On Xelphatol and the Actual Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Well its a good thing most of you posting on this thread don't seem to represent the SMN community much...

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How do you know this? Just because my little nametag that says "Main class: Gladiator"? I have SMN at 60, I have played a fair bit of SMN, I know what the job is like, how it plays, and the issues that I have with it. I can change my job at any time and if SMN gets a lot of love in the places that I want I may join this "SMN community" that apparently excludes me.

Having said that, I do agree with your definition of what makes SMN good, and what "feels like a SMN". I think all that needs to happen is animations need to be flashier and more summon focused, the gameplay can stay the same (if a bahamut mirage cast deathflare, rather than us, it would instantly stop a lot of complaints)

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Having said that, I do agree with your definition of what makes SMN good, and what "feels like a SMN". I think all that needs to happen is animations need to be flashier and more summon focused, the gameplay can stay the same (if a bahamut mirage cast deathflare, rather than us, it would instantly stop a lot of complaints)

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Very well, in fairness here... I will also concede a point...


There is one thing I do find incredibly pointless in the Job as well....

Enkindle has a 5 minute recast timer... for a 250 Potency (Garuda) supreme attack... even with Spur and Rouse this thing is lucky to make a 400 potency attack IF THAT. I can do 4-5 Deathflares in the time it takes that thing to refresh and those are 440 potency.

Supposedly this is the level 50 cap ability... akin to the BLM Flare spell. Yeah we got hosed on that one... there is no reasonable person I know that can justify a 5 minute recast timer for a 250 potency attack... you can't no matter how you slice it.

Enkindle either needs to be a 1 minute recast... or the Pets signature attack potency needs to be doubled for a FIVE MINUTE recast on the Enkindle... Then it will truly be a level 50 signature attack.

And I will never argue with any of you regarding glamors and aesthetics to make Summoners more "Flashy".

But the fact does remain..... this is a very fun and powerful class to play and very popular as is...

True - i love enkindle but the cd is way to long compared to its potency... I would love to see some more egi-related skills or at least adjustments to the current ones, although it seems doubtful that SE will work on the petsystem any further at all .____.

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Originally Posted by Neela

True - i love enkindle but the cd is way to long compared to its potency... I would love to see some more egi-related skills or at least adjustments to the current ones, although it seems doubtful that SE will work on the petsystem any further at all .____.

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The thing is... had they done Enkindle correctly.... it would have been akin to your Teraflare/Deathflare at level 60... you would have found the class playing no differently at level 50 than level 60... well ok maybe a little... BUT...

The reality is... Enkindle would have been your 50th level version the way Deathflare is the capstone of your attacks at level 60.

One Enkindle per minute would have equated out to similar damage mechanics as Deathflare/Teraflare does every minute currently for the Summoner at level 60 due to the way Aetherflow stacks work.

Probably would have saved themselves some Summoner whining back when the level cap was only 50.

EDIT: And then you'd have had your version of the Garuda, Ifrit, Titan version of the Bahamet Teraflare we have now.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

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I can agree with that. I even drafted an idea of enkindle being made part of dreadwyrm trance (renamed to trance form). The idea is that enkindle is made into an ability that gives you three aetherflow stacks and powers up your egi. It can only be used during trance form, and gives you the status "overdrive".

If overdrive is active, deathflare is replaced with the ultimate attack of the summoned egi.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I can agree with that. I even drafted an idea of enkindle being made part of dreadwyrm trance (renamed to trance form). The idea is that enkindle is made into an ability that gives you three aetherflow stacks and powers up your egi. It can only be used during trance form, and gives you the status "overdrive".

If overdrive is active, deathflare is replaced with the ultimate attack of the summoned egi.

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They wouldn't even have to go that far with it... there's no reason to totally rebuild the class mechanics.

This is no change to any actual game system and not a class rework... its a simple recast timer adjustment on Enkindle (or possibly Potency adjustment and keep the timer)... that basically brings the Level 50 Capstone ability in line with the level 60 Capstone ability of Deathflare... aka Teraflare.

ie...
Aerial Blast (Garuda)
Inferno (Ifrit)
Earthen Fury (Titan)

Yeah sure you can add some glamor and flash to it... but at the end of the day its a simple gameplay mechanic adjustment that keeps the job in line with the intents or the direction they went with it in Heavensward.

Nothing fancy here...

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Nothing fancy here...

