cried out as an Early Pull, and the whinging and moaning will commence from those who weren't even hunting to begin with.

---

This is simply not my experience. If you give people a reasonable time to get there, I've yet to see anyone get upset.

Yes, it sucks when you have a group of people like that. However no one person is deserving of these mobs over the other. The only way you or anyone will be guaranteed to get the mob is if you actually actively hunt them yourself/establish a hunting LS (using the spawn time tracker on various websites like Ariyala etc )

Personally I think SE should have implemented the hunt mobs not be target-able for a time after they spawn (Something like 1min-5mins) However then there is the problem that the Mobs or your PT members become hard to target due to the amount of people around...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naunet

This is simply not my experience. If you give people a reasonable time to get there, I've yet to see anyone get upset.

---

The last NM I killed ( the one in S.Than you need to kill all fates for an hour to spawn it ), I saw people that arrived 20 minutes after the mob died get pissy because we didn't wait for them. This was from multiple people. A few months back The Bird of Paradise spawns. Wait 10 minutes, then pulled. 5 minutes or so after it died, people come pouring in the zone asking for an invite. There's a shout that it had been dead for awhile now. Never saw so much cursing in a video game and I played through EQ with all the Karnor's Castle trains.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naunet

This is simply not my experience. If you give people a reasonable time to get there, I've yet to see anyone get upset.

---

Define "reasonable" time. Is it 3 minutes for everyone in the zone? Is it 10 minutes for everyone in different zones to gather? Is it 30 minutes for the one player to finish their dungeon or raid? Is it 45 minutes for the person who got a call while driving home from work or the store? I dunno about Coeurl server but on Balmung. Either wait five minutes or wait an hour, either way their will always be someone complaining about "early pulling"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stitches1974

Karnor's Castle trains.

---

OMG TRAIN RIGHT!! DON'T TRAIN LEFT!!!!! xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylis

OMG TRAIN RIGHT!! DON'T TRAIN LEFT!!!!! xD

---

I mained a monk solely during Kunark. I'd flop to the floor and wait for the carnage to hit the zone line and come back =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stitches1974

I mained a monk solely during Kunark. I'd flop to the floor and wait for the carnage to hit the zone line and come back =P

---

I was forever the druid, if a train hit KC I just said to my party "I HOPE YOU ALL LIKE THE DREADLANDS COZ WERE GOING THERE NOW!!!!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylis

I was forever the druid, if a train hit KC I just said to my party "I HOPE YOU ALL LIKE THE DREADLANDS COZ WERE GOING THERE NOW!!!!"

---

I always had 1 evac up on my Druid. I never cared which one, as long as it got us out of where ever my group was. As a monk I had to walk /ride everywhere, but I rarely ever died outside of a raid.

What I also miss the most out of all the older MMOs, an actual dungeon crawl and not some instance. Sebilis was my home away from home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stitches1974

I always had 1 evac up on my Druid. I never cared which one, as long as it got us out of where ever my group was. As a monk I had to walk /ride everywhere, but I rarely ever died outside of a raid.

What I also miss the most out of all the older MMOs, an actual dungeon crawl and not some instance. Sebilis was my home away from home.

---

Lower Guk was mine always....though...Estate of Unrest will forever hold a special place in my heart.I still remember that one year..I can't remember if it was an anniversary quest or something else. Where we all got to go back in time to see the events that lead to the disaster of the house. Good old memories ^.^ but omg yes, those were the good old days of dungeon crawls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylis

Lower Guk was mine always....though...Estate of Unrest will forever hold a special place in my heart.I still remember that one year..I can't remember if it was an anniversary quest or something else. Where we all got to go back in time to see the events that lead to the disaster of the house. Good old memories ^.^ but omg yes, those were the good old days of dungeon crawls.

---

I loved Unrest! A Paladin/SK/Necro/Cleric playground. Unrest in EQ2 was great as well.

EDIT: Damned FBSS farming......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stitches1974

I loved Unrest! A Paladin/SK/Necro/Cleric playground. Unrest in EQ2 was great as well.

EDIT: Damned FBSS farming......

---

Even when my journey was over and I left the world full Convorteum raid geared. It was always fun to revisit and give old Toklar Battlemaster a poke lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylis

Define "reasonable" time. Is it 3 minutes for everyone in the zone? Is it 10 minutes for everyone in different zones to gather? Is it 30 minutes for the one player to finish their dungeon or raid? Is it 45 minutes for the person who got a call while driving home from work or the store? I dunno about Coeurl server but on Balmung. Either wait five minutes or wait an hour, either way their will always be someone complaining about "early pulling"

---

The only time I've ever seen complaints of early pulls on Couerl was when we had a raid group forming, with some folk on their way presently, and someone outside the raid group decided to pull. Aside from that, folk generally get ~5-10 min, depending on the rarity of the spawn.

If they catch you early pulling in my fc they kick you. hey could fix the problem once NM is killed make it so ones than killed it can't see it anymore but ones that missed out on it. they cant still see it and kill it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naunet

The only time I've ever seen complaints of early pulls on Couerl was when we had a raid group forming, with some folk on their way presently, and someone outside the raid group decided to pull. Aside from that, folk generally get ~5-10 min, depending on the rarity of the spawn.

---

Dang. I've grown used to roughly 2 minutes for... well, everything. Unless it's night, when we're more patient and you generally get more like 3-5.

Most people wait ~5 min on Hyperion to pull, I've seen a wait as long as ten, but like others have said, especially on moderate to large servers there will almost always be some armchair hunter who gets pissy because he or she missed a hunt due to late call in a poor LS or slow response time.

