[Dev] ilevel to enter a DF is not enough. ALL DF need requrements. 4.0 reminder.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

My friend told me a DF that was done today where there was this AST trolling them in shire gear on the left, some 230 on the right, with a 145 weapon in some 60 dungeon....

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how do you know it was a troll? person may have bought the shire acc first. If you run potd @ 60 you can get scripture.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

snip.

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ya you get the name by hovering over the tag and report the post stating the tag name.
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btw pvp, and glamour should be non-issue choices when it comes to setting ilvl caps on all content.

SE already makes pvp based gear, they could rework it to be more free form and used ONLY in pvp, and let you but a starter set with gil or from completing a quest, or bought from gc. items can be used remade to lvl 1 glam like they already did for a few gear sets.


and job quests should reward you a full set of gear as not everyone does side quests.

It's a big issue in PvP. It even happens in Ranked Feast! People will enter with 'technically' ilvl150 but they'll have really lots of pre-level 60 gear and in PvP it's a huge deal because a teammate with gear like that results in a sure loss unless the other teammates are gods.

http://i.imgur.com/wmW8GKO.png

If it's frustrating in PvE, imagine how frustrating it is in Ranked PvP! They'll die at a drop of a hat and can't output any heals/dps.

the game should just check for more than one variable:

- ilevel of the equipped weapon (don't allow to change the weapon to something of a lower ilevel during the duty)
- role specific main stat (don't allow to fall below during the duty)
- ilevel average (might not even be needed with the other two)

I'll agree on never allow DoL/DoH gear in DF duties, as the game doesn't let you change job inside a duty, it needs also don't let you wear DoL/DoH gear when queuing and when inside the duty, I feel it a pretty legit requirement.

Whoever wants spiritbond his things, can go with friends/PF but please not on DF.

But accessories, not sure about enforcing them, because when pugging I'd prefer more vit for survive low healing or the casual mob tanking because problems on aggro management. A dead blm doesn't dps, afterall.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

how do you know it was a troll? person may have bought the shire acc first. If you run potd @ 60 you can get scripture.

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In that example, the person was on ast who only used ewer on themselves, never dps, and bragged about how good healer they are. People that troll exists, another example is yesterday when a tank in a 60 roulette was trying to MPK the group my friend was in in Sohr khai. My friend told the tank to turn the monsters away from the group and she kept moving where the tank kept turning them to face the group. Her and a random DPS was not very welcoming of such actions and removed them.

Another example is a person admitting of MPK her on Alexander, just because the tank did not like where she put the stack marker and she put it near alex as a range attacker. (does not have enough time to put it in the perfect spot like that) Trolling the DF exists....

If you are 60 doing 60 things, the smallest weapon you should have is 235, you can do deep easy for 30/30 and or 4k wolf marks, 3 frontline dailies on 3 straight losses or 2 dailies on 2 wins for frontline i think it is, you get weird values at times (1k+ for win, 750-850 for second, 500 for 3rd, +1000 daily) and losses but max you need is 2 daily wins (so 2 wins is 2k or over + 2k for each daily bonus). Or you can simply do the daily, lose, that's 1500, then lose 6 more times, so max is 7 matches in a day, gives you a 235 weapon. There is no excuse to have anything lower then a 235 weapon right now, other then a returning player not knowing better because the system allows them to pass for things when they shouldn't be able too.

If someone has the know-how and time to farm up that many 230 + and have some shire, not have a 235+ weapon is trolling. People really should be blocked so they know they need to put in some effort, like at very least 20 mins per day over he course of 3 days total to have a 235 weapon? I do not understand how people are so under geared when the game hands you more then what you need without much work. People are lazy and like to abuse the system because it is allowed I guess...

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

that is when you disband and reform. If you start a pf, you gotta be a leader.

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hell no, that is not fair to the rest of the group

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

the game should just check for more than one variable:

- ilevel of the equipped weapon (don't allow to change the weapon to something of a lower ilevel during the duty)
- role specific main stat (don't allow to fall below during the duty)
- ilevel average (might not even be needed with the other two)

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problem with that is there is still no hp check, and I seen people simply having too low hp outside those guidelines.

Need weapon check, main stat check, and HP check and this allows people to be free with the right side putting vit on just as long they meet the main stat check.

Does anyone else keep seeing this issue appear? I mean I seen it here and there since I last posted but today stands out when my friend found someone using pant slot (a sub 60 skirt and hands, level 136/142) and ofc my friend carried from lack of damage and plus the person got oneshot from mechanic mistake. The person had several other 60s and was clearly not new, so one can view it this person was simply trolling or trying to get gear drops while lore farming because they are too lazy to meet minimum requirements and thinks it is ok to enter like that, just because the game lets them.

It does not even take long to gear if you have 150 in each slot to be useful in PvP, why do people not put effort to gear enough to meet acceptable minimum requirements?

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

the game told my g/f to wear a lvl 58 fending ring over a level 60 slaying ring after someone told her tanks use 1 fending 1 slaying to help with damage, since tank damage is a ratio between str and vit.