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Oh I know, I just wanted to throw out my view on enkindle and where i'd like it to be. IMO it should be part of the SMNs finisher, and compliment deathflare rather than "compete" with it as the flashy move. My idea makes enkindle and deathflare one in the same, and lumps all of the big fancy summoning moves into one ability, making for a more streamlined gameplay that involves both egi management and have 4 big summoner finisher moves within the same gameplay.

Oh and add into that flashier animations, and have the egi transform into a primal mirage for a moment, which uses the attack, and then disappears, rather than SMN using it themselves.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Enkindle has a 5 minute recast timer...

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You know the Recast for Enkindle was changed from 5 to 3 minutes with the launch of Heavensward, right? I haven't touched SMN since getting it to 60 and I remember that change.

Not really gonna deny that SMN isn't a fun class, it is and I mained it for practically all of ARR. Once HW hit I admit I kinda went the healing path to main then ended as tank. However going to the main OP at hand. I feel the same way, summoners are known for bringing the wrath of the primal upon foes but instead we leave that power to a little ball of mass. I guess I expected something aesthetic wise along the lines of Yuna in Dissidia, where they are summoned only briefly to strike. That our skills would revolve around summoning Hell Fire and Diamond dust (obviously at lower potency) vs being a Warlock from WoW.

Just that the main focus point isn't on the Summon itself, but just how I feel on this.

Yoship repeatedly mentions that they want to design classes their way and while some of the weirdness around SMN right now (particularly the 30-50 stuff) is caused by the dual class with SCH/SMN I doubt there will be much of a rework coming for SMN's overall play style. Introducing things like the big f-off summons is sorta cool, but I don't know if it really fits with what they gave SMN in 3.X (ie: better CC and personal damage with deathflare, dwt, rIII, and painflare). I can easily see SMN becoming more of a CC beast in the future and the summons continuing to be less of an important part of gameplay over time. Whether you think that's a good thing or not is your business, but I personally hope they stick with the personal skills that SMN is getting.

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Originally Posted by Neela

True - i love enkindle but the cd is way to long compared to its potency... I would love to see some more egi-related skills or at least adjustments to the current ones, although it seems doubtful that SE will work on the petsystem any further at all .____.

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Were you around BEFORE they shortened the cooldown timer? THOSE were the days of anguish lol

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I can agree with that. I even drafted an idea of enkindle being made part of dreadwyrm trance (renamed to trance form). The idea is that enkindle is made into an ability that gives you three aetherflow stacks and powers up your egi. It can only be used during trance form, and gives you the status "overdrive".

If overdrive is active, deathflare is replaced with the ultimate attack of the summoned egi.

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That would take restructuring the job skills a bit. Otherwise you have a very jarring and strange flow from the lv50 abilities to lv60 cap skills. The skills are already horribly disconnected as it is, since you have two entirely separate systems that are connected by very slim threads.

One of the things people seem to skip over is the fact that in previous ff titles elements played a much much larger role in damage and defense... Not so much in ff14.... having multiple summons would be unfortunately redundant... I could see them adding status effects when summoned to give you more of a reason to summon whatever primal....

I'll admit when I saw this I went "I want to do that." Thankfully, like others in this thread the lore was discussed. I know that's a cheap way out but I do love the lore aspect of this game. The more I thought about it the more I realized I either won't care and it's not that big of a deal.

I can see them finding ways for us to do this if needed through the lore, but still one thing I've realized after getting our carbuncle glamour, I don't notice it at all when I'm fighting stuff. There's so much flash going around I don't know if I'd notice or care to notice garuda coming out for an attack and going away, especially with the speed of this game and doing rotations.

It could be added, but it doesn't solve the problems I see with summoner. Though if they add it, far be it from me to not use Titan to pop up scream and go away..so I wish you all luck on those who want it.

i don't actually want a new pet in SB, but i want more skill will be like deathflare, where you summon primal to do an animation attack like yuna in FF dissidia where she summon part of her aeon to do an attack for her

After seeing the new ninja frog summon attack I'm feeling a little ripped off on my tiny summons... but time will tell if we get something just as awesome... one can hope

I would love to see the summoner reworked to be like Yuna in Dissidia, I'd give up my Egi's for that.
I want summoner to have that feel of big powerful attacks that look fancy like in previous FF titles, I dont want them to be "stronger" than other jobs but to have that feeling again.

Summoner does not feel like a summoner at all in XIV, getting Deathflare and entering Dreadwyrm Trance is a move in the right direction to have that "I am empowered by the primal!" feel to it.
We can only hope something is in the works for the class removal in 5.0 when they completely, I hope, seperate SCH and SMN from eachother.