This is always going to be a thing, there's just too many factors in this. Like how fast or late does the call get relayed, how many people are actually there, how fast are your load times (<- this is a hard drive issue I believe), etc.. Realistically no one can wait there for almost the entire server to get there, but if someone IS early pulling with few people there.... Well... there's nothing to stop that from happening and sadly we're forced to deal with it. Could make the hunts harder to down, but not sure what effect that would have. Overall HP was increased already I believe. But i'm not gonna say nothing can be done because there's always room for improvment. Just what those improvements are is the question lol

At least there's no world PvP to encourage ganking when people are fighting rare hunts. WoW got terrible about that recently.

It pretty much is summed up like this: there's the quick; and the waiting for the mob to respawn.

Well I don't really do hunts anymore but back when I used to (Mostly for my i210 relic). My friends and I would be the ones searching for the A ranks and attempting to spawn the S ranks whenever possible.

We'd find an A for example, post in the LS for anyone fast enough, then pull and kill it. You think we're gonna let people just sitting around in their houses or idyllshire leech off the hunt we found? Hell no. Is it selfish? Maybe, but we were the ones putting the effort in most of the time, so I think it's justified to kill what you find.

Yep, call us selfish because we're just highlighting the rules. Square Enix aren't going to change them. So buck up, find them first, if you want to be decent, then by all means relay the message out. But accept that most people are going to kill on sight and if you got a problem with that then stop doing hunts. If you feel the hunts are too important to the game to handle either of those, then quit. Those are your options because I can guarantee you Square Enix won't change the rules to what you're suggesting. If they do, hell, I'll even toss you something from the Mog Station out of my own pocket, that's how confident I am they won't change.

solution: increase the attack stats and HP of the hunt monsters 10 times. Then you really need the whole server to have a chance

Solution. Stop be a cry baby that think he deserves to get all there is and all the world need to wait for him.

They dont have the numbers to take the hunt mobs down at all -_- They simply rely on stupid sheep mentality that if they attack the monster as soon as they arrive everyone will pile in and back them up( which people do ). Meanwhile lots of other considerate people who actually hunt and spawn the mobs patiently wait and try to share with as many people as possible. Why would anyone encourage/defend/promote such antisocial behaviour? It is well known these people do it for the attention they get from upsetting as many people as possible and then antogonise them in chat afterwards. Infact i believe they have had warnings because they no longer engage in /shout anymore. People need to not let things like this slide and most definitely not treat it like " Oh stuff happens just deal with it ". The community should be able to come together with Se to come up with a solution, as both the community and Se shouldnt be acknowledging anti-social behaviour on this level on a daily basis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuinRaines

Well I don't really do hunts anymore but back when I used to (Mostly for my i210 relic). My friends and I would be the ones searching for the A ranks and attempting to spawn the S ranks whenever possible.

We'd find an A for example, post in the LS for anyone fast enough, then pull and kill it. You think we're gonna let people just sitting around in their houses or idyllshire leech off the hunt we found? Hell no. Is it selfish? Maybe, but we were the ones putting the effort in most of the time, so I think it's justified to kill what you find.

---

Pretty much this. I was one of those waiting for LS calls, yet I knew the risk. I wouldn't demand anything when I didn't work for it. I saw a call, I went to the spot, mob is dead? oh well bad luck, try again next time. It's basically free rewards for no effort, why do people complain with this entitlement nonsense.

You're lucky enough someone is sharing the info with you, if people had to keep waiting for the whole server to arrive, marks would never die. If you think it's greedy, what do you call expecting to get ALL full rewards without lifting a finger?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EvanUk

They dont have the numbers to take the hunt mobs down at all -_- They simply rely on stupid sheep mentality that if they attack the monster as soon as they arrive everyone will pile in and back them up( which people do ). Meanwhile lots of other considerate people who actually hunt and spawn the mobs patiently wait and try to share with as many people as possible. Why would anyone encourage/defend/promote such antisocial behaviour? It is well known these people do it for the attention they get from upsetting as many people as possible and then antogonise them in chat afterwards. Infact i believe they have had warnings because they no longer engage in /shout anymore. People need to not let things like this slide and most definitely not treat it like " Oh stuff happens just deal with it ". The community should be able to come together with Se to come up with a solution, as both the community and Se shouldnt be acknowledging anti-social behaviour on this level on a daily basis.

---

I feel like you read the OP and then skipped all the pages until the last. The important pages where we have specifically detailed why people pull 'early' and it's very rarely for grief. Just because you want to hang out in Idyllshire/House/Cities and answer a call, expecting people to wait for you, doesn't mean they're grieving you when it's dead before your arrival.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuinRaines

You think we're gonna let people just sitting around in their houses or idyllshire leech off the hunt we found? Hell no. Is it selfish? Maybe, but we were the ones putting the effort in most of the time

---

<_< This, to be honest. People that are actively hunting tend to get there ASAP, even if they were in a different zone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EvanUk

They dont have the numbers to take the hunt mobs down at all -_- They simply rely on stupid sheep mentality that if they attack the monster as soon as they arrive

---

xD I recently had a group just sit back and watch me 'solo' a hunt for that reason. They didn't attack it until it was 50% and realized I wasn't going to die. I found it amusing, especially after they said in say chat, "Don't attack. Just let her die and then kill it after it resets."

I've stopped calling hunts and just solo them. After having the 'wait or have salt thrown at you' for years now, I'm just tired of waiting and the drama. I just want the rewards and go back to doing more important things in the game. At least I still report the kills for those that plan to go hunting later.