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From what I've read thats old stat stuff and that tanks get equal damage buff from strength as they do from VIT, so until you cap VIT there is no point to get STR since with VIT you'll get HP and damage which will be more HP than appears because tanks have a bunch of tools that increase their eHP (so VIT is even more potent on tanks).

At least what I was reading for a tank specifically, 80 VIT would always be better than 80 STR unless you want to die easier or something. So unless the slaying accessory is offering some sexy secondary stats you can't make up for with materia or you have a significant ilvl issue then just go fending and meld onto it now appears to be the general idea.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

From what I've read thats old stat stuff and that tanks get equal damage buff from strength as they do from VIT, so until you cap VIT there is no point to get STR since with VIT you'll get HP and damage which will be more HP than appears because tankshave a bunch of tools that increase their eHP (so VIT is even more potent on tanks).

At least what I was reading for a tank specifically, 80 VIT would always be better than 80 STR unless you want to die easier or something. So unless the slaying accessory is offering some sexy secondary stats you can't make up for with materia or you have a significant ilvl issue then just go fending and meld onto it now appears to be the general idea.

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Well I did adress that, but as said it is not something you really tell a new person because it can get complicated. It is more then comparing STR and VIT though. The reason people do that, have some slaying accessories has to do more with secondaries. Say you have a lot of vit as is because you are over geared, 260+ and for a ring you have an option of having parry/accuracy or det/crit. So when you meld that slaying ring with the better secondaries with a VIT materia, you suddenly have a better stat weight then the "tank" one.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

ALL DUTY FINDER queues needs better ways of passing for entry. I been seeing for myself more and more people entering DFs with crafter gear, gear not suited for their job, like vit accessories for DPS.I do not know how much is intentionally trying to bypass what is needed anymore but a lot of the problems are coming from new players (so they may not know what is really required and just enter

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thats horrible

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

In that example, the person was on ast who only used ewer on themselves, never dps, and bragged about how good healer they are.

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That doesn't actually explain how he's trolling. If he was ewering himself, it may have been because he's wasting too much mp from overhealing the tank, his mp regen may have been on cooldown at the time, maybe the tank may have slightly low gear, which may be the reason for not healer DPSing, or all of the above. Unless if they didn't have either mch or brd, he may have not gotten some MP song. As for a weapon, maybe can't afford a 200+ weapon at the time, due to not being motivated to do daily hunts, haven't unlocked Alexander yet, or not enough gil for a 250 weapon.

While I agree that crafting and gathering gear shouldn't be used in a duty at all, even if it's for spirit bonding, calling someone a troll for using low level Heavensward weapon is kinda bad judgment, and an angry rant, in my opinion, isn't gonna make SE implement something like that any faster, if at all.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

If you are 60 doing 60 things, the smallest weapon you should have is 235, you can do deep easy for 30/30 and or 4k wolf marks, 3 frontline dailies on 3 straight losses or 2 dailies on 2 wins for frontline i think it is, you get weird values at times (1k+ for win, 750-850 for second, 500 for 3rd, +1000 daily) and losses but max you need is 2 daily wins (so 2 wins is 2k or over + 2k for each daily bonus). Or you can simply do the daily, lose, that's 1500, then lose 6 more times, so max is 7 matches in a day, gives you a 235 weapon. There is no excuse to have anything lower then a 235 weapon right now, other then a returning player not knowing better because the system allows them to pass for things when they shouldn't be able too.

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So in order to do expert dungeons, you feel that you are required to have a weapon above the minimum item level (230) for those dungeons? And you expect everyone to do PvP, which some people hate, 7 times before they do that? That's a bit much. If you have a mix of poetics and lore gear, and a 210 weapon from seals, you're fine. Not everyone does Alexander or PvP, nor should we expect them to just to finish the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Did we really need yet another thread about this?

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Gotta beg Square to force other players into doing what they want others to do.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

So in order to do expert dungeons, you feel that you are required to have a weapon above the minimum item level (230) for those dungeons? And you expect everyone to do PvP, which some people hate, 7 times before they do that? That's a bit much. If you have a mix of poetics and lore gear, and a 210 weapon from seals, you're fine. Not everyone does Alexander or PvP, nor should we expect them to just to finish the MSQ.

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Drop it to 230, which is what lore gear is. People shouldn't be able to queue into content with gear that doesn't reach the minimum ilvl. At least not to the extent we've seen examples of. Maybe 10-20 below? But what Miste demonstratively is a clear flaw in the system.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Drop it to 230, which is what lore gear is. People shouldn't be able to queue into content with gear that doesn't reach the minimum ilvl. At least not to the extent we've seen examples of. Maybe 10-20 below? But what Miste demonstratively is a clear flaw in the system.

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In order to get a 230 weapon, you need to finish A8 four times, or be doing your Anima weapon. If someone doesn't do Alexander (and plenty of people don't, even normal) or the Anima quests, that's not really an option.

230 minimum item level does not mean that every single item needs to be 230, it means the average item has to be 230. I agree that people shouldn't be coming in to level 60 content with level 52 weapons, because the weapon is disproportionately important (and should probably be more heavily weighted in the ilvl calculation), but 210 is plenty for ilvl 230 content, assuming the rest of your gear brings your average item level to at least 230. (Which it obviously must if you're queuing at all.)

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Originally Posted by Talraen

So in order to do expert dungeons, you feel that you are required to have a weapon above the minimum item level (230) for those dungeons? And you expect everyone to do PvP, which some people hate, 7 times before they do that? That's a bit much. If you have a mix of poetics and lore gear, and a 210 weapon from seals, you're fine. Not everyone does Alexander or PvP, nor should we expect them to just to finish the MSQ.

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Basically OP is throwing a fit because either they or "their friend" is stressed out by having to actually heal occasionally (and this has come up in several threads via anecdotes with laughable examples), and the entire game needs to be catered to their idiosyncratic psychological needs, lest they ever have to actually do their job and not just be a DPS with an instant queue.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Does anyone else keep seeing this issue appear?

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Nope! Never have had this issue appear in any capacity, not have I ever chatted with anyone that's had this happen to them, so I'm not entirely sure you're being honest here.

Well if it for spirit bonding the gear yes the gear you wear should be lock to your job and have another slot to equip the gather ect gear which doesn't effect damage output, but that a hole new system so doubtful that will happen.

Perhaps a better way to spritbond is required as well, because it seem battle related content is the fastest way to do it which is part of the problem also.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Basically OP is throwing a fit because either they or "their friend" is stressed out by having to actually heal occasionally (and this has come up in several threads via anecdotes with laughable examples), and the entire game needs to be catered to their idiosyncratic psychological needs, lest they ever have to actually do their job and not just be a DPS with an instant queue.

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You do realize how much HP is lost when a tank doesn't where the proper gear right? It's the whole reason VIT became the main stat of tanks as they added dmg to their main weapons instead of having tanks use STR and VIT because it only caused more unnecessary stress on the healers.

A basic example, any gear lacking VIT=0HP added. So crafting gear does pretty much nothing for tanks. No secondaries, no main attributes, nothing. Now let's take a quick look at proper gear i150 left side gear. We'll do NQ and HQ, so we got, 56/62, 35/38, 35/38, 26/29, 38/38 and 56/62. So with just left side that is about 3.2k +HP and 3.4k +HP. But that's not all, it's not just HP, it's also Defense and magic Defense.

If a person is wearing craft gear on their left side.

Just focus on HQ for this one, but the tank gear has 300/214/214/186/214/300 compared to 46/86/86/86/120/120.

So you gotta consider this.

If a tank has a base HP of 5k using crafting gear giving them a total of 544 physical defense compared to a tank using fell left HQ gear would be 8.4k HP and 1428 physical defense.

You aren't just going in with less HP, but less defense, you can't look at that and say OP is being unfair or crying about needing to heal more,it's not about healing more it's about how nearly impossible it is to keep someone alive in that situation because a fully geared DPS wearing the proper gear in that instance would be able to tank better than a tank wearing the wrong gear.

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Originally Posted by Airget

You do realize how much HP is lost when a tank doesn't where the proper gear right? It's the whole reason VIT became the main stat of tanks as they added dmg to their main weapons instead of having tanks use STR and VIT because it only caused more unnecessary stress on the healers.

A basic example, any gear lacking VIT=0HP added. So crafting gear does pretty much nothing for tanks. No secondaries, no main attributes, nothing. Now let's take a quick look at proper gear i150 left side gear. We'll do NQ and HQ, so we got, 56/62, 35/38, 35/38, 26/29, 38/38 and 56/62. So with just left side that is about 3.2k +HP and 3.4k +HP. But that's not all, it's not just HP, it's also Defense and magic Defense.

If a person is wearing craft gear on their left side.

Just focus on HQ for this one, but the tank gear has 300/214/214/186/214/300 compared to 46/86/86/86/120/120.

So you gotta consider this.

If a tank has a base HP of 5k using crafting gear giving them a total of 544 physical defense compared to a tank using fell left HQ gear would be 8.4k HP and 1428 physical defense.

You aren't just going in with less HP, but less defense, you can't look at that and say OP is being unfair or crying about needing to heal more,it's not about healing more it's about how nearly impossible it is to keep someone alive in that situation because a fully geared DPS wearing the proper gear in that instance would be able to tank better than a tank wearing the wrong gear.

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Dude, if someone is wearing crafting gear, kick them. Who cares? They can't do their job. OP has complained about everything from having a weapon even 1 ilvl under the average required for the dungeon, to having a couple lower level accessories, to plenty of other perfectly acceptable situations. There's being so poorly geared you're not being able to do your job and then there's annoying the anal retentive busybodies who can't figure out other players don't exist just to do whatever they want them to. Only the former is worth caring about, yet OP mostly falls into the category of said busybodies and tries to use a couple of rather extreme and undoubtedly rare examples to justify their entire litany of mostly trivial complaints.

With 1 week to go, here is a reminder on this issue